View Full Version : CBR 125 or YZF R125?
missrubberduckofdeath
03-09-08, 10:47 AM
Hey everyone!
Not been on here for a while! Had to postpone my lessons etc as had to pay off an expensive holiday...but now that's done i can't wait to get back into it!
I am going to try and do my CBT in November now but I'd like to try and get a bike before then so I can get on it once i've completed my CBT.
I've been thinking about a Honda CBR 125 but I have had suggestion of a Yamaha YZF R125. Does anyone know of anyone who has had one of these bikes? I know it may not seem practical for a learner, but I might keep it for a while so i'm keen to get a bike i really like.
I appreciate any feedback :)
Cat :cat:
fizzwheel
03-09-08, 10:49 AM
I think the YZF looks much better, it looks like an R6 very nice. Foxyinleather brought hers to the AR and very nice we all thought it was to.
CBR's are very popular so you might find you get more choice of those as they've been about longer where I tink the YZF is new out this year.
arenalife
03-09-08, 10:52 AM
The R125 has amazing reviews, have a look on reviewcentre.com, even big bike riders are enjoying it and no matter how much it's ragged they're not getting less than 100 mpg too. It's gorgeous in the flesh too, unlike the CBR which look like an electric kids toy. I had a sit on one at a dealer and it feels great, very light too.
Mint ones with a few hundred miles are going for about £2300 on eBay at the moment too. At that price you could ride it for a year or two and only lose a couple of hundred quid if you keep it mint.
SoulKiss
03-09-08, 10:53 AM
Depends really.
If you intend moving to a bigger bike, like a Ninja250 like Foxy did then save yourself a grand and get a CG125 or YBF-125 as a learner bike. It will also hold value better when you come to re-sell, those bikes if bought second hand can often be sold for the same as they were bought for.
Also means if you drop it you wont have fairings etc to worry about.
Then in a year or so, chuck the saved cash at a big bike.
If you are intending on keeping the 125 for a while then thats a different matter.
I think the R125 looks better - Honda did a cack job of scaling the CBR down - the front fairing looks TOO shrunk for the size of lights on it.
yorkie_chris
03-09-08, 10:54 AM
Neither. Get a TZR.
suzsv650
03-09-08, 11:07 AM
None of above
RS125
Alpinestarhero
03-09-08, 11:10 AM
No brainer here; If i was buying maria a 125, it'd be the yamaha
yzf r125
looks just like a R6, the white and red one looks lush.
None of above
RS125
I wouldn't waste my money on the poorly put together pieces of rubbish.
Buy Japanese
Having said that, the CBR is mainly made in Thailand and the Yamaha is made in either Spain or Italy - difference is that Honda and Yamaha use some sort of quality control system, unlike Aprilia.
Biker Biggles
03-09-08, 11:20 AM
These race rep 125s are really expensive IMO.Why dont you bite the bullet and spend the money on doing your test?With a full license you have choices open to you that save money in the long term.An SV maybe?
Alpinestarhero
03-09-08, 11:21 AM
I wouldn't waste my money on the poorly put together pieces of rubbish.
Buy Japanese
Same here; they look nice from 5 feet away, but get closer and there are some flaws. ALso, they need expensive services every 10,000 miles (new piston i believe?)
And not only do they drink petrol...they drink oil too
Dappa D
03-09-08, 11:26 AM
a cbr 125 parks next to me in work...looks pants....as already said looks like a toy...not a proper bike....
if you will be moving up to a bigger bike its worth seriously considering saving your money for test and next "proper" bike, as once you have your cbt and been riding for a while...like a day or less!..you WILL want something bigger / faster etc....
from the 2 you have mentioned id say the yam....
but personally id recommend a cg (if u dont care about looks at all)
or..what i had.. a Honda CLR125 "cityfly (between £500 - £800) pic attached
whatever you choose.....have fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
missrubberduckofdeath
03-09-08, 11:35 AM
Thanks for the advice!
I'm going to check out some of the other bikes mentioned and do a bit of online research. I want to think about it properly and not make a rush decision. It will be my first bike after all, but i'm sure i'll love it no matter what!
:cat:
muffles
03-09-08, 11:38 AM
No brainer here; If i was buying maria a 125, it'd be the yamaha
Lol, that sounds like a hint if ever I saw one ;)
I also think it's an easy choice - the Yam looks like a real bike, the CBR is out of Super Paper Mario. :)
As said it depends on hw long you are going to keep the 125 fo. If you are getting one to practice on for your test unless you have money to burn get a CG125. then once you have your restriced licence get something like Foxy has (the Ninja 250).
If you insist on getting the 125 and keeping it for a while then the YZF-125 is the best 125 about no questions. Its looks and dimensions are almost identical to the R6. and i heard rumors of Suzuki releasing a GSXR-125.
Alpinestarhero
03-09-08, 11:45 AM
Yamaha YBR125's (naked bike) are good, I rode one of those against a CG when i did my trianing (CG had a failed speedo so had to change) and it felt nice, smooth, good throttle response, good brakes. Fuel injected aswell, and have a kickstart i think too incase you get a duff battery ;) I even passed my test on it, it was that good :D
When you pass, if you can get a restricted SV that'd be good, but im quite jelous of those who get to be able to spend their two 33bhp years on a 250 ninja....
, but im quite jelous of those who get to be able to spend their two 33bhp years on a 250 ninja....
Yeah but think of it like this in 2 years time there will be a fair few of them kicking about for use as winer hacks/commuting tools.
And i am sure those on the 250 are just as jelous of us that are riding around on proper Ninja's ;)
Biker Biggles
03-09-08, 11:57 AM
Yeah but shes not doing the test,just a CBT,which is a mistake IMO.Do the test,as the few days training you get are worth it just to learn to stay alive never mind the other benefits.
metalmonkey
03-09-08, 12:02 PM
Thanks for the advice!
