View Full Version : A level results
"expected to top 97%"...
are they becomming worthless? the argument that they are easier than they used to be doesnt hold any water for me as the two can't be compared. you can't ask the same set of questions....
so am i doing todays swots a disservice by suggesting they're worthless? they've worked and studied (I shan't use the word hard) to achieve the right results and have been rewarded with a pass and the potential of earning higher salaries....
so tell me, .orgasm members, whats the dealio?....
Maybe the pass rate is higher because more of the courses are modular (than in the olden days) and if you get crappy marks on a module you can just retake it so the crappy marks never get used in these statistics.
I dunno, I'm just glad that I don't have to do them again.
lukemillar
14-08-08, 07:43 AM
I don't know. In my experience, no-one has ever asked me what I have got for A-levels, GCSE's or even my degree with regards to employment. Not that they are a waste of time - The skills that you learn whilst studying are more important than the final mark. Except to your mum. Then it's important!
gettin2dizzy
14-08-08, 08:03 AM
The top universities expect more and more every year though. Regardless of having 4 As, they'll want a string of 'other' qualifications, work experience and skills. Kids are expected to do far too much nowadays; mostly unbeneficial time-wasting activities to 'tick boxes'. Let them go out and live their lives, then they'll grow up in to the responsible adults sadly lacking from society.
Having 3 As in worthless subjects helps no one.
gettin2dizzy
14-08-08, 08:07 AM
I don't know. In my experience, no-one has ever asked me what I have got for A-levels, GCSE's or even my degree with regards to employment. Not that they are a waste of time - The skills that you learn whilst studying are more important than the final mark. Except to your mum. Then it's important!
When I applied for loads of graduate jobs last year they had automated A-level and GCSE screening. Rolls Royce rejected my application as I hadn't the required A-level grade in Maths - regardless of the fact I had a first in the maths module of my Engineering Degree (from a decent Uni too I'll have you know ;)). It's common practice for these companies, as they need to reduce the number of applications somehow. I myself applied for over 60 jobs, as that's just expected.
I'd say A-levels have never been more crucial.
Having 3 As in worthless subjects helps no one.
Thing is most of those worhtless A's go on to become worthless degrees in yak hair plattinf or something.
The news was saying less and less peeps are taking science at Aleval and degree . I would imagine its the same for other dificult subjects. As Students take the asy options of media studies etc.
I think in recent times degrees have become worh less than of old. Its become the next step so to speak, GCSE then A level then Deg.
I remember when i done my A level ecconomics our teacher gace us a past paper from 87, ( i sat A levels in 97) and the questions were nails in comparison to our practice papers frm the previous couple of years.
I do believe exams have got eaiser, people dont just kep on getting cleverer year on year!!
When I applied for loads of graduate jobs last year they had automated A-level and GCSE screening. Rolls Royce rejected my application as I hadn't the required A-level grade in Maths - regardless of the fact I had a first in the maths module of my Engineering Degree (from a decent Uni too I'll have you know ;)). It's common practice for these companies, as they need to reduce the number of applications somehow. I myself applied for over 60 jobs, as that's just expected.
I'd say A-levels have never been more crucial.
Would you say now the way to stand out from the crowd in after degree employment is to have a Masters?? My mate reckoned that was the case to get the goos accountancy jobs.
All the post grad jobs he looked at were paying a pittance (arround 20K)
timwilky
14-08-08, 08:16 AM
It is not just A levels that are dumbed down. GCSE is no comparison to the O level. Many degrees are worthless and even the "traditional" ones have again been dumbed down.
I have my own thoughts on why this is the case. Most faults lie at the door of government using a continuing education system to remove a generation from the unemployed register. Therefore they look good. More educated workforce, less unemployed, but qualified to do nothing.
I feel sorry for the young who are forced into this system. They don't tell the 16 yr old wanting to do A levels in sports science and tourism that they are going to end up on reception and toilet cleaning at the local sports centre.
Would you say now the way to stand out from the crowd in after degree employment is to have a Masters?? My mate reckoned that was the case to get the goos accountancy jobs.
Nah, relevant work experience counts for much more than a silly M instaead of B. However, having a masters can be helpful in other ways e.g. getting chartered status.
