View Full Version : hel brake lines, pics and advice?
heyho orgers, im currently in the process of fitting hel lines to the front of the bike, 2 line set up.
the lines are fitted to the bike as you can see from the pics (he says hopefully)
left side as you sit on the bike
http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/3660/dsc00884wf5.th.jpg (http://img392.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00884wf5.jpg)http://img392.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)
right side
http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/5024/dsc00885hn1.th.jpg (http://img392.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00885hn1.jpg)http://img392.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)
from the top
http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/329/dsc00886am2.th.jpg (http://img392.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00886am2.jpg)http://img392.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)
all lines,bolts and washers are on and secure. the top is off the master cylinder at the moment with no brake fluid in the sytem at all.
according to the destructions that came with the syringe i swiped off ebay, i connect the pipe to the bleed nipple on the caliper,open nipple and pump away to fill system with brake fluid.
is it really that simple?
how do i know when there is enough brake fluid in the system?
is there a chance of over filling seeing as i have to do it from both calipers?
should the lid of the master cylinder be on or off while i refill the system?
any advice would be much appreciated as i think im in over my head. my mechanical knowledge is a bit sh1te. im ashamed to say i know more about football than my own bike :shock: and im not a footy person
hope this post makes sense, im off for a coffee and a cig
maff
yup, its that simple ... you will know when you have done it as there will be no more bubbles comming up threw the mastercylinder resivure.
another tip is to cable tie your front brake lever to the bar so as its pulled in, that way the cylinder is 'open' to let fluid threw.
i also find using twin bleeding hoses with a T pice easier. that way you use less fluid and do both brakes at once.
just to add.. if you are only doing one at a time do the furthest (longest) pipe first.
i also find using twin bleeding hoses with a T pice easier. that way you use less fluid and do both brakes at once.
thats one thing i havent got so it will have to be one side at a time
do i need to replace the lid of the master cylinder or does it not matter?
thanks for the advice
maff
take the mastercylinder resivure lid off when doing it
Leave the lid off as you will need to keep topping it up as the level goes down.
also ... get a damp cloth/s and cover any area you think brake fluid will spill onto... it saves your paintwork
Leave the lid off as you will need to keep topping it up as the level goes down.
He's doing it from the bottom up Grant.
Still leave the lid off though fella. Just don't squirt the fluid in too fast otherwise it will overflow out of the reservoir (correct spelling for Bibio :wink: ).
Leave the lid off as you will need to keep topping it up as the level goes down.
he is using a syringe from the caliper up .... so he will need to take fluid out as it goes up ... :rolleyes:
He's doing it from the bottom up Grant.
Still leave the lid off though fella. Just don't squirt the fluid in too fast otherwise it will overflow out of the reservoir (correct spelling for Bibio :wink: ).
a stamd correctuid coz am stuppid :p
a stamd correctuid coz am stuppid :p
;)
Flamin_Squirrel
22-09-08, 02:29 PM
Suggest you may have more success filling the resevior and using the syringe to suck fluid through from the top.
another tip is to cable tie your front brake lever to the bar so as its pulled in, that way the cylinder is 'open' to let fluid threw.
*slaps Bibio*
Pulling the lever back shuts off the path through the master cylinder rather than opening it, so don't do that.
ok progress so far.....
after the pipe coming off the syring and spraying me and he garage floor in brake fluid,told you im not the brightest hehe
iv taken the cable tie off the brake and i have fluid IN the master cylinder but only a little bit at the mo so ive stopped.
if i do the same on the other side till the bubbles dissappear i should know the both lines are full of fluid yes?
and then just top up master cylinder....hopefully anyway
maff
btw the bike is stripped to beyond naked as im cleaning it this week ready for the winter, might be the only chance i get, so not much for brake fluid to get on to
Flamin_Squirrel
22-09-08, 02:57 PM
Are you filling from the bottom? If so you'll struggle to know when all the bubbles are out - they may be on one side but not the other. The reservior will have filled to the brim before that, so you'll have to drain some of it.
yes filling from the bottom
maff
Flamin_Squirrel
22-09-08, 03:04 PM
Ok. Think you'll have to just do up the bleed nipples periodically, and squeeze the brake lever. If it's spongey, you've still got air in it.
ok, both lines are full, master cylinder is full and the top is screwed back on but i have no brakes! you can pull the lever in all the way to the bar and nothing happens...any ideas?
maff
Flamin_Squirrel
22-09-08, 03:26 PM
You've still got air in the lines.
