Drug taking Teacher

[Bluepete]

Ok, this isn't a rant, it's a genuine question to the mighty .org and our collective wisdom.

First, read

This (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1064779_teachers_stag_night_shame) and then this (http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/news/Teacher-stage-night-castle-shame/article-295651-detail/article.html)

This guy is a teacher at my kids primary school.

Does the .org think a drug taking teacher with convictions for assault and criminal damage should keep his job?

Personally, I don't want him anywhere near my kids. I know he won't be making them into drug users, nor will he behave like he did that night in front of them. To me, it's a matter of trust, which he has broken.

Pete

[SoulKiss]

Ok so I only skimmed it but I see no mention of drugs (I did use my browsers "find" function and couldn't find the word "drug" in either article) - he was drunk on a stag-night where he was the Best Man

Also the second link is hardly a good advertisment - seems he was on a "Stage-Night"

Teacher in stage night castle shame.

No real news here at all.

An no, no reason for him not to be a teacher - it all happened during his "private" life.

[hovis]

He also received a caution for possession of cocaine.

[SoulKiss]

He also received a caution for possession of cocaine.

Ok as said I skimmed and missed that line (tho the Cops obviously didn't).

If he only got cautioned, surely it was for a minuscule amount?

I used to have a BIG issue with drug-takers, but then I got to know a few people who when I discovered they partook of the odd recreational drug I had to consider whether something that never affected me they have VERY rarely, if ever, been on anything around me, should have me distance myself from them.

Maybe its living in London, but TBH I would be surprised if there WASN'T anything "a little special" going round at an occasion like a Stag Night....

[pete m]

i spose hes gonna be legless chopping out lines for the five yr olds at the next end ot term party ....is that the prob ? :confused:

[Quedos]

the trust issue that has be broken could apply to so many and it couldn't be enforced fairly.
it was in his private life and not during the work day - he has been tried and punished why punish him again.
could we sack all those in the public eye who speed excessively in case they set a bad example or in the case of here sack the youthworkers who work with intensive supported youths becuase they are on methadone - despite the good work they do?

[Speedy Claire]

I agree with you Pete and wouldn`t want him teaching my kids either. Don`t know if its cos i`m a bit old fashioned when it comes to things like this but in my opinion kids need a good role model and he should be setting an example. If I were to be convicted for something like that and for possession of cocaine i`d lose my job straight away.

[the_lone_wolf]

sounds like he drank too much and acted like a tw*t - lots of people have done the same, if he had a string of convitions for drunken behaviour or assault then perhaps i'd be more inclined to distrust the guy but i'd say it seems like an isolated case which, if he has any sense, won't be repeated...

a technicality, but i didn't see where he was a "drug taking" teacher, as opposed to a teacher with a convition for possession of cocaine, just because he had it on his person doesn't mean he was the one taking it...

[SoulKiss]

Well I have to say that I think that its probably peoples interactions with drug-users that colours their views on this, but I know at least one person who dabbles in the odd Class-A drug what I would, if he wasn't using the drug at the time, (so about 99.9% of the time) trust with my life.

However if my interaction was dealing with the aftermath of drug-related crime etc, I guess that I would have a different view.

[Biker Biggles]

Interesting how times have changed.I would lose my job if this happened to me,but I dont see why anyone should.You should lose your job for gross misconduct AT WORK,or incompetance or any of the other reasons employers find you to be useless.
What happens in your private life should be none of the employers business as long as you still turn up to work and are good at what you do.I strongly object to the creeping culture of ownership currently being rolled out by employers.I sell my labour to my employer,not my soul,but these days they want to know what I get up to on my days off as well.

[600+]

This is a difficult one Pedro!! I would be inklined to agree with BIker Biggles on this one though I completely understand your point of view. Trust is a very difficult thing to gain and very easy to lose.......the question though for me is would you trust a law enforcement officer when you know that they would have broken the law at some point in their lifes?

At the end of the day these are your kids and you have every right to not want this person teaching them. I don't think he should lose his job though, yet this gives you (and anyone else) the option to move them to a different school? or for him to go somewhere else?