All the post grad jobs he looked at were paying a pittance (arround 20K)
That sounds normal/reasonable. Prob wouldn't be on that amount for long though. Would be v short-sighted to choose your career/job on initial salary, it's the progression and prospects that really matter.
missyburd
14-08-08, 08:28 AM
Thing is most of those worhtless A's go on to become worthless degrees in yak hair plattinf or something.
The news was saying less and less peeps are taking science at Aleval and degree . I would imagine its the same for other dificult subjects. As Students take the asy options of media studies etc.
yak hair platting lol! Bet that's damn useful in certain countries :p
A-Levels are getting beyond a joke. Some of the subjects students have the option of taking could be learnt in a month, let alone 2 years :-?
I fluffed mine up big style (mainly because I spent far too much time actually travelling to school than studying :rolleyes:) and I thought I'd thrown away most chances of studying for a half decent degree. And yet despite my grades being rubbish I got a place without having to go through that Clearing business. I think the fact that I had attempted Biology, Physics, Maths and Chemistry (Physics dropped at AS) was enough and they were passes after all. And maybe they want more people doing BSc's #shrug#
Then again it might just have been my personal statement that swayed them, reckon I must be able to sell mesen pretty well :lol:
Flamin_Squirrel
14-08-08, 08:30 AM
Yes they are getting easier, just listen to what the Universities are saying - students needing remedial teaching, basics they should have learnt at school before they can start the degree course.
Good example for how much things have been dumbed down, is by looking at the maths sylabus. Calculus, an extremely important tool for many science degrees, used to be taught at GCSE level. I believe it now no longer appears in some A-level exams - an absolutely appaling state of affairs.
gettin2dizzy
14-08-08, 08:35 AM
Would you say now the way to stand out from the crowd in after degree employment is to have a Masters?? My mate reckoned that was the case to get the goos accountancy jobs.
I'm doing my Masters because that's the minimum accepted by my company...
And yeah, the starting salary is ridiculous. But we live in a world now where the executives are earning over 10 times the amount of the starting salary. That's a trend I'd like to see end.
It is not just A levels that are dumbed down. GCSE is no comparison to the O level. Many degrees are worthless and even the "traditional" ones have again been dumbed down.
I have my own thoughts on why this is the case. Most faults lie at the door of government using a continuing education system to remove a generation from the unemployed register. Therefore they look good. More educated workforce, less unemployed, but qualified to do nothing.
I feel sorry for the young who are forced into this system. They don't tell the 16 yr old wanting to do A levels in sports science and tourism that they are going to end up on reception and toilet cleaning at the local sports centre.
Traditional in what respect? The University you go to has as much of a difference as the course itself.
When I did my course at Uni, in my first year I was in all day, every day. A guy on an identical course at a Poly nearby was in for 4 hours a week. Both of us were earning the same degree, arguably, apparently to the 'same' standard. The difference in the work was like night and day.
I'd argue that the standard expected continues to rise for the best degrees in the best Unis to counteract this notion as the standard deteriorates elsewhere.
How being in Uni 2 hours a week, with a single exam after 3 years can 'qualify' you to do anything I don't know. But why bother with the more difficult degrees when you can get the same certification on an easy course, and the job prospects barely differ. Science students get paid pitiful salaries with little prospects only to be 'managed' by halfwits with media studies degrees on double their salaries.
missyburd
14-08-08, 08:37 AM
How being in Uni 2 hours a week, with a single exam after 3 years can 'qualify' you to do anything I don't know. But why bother with the more difficult degrees when you can get the same certification on an easy course, and the job prospects barely differ. Science students get paid pitiful salaries with little prospects only to be 'managed' by halfwits with media studies degrees on double their salaries.
Hear hear, not something I'm looking forward to :( So maybe I'm thinking I'll get more R E S P E C T but then that's not very likely either :rolleyes:
gettin2dizzy
14-08-08, 08:40 AM
Yes they are getting easier, just listen to what the Universities are saying - students needing remedial teaching basics they should have learnt at school before they can start the degree course.
But ONLY on the worthless degrees. On any degree worth having you need to have this knowledge from day one.
That sounds normal/reasonable. Prob wouldn't be on that amount for long though. Would be v short-sighted to choose your career/job on initial salary, it's the progression and prospects that really matter.
reasonable, wouldent get out of bed for that!!!
but yeah the wages would go up a bit then hit a lull for years untill promotion came about. he reckoned even in 5-10 years it wouldent be much more than 30K for some degree jobs.
