Supermoto

[vardypeeps]

Does anyone have the experience of owning a supermoto???
DRZ400 SM, KTM LC4, Husqvarna?

Just after a few opinions of how they ride handle and how comfy (or uncomfy) they are etc.

Really interested in getting one but want one with abit more poke than a 400.

Cheers :)

[yorkie_chris]

Ask the lone wolf, he's got a ktm and a drz

[the_lone_wolf]

you rang?;)

the three bikes you've listed there will be very different, the suzuki is very easy giong, the engine is in a very low state of tune and the bike is designed to be a road legal bit of fun

the LC4 is a compromise of road manners and performance engine, not as easy tolive with as the DRZ but much more poke (think x2 bhp with the same weight). sensible oil changes (4000miles)

the husky is more of a race bred machine, and you'll be having to carry out more maintenance to keep it in tip top condition and prevent things from going wrong (think 300 mile oil changes), although the Racing Four Stroke bikes (450/525/560 EXC/SMR etc) are designed to be raced, worked on quickly so they're a joy to work with - i wouldn't rely on a husky/husaberg or aprilia SXV as daily transport as i would the KTM LC4 range

as for the ride an handling, it flatters the rider, and even coming off my KTM to the SV it feels like a barge in comparison, but then it's a race bike converted and road registered, the better SMs have race inspired or even straight up race suspension so they excel on poor surfaces, the light weight and wide bars means they change direction instantly

of 1-10 on the "mental scale" the DRZ would rank about a 3, then you get your CRF conversions around 5, LC4s about 6, converted EXCs, husky about 7 and 8-10 is populated by the mad stuff, 2 stroke MX conversions, KTM SMRs, SXV550s and husabergs

talking about comfort, i find the riding position to be very comfy, i have long arms and legs so the SV is a bit cramped for my lower half but i can happily ride the KTM for 3hrs or so before i start to get **** ache from the seat, the LC4s are an older engine design and they vibrate, a LOT!!!, but you do get used to it

the downsides...

they universally have low fuel tank capacity, think 50-80 miles from a brimmed talk, you won't cross continents and the wind protection is non-existent, they're not subtle, mine sounds like a machine gun on the overrun and shoots 2ft blue flames, and makes a noise that no SV could muster. and they will make you ride like a hooligan, i don't know why, but they will.

which one to buy depends entirely on what you want

daily use, pillions, general riding = KTM LC4 or a DRZ etc

weekend toy = converted CRF, KTM 525EXC etc

mental weekend / track toy = KTM 560SMR, SXV550 or husky (although the KTM RFS engines are less likely to go bang)

any questions give me a shout, there's lots of SM info on www.ktmforum.co.uk and www.seventeeninches.co.uk

here's a gratuitous shot of my 560, mental beast:

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8659/dscf7051smallvw1.jpg

[Supervox]

Hmmm, I think Mrs Vox might take issue with you regarding your assessment of the LC4 as suitable for pillion riding !!

I can only speak as I find & I have to say that I was mightily disappointed with the LC4 compared to the Husky 610 that a mate of mine had & more recently the FMX 650 (albeit a well 'sorted' one).

[the_lone_wolf]

Hmmm, I think Mrs Vox might take issue with you regarding your assessment of the LC4 as suitable for pillion riding !!

I can only speak as I find & I have to say that I was mightily disappointed with the LC4 compared to the Husky 610 that a mate of mine had & more recently the FMX 650 (albeit a well 'sorted' one).
it's more suitable than a SMR, i'm amazed she didn't enjoy the vibes...;)

which LC4 did you ride? unless it was an SMC it has the neutered carb and doesn't go anywhere near as well as the 625/660 versions

even if it was the SMC it shouldn't be compared to the Husky 610, which is more like a 560/612 SMR in terms of maintenance and performance, just not as reliable;)

[G]

I fancy a go on one, I could probably only really justify a DRZ400 as a second bike and if like you say they arnt much fun then I probably wont bother :(

There is some mental people on KTM's around here, they go everywhere on the back wheel.

[vardypeeps]

I am mainly after something that will get me to work and back with good mpg and for the back road hoot as well

[yorkie_chris]

How fars work?

[vardypeeps]

16 miles there and back. not too far I'm over in Bradford

[the_lone_wolf]

There is some mental people on KTM's around here, they go everywhere on the back wheel.

we don't go everywhere on the back wheel


when stopping at traffic lights we give the back wheel a break and allow it to cool down while exposed to an elevated breeze

[Woz]

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8659/dscf7051smallvw1.jpg


How do them tyres work then? Looks like a monsoon tyre on the front and an almost illegal semi-slick on the back.

[the_lone_wolf]

How do them tyres work then? Looks like a monsoon tyre on the front and an almost illegal semi-slick on the back.

the front tyre is a racing wet that just happens to be E marked and approved for road use. ultra grippy in all conditions but if you put one on the back of a 60bhp+ supermoto it would last between 500 and 1000 miles depending on how rough you were and how much dry riding you did

the rear is a pirelli supercorsa pro, as sticky in the dry as the pro extreme on the front, but lasts a vaguely reasonable time (2000 miles or so). both tyres are road legal, if you want to see some really crazy road legal tyres check out maxxis' pre-cut slicks:

http://www.supermotardclub.com/smshop/images/1pre-cut_road_front.jpghttp://www.supermotardclub.com/smshop/images/1pre-cut_road_rear.jpg

the reason i have a wet on the front instead of another supercorsa is because on the dirt sections of supermoto tracks or in the wet, i'd rather have the front grip and the back loose than vice versa or neither gripping

[Spokey]