I'm going to check out some of the other bikes mentioned and do a bit of online research. I want to think about it properly and not make a rush decision. It will be my first bike after all, but i'm sure i'll love it no matter what!
:cat:
Okay I had a 125 before my SV I looked at buying a CBR 125,but they were out of budget really I just wanted a hack to learn on.
So I bought a Yamaha sr125 which really was fine for learning on, I did over 2500 miles on that bike in 4 months. I enjoyed riding it, cleanng it ect. Its a basic leaner bike, I sold for £800, paid £720 for it.
In that time I paid for tax, mot, new rear tyre and had to have some work done on it. I was cheap biking and great fun.
I have sat on the YBR 125 there are nice for sure, being a short ars* I fit bikes like that really well.
The choice is yours but look at this way. My leaner bike was unfaired, I droped it once and snap the break leaver, how much damage would have been done to a YBR if I dropped it?
I think you need to decide wheter you just want a leaner bike, or something to keep for a years. My 125 was always going to be a leaner, casue I had also bought my SV the month after the 125. I aways wanted an SV I saw it fell :smt060 as they say the rest is history.
If you ave any questions just ask. Good luck with the bike and whatever you choose, may see you at a rideout:D
yorkie_chris
03-09-08, 12:06 PM
If you want a fun 125 it's got to be a stroker. Not ridden the YZF but the CBR125 is really dull
If you want a fun 125 it's got to be a stroker. Not ridden the YZF but the CBR125 is really dull
I rode the YZF 125, it actually feels good. obviously there is no power realy and 75+ is a real struggle but its fun to ride . However i can see you wanting more powere and speed very quickly. Just ask Foxy, she really is the best person to speak to as she had the Yam.
metalmonkey
03-09-08, 12:12 PM
I rode the YZF 125, it actually feels good. obviously there is no power realy and 75+ is a real struggle but its fun to ride . However i can see you wanting more powere and speed very quickly. Just ask Foxy, she really is the best person to speak to as she had the Yam.
Could you not get a test of a YBR 125? Worth asking anyway!
I'm with the - think more about it crowd.
But if you do decide you want one then definately check out the YZF as everything I've read about the CBR is that it's dissapointing.
Dissapointing CBR - The engine is straight from a prevous 125 offering (XL before it was a Varadero) and isn't as powerful as it could be and apparently the gearbox is pretty horrible.
Skip the 125 - You can past the 125 test without a lot of training. At that point you could move straight to a 250 or soemthing restricted. It's worth considering.
My & my CG - I bought a CG125 new as my first bike in 1999. I still have it and have no intention of getting rid of it (I tend to insure it for my friends to learn on). It did me very well as main transport for a year and occasional transport since then. Really it has been little trouble (except that of my own making). So I'm a fan of them - I am sure that other Jap 125's are probably as good. I can't see the plastics of the bikes you're looking at being of much benefit, though they do look better.
A decent 125 - I've long wished that Honda (or someone) would do a really good 125. The CG is 'ok' but with better brakes (mine is drum, current ones are disc and might be better) and a revamped engine (ie max learner legal power and if possible better economy) it'd be awesome.
I'd really like a go on a Ninja 250. If I'd know that was coming out I might have got one of those instead of an SV. Not as quick I know but it might have been viable as transport whereas the SV is just too expensive (once you factor tyres in) to use everyday.
Could you not get a test of a YBR 125? Worth asking anyway!
I am sure she could ask, but a dealer may require more than a CBT cert to hand over the keys.
suzsv650
03-09-08, 12:32 PM
I wouldn't waste my money on the poorly put together pieces of rubbish.
Buy Japanese
Having said that, the CBR is mainly made in Thailand and the Yamaha is made in either Spain or Italy - difference is that Honda and Yamaha use some sort of quality control system, unlike Aprilia.
You, do not know what you are talking about.....
SoulKiss
03-09-08, 12:36 PM
You, do not know what you are talking about.....
Uh-oh ---- DUCK AND COVER EVERYONE !!!!!!
Waits for Lozzo's witty response, popcorn to hand :)
yorkie_chris
03-09-08, 12:37 PM
RS125 ... it's not about how fast you go, it's about if you get there :-D
I would suggest that he does...
metalmonkey
03-09-08, 12:42 PM
Uh-oh ---- DUCK AND COVER EVERYONE !!!!!!
Waits for Lozzo's witty response, popcorn to hand :)
+1:D
You, do not know what you are talking about.....
LOL, i think he does, he may be along in a bit to put you straight;)
Uh-oh ---- DUCK AND COVER EVERYONE !!!!!!
Waits for Lozzo's witty response, popcorn to hand :)
:smt040 oh yes!! :p
Yamaha YBR125's (naked bike) are good, I rode one of those against a CG when i did my trianing (CG had a failed speedo so had to change) and it felt nice, smooth, good throttle response, good brakes. Fuel injected aswell, and have a kickstart i think too incase you get a duff battery ;) I even passed my test on it, it was that good :D
....
The YBR is probably the worst built Yamaha I have ever seen. They are made in China and really aren't all that well put together. I can't remember the amount of times I shredded my fingers when assembling them from the crate, when I worked at a Yamaha dealers. They are reliable enginewise, but the chassis parts are about as good as any other Chinese built 125.
SoulKiss
03-09-08, 01:42 PM
Waits and chomps on popcorn (well have to get rid of the newline characters) while waiting for Lozzo to get further down the thread.....
The YBR is probably the worst built Yamaha I have ever seen.