[Demonz]

Seems like pretty normal behaviour in todays world. Sadly.

[600+]

Seems like pretty normal behaviour in todays world. Sadly.

sadly true! just heard on the radio that the Red Cross is giving lessons in schools on how to deal with knife wounds???!!! Next thing will be how to dismantle a gun

[littleperson]

Ok, this isn't a rant, it's a genuine question to the mighty .org and our collective wisdom.

First, read

This (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1064779_teachers_stag_night_shame) and then this (http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/news/Teacher-stage-night-castle-shame/article-295651-detail/article.html)

This guy is a teacher at my kids primary school.

Does the .org think a drug taking teacher with convictions for assault and criminal damage should keep his job?

Personally, I don't want him anywhere near my kids. I know he won't be making them into drug users, nor will he behave like he did that night in front of them. To me, it's a matter of trust, which he has broken.

Pete

For many on a stag night this would be laughed off and bragged about
Those in a profession that are in the public domain they sit on a set of balance scales. Constant dilemas as to whether they should do something in their private life that could have reprecussions in their public life. You go out of your way to ensure your not spotted and that includes your weekly shop!!!!!

You may have gathered that I too work in this profession and face this dilema on many a night out or shopping trip!!!!

Go and speak to the head of the school. Express your concerns to ensure your views are known. The more that do the better cos no doubt its not just you. Worst case scenario you consider moving your children but would this aid their education.

[rob13]

If this guy is in a position of public responsibility, then unfortunately everything he does is under scrutiny. If it was a lecturer, perhaps a different matter, but this guy is a teacher of children and in that respect I would regard him with the same position of responsibility as a Police Officer.

[dissuade]

if he is a teacher, then it doesn't matter whether it is his private life or his work life. in his actions, he should always represent the profession appropriately, whether he is on duty or not. in taking a profession such as teaching, you take on a duty of representing the profession at all time. it is a shame that there isn't a stricter governing body for the professionalism of teachers, such as the gdc for dentists or the gmc for doctors. at the end of the day, whilst teachers are unlikely do do direct damage by physical harm (or one would hope), they do however heavily influence future generations. I personally would not want someone with no idea of responsibility teaching my children.

[SoulKiss]

if he is a teacher, then it doesn't matter whether it is his private life or his work life. in his actions, he should always represent the profession appropriately, whether he is on duty or not. in taking a profession such as teaching, you take on a duty of representing the profession at all time. it is a shame that there isn't a stricter governing body for the professionalism of teachers, such as the gdc for dentists or the gmc for doctors. at the end of the day, whilst teachers are unlikely do do direct damage by physical harm (or one would hope), they do however heavily influence future generations. I personally would not want someone with no idea of responsibility teaching my children.

So, be a teacher and you have to be an angel for the rest of your life

******** to that.

[Bluepete]

This is why I like this forum. The variety of people and opinions is sooo diverse! Some good points raised for and against the man and his job. Some I hadnn't considered.

Diss, there is the General Teaching Council who oversee the teaching profession in the same way your GDC does.

Thanks so far,

Pete

[neio79]

So, be a teacher and you have to be an angel for the rest of your life

******** to that.
Agreed, Is he not alowed to live a life and do what is in his prsonal life what he feels free.

He may have been charged with assault but seing as you can get charged with assault for pushing someone these days read what you will into that.

Persoanlly unless his teaching standards were below par or he started slapping and gicing the kids smack i cant see any reason for him not to carry on.

[Messie]

if he is a teacher, then it doesn't matter whether it is his private life or his work life. in his actions, he should always represent the profession appropriately, whether he is on duty or not. in taking a profession such as teaching, you take on a duty of representing the profession at all time. it is a shame that there isn't a stricter governing body for the professionalism of teachers, such as the gdc for dentists or the gmc for doctors. at the end of the day, whilst teachers are unlikely do do direct damage by physical harm (or one would hope), they do however heavily influence future generations. I personally would not want someone with no idea of responsibility teaching my children.