I'd suck fluid out from the calipers if I were you. Remember to top up the reservior as you go - if you don't you can let more air in at the top and you'll have to start again.
Suggest you may have more success filling the resevior and using the syringe to suck fluid through from the top.
*slaps Bibio*
Pulling the lever back shuts off the path through the master cylinder rather than opening it, so don't do that.
ok slap me, i'll be your bitch :smt079 =P~
so why does air come out of the system when you cabletie your brake lever overnight?
iv tried sucking it out from the bottom and as much brake fluid is coming out im getting the same amount of air bubbles. either im opening the nipple to far or iv knackered something
the brake lever feels better but not what i know it can be so ive given up for now. ive zip tied the brake lever to see if that will do anything over night if not then im stumped
maff
xXBADGERXx
22-09-08, 04:29 PM
Hel`s are a pig to bleed , I have some on mine , you definately still have air in those lines , fill the reservoir up and extract from the bottom with the syringe , keep the syringe with the plunger facing upwards so all air floats to the top of the syringe then tighten the nipple up , top up the reservoir to the line and then try the brakes :D HTH .
You only have to crack the nipple open slightly as if you open it too much you will suck air past the nipple and into the Syringe making you think you still have air in there .
You only have to crack the nipple open slightly as if you open it too much you will suck air past the nipple and into the Syringe making you think you still have air in there .
ok another top tip from the bibio book of brakes... theeheehhee
if your system is empty take off your bleed nipples and put some plumbers ptfe tape on the threads, when winding the tape on put it on anti-clockwise and dont go as far down as the pointy bit just cover the threads with a few turns, pop them back in and viola, no more fluid leek or sucking air.
another thing is goodridge self bleed nipples work a treat.
Ah - this is what happenened with me. I had to pull the callipers off and lift them up as high as possible. Tie them off on a rafter or find an extra pair of hands. The idea is to move them around or tap them so the air comes out of the nipple. Leave the nipple open with the hose running into a can and keep pumping the brake leaver until the fluid is clear. Make sure the hose and can is higher than the calliper as you want any air running up the hose and not back into the calliper. It's important you dont let the reservoir go empty or you will get more problems so keep filling it when it goes down. Once its running clear with no sneaky little bubbles tighten and repeat with the other. This works with the back brake too.
You only have to crack the nipple open slightly as if you open it too much you will suck air past the nipple and into the Syringe making you think you still have air in there .
i think thats whats happening, either that or the pipe isnt fitting the nip securely enough. ill try it tomorrow, iv given up on it for tonight
maff
Nicky S
22-09-08, 11:43 PM
do i need to replace the lid of the master cylinder
nope
ThEGr33k
23-09-08, 12:25 AM
It might just take a lot of doing. Sometimes bleeding can be a REAL pain in the ****. :(
Hope you manage to give the air the boot mate :)
Mr Stoppy, you need to do this.
Probably easier with two of you. Get one to pump the lever and the otehr to open and close the nipple.
You will need a length of clear tubing
A pot for the fluid
8 or 7mm spanner (I forget which)
Brake fluid.
1. Fill resiviour up with fluid
2. Attach clear pipe on the nipple
3. Pull the lever in
4. Open the nipple
5. Count to 3
6. Close the nipple
7. Release the lever
8. Pump lever and pull in
9. Open nipple
10. Count to 3
11. Close nipple
Do 3-11 about 6 times until you have fluid in the clear pipe then move to the opposite side. Repaet about 5 times a side and you should start gettting some feeling in the brake lever.
