late for work and bikes playing up

[AndyBrad]

hi folks.

jumped on the bike this morning. let it idle with a bit of choke while i pushed it round the front. got 200 yards down the road (no choke) and it started backfiring. gave it a bit of throttle and it got worse. stalledtwice. seems ok on idle but as soon as you put load on it its like its misfiring and backfiring.

Any ideas. Argh!

[Dangerous Dave]

Check your plugs

[AndyBrad]

got to work on it, parked up and let it think for 10 mins then statrted it. ran lumpy to start then after another 5 mins got better.


ideas? im thinking overfuling when i put the choke on.


and what do you mean check the plugs?

[Scoobs]

and what do you mean check the plugs?

Sounds like the spark plugs are wet or the leads are breaking down. Take them out (probably just the front plug behind the radiator), clean it up and pop it back in.

[embee]

Don't leave it idling on choke to "warm up". It doesn't do anything any favours, believe me.

The bores and combustion chambers don't warm up very quickly when idling so there's lots of time for condensation (combustion gas is basically nitrogen, CO2 and water) and soot formation, the plugs get wet fouling (water and soot, very good at conducting electricity and preventing sparks), oil gets contaminated, bores and rings see high wear rates etc.

Double check your choke plungers are closing off properly, and when going out on the bike just start it, let it settle for maybe 20-30sec by which time it ought to run pretty well off choke, and then ride off gently.

This is getting like a broken record. :smt015

[AndyBrad]

never had a problem before not using the choke. just thourght it might help it warm up a little quicker = more fun sooner. so wrong :(

[embee]

Sorry, didn't mean to sound like preaching.

This is also one of the reasons I recommend iridium plugs, they are better at starting when cold, you can usually get the choke off sooner due to slightly better ignitability with the small electrodes, they spark at lower voltages due to charge concentration on the small tip so are less prone to fouling and usually ease starting with a low battery.

Also double check for water in fuel, drain the carb bowls which can get water collecting especially during colder weather, when it gets colder still maybe try Shell V-power or similar fuel, and perhaps the odd dose of Pro-fst (http://www.silkoleneoil.com/techtip7.htm) to help stop carb icing.

[Lozzo]

never had a problem before not using the choke. just thourght it might help it warm up a little quicker = more fun sooner. so wrong :(

I use time on the road warming the engine as time spent warming the tyres as well. Only once both are warm can I give it hoonage. Warming the engine alone lulls you into a false sense of security.

On track I use tyre warmers but warm the engine up properly before I take them off and go out to play.

[yorkie_chris]

ideas? im thinking overfuling when i put the choke on.

That's what it's meant to do.

[AndyBrad]

That's what it's meant to do.

Aye good point :) surely its not supposed to flood it though? or cause the backfirng i was getting?

Im having a bad morning today go easy :)

[yorkie_chris]

It will do if you leave it on on a hot engine.

I use the choke (idle enrichment, not a proper choke but hey de ho) for a couple of seconds, turn it off as soon as it will run smoothly.

[Dangerous Dave]

I use the choke (idle enrichment, not a proper choke but hey de ho) for a couple of seconds, turn it off as soon as it will run smoothly.
+ 1, don't keep it on when you are riding down the road as you are over fuelling.

I start the bike with choke (if needed) and then put my helmet on and remove the choke.

[AndyBrad]

oh right

i awways saw it as like a fast idle with a bit of extra fuel. Doh. ill get my coat. cheers chaps.

[captainsmelly]

apologies, i'm butting in. very rude, sorry. i've got a similar problem, bike will not idle off choke until it has been run for a few minutes. i always try and only run it choked for the shortest possible time but it spluters, revs drop and it dies. whythatthen?

[yorkie_chris]

Not exactly unheard of, perhaps your idle is too low or the carbs need balancing

[Dangerous Dave]

bike will not idle off choke until it has been run for a few minutes. i always try and only run it choked for the shortest possible time but it spluters, revs drop and it dies.

perhaps your idle is too low or the carbs need balancing
+ 1, first two things to look at.