. And yet despite my grades being rubbish I got a place without having to go through that Clearing business. I think the fact that I had attempted Biology, Physics, Maths and Chemistry (Physics dropped at AS) was enough and they were passes after all.
I rmemmber doing clearing. Even though i was doing my A levels i had started applying for the Trade i am in the Army. Come the results time i had secured a place so couldent really care about my results as did not need them.
Well opened them and got C, C, E . which actually gave me more points than most of my mates who had revised propely and needed good grades.
So for a laugh pgoned up Clearing and got a few offers. I actually concidered going to Uni to do Ecconomics instead of Joining up . I wonder how things would have panned out.
gettin2dizzy
14-08-08, 08:52 AM
reasonable, wouldent get out of bed for that!!!
but yeah the wages would go up a bit then hit a lull for years untill promotion came about. he reckoned even in 5-10 years it wouldent be much more than 30K for some degree jobs.
:lol:
You'd be appalled in that case then
reasonable, wouldent get out of bed for that!!!
but yeah the wages would go up a bit then hit a lull for years untill promotion came about. he reckoned even in 5-10 years it wouldent be much more than 30K for some degree jobs.
That doesn't sound unrealistic for 5 years.
knowing how hard my girlfriend has worked for her ASs I'd hardly call them worthless. It's quite demoralizing for a of of people who have worked hard to achieve their results to then hear people and the media say that they're easier, worthless or whatever.
Biker Biggles
14-08-08, 09:16 AM
Not sure if these have got easier or not as the whole system has changed so much as to make comparison very hard.What has changed is the numbers of students coming out with bits of paper that say "degree" or whatever qualification,and that ultimately devalues the qualification.Rightly or wrongly it used to be the case that only the top 5% got A levels and 2% got degrees and they were the elite.Now with policy saying 50% should go to university that level of education is no longer the elite level,but the norm.Its status and remuneration will suffer accordingly.
knowing how hard my girlfriend has worked for her ASs I'd hardly call them worthless. It's quite demoralizing for a of of people who have worked hard to achieve their results to then hear people and the media say that they're easier, worthless or whatever.
Yes tre but that said i think AS levels were bought in to make the Aleval eaiser!! as in a half way point you can continue o the whole full A leval or stop and get half a qual. apposed to studdying for 2 years for one qual.
Wifey used to teach 3rd year undergrads at Exeter University. Many couldn't spell, had a poor grasp of sentence structure, and even less idea on how to write an essay. I used to read these offerings, they were so funny. One student kept putting semi-colons in his work: he explained that he didn't understand correct usage, so guessed that if he put one in every third sentence it would be about right. It was so bad that Anne held a brief course (for which she wan't paid) on written English and spelling. How 3rd year undergrads got so far with nobody having done anything about it defeats me.
I know standards havent helped any over the years but having a degree these days doesnt guarantee you a job as it used to it just puts you on the same platform as everyone else going for a job.
So not only are graduate jobs less well paid then they were you have the whole student loans to repay as well!
maybe C and D etc are easier to get. A grades across 3 4 or 5 subjects must still be an incedible amount of work and knowledge to retain.
maybe C and D etc are easier to get. A grades across 3 4 or 5 subjects must still be an incedible amount of work and knowledge to retain.
when I done A-Levels you could only do 3 subjects max, due to the ammount of work required for them.
IMO if now they can do then on that basis alone the standard must have dropped enough to allow them to cope with 5 subjects.
maybe C and D etc are easier to get. A grades across 3 4 or 5 subjects must still be an incedible amount of work and knowledge to retain.
I did A levels in 1979. I can still remember sitting in the exam hall. I didn't do that well, mainly because I didn't work!! C, D and D. Nobody has ever asked me what grades I got, and now 30 years on it's completely irrelevant.
Flamin_Squirrel
14-08-08, 10:52 AM
knowing how hard my girlfriend has worked for her ASs I'd hardly call them worthless. It's quite demoralizing for a of of people who have worked hard to achieve their results to then hear people and the media say that they're easier, worthless or whatever.
Whether or not the subjects are getting easier or not is subjective to a certain extent.
However, what you can say for certain is that the grading is complete bollox. The whole point of grading is so you have an idea of how students perform relative to eachother. 80% of students getting A grades makes a mockery of that. A grades should only be attainable by the very best students.