Would it also happen to be the cheapest (new) Yamaha you've ever seen? How bad is bad?
Also - what do you mean by "built". My CG is covered in rust and looks really tatty. So arguably it's build quality was rubbish, however I think it's mechanically sound and good for a long time yet, so all is not exactly lost.
You, do not know what you are talking about.....
Is that so?
I await your in depth, or even shortened, post on why you think an RS125 would be a suitable learner bike? Or were you refering to the information i posted about where the Honda and Yamaha are made. If that's the case then check the headstock plates on either...it's all written there
Here's my reasons why the RS125 should be avoided:
- Expensive to buy new and used because they have a reputation for being fast, therefore every 17 year old chav to55er wants one.
- Poorly made (don't try and kid yourself that they aren't)
- 2 stroke
- Peaky engine makes them difficult to learn on
- Unreliable
- Expensive spares
- Incredibly rubbish electrics
- Short service intervals
- 10K piston life
- Used ones are invariably abused by some idiot 17 year old.
- Every 17 year old chav to55er will try and steal it.
I work on a variety of bikes day in day out, I see enough RS125s to know how crap they really are.
Would it also happen to be the cheapest (new) Yamaha you've ever seen? How bad is bad?
Also - what do you mean by "built". My CG is covered in rust and looks really tatty. So arguably it's build quality was rubbish, however I think it's mechanically sound and good for a long time yet, so all is not exactly lost.
Some of the smaller Yamahas like the supermoto 50 (made in Spain by Derbi I think) aren't all that bad. The TZR50 (Made by Belgarda in Italy)uses the same Minarelli AM6 engine that the Aprilia RS50 has, and they are generally reliable as long as the owners don't try to tune them and if they are run on decent quality fully synth 2-stroke oil. The YBR wasn't as well put together, it had riough edges and the finish of things like the chassis parts wasn't brilliant.
CGs haven't been made in Japan for years, and the quality has suffered a little. The worst ones were those made in Turkey, but the Brazilian ones aren't as bad.
, but the Brazilian ones aren't as bad.
:cheers: my 1990/91 Brazillian one os ok then!!
It has a few bits of corosion on it but it starts first time and runs well. I think this winter i may treat it to a full service and change the brake shoes and chain and sprocket. :cool:, ohh that will cost me about 50 quid LOL
yorkie_chris
03-09-08, 02:00 PM
50 quid... I fitted entire new running gear and engine for less than that :-P
SoulKiss
03-09-08, 02:02 PM
Well my CG is of the Turkish Delight variety....
Dappa D
03-09-08, 02:08 PM
dips into soulkiss's popcorn when hes not looking.......\\:D/
CGs haven't been made in Japan for years, and the quality has suffered a little. The worst ones were those made in Turkey, but the Brazilian ones aren't as bad.
Mine's Turkish!
Mine's Turkish!
I refer you to Neio's post about his 1990/91 Brazil built one having only a few spots of corrosion. That's the sort of thing that lets the Turkish built bikes down. Their engine's are pretty unburstable, but as they are so under-stressed with a pushrod engine that has the cam sitting in the oil, it's hardly surprising.
My questions were all serious.
CG - I didn't\haven't exactly taken care of my CG. It got ridden in all weathers and seldom washed. I'd like to tidy it up and try to keep it reasonably tidy now to prolong it's life.
Build quality - Poor finish is undesirable but not as serious as component quality that is so bad it leads to premature and catastrophic failure. I'm never sure which people mean.
I'm still waiting ....
me too
fastdruid
03-09-08, 02:32 PM
Here's my reasons why the RS125 should be avoided:
- Expensive spares
I don't think that quite conveys just how expensive they are, I think you should have put something like
- VERY VERY VERY Expensive spares that you will wait months for.
My wife started on an RS50, fantastic bike to ride but put us off owning another aprilia.
The CBR125 I like, it's fun to ride (although slow as hell) but it is still cheap and nasty, they rust bloody quick if not taken care of. I doubt the R125 would be much better in that regard either.
Spares are cheap though for the CBR, like 25 pounds a fairing panel, 16 pounds for the front subframe etc IIRC Aprilia wanted something like 300quid a side for the RS50!
Downside is that indicators are the same as the CBR600RRRRRRRR and are 45quid each[1] but you can get identical looking and fitting honda indicators off another model (can't remember which off the top of my head) that are half the price, you just need to change the connectors.
A friend of mine bought a 2005 CBR125 with a bit of cosmetic damage for 995, bought new parts and a few bits of ebay, spend about 200quid on it in total, had a years riding on it and she's just sold it for 1400. :)
Druid
[1] In comparison RVF400 indicators are a rather reasonable 13quid.
the_lone_wolf
03-09-08, 02:38 PM
Yamaha might look like an R6, unfortunately it sounds like an asthmatic lawnmower...:(
My questions were all serious.
So are my answers, Ii'm not exactly blessed with a sense of humour, some people see my scathing diatribes in some forums as witty banter - it's not, I just tell it how I see it.
CG - I didn't\haven't exactly taken care of my CG. It got ridden in all weathers and seldom washed. I'd like to tidy it up and try to keep it reasonably tidy now to prolong it's life.
Build quality - Poor finish is undesirable but not as serious as component quality that is so bad it leads to premature and catastrophic failure. I'm never sure which people mean.