There is. It's called the General Teaching Council. Without registration with this body you cannot teach in a government funded school (not sure about private schools). They have the power to regulate the profession and judge whether someone is fit to teach if a complaint or charge is made against them. They can withdraw someone's license to teach

Other than this all I can say, as a teacher, is 'Oh dear :rolleyes:'

[shonadoll]

Why wasn't he charged with cocaine posession?

I'm inclined to lean towards the he's done his penance side of things, everyone can make mistakes, but I know what you mean about feeling uneasy about it. I'd be much more concerned if he were teaching secondary school kids who were aware of his conviction and what happened, in fact I'd be complaining if he was teaching them.

[shonadoll]

the trust issue that has be broken could apply to so many and it couldn't be enforced fairly.
it was in his private life and not during the work day - he has been tried and punished why punish him again.
could we sack all those in the public eye who speed excessively in case they set a bad example or in the case of here sack the youthworkers who work with intensive supported youths becuase they are on methadone - despite the good work they do?

That works both ways though - if a teacher was into child porn, in his private life, I'd want him sacked and charged.

I don't think there's an absolute in these sorts of cases, but I do know as a parent ones' feelings don't always fall into the right/wrong category.

[Bluepete]

Why wasn't he charged with cocaine posession?

'Cos the way the system works. The two counts of damage and one of assault "score" together and as three seperate offences, took him past the threshold for charging.

The possession of cocaine is a seperate issue and he was eligable for a caution as he had no prior, similar convictions.

Pete

[wow]

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned this. Both papers are local papers, do you believe everything that's written in them? I certainly don't and then the tone. The first article informs us that mr macdonald appeared in the MEN (that's manchester evening news to you and me) after meeting his fiancee on the internet (so why are you telling us this??) 'slammed' the teacher's behaviour. The staffordshire article is better. I still have to meet the first person who believes everything they read in their local rag. They get things wrong all the time!

[Bluepete]

Wow, It's all true. Mrs BP is a teacher in the same school and it's true.

[Frank]

Agreed, Is he not alowed to live a life and do what is in his prsonal life what he feels free.

He may have been charged with assault but seing as you can get charged with assault for pushing someone these days read what you will into that.

Persoanlly unless his teaching standards were below par or he started slapping and gicing the kids smack i cant see any reason for him not to carry on.
+ 1

[dissuade]

There is. It's called the General Teaching Council.

Then they should decide whether they see this person as fit to carry out this profession after a thorough investigation. Obviously, parents will, and should, have an opinion on this too.

I am not saying those who choose to carry out a profession that puts them in the public eye should act as angels all of the time, god knows I don't, but these people need to demonstrate a certain amount of mental maturity that comes with accepting such a position of responsibility. Having coke in your back pocket whilst hanging out of a window drunk off your face is not.

[Messie]

Then they should decide whether they see this person as fit to carry out this profession after a thorough investigation. Obviously, parents will, and should, have an opinion on this too.

I am not saying those who choose to carry out a profession that puts them in the public eye should act as angels all of the time, god knows I don't, but these people need to demonstrate a certain amount of mental maturity that comes with accepting such a position of responsibility. Having coke in your back pocket whilst hanging out of a window drunk off your face is not.

It is up to them to consider someone's fitness to teach in the light of given circumstances. They are not a court of any description and do not try someone for a criminal offence. If a teacher if convicted by a court the GTC may then consider whether they should remain licenced to teach.

In my experience if all teachers had to be squeeky clean in terms of sobriety even at the week ends or in holiday time, we would have very few teachers left. That is not the same as saying they shouldn't be absolutely sober whilst in charge of children - of course they should!

[MiniMatt]

I am not a parent, as such my opinion may be invalid, or if you like it could be more valid as it's not coloured by the natural emotions attached to that role.

