BMC Race RS / Rejetting question.

[Dappa D]

hi all...I have searched and apologies i know this has been covered to death put couldnt find exactly what im looking for.....

I Have the rs filter as said in title....gonna rejet to suit...

my question is what size jets should i use...152 or 160 (or something else?)

ill be using mikuni's...

i have a curvy 2000 sv650s X reg with the only mod being a stainless viper slip on end can.

if i buy the 152.5's and they are not spot on after testing (thanks to boo86 for how to test and lots of other info) will it cause any damage to engine (they should be about right) if i ride bike for a week like this till i have time to fit the 160's??

ill also be raising tank by 10mm (DIY style) and removing foam under tank...

thanks

Dappa D:p

[yorkie_chris]

No idea what jets really as you have standard pipe.

Mine is currently still a little lean with micron pipe, stubby can and same filter as yours. That's with 162.5 mains.

To make a slightly educated guess at your main jet size... 155.

[Dappa D]

cheers chris

[Dappa D]

ordered the 160's didnt have any 155's so gonna try these and see how we go!

[Dangerous Dave]

What you got exhaust and engine wise?

Going by you other thread you have the race version, the 'RS' has a small mesh filter in the base too.

:crutches: :smt013

[northwind]

What mesh filter? Or rather, where is it?

[Dangerous Dave]

What mesh filter? Or rather, where is it?
Has a little bit of the filter in the centre of the base, about 50p size. I'll see if I have any images, but that will be tomorrow at the earliest.

[northwind]

Hmm, neither of my RSs have that.

[Dappa D]

Hi DD..good to have ya back mate...sorry to hear about the down...

as for the filter..well...the base is solid...no holes/50p size things with mess its pure solid....the top is wide open big oval hole going right back to the mess...and the label on the box says FM205/10RS......

ive orderd 160 jets gonna put that in as a starting point and see how it goes...i expect it wont be spot on but gonna have a try slowly slowly to get there as JHS where asking £360 i think it was...or £260;...i forget but out of my price range anywhoo....i know id be paying for them to get it spot on and maybe this is something i could do when a bit more cash rich lol....

exhaust = standard pipes with a SS Viper end can...not sure of the model.
Engine = Standard 650, no mods...
2 extra teeth on the rear sprocket (dont think this matters as far as this is concerned)

thats pretty much it fella

[boo86]

I've only ever seen bmc road and race, the race is called race rs. I've never seen an RS despite searching ! It's not on the website. Do they only sell to race teams or something ? I've got an ACU licence somaybe I could get 1 or 2 if some-one else wants one. Any body got any pics ?

[boo86]

I've only ever seen bmc road and race, the race is called race rs. I've never seen an RS despite searching ! It's not on the website. Do they only sell to race teams or something ? I've got an ACU licence somaybe I could get 1 or 2 if some-one else wants one. Any body got any pics ?

[northwind]

JHS sells them, they're a bit pricey but that's the easiest way. They used to refuse to sell them seperately, only with their £150 jet kit, but when I needed one I just phoned up and told them I had the kit already but the filter was knackered, and they sent me a new one. Honesty never prospers!

[Dappa D]

i did ring jhs and said " my uncle gave me a rs bmc filter but is on hols now..i understand its only you guys that sell them....could you advise on a good size jet to start with...."

reply was....."let me stop you there....it doesnt work like that...we only supply it with jets..."

me...."how much for you guys to sort it then"...

reply..."£360 (might have been £260"...)

me.."click...beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeep"

although seeing as what Dangerous Dave has said ( who i personally regard as the top boy on said topic)....i may not have the rs version at all and could possibly be the race....(not saying i disregard anyone else's knowleage or that DD is always right!!!)...(although DD if u read this im sure you are!!)...ive had a liquid lunch...can u tell??

ive ordered 160 mikunis....will let ya know how i get on when they come

[Dangerous Dave]

Hmm, neither of my RSs have that.
Then you do not have an 'RS'. The race filter is labelled RS as a reference number, doesn't mean it is the 'RS'. Think it is labelled 'SP' actually, can't remember off the top of my head and I'm too bloody sore to pop the tank up to have a good look.