If we are talking gratuitous photo's of supermoto's we've owned ... here's some of mine - I currently have the red CRM ... ;o)
I'd say, once you've had a supermoto, VERY difficult to enjoy anything else and anything else seems very "lardy" - the original reason I sold the first SV as I couldn't get used to the riding position - the naked SV I had was about as close to a supermoto that I have come - still like riding a bus though in comparison. Supermoto's are ace - end of. And CCM's get slated, but I absolutely loved mine - I have had 2x R30's, and would certainly have another - very easy to ride, I found them reliable and well made - ideal every day supermoto
DRZ was ok - not mega fast, but 90 easy enough - KTM 640 - the Vibes ... yes, you get used to them but it's like someone rodgering you with a brush handle when you first get one ( I would imagine ) which is bloody alarming - 110 easy enough, well made, cheap parts - 2 stroke KTM - very light and great fun, but want's to be "on the pipe" all the time which was 85+, CRM - good compromise - I use this for greenlaning so have 2 sets of wheels, seat, tank and body panels - like a 4 stroke regarding low down torque - but takes off like a 2 stroke when you ring it's neck.
Nana

[Mitch]

I bought a DRZ sm back in May and have to say its a great bike, not as fast as the SV but brings a massive smile to my face. Cornering is amazing, I'm no expert rider but these things are so easy to ride. As Lone Wolf says it will deffinately turn you into a hooligan. MPG is about the same as an SV, I get about 100 miles before switching to reserve and it costs about £8 to fill it back up. I have spent over 2 hours on it and my **** was a bit sore. Have taken it off road (nothing too serious) and it was fine. Use it for commuting (about 9 miles each way) and its perfect.
As I said, its not going to break any land speed records, but it does go well enough. Have a look here for more info http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/

[Spokey]

I bought a DRZ sm back in May and have to say its a great bike, not as fast as the SV but brings a massive smile to my face. Cornering is amazing, I'm no expert rider but these things are so easy to ride. As Lone Wolf says it will deffinately turn you into a hooligan. MPG is about the same as an SV, I get about 100 miles before switching to reserve and it costs about £8 to fill it back up. I have spent over 2 hours on it and my **** was a bit sore. Have taken it off road (nothing too serious) and it was fine. Use it for commuting (about 9 miles each way) and its perfect.
As I said, its not going to break any land speed records, but it does go well enough. Have a look here for more info http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/

Interesting that many people buy supermoto's to slow them down after having 180 mph crotch rockets - but as you say, they just beg to be ridden like a loon so it actually has completely the opposite effect !!

Nana

[Mitch]

Interesting that many people buy supermoto's to slow them down after having 180 mph crotch rockets - but as you say, they just beg to be ridden like a loon so it actually has completely the opposite effect !!

Nana

You're right. Although I ride my SV quite conservatively, never been able to get knee down or anything like that. I get on the supermoto and can fly around corners. What they lack in straight line speed is soon pulled back in the corners. I have virtually no chicken strips on my SM, great fun.

[the_lone_wolf]

haha, nice to see there's a few other mad souls about...

mitch - imagine a bike that's even lighter and flickable than the DRZ and kicks harder and faster than the SV and you've got what it feels like to ride the 560SMR - nothing is close, 110kg and 60+ rwhp does strange things to your perception of what get up and go really is, the SV would probably sail past it after 120mph or so but for crack the throttle open shove there's nothing like the KTMs:D - see my sig below for my reaction the first time i ever rode mine (on the race track) and realised i'd been lifting the front wheel in 2nd and hadn't used anything past 1/2 throttle:eek:

banana - forgot about the CCMs, basically a DRZ with more grunt, never tried one but heard good things for the most part, most of the slagging is from the hoity toity lot who consider anything less than a race bike to be of no value:rolleyes:

[Red Herring]

Mine's an XR650. The Honda doesn't come as Supermoto as standard so you have to do it yourself. Supermoto wheels, bigger brakes and slightly lowered suspension do add to the overall cost, but the engine is a peach, really smooth, ultra reliable, and with a pipe on it makes 50+BHP. Not quite in KTM SMR territory but strangely enough on the road you don't seem to notice. I've done 3 seasons of racing, countless road miles, several rallies and apart from oil and the odd spark plug I haven't touched the engine, and when I dyno'd it a few months ago it was still making exactly the same BHP as when I built it five years ago.

[northwind]

I think most people don't realise the difference between a street supermoto like a Duke, and a proper supermoto... I had a go on a Duke 2, loved it, but it just wasn't as mad as I'd expected- it's a superb urban bike but not really that much of a headbanger. Then, quite randomly, I was offered a go on a mate's race-prepped husky, and discovered the limits of my courage very very quickly :cool: It was like riding a sack full of fireworks, absolutely amazing, bore as much resemblance to riding the Duke as it did to riding my SV really. But something like that on the road? No thanks.

But at the same time... The Duke was a bit too neutered, it wasn't good enough at speed to be a very practical only-bike, but it wasn't mad enough to make up for that shortcoming either.

[the_lone_wolf]

Then, quite randomly, I was offered a go on a mate's race-prepped husky, and discovered the limits of my courage very very quickly :cool: It was like riding a sack full of fireworks, absolutely amazing, bore as much resemblance to riding the Duke as it did to riding my SV really. But something like that on the road? No thanks.

But at the same time... The Duke was a bit too neutered, it wasn't good enough at speed to be a very practical only-bike, but it wasn't mad enough to make up for that shortcoming either.

Yep, there's something not quite right about an "every day supermoto" - you really need to have two bikes otherwise you'll always be getting reminded of the compromise you had to make

there's nothing wrong with riding a mad bike on the road, you will never be able to keep up with the bike unless you're willing to ride like an utter tit, but you can have a lot of fun if you ride with a few like-minded folk and stick to the back roads to emphasise the incredible handling on poor surfaces, then take it to a cheap track day (think £50 for a whole day with an open track so you can ride solid for 6 hours if you want to) and you can really have a laugh...

[Mitch]

haha, nice to see there's a few other mad souls about...

mitch - imagine a bike that's even lighter and flickable than the DRZ and kicks harder and faster than the SV and you've got what it feels like to ride the 560SMR - nothing is close, 110kg and 60+ rwhp does strange things to your perception of what get up and go really is, the SV would probably sail past it after 120mph or so but for crack the throttle open shove there's nothing like the KTMs:D - see my sig below for my reaction the first time i ever rode mine (on the race track) and realised i'd been lifting the front wheel in 2nd and hadn't used anything past 1/2 throttle:eek:

banana - forgot about the CCMs, basically a DRZ with more grunt, never tried one but heard good things for the most part, most of the slagging is from the hoity toity lot who consider anything less than a race bike to be of no value:rolleyes:

Sounds great. I've also heard that the aprillia 550 is a bit of an animal too.

