View Full Version : Anyone out there owned a Golf Mk3 GTi 2.0 16v or VR6 in the past?
Tim in Belgium
03-09-08, 06:15 PM
So have you ever owned a Golf Mk3 GTi 2.0 16 v (the 150 bhp one) or the VR6?
How did you find it:
1. Reliability
2. Performance (acceleration, top speed, roll on).
3. Hamdling (comfort, road holding, feedback, any grin factor?)
4. Fuel Consumption
5. Was it modified at all?
6. Anything specific to look for?
Looking at getting one as a cheap 'Ring wet weather car/bike tow machine/every day hack when I head out to Holland (with its expensive second hand cars).
Thanks.
fizzwheel
03-09-08, 06:35 PM
I had a 1995 16v GTI
1. Reliability was good in general I had two faults on it in the 5 years I owned it. The coil went and it wouldnt start, also the ECU failed on it and it made the car stall for no reason when hot in traffic. The ECU was expensive to replace IIRC £500 + labour.
2. Top speed was about 140 ish. Mine had a performance filter and free flow exhaust though. Top gear roll on wasnt much cop unless you were pulling 4500rpm or more. But bang it down a gear into 4th or 3rd and it used to pull very well. A bit like an IL4 as opposed a V twin I guess ;)
3. Handling, again mine wasnt standard and had been lowered 40mm all round, It handled very well, could really throw it around, it IMHO was one of the best handling cars I owned. However it did have a tendancy to understeer on the throttle in the wet and I also managed to provoke it into lift off oversteer as well, but all very predictable that it was going to go so I used to have fun with it. Comfort was compromised due to the lowering kit, but I'd trade that off for the gain in handling. I never drove a standard one but they always had a reputation for being a bit soft.
4. Fuel consumption, cr*p !!! 22 - 25 mpg around town, if I was good 32 - 33 on the motorway, best I had was around 36 - 37 but that was driving like a granny and I liked to enjoy the performance.
5. Yep, Free flow Cat back stainless exhaust and filter, also modified with MK IV Golf look headlights with bulb upgrade.
6. Not really no, Just make sure it has VAG service history and the cambelts have been done at 30K intervals ( I think ) Also dont run it on cheap tyres it eats them. Mine had budget tyres on it when I bought it and the fronts lasted 10K I swapped to Goodyear Eagles and got 15 - 17K out of the fronts and it handled better especially in the wet. Also it was heavy on pads and disks and it ate a set of front disks in the first 40K it had done before I got it and they are vented on the front and its not cheap to replace them.
Mind had a factory fitted sunroof as optional extra, P reg onwards came with front fogs as standard and air con is an option as it the sunroof.
Boot is a good size and you can carry alot with the back seats down to.
Personally I reckon the 16v is a better buy than a VR6. VR6 has only 25bhp more albeit with more torque, but the motor is heavier so the handling is compromised a bit IMHO. If you go VR6 its much heavier on fuel so you need to factor that in. If you can find a Highline VR6 model with the 2.9 VR6 motor as opposed to the 2.8 it has a few more ponnies and also the spec is better, full leather, heated seats, air con etc.
I put 40K on mine before some tw*t in an Audi A3 drove in the back of it and wrote it off by bending the chassis. I was guttedk, best car I ever owned and I'd buy another one tomorrow if I could find the money to do so.
Theres a specific forum for GTI, google VW Club GTI or something like that it was worth reading last time I loooked.
Edit - Couple of more things I test drove a VR6 before I bought my 16v, the VR6 definately whoops the 16v for top gear roll on so I reckon it'd probably make a better towing car. But ironically the one I test drove I saw in the garage I was due to buy it from with the gearbox on the floor in pieces and I'm sure I read at the time that the VR6 had a weak gearbox but I might be wrong on this. Also the insurance wasnt particularly cheap as IIRC the 16v is group 17.
I had a completely standard mk3 gti (sorry but only 8v) but I'll give my views on it anyway. I loved my car. I put a good 30k on it in a year. eventually I got rid of it due to it starting to cost too much (cost 1200quid 2yrs ago on a L reg)
anyway the car handled well for a standard car. as said very very predictable power off oversteer, used to have a great laugh on wet roundabouts.
pretty practical boot space could fit lots in. speed wise it was good as a fast everyday car. I never felt it was blistering, but was good enough.
advantage back here is you can get lots of cheap parts thru lots of specialists and places like euro car parts.
I would have another in a second!
http://www.golfgti.co.uk
All you need to know is here, good write up by Fizzwheel BTW.
