View Full Version : Had my bike dyno'd the other week.
Here are the results:
http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/8054/dyno1tu9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
I've got to say I'm pleased, at least that it wasn't down on power.
Nice one, I heard doing topspeed runs on a dyno whilst stationary can really bugger your tyres up though because of the lack of cooling? :confused:
Blue_SV650S
15-10-08, 08:27 AM
Is that RWHP or at the crank? It doesn't say on the chart ...
muffles
15-10-08, 11:12 AM
I can't see the chart (work) what are the figures?
muffles
15-10-08, 11:13 AM
Nice one, I heard doing topspeed runs on a dyno whilst stationary can really bugger your tyres up though because of the lack of cooling? :confused:
Possibly true, I know that carbon fibre cans can suffer from lack of cooling and melt! I would insist upon a fan being directed at my can if I put the bike on a dyno (sure to happen eventually).
Here are the results:
I've got to say I'm pleased, at least that it wasn't down on power.
What happened at Lydden then? ;) :smt026:smt026
I was warned about that by PheonixNW the uk yoshi supplier.
Even more so you have a baffle in.
muffles
15-10-08, 11:24 AM
I was warned about that by PheonixNW the uk yoshi supplier.
Even more so you have a baffle in.
About the cans? Yeah - I have a Yoshi (CF) and in the literature it says dyno runs invalidate the warranty :S
Mind you it's from the US, don't know if I really have a warranty anyway...
I would be very very careful and speak to the dyno operator to check they realise the risk...and what they recommend. After all the can is a 'race' can, surely it's going to be ragged/tuned at some point!
lukemillar
15-10-08, 11:30 AM
About the cans? Yeah - I have a Yoshi (CF) and in the literature it says dyno runs invalidate the warranty :S
Mind you it's from the US, don't know if I really have a warranty anyway...
I would be very very careful and speak to the dyno operator to check they realise the risk...and what they recommend. After all the can is a 'race' can, surely it's going to be ragged/tuned at some point!
TBH The idea of 'Race can' is a bit of a gimmick. The power gains to be had from a can alone are pretty tiny and not really worth the dyno costs unlike setting up a full system, which bang-for-buck would see bigger returns.
muffles
15-10-08, 12:35 PM
TBH The idea of 'Race can' is a bit of a gimmick. The power gains to be had from a can alone are pretty tiny and not really worth the dyno costs unlike setting up a full system, which bang-for-buck would see bigger returns.
Ok let me correct that - 'race system' - happy? ;)
It's the same can on the slip-on & full system so it's still the case that it's silly for them to think it's not going to be used hard...
In actual fact I am buying the rest of the system, should pick it up at christmas as it's in the States. :D
After posting the same pic on the 675 forum it has promptly been blown out of the water. It all makes sense though. The red line for example is nearly 1k revs below that on the graph. Do you rabble think that's a valid reason to ask for my money back?
Does it only rev to 12500ish
Are people basically saying the dyno company has printed off a graph he thinks you will be happy with without noticing that the Revs are all wrong.
I would defo go back unhappy.
Blue_SV650S
15-10-08, 01:36 PM
After posting the same pic on the 675 forum it has promptly been blown out of the water. It all makes sense though. The red line for example is nearly 1k revs below that on the graph. Do you rabble think that's a valid reason to ask for my money back?
You mean the red-line on the bike is at 13k? :scratch:
I'd certainly want to know if it was RWHP or not ...
The red line for example is nearly 1k revs below that on the graph. Do you rabble think that's a valid reason to ask for my money back?
Really? Everything I can find says that the 657 revs to about 14000??
Really? Everything I can find says that the 657 revs to about 14000??
Me to...
'In terms of power, Triumph is claiming a maximum of 123 crankshaft ponies at 12,500 rpm, with an extra 1500 rpm available before hitting the 14K rev limiter. But the real beauty of this Triple is its torque production. Clifford boldly states that it has more torque at 5000 rpm than some 600s make at 10,000. With a claimed 44 lb-ft at just 4000 rpm and 53 lb-ft at 11,750 rpm, this new Daytona is going to redefine what a middleweight's powerband can feel like'
Thats talking about the 2006 onwards bike
After posting the same pic on the 675 forum it has promptly been blown out of the water. It all makes sense though. The red line for example is nearly 1k revs below that on the graph. Do you rabble think that's a valid reason to ask for my money back?