I see you have the yoshi on your DRZ. Have you done the rejet and 3x3 also? I'm looking to do this to mine heard it makes a good difference to the bike

[the_lone_wolf]

I see you have the yoshi on your DRZ. Have you done the rejet and 3x3 also? I'm looking to do this to mine heard it makes a good difference to the bike

it does, mine was a completely different bike, the throttle response is the most noticeable change, before it would begrudgingly accelerate when i wound it on but after it was much more eager

the DRZ forum over on www.thumpertalk.com is the place to discuss modifications to the DRZ, there's a vast wealth of knowledge over there

funnily enough, i might be selling the Yoshi pipe from mine soon, and going back to stock, as i intend to revert the bike back to stock then put off road wheels on it and go green laning, keep an eye out in the next few weeks as i might well be selling it

[ranathari]

What do you guys think of the KTM 990SM? It's really appealing to me as something to move onto when I get bored of the SV - supermoto styling and (supposedly) ability but a 170 mile tank range and luggage options too.

[xXBADGERXx]

The 990SM is about the only bike I would part ex my SV in for at the moment , but still in love with the SV at the moment , maybe in a couple of years time ;)

[yorkie_chris]

It's the handling on naff roads that draws me to a SM type bike, keep wondering whether to convert a YZ500 or similar, had one a few years ago and it seems like a really bad/good idea....

[the_lone_wolf]

What do you guys think of the KTM 990SM? It's really appealing to me as something to move onto when I get bored of the SV - supermoto styling and (supposedly) ability but a 170 mile tank range and luggage options too.

170 mile tank range? **raises eyebrow**

i'll have to ask scott the next time we're out but i didn't think his got anywhere near that, although he does ride like a maniac

the 950/990SM are great bikes, but you could probably balance two SMRs against one 990SM so they aren't the same feeling in terms of agility, but you could use one as an only bike. i'd say try one and see if you like it, more mad than a regular street bike but it's not a featherweight crazy machine like a proper moto

[vardypeeps]

You guy's are really swaying me now LOL. I think it will be something to look into when the weathwe gets nice next year and would consider a DRZ or a CCM. That KTM that you have Lone Wolf have you knocked that together yourself from an off road bike or did it come like that?

Thanks guy's for all your input & I was watching a video about that 3x3 mod on the DRZ what does it do?

[chris8886]

have a read of this months T.W.O magazine. there's (what i think is) a really good article on 3 supermotos in there. the husqvarna 510r, aprillia SVX 550 and KTM 660SMC (i think it was these) and they're basically nutters bikes from what i can gather, but it sure as hell makes me want one!

[scooby2102]

I bought a DRZ sm back in May and have to say its a great bike, not as fast as the SV but brings a massive smile to my face. Cornering is amazing, I'm no expert rider but these things are so easy to ride.

Mitch, bang on, mines is just about a year old, was gonna sell it 2 mths ago but really glad now I never managed to sell and hope to keep it for a few years now, its a crackin bike

[sinbad]

How do the insurance companies like these relatively low power, but "nutter's" bikes?

[scooby2102]

How do the insurance companies like these relatively low power, but "nutter's" bikes?


Sinbad, ref the DRZ, it was 111 quid FC last year but I added it as a 2nd bike to my current eBike policy about 1 month ago, this policy is due for renewal on 21st Nov so for the 9 weeks fully comp cover as the 2nd bike they charged me exactly nowt :D, yep, had to treble check but its correct at their end.

[Mitch]

You guy's are really swaying me now LOL. I think it will be something to look into when the weathwe gets nice next year and would consider a DRZ or a CCM. That KTM that you have Lone Wolf have you knocked that together yourself from an off road bike or did it come like that?

Thanks guy's for all your input & I was watching a video about that 3x3 mod on the DRZ what does it do?

You open up the stock hole in the airbox to 3 inch square and along with rejetting the carb, you get more power and I also think it smooths out the power delivery. Simple and cheap way for more power.

[Mitch]

How do the insurance companies like these relatively low power, but "nutter's" bikes?

I have my SV and DRZ on a multi bike policy and pay £180 fully comp for both bikes:)

[the_lone_wolf]

You guy's are really swaying me now LOL. I think it will be something to look into when the weathwe gets nice next year and would consider a DRZ or a CCM. That KTM that you have Lone Wolf have you knocked that together yourself from an off road bike or did it come like that?

Thanks guy's for all your input & I was watching a video about that 3x3 mod on the DRZ what does it do?

the 3x3 increases airflow to the engine, by modifying the carb (adding larger jets) the engine gets more fuel as well and the bike has more power, but the best thing is simply changing the stock needle in the carb to one designed for performance and throttle response instead of emmisions regulations, it makes the bike much nicer to ride

my 560SMR originally came like this:

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/3794/dscf6728nx5.jpg

it's a race bike, not designed to be used on the road so racing slicks, no DC electrical system, lights, speedo or reserve on the fuel tank, no stand, no electric start... i had to register it with the DVLA myself and fit the lights (new flywheel/stator/loom etc etc) plus a horn and obviously road legal tyres, took about 3 months to get mine done but i wasn't in a rush to finish it

a lot of KTMs are converted 525EXCs which are basically the same bike, same frame, same suspension, same engine (560 is an overbored 525) same plastics, and people just fit 17" wheels and sticky tyres

@sinbad - insurance isn't too bad, most people only bother with TPFT as they crash really well, i've been off both mine and both times you just pick them up and carry on, nothing bent or busted. basically, if you crash bad enough to break the KTMs you're going to be in a very bad way yourself and not riding for months anyway so fixing the bike is the least of your worries...

of course if you have a race bike road registered it's not on any insurer's database so you have to find a specialist insurer who'll quote, MCE did for me but most of the big names can do it, if you get a type approved 525 EXC it's a doddle. just fit a big lock as the supermotos look enough like dirt bikes to be very attractive to the scrotes

[vardypeeps]

By the way your KTM is the nuts. Very nice colour and the stickers etc suit it very well. Might look at a DRZ with them being cheaper.