I've only ever seen bmc road and race, the race is called race rs. I've never seen an RS despite searching ! It's not on the website.
Nolonger available, only a small batch were sold/made as the Road and Race versions were the most commonly bought due to tuning limitations in most of the SV race series

[boo86]

wow, this is awesome it's like looking for the holy grail of filters. I've got a road which I've scooped all the top out of to emulate a bmc race, strangly I did this before I even knew what a race looked like. I just did it as I thought it would flow better. It looks exactly the same.
Is the filter membrane the same density ? Will my home made race work just as well as a race ? I've melted the edges with a soldering iron to get it all smoooth !

[Dappa D]

Hi DD....oach with the brocken rib by the way...not a lot they can do about that IIRC bar lots of painkillers....

from what you have said would look like I have the Race..there is no snorkel so its not the road (and the warrenty card says not for road use also)....

ive bought some tap washers today to raise the tank 10mm...going to rip the foam out from under the tank also.

do you have a recommendation on what size mikunis to use? i have ordered 160 anyway as a starting point but not been delivered yet....as said b4 i have standard engine (2000 sv650) standard pipes with ss viper end can.

cheers fella

[yorkie_chris]

160 too big IMO for standard pipes

[Dappa D]

yea im starting to think that...intersted in what DD says before i order any other size tho

[Dangerous Dave]

Is the filter membrane the same density ?
I believe there is a slight difference in density.

Hi DD....oach with the brocken rib by the way...not a lot they can do about that IIRC bar lots of painkillers....
your right, they are going to remove the bent plate that is attached to help relieve the pressure on my chest.

160 too big IMO for standard pipes
Yeah, you may want to go a little smaller but all engines run differently.

[Spoon]

A word of warning - swapping jets becomes somehow masochistically addictive - if you are anything like me your going to get to know your carbs very well over the next few weeks. The hours I've wasted looking for the perfect jet sizes :-)

The other day I found myself swapping jets in the work car park at lunch time simply because the mrs has got fed up with me messing about with the bike at home!

[northwind]

Then you do not have an 'RS'. The race filter is labelled RS as a reference number, doesn't mean it is the 'RS'. Think it is labelled 'SP' actually, can't remember off the top of my head and I'm too bloody sore to pop the tank up to have a good look.


So, when I bought this RS from JHS as an RS (and it's not a Race- simple proof, it runs 180 mains, a BMC Race would be disgustingly rich with this), what do you think they sold me? The first one was straight from a JHS stage 2 kit. It's also the same as the one Factory Pro sell (as the RS)

[Spoon]

My supposed RS doesn't have a hole in the bottom of the filter either - just a completely open top - this was bought new from JHS where I specifically asked whether it was an RS or not (and they said it was). Maybe the design has changed over the years?

[yorkie_chris]

Same here, not particularly sure about what it is exactly, came from svrash and he reckoned it to be the RS... running 160 mikunis and still a little bit lean at that.

[northwind]

I'm wondering if there's yet another BMC out there, DD mentioned it being marked SP, which none of the RS filters I've seen has been. Also that it's no longer available, which the RS is. So maybe htis is just another variant. It's not really possible to confuse the Race and RS.

[yorkie_chris]

How so? The one I've got is marked 205/10 or something like, it's a totally open top filter.

[northwind]

Yep, if it's open top it's an RS, simple as that, the Race is partially closed.

[yorkie_chris]

Is DD on about the SP with a mesh filter in the base or something?

I was thinking is it possible to gut part of another filter and make the base into flowing area with a little silicon...

[northwind]

Yeah, that's what I'm wondering. Obviously he's got more important stuff to worry about just now, I'll need to ask him when he's feeling better, but he's definately not describing a Race RS.

[boo86]

bmc race from jhs web site. I've cut the topout of my road to mimick this as closely as possible. I got a road in the bike when I bought it. As far as I can see they all have the same part number. 205/10.

Any body ever ran no filter or just some mesh over the hole in the air box ? According to mini twin rules you must run a standard air box but it doesn't say there must be a filter in it.
What jets would that run !?

[yorkie_chris]

Really big ones. HTH :-P

Dunno how it'd run, you might have problems same as running pod filters where you need to mess with air jets and stuff

[Dangerous Dave]

Hello, it seems I have got confused and then confused everybody else... sorry.

BMC filters;

Road - The one to use with slip-ons and basic full systems (Laser and Micron)
Race - Same design as the road but has a free flowing filter (ideal for freer flowing systems).
Race RS - Is a de-snorkled BMC Race (for mildly tuned engines)
Race SP - Is a BMC RS with a free flowing filter and a filter in the base (this is the nolonger available one).