Playing devil's advocate, one could argue - who do you want teaching your kids (if not directly but indirectly) the dangers of drink and drugs - someone who's fallen foul of temptation and acted like a tit, been punished publicly for their actions and knows first hand just how dangerous they are; or someone who just spouts "drugs are bad, mmmkay?". Countless education programs nowadays haul teenage mums, reformed junkies and the like in front of school kids to tell them "this is what will happen if you be a tit" - better still surely to have a teacher, one who knows the kids, and one who the kids know and trust (to the extent that you do trust your teacher) who can speak with authority on the subject throughout the term? I remember a geography teacher known universally as "Polo" - because he was constantly seen sucking catering crates worth of polo mints - he knew his nickname, and he mentioned off the cuff whenever he overheard this "insult" that the reason he was always on the polos was because he was addicted to nictotine and needed something to quench the desire during lessons - it wasn't a formal "lesson" as such, just a reminder to kids that smoking has far reaching effects that aren't normally seen by kids, the actual effects of addiction. Ok, so I still ended up a smoker but I certainly don't think my personal nicotine addiction was encouraged by my teacher, quite the opposite - he gave a depiction of smoking beyond the usual "smoking's bad, mmmkay" that those who have never been there never could. I fancy if he kept one kid from smoking then his "dirty little secret" was beneficial to the next generation.

Trust. Do you trust this teacher not to turn up to work smacked out of his tree? Do you trust this teacher not to turn up to work drunk? Do you trust this teacher to educate your kids not just in maths/science/english/history but to impart "on the side" valuable life education?

Assuming teacher concerned (and this is a big assumption) is committed to his role, is good at his job, and that this is more of a one off "I got smashed and I acted a tit", then I'd say your kids will benefit from his expertise and experience. We should be teaching our kids to question what they're told, that's the basis of independent thinking and reasoning - if we simply tell them "drink and drugs are bad, don't do them" then they'll respect that no more than a rational adult will.

[Messie]

Well said MiniMatt

[Wayluya]

I would want to know...........is he any good as a teacher?

[Biker Biggles]

I too would want to know if he was a good teacher and if he was nt any good Id want him got rid of for that reason,not because he got w&nkered at a stag night and made a c0ck of himself.
I just dont buy this "professional" lifestyle stuff.It reminds me of the old comedy sketch----"Im middle class and I look down on him because he's working class".Half the world and his brother are "professionals" now,mainly so they can inflate their own egos and so employers can exert more power than they ought.

[timwilky]

I have to say that anyone who can get themselves into the sort of state reported is unfit to be in locum parentis. I certainly would not trust such a person with the care of my grandchildren.

Yes, most of us drink, some will take recreational drugs and claim it does not harm us or prevent us from being responsible individuals. However, when done to the excess reported, it demonstrates an ability and acceptance to cross that invisible line. Who is to say that this guys next mistake might not happen at work.

sounds to me he needs to work in higher education. After all most of my tutors were either alcoholics or drug abusers and normally both.

[Bibio]

well i'm not going to be liked for the this. but i dont care.. hate me all you like.. there is a que anyway.

i can see who the "volvo" drivers are. get off your morel high ground.

if the bloke is a good teacher and good with the kids. surly thats all that matters.

is it a case of, he was in the papers and you have to deal with "the shame of it" "i wouldent let him teach my kids " " see we have a druggie as a teacher at the school"

and yes i have kids and yes they are at school... and yes i have "morals" but i'm not a slave to "the ideal"

if i meet a person who tells me they are a teacher i shake there hand .. why? because they have to deel with todays kids .. who are the nastiest most arrogent ppl there are.

and before you say "but my angels" forget it...

if on the other hand his social life was merging with his professional life then "sack the cu*t"

i know what its like to be in the papers and blasted for nothing coz the journalists who have to fill gaps... and before you ask yes it was drug related .. in fact i'll tell you. i moved into my house and the drug squad raided my house and found me in posession of a 16th of canabis resin i had tucked away "for the stresfull parts in life and parties" all because of small minded induviduals who i calss as "nobby no maters" were curious as to why i have so many friends... but because i was "in the papers" they all thaught i was a junkie (who i hate with a vengance - junkies that is) now that they have got to know me they now realise why i have so many friends.

so before you go ruining someones life.. try putting the shoe on the other foot.

after all it could just as easily be you in the papers...

[BBadger]

i not totaly adverse as my chem teacher is an ex heroin addict with a crim record.
apart from being imcompitent and useless at teaching shes alright, just not on the same level as everyone else in the world.