[the_lone_wolf]

By the way your KTM is the nuts. Very nice colour and the stickers etc suit it very well. Might look at a DRZ with them being cheaper.
thanks, normally i find race rep stickers a bit naff on road bikes, but as i bought this bike from ady smith (see www.adysmith.co.uk (http://www.adysmith.co.uk/about-ady-smith/)) and it's a genuine race bike underneath i feel justified in leaving his race graphics on there;)

[Sean_C]

Ahh no!
Now I want one :(
Might keep an eye out for a drz to mess about with and have modified by the time my restriction is up next october..

[xXBADGERXx]

Luckypants is selling a DRZ , give him a yell and tell him xXBADGERXx sent you over :D , he was asking £2000 for it .

[lexinoo]

Mr lone wolf,you have very nice bikes!as a fun bike only,how would you rate a sv650 compared to a drz 400.?also does an sv FEEL a lot more powerful than a drz,if you could only have 1 bike out of the 2,which would you keep.?cheers.i only ask as i'm an ex drz owner on the brink of buying an sv,and i need to know i am doing the right thing.I liked the drz but it was underpowered,even with the mods done,but i dont want the hassle of owning a "proper "moto.I have never ridden an sv ,but on paper a 75-80 hp twin looks good.

[the_lone_wolf]

Mr lone wolf,you have very nice bikes!as a fun bike only,how would you rate a sv650 compared to a drz 400.?also does an sv FEEL a lot more powerful than a drz,if you could only have 1 bike out of the 2,which would you keep.?cheers.i only ask as i'm an ex drz owner on the brink of buying an sv,and i need to know i am doing the right thing.I liked the drz but it was underpowered,even with the mods done,but i dont want the hassle of owning a "proper "moto.I have never ridden an sv ,but on paper a 75-80 hp twin looks good.

in the situations where the DRZ feels underpowered the SV feels just right

in the situations where the SV feels poorly suspended the DRZ feels right

if i had miles of sweeping A road to ride on every weekend with good surfacing i'd take the SV every time, if i spent my time on dirty little country lanes then the DRZ would be a better choice. the SV does have noticeably more shove than the DRZ, which becomes apparent when overtaking at NSL speeds, however it does feel heavier and the suspension doesn't feel nearly as sorted

if i had to sell one, it would be the DRZ, but then i have another supermoto in the garage, if i didn't then it would depend on what type of riding i wanted to limit myself to, island back road blasting or touring/main road flying.

[Spokey]

in the situations where the DRZ feels underpowered the SV feels just right

in the situations where the SV feels poorly suspended the DRZ feels right

if i had miles of sweeping A road to ride on every weekend with good surfacing i'd take the SV every time, if i spent my time on dirty little country lanes then the DRZ would be a better choice. the SV does have noticeably more shove than the DRZ, which becomes apparent when overtaking at NSL speeds, however it does feel heavier and the suspension doesn't feel nearly as sorted

if i had to sell one, it would be the DRZ, but then i have another supermoto in the garage, if i didn't then it would depend on what type of riding i wanted to limit myself to, island back road blasting or touring/main road flying.

I agree with that - and I would also add that if you're thinking of an SV, you'll probably get on better with the naked version as it's more akin to the riding position of a supermoto which spoil you a bit - I couldn't get used to the S but the naked feels great.

Only thing to do is try one - but if you do, make sure you have the money because you will want an SV.

Nana

[lexinoo]

Thanks boys,it sounds like the sv is probably the better bike for me,i have got to get a ride on one soon,and i really do hope i like it because there doesnt seem to be much else out there for the same money.I did fancy a yamaha mt03,but i was very disappointed after having a go on one last week, it seemed to have less go than my drz.I dream of superdukes, and 950smrs,but the bank balance is a few grand short of one of them!

[Red Herring]

I'm reasonably fortunate in that I get to ride both my XR650 and my SV650 competitively on and off the road. I also have a bunch of mates who also have sports bikes and Supermotos, and we quite often mix and match when we go out. In the dry the SV won't live with the big sports bikes on fast A roads, but it's quite capable of leaving them on smaller twisties, especially in the wet..... The situation is similar with the SV against the supermotos. In the dry the SV can live with them on the twisties (provided there isn't to much gravel involved) and leave them on the open road, however if it rains the Supermotos have the advantage. I will say that my SV has been modified with the usual GSXR front and rear shock, plus I've fitted straight bars and lost some weight off it. Personally, unless I want to get really serious, I've found the SV to be almost the perfect compromise, so much so that I ended up doing less than 1,000 miles on my sports bike last year (and they were nearly all round a track), and I hardly touched the XR all summer.

[lexinoo]

Thanks,thats exactly what i wanted to hear!

[the_lone_wolf]

The situation is similar with the SV against the supermotos. In the dry the SV can live with them on the twisties (provided there isn't to much gravel involved) and leave them on the open road, however if it rains the Supermotos have the advantage. I will say that my SV has been modified with the usual GSXR front and rear shock, plus I've fitted straight bars and lost some weight off it.

didn't we do this before? the 170kg+ SV won't keep pace with a proper supermoto once the road gets twisty, unless the riders are completely mis-matched in terms of ability, even if the SV has lost a couple of kg, or the road is dry, or it has GSXR suspension - perhaps the definition of twisty there is different to what it means here but having spent much more time on the SV and KTM back to back since the last argument / discussion it's only highlighted the differences, and the only time the SV is going to get ahead is when the road is straight or if the SM rider has a severe skill deficiency;)

if anyone fancies a trip to the island to see what my definitions of twisty and supermoto are then let me know and we'll take a tour of the IOWTT circuit:p

[Sean_C]

I wonder if it's possible to learn to ride a supermoto, like a track day type thing. I'd definitely want to do it. Can't help thinking I'd be crap jumping on something so tall and light, though I definitely want a go..

