Better get your show plates ordered now!!

[Mr_Chin]

DVLA are tightening up on show plates. Please see the following article about showplates:

http://www.dvla.gov.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/010808_08.aspx

You won't be able to get one from 1st November 2008.

Chin

[simesb]

Won't make any difference. If they do clamp down, the manufacturers will just move offshore....

[Dappa D]

ireland I believe you can order them from......

[Lozzo]

There's always someone willing to bend the rules, nothing to panic about.

[SoulKiss]

I believe that if you are running a show plate at the moment you are charged with not displaying a number plate rather than having a non-standard numberplat

Therefore show plates are not number plates, therefore dont count under these regs.

Besides read the linked DVLA article, these laws ALREADY exsist in England - its just an extension into Scotland and Northern Ireland

So basically nothing to worry about and nothing new

[Mr_Chin]

Besides read the linked DVLA article, these laws ALREADY exsist in England - its just an extension into Scotland and Northern Ireland

So basically nothing to worry about and nothing new

Disagree there:

"While it is already an offence across the UK for motorists to display non-compliant number plates on their vehicles, as of 1st November 2008 it will become an offence to supply number plates that do not comply with the Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) Regulations 2001. Some number plate suppliers already advise their customers that non-compliant number plates cannot be used on the road and are for display purposes only, however, it will now be an offence to supply non-compliant number plates irrespective of any advice given."

Chin

[yorkie_chris]

So start selling show plates as wall decorations to remind you of your bike then. Or maybe as non-magnetic fridge magnets for people with pacemakers.

[SoulKiss]

Disagree there:

"While it is already an offence across the UK for motorists to display non-compliant number plates on their vehicles, as of 1st November 2008 it will become an offence to supply number plates that do not comply with the Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) Regulations 2001. Some number plate suppliers already advise their customers that non-compliant number plates cannot be used on the road and are for display purposes only, however, it will now be an offence to supply non-compliant number plates irrespective of any advice given."

Chin

Ok I stand corrected - must have fallen asleep around that point...... :)

[Tim in Belgium]

So start selling show plates as wall decorations to remind you of your bike then. Or maybe as non-magnetic fridge magnets for people with pacemakers.

Will a none magnetic fridge magnet work on my plastic fridge?

[yorkie_chris]

Of course it will! And it won't bend your microwave either!

[Mr_Chin]

Ok I stand corrected - must have fallen asleep around that point...... :)

Apology accepted.

I just thought I'd let org members know that companies won't be providing showplates anymore. I just recieved an email from the company I bought my plate from (for the fridge - with magnet), saying that they won't be doing showplates from 31st October 2008 - that's how I heard about it.

Chin

[neio79]

ohhh thats going to **** off a few tail tidy companies. If you cant buy a show plate no point buying a tail tidy is there?

[fizzwheel]

ohhh thats going to **** off a few tail tidy companies. If you cant buy a show plate no point buying a tail tidy is there?

It does kind of doesnt it.

I put the tidy on the GSXR and had a standard size plate on it, it did look better with the snow shovel gone, but the standard size plate spoiled the look.

[Skip]

It does kind of doesnt it.

I put the tidy on the GSXR and had a standard size plate on it, it did look better with the snow shovel gone, but the standard size plate spoiled the look.
I put a tail tidy and 7x5 plate on my Zed - but for some reason preferred the original plate so use that instead :confused:

At least we wont see any/less new scripted ones on cars - I detest them! =;

[Drew Carey]

We put a tail tidy on Lilys bike and because it is lowered the stock plate only had about 3 inches clearance!!!!!! Therefore needed to get a smaller plate fitted to give a good level of clearance to the wheel.

[muffles]

Ok I stand corrected - must have fallen asleep around that point...... :)

SK - I was also scanning the press release for that part :D

Why? Well, I am concerned by the vagueness surrounding this. When does a piece of plastic and/or other material, with some writing on, become a number plate? This isn't clarified here at all.

It's kind of linked to the argument you were presenting SK, that you don't have a number plate thus it cannot be bound by number plate supply laws.

If I take a piece of A4 paper and write my registration on it, can I be convicted of "supplying" a "non-compliant plate" to myself?

If I go to a plastic-moulding company (NOTHING to do with vehicles, plates, etc - let's say they make custom window frames or some other such b*llocks) and ask them to make me a rectangular piece of plastic, with my registration on, do they become guilty of "supplying a non-compliant plate"? What if my registration isn't immediately recognisable as a registration, they could have no implied knowledge there - for example, 'A1' (which is a valid registration I believe)?