[fat_brstd]

I work so i can do what i want when im not at work. As long as what i do whilst out of work has no effect on my job then i dont see the problem. I go out on the lash on a friday night and have even taken drugs on the odd occasion. This does not and has not affected my work, ever and its none of works buisness either.

He got ****ed, was a tw4t and got done for it. What i think is important is that he pleaded guilty, he didnt try to hide away he fessed up and said ok ive done it whats the punishment, ill take it and hopefully hes learnt his leason. Curtainly assult is not cool but with a 75 pound fine, he obviously didnt do the guy much harm, he was probably too smashed to do anything major anyway. The damage was irresponsible but these things happen when you have a bloody stag do. Who thought it would be good idea to let a bunch of guys get smashed and then run arround a listed building. You take these things on you need to know the risks and its guarantied to happen eventually.

If the bloke had a string of convictions and was a regular problem then fine make him loose his job but i dont see how this incident affects his abilty to teach kids.

[Ed]

I don't think that this should make any difference Pete. The conviction for assault does not mean that children in his care are at risk. The conviction for criminal damage does not mean that he is likely to start smashing up the classroom. The drugs make me slightly uneasy, I have never done drugs, never even been tempted, and I have an absolutist view - I don't agree with Soulkiss here. Possession must surely indicate a more accepting approach to drugs. There is a possibility that he would suggest that taking drugs is OK and not as 'bad' as is made out.

On balance I'd go see the headteacher and seek reassurances that the teacher concerned will be monitored closely. I don't think I'd remove my daughter from this teacher's class though, I daresay that the bloke has learned his lesson.

[Stu]

keep his job?

...I don't want him anywhere near my kids.
Well he would need to lose his career, not his job. Otherwise it's just NIMBYism.

Personally, if he's an OK teacer ;) I hope he keeps his career. There but for the grace of god & all that.

And he was not at all at risk of being held in loco parentis at the time of his escapade.

[Rog]

The drugs make me slightly uneasy, I have never done drugs, never even been tempted, and I have an absolutist view - I don't agree with Soulkiss here. Possession must surely indicate a more accepting approach to drugs. There is a possibility that he would suggest that taking drugs is OK and not as 'bad' as is made out.

I am sure that there are plenty of teachers out there that hold views which I wouldnt want teaching to my children, but I am not about to sit down and grill every teacher over the political and social views for teaching my children. Put simple this wouldnt be news if the guy wasnt a primary school teacher. Who here could say that they have never got drunk to the point of having a patchy memory only to hear in horror what you got upto the next day in disbelief.

I had a french teacher who we all new smoked pot, he used to smoke rollies in the playground too and dressed like a punk with a hippie attitude. Why do I remember him, because he was one fo the best teachers I ever had. Woudl I let him teach my kids if he was around today, in an instant. I supose that what I am trying ot get at here is that if his ability to teach is not effected by his off duty behaviour and that behaviour is under control on the whole. The fact that he may do the odd line on special occasions or smoke pot at the weekend, I couldnt give a monkies.

We must get away from this attitutude that Class A drugs are taken by bad people and "nare do wells" it simply isnt true.

[yorkie_chris]

sadly true! just heard on the radio that the Red Cross is giving lessons in schools on how to deal with knife wounds???!!! Next thing will be how to dismantle a gun

Whats point of that, to be safe better to know how to fire one.


I'm pretty sure it's none of his employers business what he gets up to, in normal circumstances, but he will have to sign disclosure so they can see his criminal record. Whether they then get to choose arbitrarily what is and isn't acceptable or not I have no idea.

I wouldn't be too fussed, it's not like he was going out for a tea party with Jacko, the Mcanns and Gary glitter now is it?

The problem is, that it's now been in the press, the schools reputation is at risk. Rather than any actual risk to the children, it's nothing more than image which'll probably cost this bloke his job.

[SoulKiss]

I have an absolutist view - I don't agree with Soulkiss here. Possession must surely indicate a more accepting approach to drugs. There is a possibility that he would suggest that taking drugs is OK and not as 'bad' as is made out.

Ed, I dont take and wouldn't encourage anyone to take drugs, in fact apart from the AR, and then the LARP Weekend, I haven't even drunk alcohol, which I guess actually classes me as a binge drinker.