I have a 'BMC SP' in the SV800 and a 'BMC RS' in the SV650.

http://forums.sv650.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2163&d=1220858106 (http://forums.sv650.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2163&d=1220858106)

The above filter is the BMC RS, there are only two official dealers in the world for this filter, JHS Racing and BMC directly. If you have purchased it from anywhere else that is fine, but it came from one of these two places originally.

PS. I'm back....

[boo86]

So Dave is it possible the filter I got with my race bike (which I assumed was a street as it had a 45mm inlet hole) could be actually a race ? I've noticed they are all embosed with 205/10 so the code seems to be non-specific. I'm running 152.5 mains and it fuels fine.

[Dappa D]

DD.....good to have ya knowledgeable self back properly mr!!...

got quite confused the other day there is a pretender in out ranks also going by the name dangerousdave.....lol....

anyways...right then I defo have the BMC RS in this case

have ordered various size jets (152.5, 155, 175.2, 160)..STILL not arrived though...

not a tuned engine and only has a slip on...so will jet as best i can and plan..over time....to do more to the engine / tuning...

Boo...sounds like it doesnt it..a race originally and now desnorkled closer to an RS....interesting stuff!!

i wish my jets would hurry up........

[boo86]

"I have a 'BMC SP' in the SV800 and a 'BMC RS' in the SV650."

Dave, what size jets do them beasts take ? 109 bhp must need near the top end of available. Are they still running standard carbs ?

cheers, Boo

[Dappa D]

I had not used flea bay for ages...just called the woman..very helpful....I had my old address on my email postal thingy...grrrrrrr

anywhoo ordered more now and should be dispatched today to my correct address!! duh!!!....

[boo86]

she got me mine on next day delivery. You should be good to sort it out tomorrow. It sounds like your filter and mine are pretty similar, just by 2 different routes to get there. Mine runs 152.5s so it'll be interesting to see what yours runs best on. I'm stuck for testing mine as it's not road lagel, see left <-- so the only way I can test different jets is track days, race days or dyno time. All of which cost muchos dollar !!

[Dappa D]

yep....ive decided im going to start on the 152.5....test....

then the 155...test....she not got 157.5's so will have to try 160 if the first 2 arnt right,,,,

im glad they didnt come straight away as ive been reading the info u sent me about how to test etc....

read it about 5 times now and its all starting to make perfect sense....

looking forward to getting it done at the weekend and will let u know....

[Dangerous Dave]

So Dave is it possible the filter I got with my race bike (which I assumed was a street as it had a 45mm inlet hole) could be actually a race?
The Road and Race have the same inlet hole diameter in the top, are there any other markings on the filter? If not then I would say this is a Road.

I've noticed they are all embosed with 205/10 so the code seems to be non-specific.
205/10 is the mould reference, i.e. Curvy SV.

there is a pretender in out ranks also going by the name dangerousdave...
I have noticed....

[boo86]

this is how it looks see pic. I was checking my plugs last night and I think it may be running a touch lean with the 152.5 mikuni's.

I'll post pics of them in a new thread.

[Dappa D]

this is how it looks see pic. I was checking my plugs last night and I think it may be running a touch lean with the 152.5 mikuni's.

I'll post pics of them in a new thread.

yep thats pretty much exactly the same as my rs...just mines neater ;)!!

so unless there is different material used on the mesh stuff looks like your pretty much running an RS all but in name!

ill take a pic when i rejet at the weekend

[Dappa D]

p.s...im getting excited now....

this weekend....fit BMC RS filter....rejet....raise tank...defoam...

also cut my tailtidy template out last week and been doing a coat of paint when i get a spare 5 mins so hopefully gonna fit that the weekend also,,,

[yorkie_chris]

Prepare for dissappointment and frustration.

[Dappa D]

Prepare for dissappointment and frustration.

hi yc....

frustration....yes i can see this coming no doubt!!!

but disapointment??...im hoping not to be disapointed by the end result....im under no illusions im aware its not going to be a huge power difference...id be happy just with the nicer (depending on your view) induction noise....for now.......

[yorkie_chris]

Nah was an excessively cynical remark, that. Oh you'll get induction noise :smt096... take the foam out from under the tank.

[Dappa D]

yep will be doing.....

and on monday when im ranting about my own stupidy and why did i ever think i could do this on my own and how disapointed i am and how I now have no transport..

you can say...Told Ya So!!!! haha...