[captainsmelly]

ok. idle's (when warm) at 1400, steady, no hunting. occasional pop from 'zorst. i'll get it sorted next week when somebody's doing a bit of work to it. cheers andybrad for raising the issue, i thought it was normal until now. thank's DD and YC

[AndyBrad]

RIGHT
struggled again this morning. no choke at all. set off and it just had no power. pinned throttle had the bike topping out at 5k revs and the bike struggled. Had a bit of knocking but after about 3 miles it spluttered and then went like the clappers again.


Your thourghts please folks? Im thinking it was wet yesterday so damp front plug?

[yorkie_chris]

Sounds like it

[Dangerous Dave]

Im thinking it was wet yesterday so damp front plug?
You are thinking in the right way....

Do you have a fender extender fitted to your SV, I can't see one in your Avatar....

http://www.pyramid-plastics.co.uk/catalog/images/05010.jpg

[AndyBrad]

i do not have a fender extender. is there an easy way you can attac them without bolts? and look swish as well?

[Dangerous Dave]

Glue them on, rivet them one.... do a search as there is plenty on here (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=117156&highlight=fender+extender) about them.

Available here (http://www.pyramid-plastics.co.uk/catalog/index.php?cPath=1_95&osCsid=639715b994f4b603d5d06d119cdab41a), oh.... and don't get the carbon look as it is very tacky!

[dyzio]

Wouldn't attach it no bolts, they don't look bad IMO,

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4864/20075c095c085cbikepics1mi0.jpg

The other thing you should get is some silicone grease from Maplins (part no RE90X), and smear it around the plug cap.
http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/300/re81.jpg (http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/full/re81.jpg)

[AndyBrad]

oooh silicone grease.

might have to get some of that

is there a knack to getting to the front plug without unbolting the rad?

[dyzio]

Don't complain, you have a nekkid.
Just undo the horn, lower rad bolt, and loosen the two top rad bolts. Easy.

[Dangerous Dave]

Don't complain, you have a nekkid.
Just undo the horn, lower rad bolt, and loosen the two top rad bolts. Easy.
Rad should then swing forward a bit to make access a little easier.

[AndyBrad]

ok ive given it a good doucing of wd40 last night and had a looksee. Carnt see much tbh.

Howeevr this morning (dry) on the way to work. it seems to be a little lumpy when cold. not like when it was missing but almost like its thinking about it. Sounds strange i know.

[Dangerous Dave]

ok ive given it a good doucing of wd40 last night and had a looksee.
Make sure you clean out the drainage hole too....

http://forums.sv650.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2149&d=1220373215

Howeevr this morning (dry) on the way to work. it seems to be a little lumpy when cold. not like when it was missing but almost like its thinking about it. Sounds strange i know.
Cold enough for Carb Icing?

[yorkie_chris]

Nah hasn't been the mix of cold and damp for it as of late.

[Dangerous Dave]

Nah hasn't been the mix of cold and damp for it as of late.
True, but I don't know what the weather is like around the country.

[AndyBrad]

Make sure you clean out the drainage hole too....

http://forums.sv650.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2149&d=1220373215


Cold enough for Carb Icing?


ooooh whats that spring for?

off to look for my hole now.

[Dangerous Dave]

ooooh whats that spring for?
Race exhaust system

[AndyBrad]

oh, seems to be doing nowt thats all.?

Ok stuck a paperclip in the hole and it appears to be free. Started it up and its still a little spluttery. Took the plug cap off and had a looksee and not a lot tbh. not had the plug out as its a pain just moving the rad. It seems to be on initial pickup like its missing . Get it going and give it some stick and it seems to be ok 90% of the time. its that initial twist of the throttle where it splutters.

[yorkie_chris]

Bring it down my house and we have a look

[vardypeeps]

Probley best getting that plug out and having a look. Not sure if the naked's have raditor fans but if it does undo the three holding it to the back of the radiator and you can drop it right down infront of the front cylinder.

