View Full Version : Arc Welding Anyone?
squirrel_hunter
13-09-08, 05:30 PM
As I couldn't make any rideouts this morning due to work commitments I was feeling a little down. But some kind sole left a copy of Aldi's latest catalog on my desk so I had a quick flick through and took a little detour on the way home to cheer myself up.
So for 40 English pounds I now own this Arc Welder...
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s216/squirrel_hunters_photos/13092008066.jpg
Bargain. I had a quick look around and £40 is a good price for this bit of kit. Unfortunately for some reason it doesn't have a plug attached so I'll pick one up in a couple of days and fire it up. Which then leads nicely to my next question; how do you weld?
As a little footnote it quite heavy and its a fairly bulky box. I got a few odd looks and laughs riding home like this...
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s216/squirrel_hunters_photos/13092008065.jpg
(Oh and before anyone says, yes it needs a clean. But I believe in riding not washing, and anyway I gave it a bath before I put it away)
xXBADGERXx
13-09-08, 05:44 PM
Well welding is all about getting the right temperature/amps setting for the thickness and material you are welding , once that is established you need a good clean surface to weld against , no rust or paint .
Then you earth what you are welding , put the gloves and mask on , and the end of the rod is tapped onto what you are welding and drawn back about 2mm , if it sputters you may be too far back or not enough amps . You then need to build a small pool of weld without burning a hole in your work and run that weld/fillet along the line of the join , that`s it in a nutshell :D
Oh and sometimes it helps to have the welding rod at an angle so you can see what you are welding , always use the mask and do not weld with closed eyes and such without a mask , you can get arch eye and it HURTS .
northwind
13-09-08, 05:56 PM
Cor. I could go for one of those, even if it's mince, I can't weld so that's no disadvantage :D
xXBADGERXx
13-09-08, 05:58 PM
Get yourselves some nice thick bits of metal to practice on , chamfer the edges heavily of the 2 parts you want to weld and give it a go , don`t use something too thin as you`ll blow holes in it and get fed up , start chunky and perfect your art . A good weld will look like molten Lava that has cooled , a bad weld will look like the bottom of a birds cage :D
Interceptor
13-09-08, 06:13 PM
What are you going to weld with it?
Arc welders are fine for farmyard-type duties, (oh and by the way keep your welding rods wrapped-up in newspaper somewhere dry and warm, Arc rods LOVE to absorb moisture, and then they're USELESS, we have to keep them in heated vaults at work 24/7
I find for general automotive duty a MIG is a better option, even cranked-down to MINIMUM an Arc will blow holes in body panels an even chassis-work.............
I have an Arc, a mig, and oxy/acetylene, But I find Arc welding probably the most enjoyable, but it takes a bit of skill and practice to do a good job..... the novice usually finds the most trouble striking-up an initial arc and then smoothly compensating for the continually shortening of the rod....
Nice bit of kit!!!
timwilky
13-09-08, 07:05 PM
you can get arch eye and it HURTS .
HURTS, stop making it sound trivial. Arc eye feels like somebody has hammered 6 inch nails through your eyes into your brain.
OK, when you go to A&E they put some drops in and suddenly you can see again. but they then put pads over the eyes don't take off for 36 hours.
That is the time you realise what it would be like to be blind. How do you make a brew. Go to the bog etc.
Arc eye is not fun. It is bloody painful.
Badger is right about the pigeon poo. You also think you have got it lovely. chip the slag and find there is nothing there. Also interceptor I agree, always MIG for automotive
My advice with these cheap welders. Go out and buy a proper mask. throw away that little shield.
xXBADGERXx
13-09-08, 07:08 PM
I think it personally feels like somebody dragging the tines of a fork down the backs of your eyeballs ......... slowly , whilst having half of Blackpool beach surrounding the fleshy pink bits ................. GRIND , GRAVEL , CREAK go the eyes ..... oh the pain !!!!!
Dangerous Dave
13-09-08, 07:44 PM
Unfortunately for some reason it doesn't have a plug attached so I'll pick one up in a couple of days and fire it up.
Common with some products from Aldi, they sell the same thing throughout Europe and it is a lot easier to supply a product with no plug than send certain stock to certain countries,
Which then leads nicely to my next question; how do you weld?
Ha,ha,ha... I like that.
Blue_SV650S
13-09-08, 07:51 PM
Arc welders are cool 8)
When I weld, there is more pidgin **** about than Trafalgar square mind!! :D
The bigest limitation with an arc welder is that you can't weld ali ... which bearing in mind 80% of the bike is Alli/magalloy, is a real sod.