I see your point. The thing is with CGs, the engines were mainly built in Japan and shipped out to the localised factories where the rest of the bike was assembled. You'll find that wherever you get this kind of situation you have a locally produced percentage of the bike or car's parts. This is usually because the local government is funding the building of the factory to bring work to the area in patrtnership with the manufacturer, so they like to get as many of the local population into work as possible, even if it's on the supply chain to the manufacturing plan. To do this they stipulate that a certain percentage of the vehicle must be locally sourced. Nissan do it at their Washington plant, Toyota at Derby, Honda at Swindon etc. You'll find most of the seating for those plants is made just outside Coventry rather than brought in from Japan. Before I got involved with supplying the motorcycle industry I was European Sales Manager for a major car seating company that was based in Northern USA, who are now totally owned by Toyota USA. I dealt with the supply contracts and tenders daily and know how it works.
Turkish CGs are pretty much all made in that country, with the engines brought in ready built from Japan. The standard that parts are made to and finished isn't as good as the Brazilian ones and they aren't as reliable. It's daft things like corrosion that lets them down, and this extends to corrosion of electrical parts/connectors especially. Another factor is the quality of the labour involved in assembly. If the area was known for engineering then you may find a better built vehicle, but if you drag a load of unemployed peasants in to build them the results can be catastrophic...anyone remember the Alfa Romeo Alfasuds of the 70s?
Yamaha might look like an R6, unfortunately it sounds like an asthmatic lawnmower...:(
dont all 4 stroke 125's?
the_lone_wolf
03-09-08, 03:03 PM
dont all 4 stroke 125's?
yes, but a CG125 does a good visual impression of a lawnmower;)
Alpinestarhero
03-09-08, 03:45 PM
The YBR is probably the worst built Yamaha I have ever seen. They are made in China and really aren't all that well put together. I can't remember the amount of times I shredded my fingers when assembling them from the crate, when I worked at a Yamaha dealers. They are reliable enginewise, but the chassis parts are about as good as any other Chinese built 125.
Oh, poo :( well, they still mean something to me :p:smt040
Oh, poo :( well, they still mean something to me :p:smt040
They are still alot better than a fair few bikes out there, but built to a low price so not the best example of something to keep forever. Great little engines in them, same unit as the TTR125 off roader has and they are bullet-proof. I'm wondering how rough they'll look in 3 or 4 years time - I've seen one or two that are already showing serious signs of corrosion after just one winter.
Oh...and I'm still waiting to hear how wonderful RS125s are as first time learner bikes.
Oh...and I'm still waiting to hear how wonderful RS125s are as first time learner bikes.
Cos theyz fast innit?
I agree, I can't see how they're so popular. Restricted to cbt power they must be absolute cack, it can't be something the police enforce too rigidly.
In answer to the original question: I'd like a go on an R125, but really don't care for the CBR.
yorkie_chris
03-09-08, 04:30 PM
If you buy used then good luck finding one that's still restricted.
Oh...and I'm still waiting to hear how wonderful RS125s are as first time learner bikes.
Nah.....
TZR all the way.......
:smt051
Edit: Think I'd be tempted in your place to do the restricted test ASAP then have a wider range of stuff to choose from.
If you buy used then good luck finding one that's still restricted.
Exactly, they're all derestricted, I guess the police just don't care.
Nostrils
03-09-08, 04:40 PM
What to buy - What to do?
What to buy: I ordered my CBR125RR before my CBT on the recommendation of a friend who rode a CBR600RR because I was looking at buying a CG125. Passed my CBT on the Saturday and had the bike delivered on the Monday. The CBR has been one of the best rated 125 bikes for years, certainly against the competition. As others have said here, you will find it a little under powered and riding into the wind and a small incline, you will struggle to keep the bike in the 70's if at all. I had this bike for a year before passing my test and getting my SV. Honda supply their fairing complete with stickers/paint, where as Suzuki dont, not sure about the others, but something to bear in mind!
Since Yamaha have brought out a competitor, I now would recommend this instead of the CBR on the looks front, its new, fresh and resemble a bigger bike in the right colour. Dont know anything about the performance, reliabiltiy or anything. If I was taking my CBT now, I would not hesitate on the Yamaha.
What to do: That is for you to decide - Get 'a' bike, pass your CBT and get some miles under you belt as you may have missed the boat on getting your test before it changes OR Do you bite the bullet and find a training school with pre-booked test before they change and book a full week of training to do you CBT and your DAS (and/or A2) and you can then choose a bike of your choice.
It there a 3rd choice! Do you CBT and get the bike you want, restrict it and start learning on a big bike and take you test in the spring!!
Decisions, Decisions
Biker Biggles
03-09-08, 04:40 PM
I seem to remember the RS fails the restricted hurdle anyway on its power to weight ratio?????
It seems they are all carp,so forget them and do your test.
Biker Biggles
03-09-08, 04:42 PM
Oh and you cant ride a restricted big bike on a CBT.You must do a test to do that.
yorkie_chris
03-09-08, 05:16 PM
It's questionable, I seem to remember reading that they include "all fluids" in the DVLA weight, prillas claimed weight will be optimistic.
Alpinestarhero
03-09-08, 06:27 PM
Oh...and I'm still waiting to hear how wonderful RS125s are as first time learner bikes.
look pretty awefull to me; all hunched over, handlebars fairly close together, its not the commanding riding position that helps a newbie with slow control and looking ahead to plan in advance.
I would like a go on one. But, then, I would probably skip the 125 and jump onto the 250
Alpinestarhero
03-09-08, 07:03 PM
what are you waiting for lozzo?
what are you waiting for lozzo?
An answer from Suzsv650 to say to why he thinks I don't know what I'm on about.
I rode the YZF 125, it actually feels good. obviously there is no power realy and 75+ is a real struggle but its fun to ride . However i can see you wanting more powere and speed very quickly. Just ask Foxy, she really is the best person to speak to as she had the Yam.
Absolutely Neio...hmmm not sure you managed to get my Yam to 75 though ;). I got it to 84 but realistically it was probably about 75 :rolleyes:.