[boo86]

mine makes at 71+ rwhp so you can get decent gains. It's definatly worth while.
i've never ever left anything standard in my life. Engines ar for fiddleing with. That's at least half the fun !!

[Dangerous Dave]

this is how it looks see pic.
http://forums.sv650.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2178&d=1221040723 (http://forums.sv650.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2178&d=1221040723)
That is either a Road or a Race with a dodgy home made de-snorkle, first guess is its a Road.

[boo86]

yeah I de-snorkeled it my self.
It used to have a 45mm inlet hole, which I enlarged as much as I could. With a kitchen knife lol. I melted the inlet with a soldering iron to aid flow ! It does the job.

[northwind]

so unless there is different material used on the mesh stuff looks like your pretty much running an RS all but in name!


The filter element's different.

Oh aye, the stock filter gives results that aren't a kick in the bum off being as good as the RS- I a/b'd them a while back and the fuelling was fluffy- definately rich- but it wasn't terrible, and I never came across any problems I could put down to turbulence or whatever else people say this causes. Apparently, though I've not tested this, it flows more air than a desnorkelled K&N.

[yorkie_chris]

Those people who say you need a snorkel to create turbulence and mix the gas ... but removing it will create turbulence that will hurt power!:rolleyes:

Plenty experts in every local pub hehehe

[boo86]

But the bmc race has no snorkel. The bike runs real nice. It's a good set up. But you allways wonder if it could be better. It's a 'I've got spanners therefore must use them.' sinario.

[Dangerous Dave]

But the bmc race has no snorkel.
The Race does, the Race RS doesn't. Going by your previous picture I would say you have a de-snorkled Road filter...

Road - The one to use with slip-ons and basic full systems (Laser and Micron)
Race - Same design as the road but has a free flowing filter membrane (ideal for freer flowing systems).
Race RS - Is a de-snorkled BMC Race (for mildly tuned engines)
Race SP - Is a BMC RS with a free flowing filter membrane and a filter in the base (nolonger available).

[yorkie_chris]

Dave why would you say that the more restrictive systems need a more restrictive filter?

[Dappa D]

Hi Guys,

rather than start a new thread thought id just ask on here as u have all done it.....

I did search but search doesnt like me today!!

the three screws on each of the float bowls (chambers? are they known by a few names?) I read they can be a PITA to remove..cheeselike...

rather than get to them and find out is there something i can get like grip doctor to help remove them (dont even know if grip doctor exits just think i remember reading something abt it ages ago)...

thanks in advance

Dappa D

[boo86]

as long as the driver is the right size you'll be fine. some (a lot)people use phillips drivers that are too small and that rounds the middle out. Failing that some small mole grips ( locking pliers) will work.
Mine were real tight but a large driver and a big push got them out. Push in and turn. 70% of your effort should be pushing in and 30% effort turning.
Oh and go anti-clockwise. That's allways a good start.

[Dappa D]

cool cheers mate

[Spoon]

Yup - the float bowl and choke plunger screws on mine were a nightmare to get out. Ended up using an impact driver on most of them and a dremel (to create a rut for a big flat head screwdriver) and impact driver on the really bad ones.

I would strongly recommend replacing the whole lot with allen headed bolts - makes future access (which there will be - you'll never get it perfect first time) so much easier.

[skyline]

This is a fantastic thread, it's something I'm planning to do in the next few months -need to check how much my insurance is going to be with the mods when it's due first tho then get looking on ebay for cheap racing headers!

I'm looking to take the foam lining out from under the tank sooner tho - just to get that induction noise...what's a good way to get rid of it as I've heard it's a pig to remove - and also to stop bits of leftover foam dropping into the carbs after...

Cheers people :D

[Dappa D]

Yup - the float bowl and choke plunger screws on mine were a nightmare to get out. Ended up using an impact driver on most of them and a dremel (to create a rut for a big flat head screwdriver) and impact driver on the really bad ones.

I would strongly recommend replacing the whole lot with allen headed bolts - makes future access (which there will be - you'll never get it perfect first time) so much easier.

do u know the dimensions etc of them mate so i can get some this afternoon rather than waiting till my bikes in peices..as im there i might as well change them..do halfrauds or B&Q sell them..or maybe screwfix do you know??....

skyline i know if you put in foam in the search there is info on best ways to remove it mate....but if someone wants to answer feel free as iv forgoten too!! lol

[boo86]

DappaD

I've just sent you a michro fishe parts list. the screws will be on there

[boo86]

I've just checked. It just says 'screw' so no help at all.
Doh !