[Dangerous Dave]

oh, seems to be doing nowt thats all.?
Its holding my front header on, different set up to OEM.

[AndyBrad]

Ok folks,

Right setting off from work last night started on the button as per usual. No problems there, gave it a few revs (in neutral) and it seemed well and good. Set off and it was struggling. When its in gear and going along it is like its only running on one cylinder. Just about to join the ring road in hudds and it cut out mid corner making me do a speedway style slide to a halt. Scared me bloody ****less tbh. Anyway started it again and got it onto the ring road and it really wasn’t happy so swung it around to work. Let it idle for a few mins and it seemed to eb better. Still rough as but at least I could pile the revs on and get home.

Got going and made it to Halfords and got some wynns dry fuel. I had seen loads of posts about it and also saw that it helped cold starting. Result. Dropped half a bottle in the tank and after it had been left to think about it while I was in there it started on the button and was fine all the 5 miles home.

Come to this morning. I thought right. Started it up after several attempts (thought the battery was going to go flat. Needed some choke as well which is very unusual but managed to get it started. So left it while I had breaky. Now got it out front and it was just the same fine on idle and revs but as soon as it needs some torque then it struggles. I needed 5k just to get through Brighouse! Stopped at crowtrees garage and gave it lots of revs (6k) and it would hunt about +_500rpm after about 2-3 mins it started to even out and it was much better. Switched it off and left it for a couple of mins. Started it up and its fine again. Ride in was great but it had taken all of 20+ mins of warming up!

So any more thoughts gents? Im thinking of just picking up 2 new plugs (they were last done about 2.5k miles ago) but its really spoiling the bike tbh. Especially as its my only transport at the mo.

Chris are you free wed night?

[Lozzo]

I lay bets on a dodgy LT connection to the coil.

If you think it's a fuelling issue, it's usually ignition... and vice versa.

[AndyBrad]

Any ideas of a pic? Or where that is?

[Lozzo]

Follow the thick wires from the spark plugs up to under the tank, then check the connections on the smaller wires that connect to the plastic blocks the thick wires runs out of.

Excuse the very basic manner I explained it in, but you don't appear to have too much mechanical knowledge, so calling them HT leads, LT leads and coils wouldn't make much sense to you.

[AndyBrad]

OK CHEERS,

YUP IM NOT RIGHT CLEVER :)

jUST GIVE THE CONENCTIONS A NIP UP THEN?

[yorkie_chris]

Stop shouting. Nothing to nip up, just check they're clean and connected.

[dizzyblonde]

Take my advice as hes offered a couple of folks in the area,and yourself, take it to YCs house, he'll have a good look.......and get it right for you.

[AndyBrad]

Aye more than willing dizzy :) Just wanting to know when he's free :) And how many beers/ciggies hes after :)

[AndyBrad]

lot of smilies there :)

[yorkie_chris]

Free all day today, pack of golden virginia, some green rizlies and slim filter tips please :-D

[dizzyblonde]

tea duty and cake* usually a good foot to start on..lol ;-)





*actually that only works for me!

[AndyBrad]

Just had a quick nosy and the connections are all there and well, urm connected. started up fine now and didnt hunt as much but then again its genrally after its run for a few 100 yards or so.

Going to try and get some golden virgina now :)

[AndyBrad]

ok chap. i hope this is the right stuff. There was a nice goth lady who took pitty on my when i asked for virgins :(

oh i should probably say i rode it to the shop (200yards) gott here lovely. started it up again and it was lumpy as feck. turned it off and back on and it was smoother but you could tell it wasnt happy.

[yorkie_chris]

Lol!!

That's the stuff :-D

[AndyBrad]

Ok folks I thought I would let you know how things went.