Two tips, use the thinnest rods, greatly reduces the chances of blowing a hole in something. And secondly welding rusty stuff is really hard .. (see my first comment ;)) so try and get the metal back to shiny before trying to weld.
When do they stop the line at Aldi? I got a mate who keeps borrowing mine ... ;)
squirrel_hunter
13-09-08, 09:31 PM
Thanks all for the advice. Sounds as if this is going to be fun! As for the mask, yeah it looks a little flimsy I think I'll order a different one from somewhere. I held it up to a very bright halogen light to see if I could see through it as its opaque in natural light and the filament had a green glow, cool.
What are you going to weld with it?
Now that is a good question. To be honest I don't have any real use for it, I just felt that my manhood was being called into question by the lack of welding equipment in my garage. But seriously, I suppose eventually to fabricate brackets and make repairs when needed. But for now I need to teach myself how to use it. So I'll get some metal (see whats in the garage) and just start welding it, see how it goes.
Blue and Northy (cause I knew you'd be interested) they are on sale from tomorrow. I had to have a little chat with one of the staff before he would give me one... and get me a welder from out back. Which was lucky as I'm in the orifice all day tomorrow, but a shame cause I won't be able to even get a plug to try mine out.
fatneck
13-09-08, 10:59 PM
Must have been fun, riding home with that thing jabbing out the tank bag, nice work :-)
xXBADGERXx
14-09-08, 11:49 AM
How about designing and making your own Ground Anchor , you`ll know when your welding is good enough when you have the confidence to use it and have faith in your work , now there is a challenge for you ;)
yorkie_chris
14-09-08, 04:34 PM
All the talk about how painful arc eye is on here is an understatement. It really f###ing hurts.
Get a proper mask, the self-darkening ones are quite cool but a bit OTT.
Step 1 IMO is get a bit of plate... learn how to strike arc (they call it stick welding for a reason ;-)) and learn how to run a good bead, fill crater etc etc ... then start trying to join 2 pieces.
northwind
14-09-08, 06:40 PM
I went and got one of these this afternoon, I think I may have given away my lack of confidence by also buying a fire extinguisher :D
Blue_SV650S
14-09-08, 06:47 PM
Oh and just as you think you have a nice looking weld ... ... get the hammer out and tap off the flux ... then and only then will you reveal the pigeon **** weld beneath!! :D
On clean metal with an experienced welder* it is possible to get a nice looking weld, but Arc welding really is quick and dirty fix it/fabricate it welding. Don't expect the result to be pretty ... that said, its amazing how strong even pidgin **** welding can be if you brace things properly and have enough pidgin on there! 8)
I have fixed loads of stuff with my Arc welder, it ain't pretty, but it does/has done the job and prolly saved me many times the cost of the welder!! 8) I simply like to DIY if I can too!! ...
*most experienced welders will prolly long since stopped using Arc and use mig or tig mind you, so their Arc welding is prolly still pretty shoddy as they haven't done it for so long! ;)
northwind
14-09-08, 07:13 PM
Yeah, that's entirely what I've got it for... I've been put off some projects in the past that realistically needed welding, but my goal's probably still just to knock up a crap version that works out of mild steel, so I can send it to someone who can actually weld and get them to make a nice one :D
Still not taken it out of the box... Think I'll have a play with it tomorrow, blow some holes in something with my new lightning gun :D
SVGrandad
14-09-08, 08:16 PM
Please be aware, all you budding welders, that welding sparks are viscious little beggars that are painful to the hands, and if they get into your shoes you will imitate a cat on a hot tin roof! So always wear gloves, keep the feet out of the way, and make sure there is nothing inflammable lying about.
Good luck and keep practicing.
northwind
14-09-08, 10:02 PM
Helpfully aldi are also selling an apron and gloves set.
Hmmm. Even with a (turbo) cooling fan, I'll bet that you won't get more than 10 minutes of welding done before the thermal cut-out kicks in and leaves you kicking your heels for what seems like an age before you can start welding again - frustrating when you're eager to play ](*,)
Oh yeah - at first, you'll have lots of fun trying to wrestle your stuck rods off your work pieces, flaking off all the flux from your rod:)
You might think it's overkill, but try to find some clear glass safety spectacles, they'll protect your eyes from spatter and flying slag when you're chipping and the glass will protect your eyes from the UV rays - it's inevitable that you'll flash yourself at some point and as you've already been told - it's NOT funny
You'll be a gate/fence making maniac before you know it!
lukemillar
15-09-08, 08:50 AM
Can you guys post some pics of your first efforts after you crack open the box. I'm quite enjoying this thread! :cool:
454697819
15-09-08, 09:50 AM
please please remeber not to remove the mask whilst you remove the stuck stick from your weld... the reason being when you knock the metal of the stick, it will ark as it seprates... another good way to get ark eye.. which as so many have pointed out,
Imagine laying in bed at night with somone slowy & silently drilling out your retenas with a blunt drill bit.... yea that about sums it up...