[yorkie_chris]

M4x10 IIRC ... will check, don't bother with the suzuki ones, get stainless allen bolts

[northwind]

M5 I think, x 10. I just go straight to the impact driver, they're soft screws and they've been in there for at least 6 years probably untouched, so they can be troublesome. The hardest part of rejetting my bike for the first time was getting the damn cover off.

[Dangerous Dave]

I'm looking to take the foam lining out from under the tank sooner tho - just to get that induction noise...what's a good way to get rid of it as I've heard it's a pig to remove - and also to stop bits of leftover foam dropping into the carbs after...
Won't drop into the the carbs unless the airbox is off which isn't required to the foam. Get an old towel and lay it over the airbox/bike, peel the foam off and wipe any sticky residue away with WD40.

Dead easy....

[skyline]

Nice one, cheers! I'll do a search as well.

All the best with the rejetting DappaD!

:D

[Spoon]

Yup - I'm almost certain (can check when I get home) that the float bowl and choke plunger screws are m5x10

[Dappa D]

excellent!! thanks all, the time is almost here!! 'spose i should do a "family" thing saturday, then sunday get spannering....

if someone could confirm the M5x10 that would be great.....if not a just get both M4 and M5 to make sure....

sorry to be ignorant...but can I get these at a general store such as B&Q etc??

Thanks again

[yorkie_chris]

A local engineers merchants is probably a better bet.

[Dappa D]

well that surprised me....

just called an engineers merchants in bristol (yell.com)

I explained what i wanted them for.. asked if i wanted countersunk, button heads or socket heads (im guessing socket heads?)

then after all that he was talking about grades point this and point that?..then saying about tolerances...then suggested i go to suzuki and get a new set of the original screws...(which clearly isnt what i want to do lol) hhmmm


edit...just called another one (only 2 come up in bristol on yell.com)...and simply asked for m5x10 stainless allen bolts...none in stock...asked m4x10..none in stock....grrrrr!!!

[yorkie_chris]

Socket heads ... you're better off going there and showing the screws ... you want bog standard metric screws for a non-critical area. Ring another place, sounds like they don't want your business!

[boo86]

B and Q are a bunch of Nazis !!
these are perfect in fact I'm going to order some my self

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/M4-x-10-Button-Head-Socket-Screws_W0QQitemZ170158385676QQcmdZViewItem?hash=it em170158385676&_trkparms=72%3A1090%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C 240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

[yorkie_chris]

P.s I can't remember they are M4. Will check ... give me 5 minutes.

[yorkie_chris]

tis m5 by 10

[Dappa D]

chris...nice one mate for confirming that....

boo....really wanna get this done the weekend so dont wanna rely on royal mail gettin them to me tomorrow (STILL waiting for my jets, spoke to the woman she assures me they will be here saturdays post...bloody better be!!)

bit further away than i wanted but just spoke to GR Fasteners in Avonmouth got them in stock 5x10 socket head allen bolts...£1 for 6...job done!!

please let my jets be here.........

[Dappa D]

saturday morning...post just came...have 2 x 152.5 jets and 2 x 155 jets, no 160's yet but happy days can crack on tomorrow!...got those allen bolts yesterday aswell ...

right then...lets go feed the ducks!!!

[Dangerous Dave]

Good luck and happy spannering for tomorrow....

[Dappa D]

cheers DD...feeling a little more confident now..

had a spare hour after feeding the ducks! so defoamed the tank..its all gone now...so while i was there i popped the air filter housing off and just had a good look round to familiarise myself with it and think i should be ok

[skyline]

Hey Dappa D,

Just been snooping around the internet and found this! It's a PDF download about rejetting 99 - 02 sv's. It's from an Australian forum but looking at the AUS stock carb specs they seem pretty similar to UK ones. A bit last minute but hope it'll help. All the best for the spannering tomorrrow!

http://http://members.optusnet.com.au/sv650-k2/Rejetting_Notes.pdf

[Dappa D]

skyline..linky no worky!!!!

thanks tho mate, ive got LOADS of stuff now tho (probably got that too!) feels like all ive been doin this week is reading abt rejetting!!!

[skyline]

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sv650-k2/Rejetting_Notes.pdf

Oop sorry, try that one

[yorkie_chris]

http://www.geocities.com/catpoopman/sv650_rejet.html

try here too

[Dappa D]

done!

http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?p=1624215#post1624215