If your girlfriend is one of those very best students, then it would be in her interests more than anyone elses that the halfwits who scraped 40% and still got an A are stopped from doing so.
Good point Ed, that's the other thing, as soon as I'd done my
Gcses, all the fuss died down, and then out in the real world I realized how irrelevent they are.. Especially foe what I want to do, but even how irrelevemt they were when I got to 6 form. Incidentally, at 6 form I was surrounded by idiots, wasters and slackers (that includes teachers) so then decided to leave!
Jayneflakes
14-08-08, 12:33 PM
I did not do A-Levels, but I have taught on them. I fulfilled my Degree criteria by having worked in the area I intended to study for some time. I worked in conservation and graduated in 1998 with a degree in Environmental Science. The fact that I went in as a mature student also helped.
I was recently working on AS and A2 Physics and was putting the kids through practical exams. The experiments were not so hard, but the maths required for the calculations was rather difficult.
Sadly with the EMA kids are paid to be in school once they get to leaving age, so they have to pick so many hours of study which includes academic courses for which some simply cannot do the work required, so levels of drop out are quite high to. Remember this folks when the figures come out.
Coincidentally, I noticed a young lady offering O and A levels on a business card in a telephone box, when I visited London last. I was shocked that teachers have to advertise in such a way in the capital...:smt103
Biker Biggles
14-08-08, 01:20 PM
Not sure the curriculum offered on those phone box ads has much academic rigor.Just O&A was it?;)
Coincidentally, I noticed a young lady offering O and A levels on a business card in a telephone box, when I visited London last. I was shocked that teachers have to advertise in such a way in the capital...:smt103
So you rang her then ;)
lukemillar
14-08-08, 11:58 PM
Science students get paid pitiful salaries with little prospects only to be 'managed' by halfwits with media studies degrees on double their salaries.
See, this is a typical response from someone with a science/maths/engineering background. Can't see the wood from the trees (which is somewhat ironic given their increased intelligence based on having completed a 'proper' degree) :rolleyes:
gettin2dizzy
15-08-08, 12:15 AM
See, this is a typical response from someone with a science/maths/engineering background. Can't see the wood from the trees (which is somewhat ironic given their increased intelligence based on having completed a 'proper' degree) :rolleyes:
Very stereotypical. But why can't i see the wood, so to speak? ;)
lukemillar
15-08-08, 12:30 AM
Very stereotypical. But why can't i see the wood, so to speak? ;)
One common misconception of degree's (in my opinion ;)) is that their purpose is to get you a job. This is incorrect. Yes, is is a common progression from finishing a degree is into work (though many move on to Masters, pHD etc), but the actual purpose is to further your knowledge and understanding in that subject/field. So from that point of view, no degree is 'worthless'.
Since you are viewing a degree as your ticket into the working world, (and by using 'yoghurt weaving' degree rational), then the smart money would surely be on taking a halfwitt media studies degree and getting a job being paid twice as much to manage those losers who spent their 3/4 years studying science! ;)
Flamin_Squirrel
15-08-08, 07:45 AM
...but the actual purpose is to further your knowledge and understanding in that subject/field. So from that point of view, no degree is 'worthless'.
Although it could be argued that some degrees don't even do that.
lukemillar
15-08-08, 07:52 AM
Although it could be argued that some degrees don't even do that.
But is that the fault of the degree or the attitude of the student doing it? I'm pretty sure universities are happy to lower entry standards to get bums on seats as it were (except maybe the more elite places) as there is a financial incentive to keep the numbers up. If someone decides to spend their 3 years p!ssing it up against the wall, then it's not really the degree that failed them (unless you count letting them on the course in the first place)
I have no idea. As far as I'm concerned, anyone that leaves school with any grade A level have done a damn site better than I ever did.
I left with no qualifications worthy of a mention.
I do think the populous is getting more clever though. The divide between the clever and the thick (me) is getting bigger also. It seems you either excel at school or you don't do well at all. The middle ground seems to be vanishing.
I remember when at school I was in a class that was split between CSE and O level. The teacher was primarily an O level teacher. He just didn't have the patience or the will to bother with us CSE members of the class. As a consequence the whole class did pitiful come exams time. How well pupils/students do at school can be massively influenced by the person teaching. Maybe we now have a better standard of A level teachers?