Er, what's the problem? The redline is a recommended limit, it's not necessarily where the bike ceases to make usable power. Plenty of bikes will keep pulling into the red, making it all too easy to do so without noticing unless you're watching the tacho, my gixer included.
Nice one, I heard doing topspeed runs on a dyno whilst stationary can really bugger your tyres up though because of the lack of cooling? :confused:
Depends on the tyre really. The 014s on my gixer were generally OK after a run, whereas the the same run on the RGV (which had ridiculously soft tyres) left the rear tyre squared and glazed. All fair game.
Sid Squid
15-10-08, 02:43 PM
Ha! My Hoover makes more power than that.
muffles
15-10-08, 06:46 PM
Now I can see the figures...almost 116hp is quite a lot at the rear wheel, is it not :shock:
And it would be a little low at the crank... :-k
ThEGr33k
15-10-08, 06:55 PM
You mean the red-line on the bike is at 13k? :scratch:
I'd certainly want to know if it was RWHP or not ...
Aye... All dyno's can only give RWHP if they quote anything else they are guessing. The only way to check crank power it to take the engine out of the bike and find somewhere with the equipment to run off of the crank.
Does it only rev to 12500ish
Are people basically saying the dyno company has printed off a graph he thinks you will be happy with without noticing that the Revs are all wrong.
I would defo go back unhappy.
Indeed it does sound dodgy. :( I take it you wernt there when they ran it.
Now I can see the figures...almost 116hp is quite a lot at the rear wheel, is it not :shock:
And it would be a little low at the crank... :-k
Yes a bit high it would seem. These I think usually about 108-110 RWHP in reviews.
http://images.sportrider.com/bikes/146_0607_01_z+600cc_shootout+dynochart_hp_copy.jpg
yorkie_chris
15-10-08, 07:27 PM
Anything quoting crank HP is b0llocks. One car tuning firm I dealt with basically "corrected" .3 arbitrarily, to make chavs happy. Needless to say I never went back.
"Redline" and where the limiter kicks in can also be different. Also tachos aren't necassarily accurate either.
ThEGr33k
15-10-08, 07:30 PM
"Redline" and where the limiter kicks in can also be different. Also tachos aren't necassarily accurate either.
SV1000 is a prime example. Limiter is at 10K rpm yet the tacho goes to 11K... Most 600's are especially bad for it these days :(
yorkie_chris
15-10-08, 07:37 PM
Well aye but it'd look silly with the scale going to 10,200rpm (for 650...)
Some 600's the needle is pointing a few '000 too high at high revs.
northwind
15-10-08, 08:37 PM
Most dynos can do the "correction" for crank hp, if the operator decides that the owner of the bike would prefer a bigger number. Dishonest dyno numbers are pretty much a matter of fact sadly, if you want an optimistic number then either a) go to the dealer where you bought your bike, b) get it done somewhere that's just charged you money for tuning, or c) get it done somewhere that wants to charge you money for tuning. If you want an honest one, go to a race builder, or someone who couldn't give a rat's ass whether you're happy with the results or not (I use YPE, they come under the "rat's ass" category) But crank figures in general are for marketeers and idiots.
lukemillar
15-10-08, 08:38 PM
The rev-limiter kicks in at 13350rpm - not the 'redline'. Only way it could rev higher is with the race kit ECU and wiring loom, which if the previous owner had fitted, you wouldn't have any working lights!
The results are a little bit high - most people get between 105bhp and 109bhp with an end can from a stock 675 (RWHP)
mr.anderson
15-10-08, 09:34 PM
http://images.sportrider.com/bikes/146_0607_01_z+600cc_shootout+dynochart_hp_copy.jpg
Mine is a 2007 ZX-6R that went on the same Dyno and Mr Monkey's. Apparently get 122.8 at the rear wheel at 14,200 rpm.