NEVER RELEASE THE LEVER WITH THE NIPPLE OPEN! This will allow air to be sucked into the system.
Then over night cable tie the lever to the handle bar and this should be it. If not, then try the syringe method. Again, when opening the nipple pull the leve in just a fraction to load up the hydrualic system, open the nipple whilst pulling on the syringe. Dont ever push it and close the nipple before you release the suction!
Flamin_Squirrel
23-09-08, 07:59 AM
so why does air come out of the system when you cabletie your brake lever overnight?
Because, overnight the bubbles will rise to the top. When you untie the lever the next day, the m/c piston moves back and lets the bubbles out through the reservior.
At least that's the theory - I've never had any luck tying the lever back.
thanks mr viney i shall try it that way instead
iv found that pumping fluid in from the nipple end is causing fluid to work its way up through the thread of the bleed valve itself and escaping that way
ok iv been going since about nine this morning. iv got no air bubbles coming from either caliper but absolutley nothing in the brake lever, iv rendered my bike useless :(
ok iv been going since about nine this morning. iv got no air bubbles coming from either caliper but absolutley nothing in the brake lever, iv rendered my bike useless :(
Your problem is the air is trapped inside the calliper somewhere and needs someway of coming out. See my post above for some ideas.
i'm not trying to be funny here, but the master cylinder plunger hasent 'stuck in' has it?
you have closed both nipples when you are trying the brakes?
even with some air in the system you should still feel some resistance at the leaver.
Are the pistons in the calipers out from the caliper? If so, remove the caliper form the fork and press the pistons back into the caliper (Both at the same time) (make sure that the resiviour is not full when you do this. This will push the fluid back up the lines and hopefully air.
Just while i think of it, all the banjos are tight and you do have a copper washer on both faces of the banjos at the top and bottom?
As for the fluid out of the nipple, this is ok, but you really only need to open the nipples about 1/4 of a turn. If you where closer, id come and do it for you. It took me forever to get the knack but now i have, i can do it with less than 250ml of fluid!
It took me forever to get the knack but now i have, i can do it with less than 250ml of fluid!
You are welcome to come and do mine if you want.
i'm not trying to be funny here, but the master cylinder plunger hasent 'stuck in' has it?
you have closed both nipples when you are trying the brakes?
even with some air in the system you should still feel some resistance at the leaver.
tbh i dont know
Are the pistons in the calipers out from the caliper? If so, remove the caliper form the fork and press the pistons back into the caliper (Both at the same time) (make sure that the resiviour is not full when you do this. This will push the fluid back up the lines and hopefully air.
i shall check and try
Just while i think of it, all the banjos are tight and you do have a copper washer on both faces of the banjos at the top and bottom?
thats the first thing i checked, iv got no leaks from the bolts at all
As for the fluid out of the nipple, this is ok, but you really only need to open the nipples about 1/4 of a turn. If you where closer, id come and do it for you. It took me forever to get the knack but now i have, i can do it with less than 250ml of fluid!
coffee break anyhoo
Are the pistons in the calipers out from the caliper? If so, remove the caliper form the fork and press the pistons back into the caliper (Both at the same time) (make sure that the resiviour is not full when you do this. This will push the fluid back up the lines and hopefully air.
thats the winner :p i pushed the calipers back and after 4 or 5 pulss on the lever i had pressure
lever is a lot firmer now, no bubbles coming through the nipples as far as i can see so ive left it cable tied for the night
many thanks .org :D
xXBADGERXx
23-09-08, 04:14 PM
YeeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaa , we have a winner :D
ThEGr33k
24-09-08, 09:52 PM
I just odered some HEL lines too. For £58 I couldnt see a reason not to! :cool:
Whats the best way to stop air from staying in the callipers, maybe fill the callipers before you attach the lines?
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