Paul
Tim in Belgium
03-09-08, 08:54 PM
Cheers for the above info guys, I've had a look on the forum above, pretty good, but again it's like asking on an SV forum if you should get an SV ;)
Good to get a subjective opinion.
A little more research required on my part in the VR6 vs 16v option.
If you run a VR6, you will need shares in Opec! They drink fuel like its going out of fashion! A mates stock VR6 driven normaly will on average return somewhere around 18-20mpg. On a run he gets about 30ish if hes gentle. Performance, stonking.
His brother has a modifed VR6, supercharged i believe, thats mind warpingingly fast but returns on a recent track day, 6mpg! Daily, around 12mpg!
Mad. Both great cars though.
have u considered buying a cheaper 8v model but then getting the engine changed over to the mk4 1.8l 20v turbo engine?
I think this can be done quite easily, considered it myself. that way u get a better turbo engine that's good on performance and ok for normal driving.
I want my golf back now. I'm off to look up some gti's on autotrader!
I've had golfs the last 20yrs, I've strayed at times, but always come back.
I currently have a MK3, which in my opinion put on too much weight after the MK2.
Golfs are reliable and the build quality superb, however towards 100,000 miles they are going to have some issues as you'd expect, depending on how well it had been looked after.
The 8v is a nice family car which has enough power to make you smile.
The 16v will make you grin, but you need to rev it, a bit like IL4 bikes. All round it will cost you more money.
The VR6 will give you more power and torque all round, but will cost you even more money as previous posts have indicated.
My preference, if I was to change, would be for the 20V turbo engine.
Some of the diesels are extremely torquey and very quick.
I would always recommend Golfs but make sure it has a good history, there are piles of sh1te out there but some good bargains if you take your time.
Paul
16v 2.0 Mk engine is underpowered, in an overweight chassis. 135bhp or something lame.
Mk3 is the worst golf, go Mk2 old skool, or Mk4 GTi.
VR6 is the engine to have, but don't expect to be blown away, your still looking at 7 secs 0-60 and 140-145 top end. As said, thirsty engine, and although its an ok engine, for a 2.8, its nothing to shout about.
Mk4, TDi130 is a good car, plenty of torque, not all that fast, but good on juice/power compromise. 1.8T is ok, but many have been thrashed, find a good one and it'll be the best lump.
I'd look at the 8v Mk2 GTi. Engines are only just starting to loosen up at 80+k, light weight, good chassis, average engine, but plenty of low down torque.
fizzwheel
04-09-08, 10:36 AM
16v 2.0 Mk engine is underpowered, in an overweight chassis. 135bhp or something lame.
No its not its 150bhp. The 16v from the MKII as also fitted in the Corrado is 137bhp its also a 1.8
Ahhhhh, its 150bhp.....
Dammmmm that must be one heavy car, or awful gearing on it then. I found it to be terrible in terms of performance. Esp when my corsa would sit on the backside of VR6's, and Astra Mk2's would be behined me (also 150bhp), the 2.0 golfs would be no-where, at all...
Mk2 - 2.0 8v
Mk3 - VR6
Mk4 - TDi or 1.8T
Mk5 - 2.0 FSi or FSiT
fizzwheel
04-09-08, 10:46 AM
Yep the MkIII is heavy, the thing is with 16v MKIII is that you need to stir the gears to get the best from it as its a bit flat below 4500rpm. Spin it up above that and you have a lot of fun with.
It was a critiscm of them when they came out that they were heavier and lacked power. IIRC though it isnt a huge amount heavier than the MKII is but I might be wrong on that.
But mine wasnt standard which maybe accounts for some of my perception of it...
Thats not to say Mk3 can't be made to look stunning with the right purchases ;)
Not as heavy as the Mk4! That was even worse.
The Mk5 however, and the forthcoming Mk6 golfs are about the same wieght as the Mk2's apprently!
Nahhhh, NO chance. Too much saftey gubbins. Think a Mk2 is just over a tonne. To compare that, our astra, the golf rival, weighs 1400kg!! Fatttttyyyyyyy....
Mk4 was heavier than Mk3, but got much better engines, that didn't bankrupt kuwait every time you nailed it (until you remapped them with some other goodies anyway ;) )
This will make you moist though. Sound up please :D
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lUpPLnorAaE
Twin VR6 engines, both turbo'd charged. 700+bhp. Not amazingly fast, but that noise, ooooooooooooo.
Ooooo, now with nitrous....
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=g5RYft9Feak&feature=related
And TG episode...
