View Full Version : BP Ultimate?
I know this issue has been aired before, but only (as far as I know) with an SV bias.
I always whacked a tank of 97 unleaded in the SV every 5-10 tanks full as I was lead to believe the detergents are good for the engine. So stuck with it knowing that there was no performance gains.
This morning I was almost on fumes on the CBR and pulled into a petrol station and decided to go for BP Ultimate, just thought about keeping the clean engine and nothing more.
The question is can the performance of the CBR-rr be affected by the better juice?
I got on it to come home and the thing felt more lively than before, I was thinking no can't be, but try as I might to be objective I definitely thought I felt a difference.
So did I?
is it a higher octane thats probably what does it though i dont know didnt really do much for the curvy sv havnt tried it in the pointy though a rr's a different beast altogether.
Biker_Billy
13-10-08, 07:46 PM
Interesting you should mention this....on the CBR I have found that if I use super UL I get around 15-20 miles more to a tank.
I have also found this on some cars which I've tried it on too...
On the M3 I used to have, it did make it run sweeter, cant say I've noticed a difference in the CBR (apart from consumption).
I know that on a pointy it makes no performance differnce due to knock sensors or something like that but wondered if the Honda was different, it definitely felt it.
Blue_SV650S
13-10-08, 07:52 PM
Placebo
Placebo
Yeah I thought it may be so, but I didn't expect a difference in the first place which threw me a bit.
Biker_Billy
13-10-08, 07:59 PM
Placebo
Maybe, but not in all circumstances...
I do a regular trip from Cornwall to Yorkshire - 330 miles each way, almost all motorway / dualie. If I use 97ron in the Audi, I tend to get 470 miles to a tank. If I use std UL I get 430. I don't notice any difference in performance, but the range improves.
Happens every time I try it.
Read an article in a car mag once, they tested shell optimax, tesco 99ron, and bp ultimate. the car they used was an astra vxr, the tesco gave biggest gain narrowly from shell and the bp fuel actually decreased power slightly (bp claimed a dodgy batch of sample petrol). From what I can remember the tesco and shell gave the car an extra 10bhp (approx). The article also stated that the engine ecu takes about 60 miles for it to register the different fuel octane, so if bikes react in a similar way it is possible that you felt some gain,although maybe not straight away.
Biker_Billy
13-10-08, 08:04 PM
I did find that BP ultimate made no difference in the M3, but optimax and other super UL's did give a slight improvement.
Blue_SV650S
13-10-08, 08:05 PM
Maybe, but not in all circumstances...
I do a regular trip from Cornwall to Yorkshire - 330 miles each way, almost all motorway / dualie. If I use 97ron in the Audi, I tend to get 470 miles to a tank. If I use std UL I get 430. I don't notice any difference in performance, but the range improves.
Happens every time I try it.
Does your Audi have a knock sensor? ...
As for your pocket, is/was the Super unleaded <9% more expensive? :scratch:
Blue_SV650S
13-10-08, 08:06 PM
Read an article in a car mag once, they tested shell optimax, tesco 99ron, and bp ultimate. the car they used was an astra vxr, the tesco gave biggest gain narrowly from shell and the bp fuel actually decreased power slightly (bp claimed a dodgy batch of sample petrol). From what I can remember the tesco and shell gave the car an extra 10bhp (approx). The article also stated that the engine ecu takes about 60 miles for it to register the different fuel octane, so if bikes react in a similar way it is possible that you felt some gain,although maybe not straight away.
Is there a single bike on the market with a 'knock sensor'?!?!? :scratch:
Is there a single bike on the market with a 'knock sensor'?!?!? :scratch:
Don't know, read post #4 ?
Biker_Billy
13-10-08, 08:15 PM
Does your Audi have a knock sensor? ...
As for your pocket, is/was the Super unleaded <9% more expensive? :scratch:
Audi does have a knock sensor. The S UL was 1.16 / litre, over std UL which was 1.06 / litre. It makes the cost per mile virtually the same. Nevertheless, the mileage did improve.
Blue_SV650S
13-10-08, 08:23 PM
Audi does have a knock sensor. The S UL was 1.16 / litre, over std UL which was 1.06 / litre. It makes the cost per mile virtually the same. Nevertheless, the mileage did improve.
In that case I am not surprised there was a performance/MPG difference! ;)
Biker_Billy
13-10-08, 08:27 PM
In that case I am not surprised there was a performance/MPG difference! ;)
No performance difference, only MPG. Interesting that the additional cost balances any MPG difference tho - not really much incentive to use it, unless it is that much better for engines, which I doubt.
Blue_SV650S
13-10-08, 08:31 PM
No performance difference, only MPG. Interesting that the additional cost balances any MPG difference tho - not really much incentive to use it, unless it is that much better for engines, which I doubt.
Just to be a stickler ... better MPG IS a measure of performance improvement ;) ...
Anyhoo, yes, seems it makes no real difference to your pocket, even if you have a vehicle that can adapt to use it proeperly ... I do think the detergents are supposed to be a bit better mind ... but to be honest, when is the last time you heard of modern fuel (normal UL) clogging/coking/gumming an engine!!?!? ;)
Biker_Billy
13-10-08, 08:47 PM
Lol, my apologies - I was trying to separate performance (in terms of engine responsiveness, acceleration etc) and fuel economy.