[the_lone_wolf]

I wonder if it's possible to learn to ride a supermoto, like a track day type thing. I'd definitely want to do it. Can't help thinking I'd be crap jumping on something so tall and light, though I definitely want a go..
http://www.adysmith.co.uk/

^^^the guy i bought my 560 off knows a thing or two about supermotos, having won two british champs - he runs a supermoto school at kinsham raceway in herefordshire, which is an awesome tarmac track

if you want to practice jumps try a motocross school, there's a bunch of us SM guys going to take our bikes to www.apexmotocross.co.uk some time to practice, after one of the guys took his SXV up there and found it was much easier than you'd think

[Sean_C]

300 quid for the supermoto school, blimey.. Well, that's something worth saving for :)
Thanks!

[the_lone_wolf]

300 quid for the supermoto school, blimey.. Well, that's something worth saving for :)
Thanks!it seems expensive, but all reports are that the guy knows his stuff...

tbh it's fairly easy to pick up on the basics, and every trackday will have a few guys who race and won't mind telling you what to do to improve if you ask them:cool:

[Sean_C]

I'm not sure about the sticking your foot out thing.. :p
They look like great fun though :)

[the_lone_wolf]

I'm not sure about the sticking your foot out thing.. :p
They look like great fun though :)

on the SV it would feel completely out of place, but on a tall SM it actually feels more natural than riding knee down style, plus the bikes are so light i've saved myself from going over by simply having a foot there to kick it back up when the front slips in a corner

oh, and if you fit titanium sole slider to your boots you leave a nice trail of sparks when you go round the corners;)

[Spokey]

If I stuck my foot out I'd end up breaking my bloody leg no doubt ...
does look cool though :cool:

[the_lone_wolf]

If I stuck my foot out I'd end up breaking my bloody leg no doubt ...
does look cool though :cool:
yes, that's a downside...

just watch out doing it on the road, hitting a pothole with your heel mid corner is painful;):shock:

[Red Herring]

didn't we do this before? the 170kg+ SV won't keep pace with a proper supermoto once the road gets twisty, unless the riders are completely mis-matched in terms of ability, even if the SV has lost a couple of kg, or the road is dry, or it has GSXR suspension - perhaps the definition of twisty there is different to what it means here but having spent much more time on the SV and KTM back to back since the last argument / discussion it's only highlighted the differences, and the only time the SV is going to get ahead is when the road is straight or if the SM rider has a severe skill deficiency;)

if anyone fancies a trip to the island to see what my definitions of twisty and supermoto are then let me know and we'll take a tour of the IOWTT circuit:p

Yes we did. We are talking real roads here aren't we, you know, the ones that are open to the public, have traffic coming the other way, being able to stop in the distance we can see to be clear? Having said that I think I also gave you opportunity last time we discussed this to stack your SM up against my SV in a proper competition, closed roads and all that....you've got until about February to take me up on it. If you're as good as you reckon the British Team could use you......

[the_lone_wolf]

Yes we did. We are talking real roads here aren't we, you know, the ones that are open to the public, have traffic coming the other way, being able to stop in the distance we can see to be clear?
yes, but of course none of us have even taken a corner at a speed where you can't stop within the distance you can see is clear have we? christ, if you ride like that round a corner then blast down the straights no wonder the SV can keep pace with a moto, a C90 would have a decent chance:rolleyes:

Having said that I think I also gave you opportunity last time we discussed this to stack your SM up against my SV in a proper competition, closed roads and all that....you've got until about February to take me up on it.

can you show me where you mentioned that? i either missed it completely or dismissed it as pointless spunking off to make your own balls feel big... if you fancy a race lets try kinsham raceway, nice and twisty with a few straights where you can "leave me on the open road":rolleyes:

If you're as good as you reckon the British Team could use you......

i never said i was any good, it's that damned KTM, so fast it makes even someone like me look like rossi:rolleyes:

have you managed to get that SV down to within 60kg of the weight on my KTM yet then? or is it still an overweight underpowered barge?:smt044

[northwind]

How heavy is your KTM then? (he said, not actually stepping up, but nearly)

[the_lone_wolf]

How heavy is your KTM then? (he said, not actually stepping up, but nearly)

stock from the factory is 109.5kg with all fluids except fuel, from that i've added a tail/brake lamp, loom, horn, crya pro-bend full metal handguards, crash bobbins etc but replaced the stock steel exhaust with a full titanium system, so i'd go for 110-115kg as it stands - if i get chance tomorrow i'll borrow the scales and weigh it properly

edit: it was curiosity that killed the cat, just went out and weighed the KTM, ready to ride in full road trim with headlamp, taillamp, plate, everything listed above and a brimmed tank (i fill it from a jerry can every time i get back) - the scales they say: 57.6kg on the front wheel, 56.6 on the back with a roll of electrical tape on the seat, so 114kg fully loaded

edit2: i would weigh the SV but unlike the KTM it's too heavy to lift off the ground:D

[zsv650]

loved my kwak motocrosser the sv kills it for comfort and practical everyday riding but saying that i'd love a ccm644 to mess around on.

[northwind]

edit: it was curiosity that killed the cat, just went out and weighed the KTM, ready to ride in full road trim with headlamp, taillamp, plate, everything listed above and a brimmed tank (i fill it from a jerry can every time i get back) - the scales they say: 57.6kg on the front wheel, 56.6 on the back with a roll of electrical tape on the seat, so 114kg fully loaded


Ah hah. Then after this brief piece of fact-finding, I shall take you up on your 60 kilo challenge :cool:

[the_lone_wolf]

Ah hah. Then after this brief piece of fact-finding, I shall take you up on your 60 kilo challenge :cool:

sorry mate, challenge was never open to you:p

i knew yours has had more weight shaving done to it than lipstick mackerel's up there, but i'd be interested to hear what yours weighs in the same "road ready to ride" state - if you want to do it with no bodywork in "track mode" i'll bung the track fairings on mine and do it with a litre of fuel for "race prep" mode:p

[northwind]

In fully road legal mode, but nakedised with the standard naked-model headlight, full set of lights, toolkit and all its fluids full (and its heated grips :D) it comes in at 171kg. With the fairings on it's probably about 175-177, but I've not weighed it properly like that. Once the other dymag goes in it'll be below 170 and 175 respectively though.