Great little bike and bought it as I hadn't passed my test yet and wanted to go on the AR08 but once I passed my test (which happened to be just in time for the AR08) I very quickly found I needed more power as Neio says.
I don't regret buying my Yam and if I had to do it over again wouldn't change a thing. I just feel that for a main bike and having passed my test the Yam just wasn't powerful enough and had to have it lowered 40mm as I am only 5ft 2. I had the seat scooped out on my Ninja 250R and it is now the perfect height for me :D and the weight of it is perfect too love it!!!
Well, it looks like Mr Suzsv650s can't or won't give me an explanation, which in my book pretty much puts him in the position of not knowing what he's on about.
Dappa D
04-09-08, 01:36 PM
Hey everyone!
Not been on here for a while! Had to postpone my lessons etc as had to pay off an expensive holiday...but now that's done i can't wait to get back into it!
I am going to try and do my CBT in November now but I'd like to try and get a bike before then so I can get on it once i've completed my CBT.
I've been thinking about a Honda CBR 125 but I have had suggestion of a Yamaha YZF R125. Does anyone know of anyone who has had one of these bikes? I know it may not seem practical for a learner, but I might keep it for a while so i'm keen to get a bike i really like.
I appreciate any feedback :)
Cat :cat:
hi cat, the exact honda clr cityfly 125 of which i spoke of earlier in the thread is for sale as it turns out....the guy i sold it too has now passed his test...he's looking for around 800 for it...think he would take 700-750 tho pm me if ud like his details or pics..i have lots..i loved this bike..would buy it back if i had the money as a winter hack...
BBadger
04-09-08, 01:59 PM
why has no one bought up the hyosung gt125r ... apart from mcn's review of them everyone else loves them to bits
otherwise yammy, they look soo nice!
why has no one bought up the hyosung gt125r ... apart from mcn's review of them everyone else loves them to bits
Since when has anyone with an ounce of common sense taken notice of what More Crap than News write? I've seen more journalistic talent in a primary school kid's 'wot i did larst nite' diary.
BBadger
04-09-08, 05:53 PM
Since when has anyone with an ounce of common sense taken notice of what More Crap than News write? I've seen more journalistic talent in a primary school kid's 'wot i did larst nite' diary.
ha !
my point exactly , they slated it but it is one of the best 125 budget v twins
why has no one bought up the hyosung gt125r ... apart from mcn's review of them everyone else loves them to bits
I had a sit on one at a show and it seemed and looked like a very nice bike to me. Couldn't see any issues with it bar the name on the tank if you are snobbish about that sort of thing.
Well that gives you some idea what the riding positiong might be like, nothing else.
Personally I'd be interested in such minor details as reliability, build quality, performance (handling, braking as well as speed) of somethign I was going to spend many hundreds of my hard earned on.
Steve Linsdell of Flitwick Motorcycles, who is a well respected motorcycle engineer, was quoted in PB as saying something along the lines of "We won't touch a Chinese built bike, we turn them away if people want them fixing because they are rubbish and will only break again. But, It's the Koreans the Japanese have got to watch, the quality of the bikes they are making is good and getting much better all the time".
There's a kiddie round here who had a naked Hyosung 250 V-twin that he fitted Nitrous Oxide to for a laugh. It went like stink and was seriously abused, but it was still going strong 25,000 miles later.
Have you read the reviews on the Hyosung GTR650, they reckon out of the crate the engine may not have an SVs refinement, but it out-handles an SV all day long and the build quality in some respects is better.
My point was that you can't tell very much just by sitting on a machine in a showroom or on a display stand. I was making no comment at all about the quality of any machine Japanese, Korean or otherwise.
You can tell very much about a bike by sitting on it a showroom i.e is it for you and is it worth moving onto the next step of looking at further reviews on the net.
I assumed from your @rsey response that you knew of some bad things about the Hyosung. My original post was not any comment on the quality, reliability or otherwise, just saying i'd seen it and it looked a nice bike and was mebbe another to look at.
Which of my responses are you calling @rsey? The one I made to your post or the one I made in response to Lozzo's?
The one I made to your post was intended to be critical of the concept of using purely the experiance of sitting on a machine as the sole judgement as to the quality of a machine.
The one to mine - how the hell do you read a post saying i'd sat on one and it looked nice as me "using purely the experiance of sitting on a machine as the sole judgement as to the quality of a machine"
Maybe you didn't intend it as such but from the wording it struck me as kinda trollish and if it wasn't intended as such then fair enough.
BBadger
05-09-08, 03:29 PM
The point is they used to make suzuki's but now make thier own bikes, and what is one of the most popular suzuki's around ( sv650 btw ). So they dont have all the engine refinement and certain bits need a little tinkering to bring up to sv650 standard but you can get a hole range.
nake or fared 125,250,650 and i think they want to bring out a thou soon.
otherwise yammy 125 is the best around.
454697819
05-09-08, 03:59 PM
I wouldn't waste my money on the poorly put together pieces of rubbish.
Buy Japanese
Having said that, the CBR is mainly made in Thailand and the Yamaha is made in either Spain or Italy - difference is that Honda and Yamaha use some sort of quality control system, unlike Aprilia.
thats a bit unfair..
Have you had a good look at the new 125's from aprilia? and the other bikes for that matter.. Fantastic detail level and quality
yorkie_chris
05-09-08, 04:02 PM
Says the man who's bought a prilla hehehe.
The 125 2strokes aren't at all reliable, they need looking after, but they're predictable in their unreliability.
454697819
05-09-08, 04:33 PM
Says the man who's bought a prilla hehehe.