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wPBgizjbhD4&feature=related
The VR6 is daft on fuel mate, I know you have too much money but I wouldnt waste it.
I know its sacrilege to mention it but have you thought about getting a performance diesel? If Audi can produce one to win the Le Mans Im sure theres a few tasty options which are also a little easier on the pocket.
Could always get a Diesel superchipped to help it along.
the forthcoming Mk6 golfs are about the same wieght as the Mk2's apprently!
Maybe same power to weight ratio, but not the same weight.
Tim in Belgium
05-09-08, 07:12 AM
Rob,
Diesels get taxed at 3 times the rate in Holland! About 200-300 euros per 3 months!! As I'll be cycling to work I don't think I'll be doing enough car miles to justify it, hence looking at performance petrol hatches. I also considered the Seat Ibiza 2.0 16v GTi (same engine and front suspension), but as there are fewer of them about they cost more than the golf.
Also I don't want the hassle of engine transplants, turbo in a mk2/3 etc, just want to buy and drive initially, followed by some light brake and suspension work.
Rob,
Diesels get taxed at 3 times the rate in Holland! About 200-300 euros per 3 months!! As I'll be cycling to work I don't think I'll be doing enough car miles to justify it, hence looking at performance petrol hatches. I also considered the Seat Ibiza 2.0 16v GTi (same engine and front suspension), but as there are fewer of them about they cost more than the golf.
Also I don't want the hassle of engine transplants, turbo in a mk2/3 etc, just want to buy and drive initially, followed by some light brake and suspension work.
Christ, we think we have it bad here! How about an old A3 1.8T? Or even a Volks Corrado? Alternatively theres the Honda VTI Civic or Pug 306 GTI-6
What about something fun and RWD like an E30 BMW or a Mazda MX5?
Tim in Belgium
05-09-08, 10:54 AM
The MX5 isn't so good for carrying surfboards, and the E30 may be a bit too tail happy in the wet at the 'Ring, and armco costs there!
The MX5 isn't so good for carrying surfboards, and the E30 may be a bit too tail happy in the wet at the 'Ring, and armco costs there!
Good point - I have an MX5 and its no good at carrying anything!
Someone I know crashed his E30 at the 'ring and paid £1500 for the privelidge so probably a wise move to get a scrabbly-FWD car if you plan to go regularly...
Gazza77
05-09-08, 11:17 AM
The MX5 isn't so good for carrying surfboards, and the E30 may be a bit too tail happy in the wet at the 'Ring, and armco costs there!
Rubbish. I have an MX5 and can get loads in! Put the roof down, you will easily fit a surfboard in! ;)
Rubbish. I have an MX5 and can get loads in! Put the roof down, you will easily fit a surfboard in! ;)
Typical MX5 owner response! lol
Apart from surfboards I find I can more in if I have the roof up as you can use the shelf the folded roof sits on :)
Gazza77
05-09-08, 11:39 AM
Typical MX5 owner response! lol
Apart from surfboards I find I can more in if I have the roof up as you can use the shelf the folded roof sits on :)
That is true in both cases lol
I have been told that you can get a washing machine or tumble drier on the passenger seat with the roof down, never tried yet mind.
Back on topic - what about a 106 or 306 Rallye? Nice and lightweight - although the 106 might a bit underpowered for the 'Ring...
Ive got an MX5 for sale. Anyone want to buy it?
306 rallye is a good shout skip. Think 106 would be a bit small but the 306 gets good reviews for handling and power.
I was gonna mention E36 (PH favourite) but then thought that it was a Hatch that was required.
What about MG? Silly prices going for something like a ZT-T. Serious load lugging space and decent power.
Back on topic - what about a 106 or 306 Rallye? Nice and lightweight - although the 106 might a bit underpowered for the 'Ring...
Only down the straights. Hate to say it, but the 106GTI is a belter of a car (and the saxo 16v too, exactly the same cars).
I know many hot hatch owners taking it to the big boys out there. ;)
fizzwheel
05-09-08, 12:02 PM
Every 306 I've been in has made me feel like its been built from baked bean cans and tin foil, felt cheap and nasty comapred to the Golf which IMHO has a much more quality feel to it. Also isnt the Rallye stripped out in terms of toys. i.e no leccy windows etc etc. Personally If I was using it for a tow car all the way to germany I'd want some mod cons as well.
Older shape Civic 1.6 16v Vtec (160bhp model)?
Or even Breadvan Vtec? Slated by all, but very good cars for hooning around. Just not he best road drive due to stupid power delivery (On the road you want instant power, of which the vtec units dont provide :lol: )
Older shape Civic 1.6 16v Vtec (160bhp model)?