Sort of a shame I'm so slow really :smt090

[zsv650]

the more kg the better i want more metal for my money not less :D kwak used to weigh less than a 100kg (sod all) sv 170 odd the old s was probably much more though with all the crap that was on it :D

[rob13]

Arent the newer 690 KTM's an update on the LC4? From what Ive read theyre a lot smoother and have a balancer fitted so theyre less vibey

I dont want something balls out hooligan as my next bike, but I am drawn to a trail/streetmoto bike due to the riding position but I need to look for something thats potentially all day comfortable (with stops) and could potentially be suitable for riding 3-4days on the trot. Im looking at something like the Aprilia Peg Strada/Factory but keep on hoping that the KTM 690 will be anywhere near as comfortable. Itll certainly be more hooligan though

[the_lone_wolf]

Arent the newer 690 KTM's an update on the LC4? From what Ive read theyre a lot smoother and have a balancer fitted so theyre less vibey

I dont want something balls out hooligan as my next bike, but I am drawn to a trail/streetmoto bike due to the riding position but I need to look for something thats potentially all day comfortable (with stops) and could potentially be suitable for riding 3-4days on the trot. Im looking at something like the Aprilia Peg Strada/Factory but keep on hoping that the KTM 690 will be anywhere near as comfortable. Itll certainly be more hooligan though
a 690SM would be better than the SMC version, this guy rode his to the swiss alps and back, obviously not as suitable as a pan european et al but i know which i'd prefer to ride up the stelvio:

http://www.ktmforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=22022

the 690's are more of an overhaul than a tweak of the old LC4 engine, now they have EFI and are pretty much like any other bike in terms of reliability and service intervals, not balls to the wall but a lot more hooligan than your average bike

[rob13]

I am very tempted with a 690, If the seat isnt too bad, and the vibes are controlled then Im sure you could bolt on a slight visor to the front light, fit some handguards, heated grips, and H&B rack and be ready to tour on it.

Im just waiting on Cloggsy seeing this thread, if he still comes on here....

[the_lone_wolf]

I am very tempted with a 690, If the seat isnt too bad, and the vibes are controlled then Im sure you could bolt on a slight visor to the front light, fit some handguards, heated grips, and H&B rack and be ready to tour on it.
you can buy a gel seat as a hard parts aftermarket item on most KTMs if the original one doesn't work out, and there's plenty of options should you want to try and tour it - i haven't ridden a 690 so can't comment on the vibe issue, the old LC4 engine was like a road drill however, so it could only really get better:D

was Cloggsy the guy who had a mare with a KTM? i've heard a few stories of people having problems with bikes but generally they're either old (pre 2000) or the new RC8, which was bound to be problematic given that KTM designed a whole new model in a market they'd never tried before. from what i've seen they don't seem to be drastically worse or better than other manufacturers when it comes to that kind of thing

[rob13]

Cloggsy had a 950SM which was problematic. I think he had quite an issue with the dealer as well which led to him taking them to court (M&S in Newcastle). Ive never bought a bike from them but theyre a big outfit and im surprised that with the size of them they would have a universally bad rep

[the_lone_wolf]

Cloggsy had a 950SM which was problematic. I think he had quite an issue with the dealer as well which led to him taking them to court (M&S in Newcastle). Ive never bought a bike from them but theyre a big outfit and im surprised that with the size of them they would have a universally bad rep
tbh i think it's like any bike, there's always going to be a minority who have problems and when the dealer doesn't play fair either it leaves you with a bitter taste, i know scott here on the island has a 950SM and hasn't had any problems with it, but if he did it'd go to one of the dealers that gets a good rep within the community:cool:

[Red Herring]

yes, but of course none of us have even taken a corner at a speed where you can't stop within the distance you can see is clear have we? christ, if you ride like that round a corner then blast down the straights no wonder the SV can keep pace with a moto, a C90 would have a decent chance:rolleyes:



can you show me where you mentioned that? i either missed it completely or dismissed it as pointless spunking off to make your own balls feel big... if you fancy a race lets try kinsham raceway, nice and twisty with a few straights where you can "leave me on the open road":rolleyes:




i never said i was any good, it's that damned KTM, so fast it makes even someone like me look like rossi:rolleyes:

have you managed to get that SV down to within 60kg of the weight on my KTM yet then? or is it still an overweight underpowered barge?:smt044

Getting the destinct impression you are taking this personally. As you say your KTM is certainly a very impressive machine and I have no doubt in the right hands it's quite capable of going very fast indeed. I also know that you have to be fairly talented, and very committed, to get that last bit out of it and unless you are going to take it onto a track buying a machine such as yours is not normally a sensible idea for your average road rider. There are of course exceptions to every rule and if indeed you are in the habit of riding the way you describe then quite frankly I would prefer you to stay on your island, that way I won't have to worry about meeting you coming the other way. The invitation was actually genuine, but I can see it wasn't taken as such so no loss there, or at least not to me. You can stay in your own little world and not venture out where reality might just not be so appealing.
Good luck. RH

[the_lone_wolf]

Getting the destinct impression you are taking this personally. As you say your KTM is certainly a very impressive machine and I have no doubt in the right hands it's quite capable of going very fast indeed. I also know that you have to be fairly talented, and very committed, to get that last bit out of it and unless you are going to take it onto a track buying a machine such as yours is not normally a sensible idea for your average road rider. There are of course exceptions to every rule and if indeed you are in the habit of riding the way you describe then quite frankly I would prefer you to stay on your island, that way I won't have to worry about meeting you coming the other way. The invitation was actually genuine, but I can see it wasn't taken as such so no loss there, or at least not to me. You can stay in your own little world and not venture out where reality might just not be so appealing.
Good luck. RH

so it IS still an overweight, underpowered barge?;)

[Red Herring]

so it IS still an overweight, underpowered barge?;)

If you say so mate. It would be nice to have more power and a bit less weight, but it seems to have done alright so far. The bike was built specifically for competing in special stage rallies which are basically closed sections of country lane ( as in no other traffic) linked together by stretches of open road. I've got a fair few years experience at such events and been reasonably successful. How can you qualify your opinion?