Auto visors work well for sitck welding as it helps you strike an arc better as you can see where the stick is, its how I learnt, but I think the masks are 100£ odd quid..
DoubleD
15-09-08, 12:26 PM
Make sure you cover your arms as well or you will get sunburn and its not funny!
northwind
15-09-08, 12:48 PM
Sunburn? Ace! "Been on holiday" "No, I've been in the garage"
I fully intend to post up my terrible first efforts- might be getting ahead of myself there, it's possible I won't even rate "terrible" but fail-posts are always fun. Got an old steel-frame mountain bike and an old gate to play with, something tells me I'll end up welding the bike to the gate and the gate to myself.
yorkie_chris
15-09-08, 01:37 PM
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SOLAR-AUTO-DARKENING-WELDING-MASK-HELMET-GAUNTLETS_W0QQitemZ230290671573QQcmdZViewItem?hash =item230290671573&_trkparms=72%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C24 0%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
Dunno about the quality like...
the_lone_wolf
15-09-08, 01:48 PM
Got an old steel-frame mountain bike and an old gate to play with, something tells me I'll end up welding the bike to the gate and the gate to myself.
it took all my self control not to laugh out loud when i read that
anyone know if they're still doing these?
have a little idea i'd like to fabricate for my bike trailer but it'd be better welded than bolted (not to my actual trailer obviously, an extra;)
DoubleD
15-09-08, 02:04 PM
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SOLAR-AUTO-DARKENING-WELDING-MASK-HELMET-GAUNTLETS_W0QQitemZ230290671573QQcmdZViewItem?hash =item230290671573&_trkparms=72%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C24 0%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
Dunno about the quality like...
looks pretty cool, for £30 you can't go wrong.
Blue_SV650S
15-09-08, 03:40 PM
looks pretty cool, for £30 you can't go wrong.
Its £38, that's as much as the welder!! ;)
There is nothing wrong with the basic ones :)
Is arc good enough in terms of strength of welding. I dont know the difference between this and mig/tig but have been thinking about something like this over the last few months to play with as well.
Got an old steel-frame mountain bike and an old gate to play with, something tells me I'll end up welding the bike to the gate and the gate to myself.
it took all my self control not to laugh out loud when i read that
I failed and laughed out loud in my office, must be home time, I'll be soldering lots of wires tonight which, in this of all threads seems rather tame :D
Jambo
SVGrandad
15-09-08, 04:14 PM
Sunburn? Ace! "Been on holiday" "No, I've been in the garage"
I fully intend to post up my terrible first efforts- might be getting ahead of myself there, it's possible I won't even rate "terrible" but fail-posts are always fun. Got an old steel-frame mountain bike and an old gate to play with, something tells me I'll end up welding the bike to the gate and the gate to myself.
You are more likely to cut the bike into several pieces than stick it to the gate. Tube is not the easiest form to weld to.
yorkie_chris
15-09-08, 05:25 PM
MMA welding can be plenty strong enough and look good too, it's all about surface prep and practice... especiall welding tube.
northwind
15-09-08, 06:05 PM
You are more likely to cut the bike into several pieces than stick it to the gate. Tube is not the easiest form to weld to.
'salright, it's an early 80s raleigh, I think it's solid cast iron :D
squirrel_hunter
15-09-08, 08:55 PM
Right didn't think I'd get a chance this week but I put some other things off just so I could have a quick go. So got a plug from Tesco and out to the garage I went. Wired it up plugged it in. Got a rod in the device. Found a hacked up bottom yoke from a NC23 and thought I'd use this for a practice piece.
The set up...
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s216/squirrel_hunters_photos/15092008067.jpg
So aiming the rod at the yoke and with everything connected I hold the mask up to my face and bring the rod down to contact. Nothing. Ok, so I start waving it round a bit. Still nothing. Quick check is everything switched on and plugged in; yep. So a try again. Success; a spark "Its alive!". So I put the tools down switch off and go to look at the results. Yes I had a small burn mark on the metal.
This continued for a little bit longer. The occasional spark but no weld. Until I got it to spark and hold it there for a little longer, and this is what I got...
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s216/squirrel_hunters_photos/15092008068.jpg
So I officially welded something. Mask back on I go in for another try, and this time; darkness. I tripped the garage fuse. Probably because I have a halogen spot light and a radio on at the same time. Ok reset the fuse and lets go again.