Got to Yorkie Chris’s last night and he set to work on my bike straight away. Basically he’s taken the carbs off, blown them through and given them a little fettle. Taken the choke cable to bits. And discovered that the rear plunger bit was solid with rust. After giving it a bit of a lube up it’s a lot lot better. Having a feel of chris’s plunger (no jokes please) its obvious that there’s something not right with mine. This meant that the rear cylinder has been over fuelling (obvious when we took the plugs out to find them very wet and very black). So lubed everything up and popped it back together and he even balanced the carbs.

Now unfortunately I think the choke cable is past it and ill need another (on order) but after he’s had a little fettle and balanced the carbs the bike is lovely to ride once its going. Its soo much smoother from the off and through the rev range. Surprising as I wouldn’t have said they were that far out myself but it just goes to show what a difference it makes. Basically im a happy bunny with the bike once its running but at least we think we know what the problem is now so that can be sorted in the near future I hope. I would recommend Chris to anyone in the area as hes not only a sound gent but also knows what he’s on about. So thanks again chap. And I owe you one.

[yorkie_chris]

Virgins very well recieved :-P

It's the choke that's made the big difference to how it rides, the balance wasn't that far out. Now to diagnose other problem :-P

[AndyBrad]

got new plugs today and have ordered the choke cable (bargin at 8 quid i thought) anything else you can think of?

[AndyBrad]

Bloody hell, new bike this morning. took a little persuasion (sp) without the choke but once going no problems what so ever. Goes well and is a lot quieter. Im thinking was the airbox loose chris? because now its a lot smoother/quieter.

the bikes back in my good books now :)

[hallasv]

Been riding for 4-5 weeks now, so been following this thread closely.
On our A2 test, it was taught to always start with the choke on (was using 125's however!) My bike seems to struggle to start with no choke on really, so have it on for 20 seconds then take it off. Especially so now with the cold mornings! Runs fine after that really, idle is around 1300-1400 rpm, seems to cut out if bit lower unless been riding for a whiiillleeee.

Is this the right start up procedure or signs of anythng else?

[dizzyblonde]

aye, thats fine hun.
Neither of my bikes start without a little short burst of choke. It doesn't need to be on long at all. Once its got a hold (20 secs maybe less) I take it off, go put my helmet on and lock the back door, once I get round to the front of the house the bikes are fine to go

[yorkie_chris]

jolly good. I reckon eliminating the fact of the mixture being rich at the bottom, and lean everywhere else will have helped somewhat :-P

Probably improving now, I would guess that the carbon is burning off the plugs. Best thing for it would be taking it round some twisties for half an hour and thrash the ballocks off it.

Lesson in life, don't buy anything more complex than a kiddies push-along scooter from daz brown...

[dizzyblonde]

Lesson in life, don't buy anything more complex than a kiddies push-along scooter from daz brown...

never buy anything off Daz Brown....:smt081

[yorkie_chris]

I bought:
http://marc-abramowitz.com/wp-content/l3p_lego_car.jpg

And the VIN plate had been filed off it....

[dizzyblonde]

I'm surprised he didn't try selling Matts TZR frame, that he had up there after his accident and swear blind it were straight...lol

[AndyBrad]

aye the little bit of choke to start sounds fine i would have thourght. the problem with mine is it was one on you couldnt turn the choke off. Hence the problems with it running from the off.


Cheers guys your scaring me about the bike now. im guessing it was actually a thundercat before i got it or something..........

in all fairness he was good to me and even offered to show me how to adjust the chain up when needed (still doesnt need it 1k on, is that right?)

[AndyBrad]

I bought:
http://marc-abramowitz.com/wp-content/l3p_lego_car.jpg

And the VIN plate had been filed off it....


my lego cars never had bonnets. gutted :(

[AndyBrad]

right folks. after this weekends run and it working fine this morning im going to say the problems gone. YAY


however ive also noticed its a bit more tappety in the engine dept. do you think i might have broke it with the missfiring?

[yorkie_chris]

They tap a bit anyway, pop round when you're bored and I'll have a listen.