However, if I had done something REALLY stupid on one of those occasions the newpapers would not have taken into account that my annual alcohol consumption is probably less than some peoples weekly amount, it would just be about how drunk I was and what I did.

Also as I said I used to think Drug-taker = not trust-worthy, I guess basing my prejudice on the persona's shown in Trainspotting.

Then as I said I made a good friend who, after some time I discovered has probably taken ANY drug that you care to mention, and still will if he feels like it, but is not actually an addict in that its not a daily/weekly thing.

That changed my view on who/what a drug taker is.

[the_lone_wolf]

There is a possibility that he would suggest that taking drugs is OK and not as 'bad' as is made out.

and as someone with a self confessed absolutist view on the subject and zero experience you're best placed to rule that, in fact, all drugs are as bad as the very worst cherry picked cases brought to the public's attention by the daily mail, are?;)

before you call me a junkie, i've never taken a controlled substance either, never been tempted in the slightest, but i know people who have and there are plenty who lead successful lives without descending into the downward spiral...

[melody]

I feel that what this teacher does in his private life is none of his employers business, unless of course it directly impacts on his work and puts the children in his care at risk.

I don't feel that a code of professional conduct should strictly define how an individual behaves in their private life too.

I know of a nurse who was struck off the register for being a lapdancer in her private time. The NMC decided that she was not 'upholding and enhancing the good reputation of the profession'. Never mind that she was an absolutely brilliant nurse.

[the_lone_wolf]

Never mind that she was an absolutely brilliant nurse.
"Good morning Mr Johnson, has yesterday's swelling gone down yet"

;)

[Biker Biggles]

Id just like to say how encouraged and uplifted I feel by the attitudes shown on this thread.I was expecting a bit of a "hang him out to dry" thread to develop,but the org has risen well above that.Must be a biker thing----we know what its like to be a hated minority.

[Lozzo]

I know of a nurse who was struck off the register for being a lapdancer in her private time. The NMC decided that she was not 'upholding and enhancing the good reputation of the profession'. Never mind that she was an absolutely brilliant nurse.

That's all very well...but what was she like as a lap-dancer?

[Biker Biggles]

Abi Titmuss was a nurse before going on to bigger things

It does annoy me though that these "professional bodies",which are largely self appointed or in the patronage of anonymous quangos,can destroy peoples careers and put them out of work without any legal redress unless you happen to be very rich and can sue privately.
Its a throwback to feudalism and should be radically overhauled.

[SoulKiss]

Abi Titmuss was a nurse before going on to bigger things

It does annoy me though that these "professional bodies",which are largely self appointed or in the patronage of anonymous quangos,can destroy peoples careers and put them out of work without any legal redress unless you happen to be very rich and can sue privately.
Its a throwback to feudalism and should be radically overhauled.

Help, Help, I'm being oppressed :)

[CoolGirl]

Abi Titmuss was a nurse before going on to bigger things

It does annoy me though that these "professional bodies",which are largely self appointed or in the patronage of anonymous quangos,can destroy peoples careers and put them out of work without any legal redress unless you happen to be very rich and can sue privately.
Its a throwback to feudalism and should be radically overhauled.

not true - whilst people can - and do, and are encouraged to - self-nominate, ask the public appointments committee (and us civil servants who have to do the digging) how much effort and time it takes to actually appoint suitable candidates.

[Ed]

and as someone with a self confessed absolutist view on the subject and zero experience you're best placed to rule that, in fact, all drugs are as bad as the very worst cherry picked cases brought to the public's attention by the daily mail, are?;)

before you call me a junkie, i've never taken a controlled substance either, never been tempted in the slightest, but i know people who have and there are plenty who lead successful lives without descending into the downward spiral...

I don't want to turn this into a debate on the evils of drug abuse. As I've said, I fail to see the advantages to anyone of using drugs. Sorry it just doesn't wash with me. And I maintain that anyone who is caught in possession is bound to have a softer message on the subject, else why would they have them in the first place? For someone else's use? oh come on... So if this teacher has accepted a caution (and he would have had to accept it) then how likely is it that the bloke will deliver the message that drug use is bad news? The fact that some might do occasional grass and live non-addict lives is irrelevant, no?