The 125 2strokes aren't at all reliable, they need looking after, but they're predictable in their unreliability.
shhh... dont tell any one the tuono is back in for more warrenty work on monday either...:cool:
The response to Lozzo probably was on the arsey side (I'll concede sarcasm is a low form of wit) but that was directed at Lozzo and I hope he'll see why. If he then objects to the tone of my post and says so, I'll take note.
Being the happy go lucky, cheerful, helpful, friendly chap that I am, I saw no sarcasm or wit in your post.
I merely pointed out that Durbs' 'sat on the bike' observations weren't unfounded and gave examples of why I thought this. Hyosung do make good bikes which is borne out by reviews and the word of a respected engineer friend of mine. Build quality is a good pointer of the overall quality of a machine - it's rare you see something that is very well built but useless in its intended function.
Maybe I was wrong, but the way that I read your post it seemed that you had no respect for Hyosungs as viable machines in today's market.
thats a bit unfair..
Have you had a good look at the new 125's from aprilia? and the other bikes for that matter.. Fantastic detail level and quality
I think they look extremely nice but I'm still not impressed by the build quality; you may think it's good compared to Aprilias of old, but to me they are still miles away from ebing acceptable. Plus they still have horrible, unreliable 2-stroke engines. I don't think I'm being unfair at all when I say that I wouldn't spend my own money on one if I was in the market for a 125cc bike, regardless of whether I was a learner or experienced.
Someone told me yesterday that the new RS50 was now built in at Aprilia's factory in China alongside the Scarebo 125 scooters. Well, things can only go from bad to worse.
Dangerous Dave
05-09-08, 04:54 PM
Have you had a good look at the new 125's from aprilia? and the other bikes for that matter.. Fantastic detail level and quality
I have looked, I have serviced, I would like to put one in the skip!
Just because the RS125 and RS50 have gone all Italian fancy detailed extras does not change the fact the engine and electrics have been the same since it was first created, the engine and electrics are the problem!
454697819
05-09-08, 06:15 PM
I have looked, I have serviced, I would like to put one in the skip!
Just because the RS125 and RS50 have gone all Italian fancy detailed extras does not change the fact the engine and electrics have been the same since it was first created, the engine and electrics are the problem!
granted..
when your talikng engines in the two stroke range ill agree..
But if your generalising i dont think branding aprilia bad build quality..!
my 2p..
fizzwheel
05-09-08, 07:52 PM
Can we pack it in with stupid arguing the toss over who said want and stick to the subject matter in hand please.
thanks
Fizz
arenalife
05-09-08, 08:03 PM
FWIW the Yam is built in France by Minarelli, motor/frame/everything.
scottjames
05-09-08, 08:04 PM
my RS50 have been going for two years now and has never let me down. not once. keep putting oil in it when the light flashes and clean it now and gain and it been fine. it gets riden all year round through think and thin. its got 18 tho on it from new by me in 2 years.
looked after they are great bikes. part from itailian prices, :)
any way the cbr has certainly established its self by now an i think it been a sound bike, so ive been told by the few friends who have had them.
FWIW the Yam is built in France by Minarelli, motor/frame/everything.
I though it was made in Spain, by Yamaha's partner, who I think is Derbi but I could be wrong. Yamaha's partner in France is MBK, isn't it? They used to make the BW50 and some other Yamaha scooters.
Minarelli is an Italian company, they make the AM6 engine that is used in Aprilia RS50, TZR50, Peugeot summat sports moped etc - I wasn't aware they had a French manufacturing facility. I've got one of their RS50 engines in bits in my workshop at the moment - utterly detestable pile of crap that it is. I've seen better made Chinese lawn mowers.
my RS50 have been going for two years now and has never let me down. not once. keep putting oil in it when the light flashes and clean it now and gain and it been fine. it gets riden all year round through think and thin. its got 18 tho on it from new by me in 2 years.
It was due a piston and rings about 8 thousand miles ago. You should change them as a precaution at that mileage. It's the main bearings that suffer on RS50s and big ends on RS125s. The RS50 I have in at the moment chewed the little end bearing up and made a lovely 15mm wide groove in the gudgeon pin. On closer inspection the gudgeon pin doesn't appear to have any hardening on it, so that's probably why the little end bearing broke up after it wore away prematurely. The piston and gudgeon pin were genuine Aprilia items that were replaced as a precaution at 12K miles - they lasted 3k miles before destroying themselves. Luckily this one has an iron barrel that can be rebored.
None of above
Aprilia RS125
i second that...
got 1 to learn on, and ended up loving it and riding it for a year and a half, well after i got my full license...
it really puts ALL other 125's to shame...
unlike the Ninja 250, R125 and CBR125, it has upside-down forks, big brake discs with steel braided hoses, and fat tyres...
and it has double the power of the R125 and CBR125 for when you pass your full license...
that way you can ride on 12bhp with your CBT, get your full license and de-restrict it to 30bhp for a few months before moving onto a big bike with 70+bhp...
It is also the only race-derived learner bike of the lot...crazy flickability, rides like it's on rails...
the peaky power band, although tricky to learn on, creates such a satisfying ride, needing to keep the revs up all the time makes for a very involving ride, even when not going very fast...
but it is a good bike to learn on, cos it will stop quicker and turn quicker than any bike with similar displacement...which all in all means you're more likely to avoid a nasty accident
the only downside was i would ride around 1000 miles a month, so i would need to service it so often it became expensive to run, but i commute a 50 mile round trip...
if my commute was closer to 20 miles, the RS would have been alot friendlier on my wallet
the electrics are a weak point, but the build quality is more than adequate and the high specs of the bike more than make up for that.
not even the SV has upside down forks...
i got 1 for sale if you like, PM me if you're interested...
selling it now i got my SV, if i could afford to keep both i would...