After a few more trys getting it to spark up and keep it going became slightly easier. So I started moving it around adding weld to the yoke until I had fixed a whole rod to the yoke...
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s216/squirrel_hunters_photos/15092008069.jpg
At this point I decided to quit while I was ahead. It was way cool, sparks flying everywhere the smell that hung in the air and the smoke coming off of the yoke. This is fun. I let the yoke cool for a bit and then chipped and scraped some of the loose bits from the weld. Admittedly I reduced the amount of weld on the yoke by about 90%, but at least there was some left on it at the end. So I finished the night with this...
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s216/squirrel_hunters_photos/15092008070.jpg
I think for my next try I'll use different metal, get more practice striking up and I might even try joining a couple of pieces. I think its all going to be about practice, practice, practice. Actually, sod it, tomorrow I will fabricate my own bike frame; watch out Spondon here I come!
yorkie_chris
15-09-08, 09:35 PM
Get a scrap bit of 1/8" plate and grind it back to clean metal, it's loads easier!
SVGrandad
15-09-08, 09:38 PM
Hi Squirrel Hunter
Helpful (?) comments on your pictures
Your metal is not clean
It is usually more comfy to have the rod at right angles to the holder
You may need to raise the current a bit
Keep playing!
gettin2dizzy
16-09-08, 06:43 AM
Holding a decent arc is the hardest bit!
Good effort though :thumbsup:
Now lets see what Northwind can do ;)
Blue_SV650S
16-09-08, 07:42 AM
..
Is that a flock of Pidgins I see flying overhead!?!?!! :D
As other have said, start off with clean metal.
xXBADGERXx
16-09-08, 10:04 AM
Also that yoke may have been made from all sorts on unknown quantities but the hardest part you had there was that it was probably painted and the fact that it was also cast .......... cast is hard to weld as it has bubbles in it . Go for a nice big bit of freshly ground plate .
Why do I have a pointless need to own a welder now?
SoulKiss
16-09-08, 10:47 AM
Why do I have a pointless need to own a welder now?
Want to go halves ???
I'd never use it but would still have one :P
the_lone_wolf
16-09-08, 10:50 AM
£30 is cheap...
but not as cheap as an old microwave and some hacking:
http://hackaday.com/2006/09/21/microwave-oven-arc-welder/
http://www.dansworkshop.com/electricity-and-electronics/homebuilt-arc-welder.htm
:eek:
Want to go halves ???
I'd never use it but would still have one :P
Lol... I need to use your spring compressors, just keep putting it off with other jobs.
£30 is cheap...
but not as cheap as an old microwave and some hacking:
http://hackaday.com/2006/09/21/microwave-oven-arc-welder/
http://www.dansworkshop.com/electricity-and-electronics/homebuilt-arc-welder.htm
:eek:
Somethings are best left un hacked and I'm not happy about making something like that from something that cooks a spud in 12 minutes.
SoulKiss
16-09-08, 12:06 PM
Something are best left un hacked and I'm not happy about making something like that from something that cooks a spud in 12 minutes.
But if you put 4 together you can arc weld a spud in 3 minutes
I went and got one of these this afternoon, I think I may have given away my lack of confidence by also buying a fire extinguisher :D
Lol... so what you welded so far?
Step 1 IMO is get a bit of plate... learn how to strike arc (they call it stick welding for a reason ;-)) and learn how to run a good bead, fill crater etc etc ... then start trying to join 2 pieces.
Run a good bead? Fill crater... fill a hole?
northwind
16-09-08, 12:56 PM
I may put a plug on it at some point
yorkie_chris
16-09-08, 01:19 PM
Lol... so what you welded so far?
Run a good bead? Fill crater... fill a hole?
Bead is the actual run of weld... you want it nice and regular in pattern and width.
When you lift of at end of bead it'll leave a crater at the end, you need to get hang of moving electrode down a little in angle and pause to fill it in and finish the weld off nicely.
Dappa D
16-09-08, 02:40 PM
Which then leads nicely to my next question; how do you weld?
:smt041:smt043:smt043:smt043:smt043:smt043
the_lone_wolf
16-09-08, 03:06 PM
Somethings are best left un hacked and I'm not happy about making something like that from something that cooks a spud in 12 minutes.
ya big jessy;)
ya big jessy;)
Maybe... but I'm still alive. Not getting a darwin award.
shonadoll
16-09-08, 03:58 PM
I went and got one of these this afternoon, I think I may have given away my lack of confidence by also buying a fire extinguisher :D
:D Hahahaha! Brilliant.
vBulletin® , Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.