BTW I don't read the Daily Mail;)

[Biker Biggles]

My experience of the actual workings of one of these bodies at least is dreadful to put it mildly.A combination of basic maladministration and institutional hubris makes Mr Soulkiss Pythonesque comment above so true it isnt true.It shows the worst possible incarnation of how we empower the wannabe great and good types to the point of corruption and give no redress to those who become its victims.
I cant name names on here of course,but suffice to say I work with the "victims" of the system.

[the_lone_wolf]

So if this teacher has accepted a caution (and he would have had to accept it) then how likely is it that the bloke will deliver the message that drug use is bad news?
why should he?

we've been delivering the message that alcohol is bad news for years, and look how well that's worked out

you're basing the root of the problem on the assumption that you're right, when you may not be;)

[Ed]

why should he?

we've been delivering the message that alcohol is bad news for years, and look how well that's worked out

you're basing the root of the problem on the assumption that you're right, when you may not be;)

Of course I'm right, I always am:D

'So kids, today we're going to talk about drugs. I'm supposed to tell you how evil they are but in reality I've been busted for possession myself so I can't stand here and tell you the official line cos that would make me a hypocrite. Nope, they're quite harmless really, my experience is that a little bit of recreational coke is perfectly OK and certainly hasn't done me any harm except that I've got a criminal record'

OK I'll STFU now.

[grh1904]

Some very interesting comments. I find myself just about agreeing with everyone!!!!!!!!!!!.

Yes I do feel that there should be a distinction between private life and work life, BUT, I do also feel that within certain professions there is an element of trust.

AND, that the bonds of trust should not be broken.

Now. lets look at BluePete's original post and the links to the stories, and compare them to other professions.

Listed below are some jobs, would you still fell the same if you read the stories but the word teacher was replaced with: -

Doctor.

Bus Driver.

Fireman.

Electrician.

Police Constable.

Shop Assistant.

Call Centre Staff.

I could go on with listing dozens of jobs.

In some of them you would probably read the articles and just think "useless ****"

But in others there is an element of trust, you rely on these people, even put your life in their hands, even the bus driver. Would you get on the bus if you knew that in his spare time his hobbies were getting p*ssed, off his t*ts on coke and smashing things up?????.

[Biker Biggles]

I wouldnt need to know anything about the private lives of any of the above,provided that they were fit and able when they turned up to work.Thats the dividing line for me.Going beyond that raises too many issues and gives too much power to those who dont deserve it.

[pete m]

[

Doctor.

Bus Driver.

Fireman.

Electrician.

Police Constable.

Shop Assistant.

Call Centre Staff.

I could go on with listing dozens of jobs.

In some of them you would probably read the articles and just think "useless ****"

But in others there is an element of trust, you rely on these people, even put your life in their hands, even the bus driver. Would you get on the bus if you knew that in his spare time his hobbies were getting p*ssed, off his t*ts on coke and smashing things up?????.[/quote]


gee - i really HATE to disiilusion you guys who spend your time in front of Blue Peter :cool: & watch with mother, but out in the real world many members of all the above professions spend their w/es and evenings getting trashed...wake up, smell the coffee , Its a twisted world , :smt008

[the_lone_wolf]

Nope, they're quite harmless really...
you can warn about the dangers without getting hysterical about them, you'll do far more to educate children about the dangers of certain things by explaining them, than simply saying "drugs are bad, mmmkay";)

for an example of how not to explain adult concepts to kids see how well "abstinence only sex education" is doing over in the less enlightened states of the USA...:rolleyes:

perhaps you could tell them something like :

"kids, this is cocaine*, this is what it does, currently it's illegal to possess or use because the consequences of allowing an addiction to cocaine to develop are these"

*at this point you could produce a little from your pocket to show the class...

OK I'll STFU now.
probably good:p

while we're on the subject of people who've used but not abused cocaine, how about dame helen mirren:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7591142.stm

[SoulKiss]

how about dame helen mirren

Thats DAME Helen Mirren to you :P

[the_lone_wolf]

Thats DAME Helen Mirren to you :P

damn helen mirren:rolleyes:

[Bluepete]

Ok, I have to admit the opinions on here are changing my mind a fair bit. He is on the senior management team and is, by all accounts a capable teacher.