It's all very vague...I may email/contact them at some point about this...clarification is required here.

[simesb]

It's all very vague...I may email/contact them at some point about this...clarification is required here.

Actually, I don't think it is.

I think it's a British Standard which specifies minimum size, font, reflective background, etc.

[Baph]

Actually, I don't think it is.

I think it's a British Standard which specifies minimum size, font, reflective background, etc.
There is a BS spec for numberplates, yes.

But as muffles says, if you ask a company to make a piece of plastic, that has some writing on it, and has a certain background, then they will want to know which fonts/colours/sizes you want everything.

If you specify the details, where along the lines does it become a numberplate, and not merely the requested piece of plastic?

[muffles]

Actually, I don't think it is.

I think it's a British Standard which specifies minimum size, font, reflective background, etc.

As Baph mentions, I was not clarifying what makes a legal number plate, but what makes an illegal numberplate... using a negative, i.e. "an illegal number plate is a number plate that is not legal" is not enough...it covers everything.

For instance going by the above statement, an elephant is an illegal number plate. Are they going to prosecute elephant sellers?

[simesb]

As Baph mentions, I was not clarifying what makes a legal number plate, but what makes an illegal numberplate... using a negative, i.e. "an illegal number plate is a number plate that is not legal" is not enough...it covers everything.

For instance going by the above statement, an elephant is an illegal number plate. Are they going to prosecute elephant sellers?

I think it is illegal if it doesn't display the BS no. Of course, you could print the BS no yourself - I don't know the legalities of printing a BS no when you don't have the "right" to.

[Stu]

I hope so!
There's just too many elephants clogging up my commute to work in the morning :rant:

[muffles]

I think it is illegal if it doesn't display the BS no. Of course, you could print the BS no yourself - I don't know the legalities of printing a BS no when you don't have the "right" to.

OK, I'm going to be a bit cheeky here to highlight the point I'm making, so don't take this as having a go...


I'm an elephant seller. I sell elephants, but they don't have a BS number (displayed or otherwise). Am I going to be prosecuted for selling illegal numberplates? I match all of the criteria given so far...

[Stu]

I think it is illegal if it doesn't display the BS no. Of course, you could print the BS no yourself - I don't know the legalities of printing a BS no when you don't have the "right" to.
I think you are still completely missing the point.
We are talking about the sale of show plates becoming illegal. So the question is what makes something a show plate?

Is an elephant a show plate for example?
Or is a Yellow keyring that you can buy from woolies that says F4ST C4R in black writing a show plate?

[rowdy]

I took a pillion once who snapped the numberplate/indicators off my tail tidy and snapped the number plate in half when he got off my bike (clumsy t**t) so I got the signwriter that works next door to me to make me up a metal one which will never snap in half. I take it this is now illegal?

[Dangerous Dave]

Won't make any difference. If they do clamp down, the manufacturers will just move offshore....
+ 1, just like the dark visor shops did.

[Stu]

I take it this is now illegal?
Because you have already bought it, it's not going to get anymore illegal than it already is (?) but it sounds like you're not going to be able to buy a replacement in the future legally.

[simesb]

OK, I'm going to be a bit cheeky here to highlight the point I'm making, so don't take this as having a go...

Not at all - I don't know the answers so it's a useful discussion to have.

I'm an elephant seller. I sell elephants, but they don't have a BS number (displayed or otherwise). Am I going to be prosecuted for selling illegal numberplates? I match all of the criteria given so far...

I guess it's reasonableness. It's not reasonable for you to expect that a customer would attempt to use one of your elephants as a plate. However, if you made something which was like a plate but smaller, and had the reg of the accused (bearing in mind that one of the points is to avoid vehicle cloning) then it may be reasonable to expect your customer to attempt to use it as a plate.

Did I get the point now? :D

[Stu]

I'm an elephant seller. I sell elephants, but they don't have a BS number (displayed or otherwise). Am I going to be prosecuted for selling illegal numberplates? I match all of the criteria given so far...

+ 1, just like the dark visor shops did.
You're f**** Muffles! The postage is going to be horrendous from overseas now.

[Stu]

I guess it's reasonableness.
When has the Law ever been reasonable

:lol:

[muffles]

Not at all - I don't know the answers so it's a useful discussion to have.



I guess it's reasonableness. It's not reasonable for you to expect that a customer would attempt to use one of your elephants as a plate. However, if you made something which was like a plate but smaller, and had the reg of the accused (bearing in mind that one of the points is to avoid vehicle cloning) then it may be reasonable to expect your customer to attempt to use it as a plate.