But of course, you are quite right.
Besides, I do the journey for work, So it doesn't make much difference to my pocket
muffles
13-10-08, 11:25 PM
Blue me ol' mucker...I thought some BMW bikes have knock sensors these days...
All else is as already mentioned...no knock sensor, no real improvement. It might help your engine by 'cleaning' but I don't know tbh...
yorkie_chris
13-10-08, 11:32 PM
is it a higher octane thats probably what does it though i dont know didnt really do much for the curvy sv havnt tried it in the pointy though a rr's a different beast altogether.
No it isn't. It's the density of the fuel in a non-knock sensor engine. Closed loop control means that it can get the proper lambda reading (proportional to mixture), by injecting less fuel.
On a turbo engine, or to a minor extent an NA engine, when equipped with a knock sensor the engine can use a little more boost, a little more ignition advance, or a slightly leaner mixture. Better power + more mpg. The power is only majorly increased on a turbo'd motor. NA motor you'd have to increase compression to get benefit.
As to the RR being a different beast, I'm not sure. Does it have a lambda sensor?
My 125YBR used to get 20+mpg more with optimax.
Ragging the crap out of it I could get it down to 70mpg on normal UL, could never get worse than 90mpg with the better stuff.
When I owned a RR-4 I phoned Honda who confirmed that super unleaded would make no difference. I don't know about the newer RR's though.
I don't bother with it with my SV, but I wouldn't fill up with supermarket fuel either (due to lack of detergents).
Is there a single bike on the market with a 'knock sensor'?!?!? :scratch:
Only the big BMW k12 has a knock sensor to my knowledge.
Plus I did alot of testing on this a few years ago that I wrote about on my blog, as the 'fuel companies' try to push this stuff to you in there advertising. In the end I came to the conclusion you get a minor increase in mpg that is cancelled by the cost. Does seem to help the engine a touch and ease carb icing in the curvys, though with the price difference you see now it might not be worth it.
neillfergie
14-10-08, 11:08 AM
really should make a minimal difference to power and economy. Not really enough to say you can really feel it.
As Yorkie says its only in a forced induction system where the higher octane fuels more predictable combistion really gives you noticable improvements.
Some engines are optomised to run on super though (like the M3) and wont run smoothly on standard pump fuel as the ignition as all set up wrong for it.
I doubt that any bikes on the market will be able to change settings sufficiently to make the most of the higgher octane fuel
Steve_God
14-10-08, 04:37 PM
Cleaner engine = smoother engine = better 'feeling' of performance.
captainsmelly
14-10-08, 05:56 PM
only ever put posh fuel in my curvy, after reading about carb icing etc on here. but i've found quite a good gain in an old car, you can advance the ignition a good bit further without risking pinking. power! (a little anyway)
yorkie_chris
14-10-08, 05:58 PM
You're wasting money there fella.
muffles
14-10-08, 08:03 PM
Kev hasn't said but he's found out on the CBR forums that the 07/08 RR has knock sensors ... ;)
Biker Biggles
14-10-08, 08:47 PM
I use ultimate in cold damp weather on the curvy to prevent carb icing.I found it helps on that front but never noticed any power increase,probably because there isnt one.
all i ever use in my k8 is optimax. filled up with regular unleaded once by mistake and i could defiantly feel the difference it was like i was running with my db killer in. to add to this my brother has a duke 750ss and it runs pretty crap on regular, doesn't start as well and tick over is a lot rougher.
but make your own mind up ..
yorkie_chris
14-10-08, 11:15 PM
Oh yeah, you do get to a point of ignition advance where there is no more power to be gained from it, even if you raise the knock limit.
It's very dependant on the engine in question.
Premium/regular isn't just octane, it's density and a load of other factors too.
Kev hasn't said but he's found out on the CBR forums that the 07/08 RR has knock sensors ... ;)
have I? D'oh, I'm not really into that other forum!!
Oh yeah so they do............I was trying to make sense of a few alfa niggles last night on their forum, so didn't look. It did feel different then. No more cheap stuff for me then!!!!
Can we please have an Alfa Romeo section of this forum........
muffles
15-10-08, 11:03 AM
have I? D'oh, I'm not really into that other forum!!
Yep you have ;)
Ceri JC
15-10-08, 11:55 AM
I get ever so slightly better MPG from high octane fuels, but not enough to make it economical compared to standard ones; The extra miles only partially balance the additional cost. In terms of performance I can't feel a difference. I think it's largely in people's heads/emporers new clothes syndrome when they say it makes an appreciable performance difference (on the road, on an SV).
As an aside, anyone else noticed how the price of high octane seems to of increased proportionally with fuel rises (rather than decreased as it should if the cost was fixed)? I was under the impression high octane was just better refined, rather than requiring more petrol fuel to produce?
I usually get about 9-10% more mpg with both car and bike using Shell V-Power / Optimax. :) Bike feels slightly quicker too, but that might be psychological because obviously I remember which fuel I put in. :rolleyes:
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