I have looked, I have serviced, I would like to put one in the skip!
Just because the RS125 and RS50 have gone all Italian fancy detailed extras does not change the fact the engine and electrics have been the same since it was first created, the engine and electrics are the problem!
pre-'06 models had Rotax 123, new ones have Rotax 122
built in Austria
only probs mine ever had was a dodgy speedo-sensor and oil level light...both fixed free of charge out of warranty cos they were so easy to sort out...
look after it and it lasts...
RS125 ... it's not about how fast you go, it's about if you get there :-D
I would suggest that he does...
mine broke down (non-start) once in 16000 miles...
maybe i got a good 1 though...
arenalife
06-09-08, 09:36 AM
I though it was made in Spain, by Yamaha's partner, who I think is Derbi but I could be wrong. Yamaha's partner in France is MBK, isn't it? They used to make the BW50 and some other Yamaha scooters.
Minarelli is an Italian company, they make the AM6 engine that is used in Aprilia RS50, TZR50, Peugeot summat sports moped etc - I wasn't aware they had a French manufacturing facility. I've got one of their RS50 engines in bits in my workshop at the moment - utterly detestable pile of crap that it is. I've seen better made Chinese lawn mowers.
We're both half right I think, minarelli are a yam company based in italy and have a french division at MBK scooter manufacturing in france where the yam is made. If you look at the yam close up, the manufacturers plate is in francais and says mbk.
Pete_58
06-09-08, 10:05 AM
I contemplated buying a 125 before my sv. I looked at RS125's but a friend didnt rate them highly. He is a bike mechanic by trade so i looked at a CBR 125. A freind had one and swore by it. Never had any dealings with the Yamaha, I'm sure it would be a good bike though.
If it was my money i'd go for the Honda. My 2p worth!
chipper
06-09-08, 10:51 PM
Dissapointing CBR - The engine is straight from a prevous 125 offering (XL before it was a Varadero) and isn't as powerful as it could be and apparently the gearbox is pretty horrible.
The CBR125 using a new engine which has not been used on any bikes previously. It may share some similar components but it is a different engine altogether. Plus the XL is a twin, CBR single.
Is that so?
I await your in depth, or even shortened, post on why you think an RS125 would be a suitable learner bike? Or were you refering to the information i posted about where the Honda and Yamaha are made. If that's the case then check the headstock plates on either...it's all written there
Here's my reasons why the RS125 should be avoided:
- Expensive to buy new and used because they have a reputation for being fast, therefore every 17 year old chav to55er wants one.
- Poorly made (don't try and kid yourself that they aren't)
- 2 stroke
- Peaky engine makes them difficult to learn on
- Unreliable
- Expensive spares
- Incredibly rubbish electrics
- Short service intervals
- 10K piston life
- Used ones are invariably abused by some idiot 17 year old.
- Every 17 year old chav to55er will try and steal it.
I work on a variety of bikes day in day out, I see enough RS125s to know how crap they really are.
The RS may not be a suitable learner bike but plenty have been introduced to bike by owning an RS or any other stroker. Remember, the RS, Mito, NSR, TZR were all constructed in Italy. Many of them still stand the test of time and plenty are still in good condition for their age and not falling apart. Construction has never been an issue with any of the strokers. The unreliability issue, well you just have to look at the sort of people who own the bikes. Some of them will not be too bike savvy and run their bikes down to the ground and let problems develop by not maintaining them as they should be. Mines runs all year round, no matter what the weather is like or how far I am going. Spares are hardly expensive when looking in the right places. Spares for the CBR are pretty damn expensive from the dealer but spares for any bike will be expensive. Look else where, like breakers or ebay, plenty of spares going for the fraction of brand new items. Rebuilds cost pocket money compared to the amount of money that would be needed to fix up a 4 stroke engine £60 a pop for a rebuild when required? hardly expensive. Electrics are hardly an issue. Maybe more so with the Mito with it being fickle but as with any bike, if they are maintained well, no problems should arise. Don't know where you are getting the short service intervals from. Every bike has periodic intervals. Piston life? they are 2 strokes, not 4 strokes and piston changes are expected and part of the maintainence of a stroker. If you cant be prepared to put in the effort in keeping a stroker going, then theres no point in owning one. You can't generalise people who own 2 stroke 125s as irresponsible teenagers. Do you see any older riders bringing in their 2 strokes to be serviced by you? Probably not as most would do the work themselves.
People are taking about spending 3 grand on a glorified 4 stroke bike like the YZF-R125. Theres not much in the package really. Maybe if you require a bike with a good fuel consumption which the R125 has. But people forget that there are plenty of second hand 2 strokes going around for decent prices. You could pay, what? £1200 on a 2 stroke 125? What will you get with that? A decent, proven motor with bags of power, decent brakes, decent suspension and good handling. The sort of hardware these strokers have, is not found on any other low capacity bikes. You would have to look to the 600s and onwards to get the same thing. For a second hand 2 stroke bike, they offer so much for value. Of course, 2 strokes are not for everyone. Some people might be put off by the fact that they would have to invest a little extra effort to keep them going. Which is not much really.
Now a days, its not worth buying an RS or Mito brand new due to all the restrctions in places. Hell, mines is 15 years old, some of the plastics are 17 years old and its showing no sign of giving way at all. No rust on the frame or swing arm, forks, fork tree, plastics are still good apart from some cracks but given their age, they are still looking well and good.
fastdruid
06-09-08, 11:32 PM
<snip> Spares are hardly expensive when looking in the right places. Spares for the CBR are pretty damn expensive from the dealer but spares for any bike will be expensive.