Ceri JC
15-08-08, 09:19 AM
Call me old fashioned, but I think you should have linear (rather than modular) exams, stick all the results in order from highest to lowest, top 8% get As, next 12% get Bs and so on. This way there is no scope for accusations of easier/harder exams and questions than other years and the grade is a fairly true indication of the best students. Regardless of the exam's difficulty, you know that if they got an 'A' they are one of the best. Even if the exam is ludicrously hard and the top students only get 70%, this system still works. So long as it's not so simple that more than the top '8%' don't get 100% it's fool proof.
My other bugbear is coursework. Makes sense in subject like art or DT where you can't spend 30 hours on something in an exam, but for English/Maths it has no place IMO. Coursework is also supposed to be a contributory factor to girls doing better than boys (girls are better at working at a consistent low level all year round, boys are better at a last minute full on cram). If universities whose lecturers are supposed to be the best specialists in this one field and abrest of publications aren't able to spot plaigarism (which they aren't in many cases) there is no chance schools and the associated exam boards will spot most of it. The number of kids who cheated at coursework in school was ludicrous and with no requirement of a Viva, they don't even need to be able to understand the work their elder brother has done for them.
My nephew got his reults yesterday. He got 3 Bs. He feels that he failed because he didn't get As - he thinks that people will consider Bs as second class and so is thinking of doing resits.
Have we really got to this level...
Rhiwbina_Squirrel
15-08-08, 01:45 PM
My nephew got his reults yesterday. He got 3 Bs. He feels that he failed because he didn't get As - he thinks that people will consider Bs as second class and so is thinking of doing resits.
Have we really got to this level...
A lot of my mates seem to think this. It's an A or nothing in their minds.
Alex
Flamin_Squirrel
15-08-08, 01:57 PM
My nephew got his reults yesterday. He got 3 Bs. He feels that he failed because he didn't get As - he thinks that people will consider Bs as second class and so is thinking of doing resits.
Have we really got to this level...
Sad isn't it. Succesive governments meddling with standardised testing have not only undermined those with genuine academic ability, but made those who don't have such ability feel like failures.
If universities whose lecturers are supposed to be the best specialists in this one field and abrest of publications aren't able to spot plaigarism (which they aren't in many cases) there is no chance schools and the associated exam boards will spot most of it
I worked as a science teacher as part of an outreach programme between school and university. Plagiarised work was blindingly obvious - a lot of students copied and pasted from the net, so the phraseology of 'their work' was inconsistent all the way through. Also pupils would visit the same sites so i'd see the same statements recurring. The teachers were so bogged down with marking the coursework, the volume and also ensuring that pupils made the targets, it was generally ignored. I don't think that its because they don't spot it.
mary
A-Levels are getting beyond a joke. Some of the subjects students have the option of taking could be learnt in a month, let alone 2 years :-?
Not even a month - best example is General Studies. It was mandatory in my sixth-form, but I decided that as I was attempting to finish my A-levels in 15 months instead of 2 years that I'd exempt myself. Never went to any of the classes, but sat three exams back-to-back with 100% marks, managing to come out with 574/600 UMS points over 6 exams. Somewhere in the region of 60% of the sixth-form students came out with As.
My nephew got his reults yesterday. He got 3 Bs. He feels that he failed because he didn't get As - he thinks that people will consider Bs as second class and so is thinking of doing resits.
Have we really got to this level...
Yes. Having decided to do A-levels in 15 months as mentioned above, I was 1UMS point short of a Physics grade A and 12UMS points short of a Geography A. The 1 point in physics equated to something stupid like 0.8 marks on the module I did worst on. I subsequently spent the next 6 months attending 5 (mandatory) hours of classes per week, just to resit 2 exams.
On a side-note on the getting harder front, while studying for my first set of AS physics exams I was getting rather stressed due to trying to juggle 2 hard subjects while teaching myself AS-psychology with a very rough home-life at the same time, and my dad couldn't work out why. I was explaining to him that I was struggling with certain things in the course, to which he asked why, since he'd done all the topics that I'd mentioned before years earlier and found them easy. The next day I picked up a practice exam from my teacher and took it home and gave it to him, along with a calculator. Thirty minutes later he admitted defeat having not answered anything, and stopped giving me a hard-time.
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