All I have done is put a Yoshi RS-5 SS can on it.
Will scan that thingy tomorrow and put it up.
After posting the same pic on the 675 forum it has promptly been blown out of the water. It all makes sense though. The red line for example is nearly 1k revs below that on the graph. Do you rabble think that's a valid reason to ask for my money back?
The 675 race bike that my mate took to a 3rd and 2nd place at MRO Triple Challenge's Silverstone BSB meet makes about the same power at the same revs as yours. None of the ones we've heard of make peak power any higher than yours in standard engine tune, and ours makes it a full 1200 revs off the redline. All the difference is between a stock one and a Triple Challenge bike is a Micron end can and a race filter with some dyno work to get fuelling right to suit.
ThEGr33k
15-10-08, 10:17 PM
Mine is a 2007 ZX-6R that went on the same Dyno and Mr Monkey's. Apparently get 122.8 at the rear wheel at 14,200 rpm.
All I have done is put a Yoshi RS-5 SS can on it.
Will scan that thingy tomorrow and put it up.
No offence but I think someone is yanking your chain with that. :(
122? That's 750 power, not 600 power.
mr.anderson
16-10-08, 08:37 AM
No offence but I think someone is yanking your chain with that. :(
122? That's 750 power, not 600 power.
Indeed - I was expecting something more like 100. I did it for fun, not to prove anything, so I don't really care at the end of the day.
All I know is the bike is blindingly quick - enough for me anyway - no matter what the actual power output is.
Ultimately, dyno runs are a pointless (if satisfying) way to measure a bike's peak power output. What they are good for is checking fuelling and comparing output before and after changes, but back-to-back runs would have to be done on the same machine, ideally under similar atmospheric conditions, to have any real value.
That said, the ****ant 118 was measured at is enough to have me looking for a litrebike come the spring. It just doesn't feel scary anymore. Only problem is, I can't decide between a C4/C5 10R, K3/K4 gixer thou or maybe a 996/998. Decisions, decisions.
Oh, how lame. The sweary-filter didn't like the word p i s s a n t. It's not even profanity!
ThEGr33k
16-10-08, 12:24 PM
Indeed - I was expecting something more like 100. I did it for fun, not to prove anything, so I don't really care at the end of the day.
All I know is the bike is blindingly quick - enough for me anyway - no matter what the actual power output is.
Indeed, thats what counts feel. :D
Ultimately, dyno runs are a pointless (if satisfying) way to measure a bike's peak power output. What they are good for is checking fuelling and comparing output before and after changes, but back-to-back runs would have to be done on the same machine, ideally under similar atmospheric conditions, to have any real value.
That said, the ****ant 118 was measured at is enough to have me looking for a litrebike come the spring. It just doesn't feel scary anymore. Only problem is, I can't decide between a C4/C5 10R, K3/K4 gixer thou or maybe a 996/998. Decisions, decisions.
I Dyno'd mine to check fueling and my findings were interesting. Ive chipped it since so after I have the top end checked ill test it again to see how the fueling is now.
If you want italian go RSV ;)
yorkie_chris
16-10-08, 12:27 PM
Yup the gas analyser is useful, just a "power run" needs someone with a very keen eye to tell you much of use from the shape of the curve, and an accurate dyno with not too much smoothing going on.
They are only really good for setting up, and a before and after modification test to see what diifference they have made.
Blue_SV650S
18-10-08, 06:07 PM
Most dynos can do the "correction" for crank hp, if the operator decides that the owner of the bike would prefer a bigger number. Dishonest dyno numbers are pretty much a matter of fact sadly, if you want an optimistic number then either a) go to the dealer where you bought your bike, b) get it done somewhere that's just charged you money for tuning, or c) get it done somewhere that wants to charge you money for tuning. If you want an honest one, go to a race builder, or someone who couldn't give a rat's ass whether you're happy with the results or not (I use YPE, they come under the "rat's ass" category) But crank figures in general are for marketeers and idiots.