Did I get the point now? :D

Haha, yep you do - but I still think the test of 'reasonable' is too vague (I know it's used in some other bits of law - such as the careless driving/dangerous driving test). Actually, in your example above, I would expect the 'reasonable' test to apply to whether it was "like" a plate, rather than would it be reasonable to expect the customer to use it as a plate - because, it is still legal to have a non-compliant plate on your bike, off road.

One of the main problems is that the DVLA haven't even attempted to clarify this - no examples, nothing, not even a consideration of this point. I wonder if it's intentional - so they can just "decide" if you are or aren't allowed to make a particular "plate"...

You're f**** Muffles! The postage is going to be horrendous from overseas now.

:smt043 - genuinely cracked me up! I'll have to move to smaller animals, such as cats and dogs...

[Baph]

However, if you made something which was like a plate but smaller, and had the reg of the accused (bearing in mind that one of the points is to avoid vehicle cloning) then it may be reasonable to expect your customer to attempt to use it as a plate.

Did I get the point now? :D
As muffles said above, what if it's a private plate, and therefore not obvious to the person/people making the "plate" that it's a registration number?

[muffles]

Just one other analogy re: the way the DVLA have done this...imagine the law said "you must not ride/drive too quickly"...i.e. it would be a test of 'reasonableness' ... you can see how awkward that could be - it's the same with the distinction of what makes an illegal plate - it needs to be more black and white than that...

[rowdy]

:smt043 - genuinely cracked me up! I'll have to move to smaller animals, such as cats and dogs...[/quote]
can cats be used as number plates ,I thought the only other use they had was as tea towel holders:)

[simesb]

As muffles said above, what if it's a private plate, and therefore not obvious to the person/people making the "plate" that it's a registration number?

I guess it would be to do with how to product was advertised and what the customer asked for. Websites which say "enter registration" would have a hard job convincing a court otherwise. And I've just checked my illegal plate and it has the BS on it!

Just one other analogy re: the way the DVLA have done this...imagine the law said "you must not ride/drive too quickly"...i.e. it would be a test of 'reasonableness' ... you can see how awkward that could be - it's the same with the distinction of what makes an illegal plate - it needs to be more black and white than that...

Somethings are black and white and some aren't. Speed limits may be absolute but in the olden days the occifer would apply discretion before referring the case. Dangerous driving, on the other hand, is somewhat more of a gray area.

[Baph]

I guess it would be to do with how to product was advertised and what the customer asked for. Websites which say "enter registration" would have a hard job convincing a court otherwise. And I've just checked my illegal plate and it has the BS on it!


The example given was a company that makes PVC windows etc.

There's a company not even a mile from me that make all sorts of things from plastic, I know a fair number of the workers, and could easily get something knocked out of the CNC machines on the quiet, let alone officially - and they don't make "registration plates" so don't advertise that they can do so. :)

[muffles]

I guess it would be to do with how to product was advertised and what the customer asked for. Websites which say "enter registration" would have a hard job convincing a court otherwise. And I've just checked my illegal plate and it has the BS on it!



Somethings are black and white and some aren't. Speed limits may be absolute but in the olden days the occifer would apply discretion before referring the case. Dangerous driving, on the other hand, is somewhat more of a gray area.

Agreed not everything is black and white, but here they really have given no guidance. Unfortunately there is a theme of banning things as the answer these days :(

[muffles]

Oh, also just had a thought - we already have discretion in place, in fact that has been publicly posted - that officers are to use their discretion about strictly-illegal plates - if they are readable from the standard distance they are meant to give advice.

So I really don't understand why they are even bringing this in. Surely they should simply change the guidelines so that officers stick to the letter of the law?

[arenalife]

Damn interfering government! GRR FNARR GRRRR GRRRR

The argument about what a number plate is a similar one to when does a piece of metal become an illegal knife I suppose. I'm sure the bigger manufacturers will find a way to get round it. They are all internet based so not a big problem there, they should just say they're in France and take payment by Paypal or similar.

[yorkie_chris]

The number plate thing I can see the point of, if it can't be read by ANPR etc then they're losing revenue on tax-dodgers, and it might possibly be the reason why your stolen bike isn't recovered if it's a ride-away theft. Fair enough that mostly applies to the pi$$-taking plate sizes rather than ones which have letters 0.5mm closer together...

It seems like a really bad way to get a £30 fine to me.

[Grinch]

Will I will be mostly buying yellow plastic and a thick marker from now on???