Or even Breadvan Vtec? Slated by all, but very good cars for hooning around. Just not he best road drive due to stupid power delivery (On the road you want instant power, of which the vtec units dont provide :lol: )
What about MG? Silly prices going for something like a ZT-T. Serious load lugging space and decent power.
A friend of mine is selling a dark blue metallic 52 plate ZT-T with 39k and FSH for £3k! Total bargain barnstormer for the money!
Tim in Belgium
05-09-08, 05:26 PM
Yeah, I've been thinking of the '306 as well (the GTi 16v, which has some luxury), just there are less of them in Holland, and from what I've read from fellow 'Ringers take a bit of caring for. I used to love the 309 GTi I once had. Plus if I break a golf in Germany it should be easy to get bits for/fix!
As for bigger heavier bahn stormers:
a)Not so much fun in the wet
b)The dutch tax cars on weight too, hence looking for a small(ish) hatch.
Thanks for the suggestions, I'm always open to curve ball suggestions!
I had a vento VR6 for about 4 years loved it to bits but it cost me a bloody fortune in maintenance as well as fuel. Ok it was 6 years old when I bought it and over 10 when I sold it but oooooh sooooo much fun.
I had it chipped when I first got it (not a great benefit as its normally aspirated) improved fuel econ slightly and smoothed out the power delivery slightly. A worthwhile mod all the same
Tyres lasted about 5000 miles if I was lucky (I always used Bridgestone pole-position @ about £120 a corner) fronts especially due to the weight of the motor.
Previous owner had put lowering springs on standard dampers which was flippin awful so I fitted a set of coil overs which were fantastic.
The car had 90,000ish when I bought it and about 130,000ish when I got rid. It was burning oil which I found out that higher mileage ones have a tendancy to do.
I think the longer wheelbase of the vento suited the handling better than the shorter golf.
All in all huge amounts of fun, be careful of higher mileage models, but I would have another if I could afford it.
Tim in Belgium
06-09-08, 08:20 AM
No!
Alfa? You have to love it mind, as itll no doubt be a pit for money
Im thinking about a 306 or Civic if I can get rid of the 5.
Alternatively, how about an FTO or a Gallant?
Had a mk3 golf driver (1.8i 8v) I know it's not what your looking for but as fizzwheel says mine needed a new coil pack also which I think is quite common (and fairly expensive). I am not sure what the engine codes are but I have been told that mk3 16v's the best ones to get share the same engine codes as the ones they fitted to the Passat as these units are supposedly indestructable (this is only what I have been told so don't take my word for it).
Tim in Belgium
06-09-08, 09:45 AM
Yeah the 2 litre 16v (code ABF) is meant to be a pretty solid motor, one guy had fitted one to his Mk2 golf and has done countless laps of the Nurburgring and has never had an engine problem. I'd heard about the coil pack issue, but thought that failure was more common on the 20v motors (Mk4, TT etc).
How's the sale of the 5 going Rob, many sniffs?
Had a look on the dutch autotrader and very few cooking/hot civics, most have the 1.5 engine :(
And as for the Alfa, I'd love a 75, but can see it being a bit of a money pit, but one idea I may revisit! The V6 pushes out almost 200bhp.
Yeah the 2 litre 16v (code ABF) is meant to be a pretty solid motor, one guy had fitted one to his Mk2 golf and has done countless laps of the Nurburgring and has never had an engine problem. I'd heard about the coil pack issue, but thought that failure was more common on the 20v motors (Mk4, TT etc).
How's the sale of the 5 going Rob, many sniffs?
Had a look on the dutch autotrader and very few cooking/hot civics, most have the 1.5 engine :(
And as for the Alfa, I'd love a 75, but can see it being a bit of a money pit, but one idea I may revisit! The V6 pushes out almost 200bhp.
Been checking out vw engine codes and think I may have missinformed you. Think it's the 9A block that was fitted to the passat and the Corrado 16v (not the golf) that I was told about as this is a short block and the ABF is a tall block. Now there's a thought have you considered a Corrado. And yes I agree the Alfa 75's I've always liked but think you'd be right in calling it a money pit, sound fantastic though.