[the_lone_wolf]

How can you qualify your opinion?
By owning both and comparing the two bikes back to back, by doing hundreds and thousands of miles on each then basing an opinion on that, i never claimed to be some kind of riding god, but i do know which bike is faster and more capable on twisty roads - if you have to have the SV "built specifically for competing in special stage rallies which are basically closed sections of country lane" it's nothing like the SV anyone else is going to buy... i'm sure you'll say how you've ridden (and raced) your own personal "built for the purpose" SV and then borrowed a mate's moto for 5 minutes and decided that you're faster on your own bike, quel suprise:rolleyes: - you don't need a distinguished career as a professional racer to know that 175kg >> 114kg either...

Quod erat demonstrandum...

[Red Herring]

By owning both and comparing the two bikes back to back, by doing hundreds and thousands of miles on each then basing an opinion on that, i never claimed to be some kind of riding god, but i do know which bike is faster and more capable on twisty roads - if you have to have the SV "built specifically for competing in special stage rallies which are basically closed sections of country lane" it's nothing like the SV anyone else is going to buy... i'm sure you'll say how you've ridden (and raced) your own personal "built for the purpose" SV and then borrowed a mate's moto for 5 minutes and decided that you're faster on your own bike, quel suprise:rolleyes: - you don't need a distinguished career as a professional racer to know that 175kg >> 114kg either...

Quod erat demonstrandum...

Eh no. I think the spec of my SV is fairly common, GSXR front end, rear shock, junk some of the non-essentials etc etc. Three seasons of racing Supermotos and five years of Rallying one ought to have given me a bit of experience there as well. As I've already said I have no doubt that in the right hands and on the right track your SMR is the faster bike, however the reality is that in the real world those circumstance don't present themselves very often. I've also that that if you are in the habit of riding on the road in a manner where you can exploit that small advantage then stay away from me please, and my family......

[the_lone_wolf]

Eh no. I think the spec of my SV is fairly common
not really, very few people go to the lengths of modifying the suspension of their SVs, most just realise the limitations and buy a better bike...

so which is it? "built specifically for competing in special stage rallies" or "fairly common, with a few suspension mods" - it's just a shame there isn't a magical "lose 60kg" mod that makes the experience less like piloting an ocean liner and more like riding a light bike:smt043

[tigersaw]

http://www.gleni.it/images/ostrich-handbags.jpg

[the_lone_wolf]

http://www.gleni.it/images/ostrich-handbags.jpg

have at you sir...

:D

[rob13]

getting back O/T, theres a review of the Duke 690, Pegaso & XT660 in RiDE this month. For those that havent read it, the Duke has a peach of a motor but is a real hooligan tool. It gets criticism for its riding position. The Pegaso is an easy lazy ride and is the better for everyday riding but is criticised for its dated looks while the XT660 has a real trail bike look but has the weakest motor.

For those that have ridden 690 KTMs, can any of you provide an opinion for which is the best "all rounder" to go for? The Duke seems to be a bit too focused for it to be long distance comfortable

[Red Herring]

http://www.gleni.it/images/ostrich-handbags.jpg

Mine's the red one......obviously behind but not quite so full.....!!

[the_lone_wolf]

Mine's the red one......obviously behind but not quite so full.....!!

nope, this is yours:

http://www.vvjournal.com/images/heavy_luggage.jpg

:smt058

[the_lone_wolf]

For those that have ridden 690 KTMs, can any of you provide an opinion for which is the best "all rounder" to go for? The Duke seems to be a bit too focused for it to be long distance comfortable

haven't ridden them but would expect the normal SM to be more distance comfortable than the SMC, but the best thing to do would be to phone a dealer and get some test rides, as riding position is subjective...

[zsv650]

not really, very few people go to the lengths of modifying the suspension of their SVs, most just realise the limitations and buy a better bike...

so which is it? "built specifically for competing in special stage rallies" or "fairly common, with a few suspension mods" - it's just a shame there isn't a magical "lose 60kg" mod that makes the experience less like piloting an ocean liner and more like riding a light bike:smt043
if you think a sv is like piloting a barge you really need to try some bigger bikes.:p

[the_lone_wolf]

if you think a sv is like piloting a barge you really need to try some bigger bikes.:pit's all relative

the SV is a barge relative to the 560 in the same way a harley davidson is a barge compared to the SV;)

[zsv650]

weight doesnt matter it's how well it's balanced that counts just ask somebody who rides a pan.

[the_lone_wolf]

weight doesnt matter it's how well it's balanced that counts
the handling is affected by where the weigh is located on the bike, but you can't hide 60kg on the SV and not notice it when riding back to back with something much lighter, i promise you:p - if anything the SV's mass is lower than the 560 but the difference is obvious;)

[Red Herring]

Dear Lone Wolf.
Nobody is disputing that the SMR is lighter, faster, more expensive, and definitely more orange than the SV. If I wanted to go Supermoto racing I would pick your SMR over my SV every time. But the OP didn't want to go racing, he was talking about a fun bike that he could commute on, which means he wants to enjoy riding it, not taking it apart every weekend. He needs a bike with a degree of flexibility. I think he came to that conclusion around about page five. If I was given a choice of the two bikes I would definitely have yours, but then I'd sell it, buy mine and then buy the missus something with the change.....That is because for what I want to do the SV is in my view the "better" bike, but it's a free world and you're big enough to make your own decisions, and your needs may well be different to mine. I'm sure the OP will have enjoyed this banter and will have been able to make a more informed decision as a result if it, which is great because that is what a Forum is all about.

[the_lone_wolf]

Dear Lone Wolf.
Nobody is disputing that the SMR is lighter, faster, more expensive, and definitely more orange than the SV.
it is isn't it, now hold that thought...
But the OP didn't want to go racing, he was talking about a fun bike that he could commute on, which means he wants to enjoy riding it, not taking it apart every weekend.
i'm casually ignoring the fallacy that you'll be taking the engine of a 560SMR apart on a regular basis (which unless you count removing three plugs to change the oil as "taking it apart" is a load of the proverbial), show me an example of where i recommended my bike as suitable for what he wants...

go on...

i'll wait...