No, sorry but just no, spares for the CBR (apart from indicators) are very reasonable, infact I'd go so far as being cheap, look at the front subframe for example, 16+VAT for the CBR125, it was 110 quid for the same thing for the SV, and 70quid for the RS125.
Fairing panels are 20-29+VAT each, how much are RS125 panels?
Oooh, lets see
http://apriliayorkshire.co.uk/catalogue/partlist.jsp;jsessionid=aw5WuONF7sm_?Catalogo=%3D3 406&Tavola=%3D08&_NomeImmagine=16187911.gif&_bikename=RS%20125%202006&_pagename=Front%20body%20I
177quid!! For the upper fairing alone, then then 120quid a side! If you wrote off a fairing when you include the extra faffy bits its going to be best part of 500quid, that's before you add anything else into it too (like the tail section, that touched down on our RS50, that's an extra 160 quid a side). On the CBR it's 75 pounds a side or 150+VAT total. That's huge when it's a learner bike (and as such a few minor spills are to be expected), the CBR fairing being in three pieces a side and the tail not being as wide also means you're not likely to need all three but more like two or even just the one panel.
Broke the headlight? RS125 = 150quid, CBR125=60+VAT Should I go on?
Plus of course you might wait 5 months for spares where as with Honda you'll get them at most 2 weeks later (and I've only had that once on a 20 year old bike for quite an obscure part). Some people say Honda spares are expensive, I don't, I can get just about anything for a bike made 20 years ago normally within a day. Suzuki are nearly as good but not quite[1].
Aprilia parts are stupid expensive and the supply is unreliable.
Pretty bikes and go well but I'd never buy another Aprilia purely on the spares situation. What use a bike that sits off the road for the summer because you are waiting for parts?
Druid
[1] How bloody much for SV650 port gaskets!
chipper
06-09-08, 11:45 PM
Thats why you would buy from a breaker or ebay instead of paying full price at a dealer. The headlight for the CBR costs a lot more than £60. The dealer quoted me about £90 if I remember right. £50 for the lower fairing. £30 for the middle and £30 for the upper, £15 for infills. £40 per indicator. Some of the CBR parts are prone to breaking and are pretty weak. You'd think the 3 piece section was a good idea. Its rather a chore. Spares are just as available as any other bike for the Aprilias. Maybe for someone who relies on dealers it would be a nightmare and doesnt know how to find parts cheaper else where. Aprilia did have a problem with stock management but they seem to have improved from what others have said due to needed reorganisation.
Personally I don't buy parts from dealers anymore. Can easily find new old stock or second hand parts in good condition for much less. So the availbility of parts, for any bike these days, is a non issue.
fastdruid
07-09-08, 12:06 AM
No, some people would rather just go to a dealer with a list and go "I want this lot" than spend ages faffing trying to get various bits from various places, fine if you're building up spares, useless if you want it fixed asap. I've been there and done it, took me months to get all the bits I needed, I could have been back on the road in a week if I'd bought from a dealer. Yes it does cost more but aprilia 125 parts are more expensive for new genuine than honda 125 parts and I'm sure the CBR parts could also be got cheaper if you shop around or buy s/h.
Headlight http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/parts/part_10641/ - 59 pounds + VAT.
I agree that the three piece fairing is a faff to take apart but it means far less needs to be replaced if you do have a spill and it's far cheaper to replace even if you do trash the lot.
Aprilia charge more for the sticky out bits purely to make money, this is a large part why insurances costs are higher than for the CBR if you want fully comp.
Ok so we sold our RS50 was 6 years ago now but I know of someone who has spent in total months off the road waiting for Aprilia bits, that was just in the last three years.
S/H is all well and good until you need some obscure nut/bolt/washer/O-Ring. That's when you want it now, not in 5 months.
Druid
piaggio fixed up aprilia parts network...
ordered some obscure pins & bolts, handle bar, new brake lever, new lock-set and a few other odds and ends, and nothing took more than 6 days to get to the dealer...
another time when some div knocked me off the bike and i had a claim against him, and got most of the left side of the bike replaced, it was all sorted within 2 weeks including repairs and that was over christmas/new years.
i will admit they overprice their plastic to make a few extra bob...but then again, it is shaped oh so lovely
and the number of people (including the odd biker when looking from the right hand side where the exhaust is not visible) who thought it was a 600 due to its shape and the size of its forks/tyres made me smile
the other sport 125's are obviously learner bikes and imo arent real sportsbikes, whereas the aprilia is, making it a bucket of fun...the lack of power for such an incredible chassis means you can treat the whole world as a race track...
its not the best learner bike for the reasons stated, but it will be the 1 that keeps a smile on your face the longest...
dirtydog
07-09-08, 07:34 AM
Cat my advice would be rather than spend a couple of grand on a 125 that you may get bored of quite quickly I would use the money to do your restricted or DAS and then get a restricted bike. I did the 125 route before doing my restricted test and it was ok for the first 6 months or so on the 125 but i soon got tired of it
yorkie_chris
07-09-08, 10:06 AM
I'd only buy thr cheapest 125 I could find, my CG was 500 quid, and did over 10k with only a set of tyres and oil (cheap car fleet 10-40) every 1500 miles or so.
Best thing with 125's is they are always in demand and relatively easy to shift once you've finished. This is more the case for 'mainstream' bike such as the Honda & Yam so i'd mebbe consider those more.
If its to be a stop-gap bike then just get something in good nick that you're not going to lose money over - this isnt the case so much with the more exotic 125's and indeed with the Hyosung. I just bought a good nick Varadero, rode around on it for a while while training and then got shut for near enough what i paid for it (that was part ex rate too!)
So as well as the various technical merits of each, consider whats desirable to the next owner and for that reason i'd say the Yam.
vBulletin® , Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.