Indeed ... and the figures you will hear quoted by the manufactures are going to be crank HP ... hence why many dynos quite in (estimated) crank HP ...
You therefore need to ask your dyno if it is RWHP or crank figure you have been given ...
ThEGr33k
18-10-08, 07:27 PM
Indeed ... and the figures you will hear quoted by the manufactures are going to be crank HP ... hence why many dynos quite in (estimated) crank HP ...
You therefore need to ask your dyno if it is RWHP or crank figure you have been given ...
When I went I asked if it was RWHP and he looked at me funny and said yes. Obviously he knew what he was talking about because he said crank HP is rollox. :rolleyes:
Blue_SV650S
19-10-08, 09:23 AM
When I went I asked if it was RWHP and he looked at me funny and said yes. Obviously he knew what he was talking about because he said crank HP is rollox. :rolleyes:
I see, so you have been to one dyno once and you know it all and what this one dyno guy said is now dogma?!!? ;)
ThEGr33k
19-10-08, 10:37 AM
I see, so you have been to one dyno once and you know it all and what this one dyno guy said is now dogma?!!? ;)
No... I did research into the subject and it turned out he was right. If you want crank HP you need to take a direct drive off of the engines crank and if anything else says its measuring crank HP its a guess. ;)
122? That's 750 power, not 600 power.
Not really, most of the 2008 600s are putting out real world dyno figures of that level. Olie Linsdell's Black Horse Racing R6 supersport bike is putting out 123bhp at the rear wheel with no engine tuning, just pipe and filter changes.
Blue_SV650S
19-10-08, 11:13 AM
No... I did research into the subject and it turned out he was right. If you want crank HP you need to take a direct drive off of the engines crank and if anything else says its measuring crank HP its a guess. ;)
Bearing in mind dyno runs are generally done with the back wheel, that didn't need research, that is bleedin obvious!! :D You don't need to measure crank HP, you can take RWHP and add in a fudge factor to get (estimated) crank HP.
Point is, many rear-wheel dynos will give you a printout that is actually the calculated crank HP NOT RWHP as it makes the customer happy!!
Hence why you need to ask ... a tell tail sign is if your bike is stock and producing manufacturers HP or better, it is safe to assume it is 'dyno tuning' not your bike ;)
Sadly 'dyno tuning' (purposely poor dyno calibration or giving you estimated crank HP instead of RWHP) to make customers happy is rife ...
If it doesn't say RWHP on the chart ... you are prolly safer to assume it is showing crank HP until proven wrong ...
Blue_SV650S
19-10-08, 11:33 AM
No mistake on this one ... as you can see the 3 lines are identical, just 2 of them have 'fudge factors' ...
You can see if given only one line you wouldn't know which of the 3 it was ;)
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb319/blue_sv650s/R6dyno.jpg
ThEGr33k
19-10-08, 03:58 PM
Aye Blue I got to agree. Fair enough :)
Not really, most of the 2008 600s are putting out real world dyno figures of that level. Olie Linsdell's Black Horse Racing R6 supersport bike is putting out 123bhp at the rear wheel with no engine tuning, just pipe and filter changes.
There is someone on here with a Gixxer 750 and he got 117 on a dyno run with Zorst done... The problem is that its sooooo easy to fudge results to read higher and unless the bikes were tested back to back on same dyno same operator then its impossible to compair tbh... :(
You also have to remember that no two dynos will give the same results for the same bike and atmospheric conditons. A dyno run is only useful when doing back to back comparisons when tuning an engine. You start with the stock bike and then do another dyno run to see how the tuning has affected performance, then another, ad infinitum until the optimum performance has been reached.
Saying your bike has xbhp has no relevance in real terms. My CBR600 had 95bhp at the wheel, but on someone else's dyno it could be as low as 85 or as high as 100.
Well aye but it'd look silly with the scale going to 10,200rpm (for 650...)
Some 600's the needle is pointing a few '000 too high at high revs.
How do they get away with that then?
Speed in a gear doubles - rpm in that gear doubles.
A bit blatantly obvious, too obvious to attempt to dupe people no?
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