...


...


back yet? didn't find one did you?

he asked about several models, i gave him my opinion of those models and made recommendations of an LC4 or a DRZ as a more practical daily use supermoto...

oddly enough he didn't ask about the SV, assuming he is registered here because he already has or has had one he knows what they're like and is asking about a supermoto because he fancies something different.

so the thread gets onto the DRZ and someone asks me to compare the DRZ to the SV, then you wade in asserting that the SV is faster than the supermotos, something you later concede is incorrect (see first quote above). just because the SV is more practical as a daily bike doesn't change the fact.

we all have to weigh up what we're looking for a bike and buy the one most suitable, and as a daily ride or distance commuter there's no doubt in my mind which of the machines in my garage i'd be grabbing the keys for, but on a day like today with perfect blue skies and island roads the decision is just as crystal clear

so... back on topic then... "Does anyone have the experience of owning a supermoto???"

:smt044

[lexinoo]

Does anyone know which is the fastest out of a sv 650 or a supermoto???

[the_lone_wolf]

Does anyone know which is the fastest out of a sv 650 or a supermoto???:smt044:smt044:smt044

[zunkus]

I live in Malta, a small island with very poor roads generally so a Supermoto makes more sense than my SV for daily commutes. I'm leaving the SV for small tours in Sicily with the missus and for Sunday morning blasts. There's no nead for big cc's, I'm actually using a Hyosung XRX125SM for communting but thought that this bike might be more fun, what do you think?
http://www.yamaha-motor.jp/mc/lineup/sportsbike/wr250x/img/cmn_product_001.jpg

[Red Herring]

i
so... back on topic then... "Does anyone have the experience of owning a supermoto???"

:smt044
Yup, see post 18 and 43. Perhaps you'd like to read them before suggesting I "waded in". What I did was compare the SV to a Supermoto, pointing out that they both have their advantages and disadvantages. You on the other hand seem intent on stating the blindingly obvious, that your SMR is lighter than an SV. So perhaps we could bring some purpose to continuing this debate by you explaining how being 60kg lighter is an advantage when riding on the road?

[lexinoo]

This thread is great!Anyone know which is the lighter bike,a sv650 or KTM 560smr???

[21QUEST]

Thread reminded me of THIS--CLICKY (http://www.illwillpress.com/FOR33.html) :roll: :D


Ben

[Red Herring]

Thread reminded me of THIS--CLICKY (http://www.illwillpress.com/FOR33.html) :roll: :D


Ben

That's brilliant, I must try harder.....

[the_lone_wolf]

So perhaps we could bring some purpose to continuing this debate by you explaining how being 60kg lighter is an advantage when riding on the road?
i'd have thought to a seasoned rider it would be obvious, the most compelling reason a lighter bike is better is because given fairly similar examples (no HD / GSXR comparisons please) a lighter bike = a more agile bike with better acceleration given the same power output, two qualities that make a bike more fun to ride (unless you get your kicks by simply going very fast in a straight line) - nobody out there wishes they could just add a few kilos to their bikes to make it less manoeuvrable. you're obviously setting me up for a reply of "road riding isn't the same as racing" so although a lighter bike is going to be faster that's not a primary concern on the road (although for a road and track bike it probably is) - you could also make a case that it makes a bike much more capable of performing emergency manoeuvres should the case arise, a lighter bike stops more quickly, turns and swerves more quickly and allows you to adjust your line mid corner more easily - all things that could well save your life some day, so look on it as an investment in safety:rolleyes:

perhaps you could outline why you think being 60kg heavier is a beneficial thing?;)

oh, and the reason i keep stating a blindingly obvious fact is that it's a great way to get a rise, i was wondering how long you'd keep going at it...:smt044

[northwind]

I mainly made my bike lighter so it's possible for me to push it up hills. But it's still better than a supermoto, because it has a windshield and a top box.

[the_lone_wolf]

But it's still better than a supermoto, because it has a windshield and a top box.
touché...

;)

[Red Herring]

I don't think I need to set you up for anything, you're doing just fine on your own.
I think even I would struggle to find a reason it is good to be 60kg heavier. Light is good, but it comes at a price. In order to make a bike light you either need to use more exotic materials, or less of them. This is why your SMR is made with the bare minimum of anything, and what is there costs a fortune to replace. That's fine if you are prepared to pay the premium that attracts. I simply question the need to go to such extremes unless you are actually intending to go racing where you may be able to exploit that advantage.
Your angle on lighter bikes being safer is an interesting one, especially in view of your earlier comments about how your bike brings out the hooligan in you. I guess there is certainly less chance of you doing your back in when you are picking it out of the ditch. I think a little common sense has to prevail here, clearly 116kg takes less stopping than 170kg, but the margin is so small I'd like to think most riders wouldn't need it to stay out of trouble...

ps: you get a rise.......I hadn't realised you lacked so much confidence in your debating ability...

[yorkie_chris]

Actually isn't the longer, heavier bike going to be far easier to stop in a hurry? Especially if that long, heavy bike has a lower CoG. Far less inclined to stoppies.

[Red Herring]

Actually isn't the longer, heavier bike going to be far easier to stop in a hurry? Especially if that long, heavy bike has a lower CoG. Far less inclined to stoppies.

Prior to the weekend I thought the SV was pretty good on the brakes, but I did a few laps around Lydden on Saturday and in the end one of the problems I had was the back coming up, especially down into Chessons where you are changing from left to right whilst hard on the brakes. My mate who was following me on a KTM Supermoto (only a 640 SMC Woof, not a proper one like yours) said it looked hilarious.

[21QUEST]

Prior to the weekend I thought the SV was pretty good on the brakes, but I did a few laps around Lydden on Saturday and in the end one of the problems I had was the back coming up, especially down into Chessons where you are changing from left to right whilst hard on the brakes. My mate who was following me on a KTM Supermoto (only a 640 SMC Woof, not a proper one like yours) said it looked hilarious.
Sounds like a 'setup' issue.


Ben