However, lets say he keeps his job, how do the education authority go on about ensuring he is not under the influence of cocaine when at school if indeed they decide there is a need to? Never used any drugs myself so don't know how long they remain active in the system.

Urine tests every Monday for a year?

Or is that taking the p1ss?

[Jester666]

Urine tests every Monday for a year?

Or is that taking the p1ss?

Could be done.

Some companies already have random drug testing so why not teachers as well?

[Biker Biggles]

Why not test everybody for illegal drugs?If you got nothing to hide you have nothing to fear from this.
See where this is heading?

[jambo]

I'd post an opinion but I'm off to get drunk. Thankfully that's no one's business but my own provided I turn up to work tomorrow able to perform to my usual cheery standards.

Note: Am going to get drunk does not equal have massive alcohol problem and should not be trusted to ride a motorbike past children's schools in case I'm intoxicated.

Jambo

[Biker Biggles]

Dont think we wont be keeping a close eye on your antisocial drinking habits.Your employer will be informed too.

[Bluepete]

Why not test everybody for illegal drugs?If you got nothing to hide you have nothing to fear from this.
See where this is heading?

I am subject to random drug and alcohol testing and have nothing to fear and I have no convictions for either. (or anything else!)

However, this guy does and when in control of the kids, do the employers have a duty to ensure the employee is in a fit state?

[Biker Biggles]

If everyone obeyed all the rules all the time no one would have anything to fear from any level of surveillance.
Have you ever read 1984 by some old f&rt called George Orwell?
Well worth a dip into.

[DanAbnormal]

I'm not sure. If it were my children he taught I would be slightly concerned but then the guy is human and not a flawless robot either. Shoot, I've done some pretty darn stupid things in my time but I am still a nice and honest person capable of holding down a job with responsibilities. I don't think he should hang for his offences or lose his job but maybe should take a mental note to go steady on the alcopops and fairy dust next time.

And you can bet your bum that this whole story has been grossly exaggerated by the media.

[Jayneflakes]

As an ex teacher, I can add another insight to this. Firstly, While at Uni the biggest users if drugs in my block were the trainee teachers at the end of the corridor. Speed, Coke and smoke, they had it in abundance...

As for gross misconduct out of work, to be a teacher you must have a CRB, which I believe lists drug offences, the school may well be with in their rights to sack a Teacher who is no longer in possession of a clean CRB. If this is the case, the guy has just lost his career, because no state school will employ some one who does not have a clean CRB.

What a night out though, Loads of booze & cocaine, vandalising a listed building and getting into a fight. The silly boy should have finished it with a kebab like wot I duz!

If everyone obeyed all the rules all the time no one would have anything to fear from any level of surveillance.
Have you ever read 1984 by some old f&rt called George Orwell?
Well worth a dip into.


That is my favourite book of all time, although I always get a bit sad with the closing lines in Winston and Julia's final meeting... It is the whole "I betrayed you" speech. Breaks my heart every time I read it. The 1984 film version is also rather good and can induce tears in me if the mood is right.

[neio79]

What a night out though, Loads of booze & cocaine, vandalising a listed building and getting into a fight. The silly boy should have finished it with a kebab like wot I duz!

Ahh you have been on the pi*s with the Paras as well then:p

[hovis]

he sounds like a normal bloke.

id rather have him teaching my kids (if i had any) than a vicar with loads of pics of kids on his pc

[ixlr8]

The most significant influence/role model children have are.....parents. No-one has mentioned the behaviour of parents.

So when we parents are lillywhite, drink but only responsibly, can honestly say we've never done bad things in our past, don't smoke or do drugs, don't speed or do anything that sets a rule-breaking example, then let's be holier than thou with the teachers.

FFS.

[northwind]

I don't think it has the slightest impact on his ability to do the job, if he was drunk in charge of kids or found in possession on school property or similiar that would be relevent, this IMO has nothing to do with his work.