Tim in Belgium
06-09-08, 06:13 PM
Corrados again are a bit over priced in Holland - 5k euro which is a tad much for a rebodied Mk2 golf, even if it looks nice ;)
svdemon
06-09-08, 06:26 PM
Corrado is not a rebodied Mk2 Golf. And there never was a 2.9 Mk3 Golf
Tim in Belgium
06-09-08, 06:36 PM
I thought the Corrado used the same floorpan as the golf, admittedly built by Karmann, but after a littlwe wiki ing I've discovered front platform is golf and rear is passat and that I was wrong, great to learn something new!
fizzwheel
06-09-08, 06:40 PM
And there never was a 2.9 Mk3 Golf
My bad I got muddled up with the Corrado...
fizzwheel
07-09-08, 10:48 AM
damn you Tim, I've been looking on Autotrader at getting another Golf and we've just gone back to only having one car.
:D
Corrados again are a bit over priced in Holland - 5k euro which is a tad much for a rebodied Mk2 golf, even if it looks nice ;)
Aye but if you get a VR6 or more specifically a storm model you will lose next to nowt in depreciation as they are becoming collectable, and yes your right they are half golf ,half passat and supposedly one of the best handling front drive cars ever.
Tim in Belgium
07-09-08, 11:29 AM
I don't fancy towing and 'Ringing a collectors car, with many 'Ring trips next year there is always the possibility of bending the car (through my faultor someone else's), hence why I'm wanting to go mainstream. So that's another reason why I haven't gone down the Corrado route.
The beauty with the VWs is that loads of people have modded the suspension and brakes before, so know what works and what doesn't. Plus spares are easy to get and loads of garages know how to work on them in Holland/Germany.
What about an 8v Golf Tim? Less power but you dont need to rev them so hard to get the performance...
Tim in Belgium
07-09-08, 11:36 AM
But revving on track is half the fun, and 115 vs 150 bhp is a bit of a difference! Not so bothered about performance on the road, where the 8v may be more tractable. Also there doesn't seem that much in it price wise.
Just drawing up my future shopping list:
Sports suspension with 30-40 mm drop (springs and dampers)
Uprated pads & Discs
ARBs
Strut braces
Some sticky tyres (requiring 15" tims for track use)
And remove the rear seats before heading to the 'Ring!
Fair comment there Tim! Sounds like you already know what you want and what you want to do to it ;)
Well if you put it like that then yes I guess your better of with the golf. BTW apparantly the 2 litre 16v goes better if you replace the cylinder head for a mk2 1.8 16v head for some reason. Also don't drop the suspension to far or you'll be wearing the inside of your tyres out fast as it affects the camber angle, and the lower front strut brace is the more effective one to go for.
Tim in Belgium
07-09-08, 11:46 AM
Good to know about the head thing, something to look into in the future..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtGcMzPO1_4 apologies if this has been posted but thought you might be interested to see a FAST mk3 on the track.
Tim in Belgium
13-09-08, 07:30 PM
Well after more research I'm thinking of heading VR6 golf, similar money and I can afford the fuel, so what the heck!
And as the OBD2s push out almost 200 bhp I think it should be fine on the uphill sections at the 'Ring ;)
Have you sold the Legacy yet?
Tim in Belgium
15-09-08, 04:17 PM
Nooo, as I mentioned in Smiths today ;)
Just borrowed my dad's big MG estate whilst the MoT is being done, handles well, solid but not that adjustable being big, heavy and FWD. Also a little underpowered with a turbo diesel, not like the old scooby for overtaking, takes ages to get to 3 figures :-dd
Made me realise my next car has to have some power, so VR6 it is..
gettin2dizzy
15-09-08, 07:28 PM
Get a corrado ;)
Tim in Belgium
15-09-08, 08:49 PM
Too expensive compared to a VR6 golf....(& see post 49 ;) )
Got a scooby as well (03 impreza wrx). Trouble is anything else this side of a porsche is going to feel slow in comparison.
Tim in Belgium
16-09-08, 03:13 PM
Yep, I realise that it won't be as quick as the Scooby, although 280 bhp /1480 kg = 189 bhp/tonne for the Scooby.
190 bhp(for the later OBD2 version)/1200 kg = 162 bhp/tonne for a VR6...... oh yea, I'll notice the difference but it's not mahoosive. And no turbo(s) to get boosting.
Yeah the turbo really kicks ar53 especially in the lower gears, when we first got the scooby it felt awesome but then you get used to them and they feel fairly tame. I thought it was starting to lack power but let my brother have a go and he came back grinning and said it was in a different league to his car (seat Leon Cupra, although not the R version)
Tim in Belgium
16-09-08, 04:59 PM
The legacy is twin turbo, which means lots of fun above 4.5k, and just a nice normal engine 1.5-4k.
PS it'll soon be for sale (just waiting for a new windscreen...)
vBulletin® , Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.