Trail braking.

[Blue_SV650S]

I think that is what it is called …

Basically approaching a corner do you:-

Set your speed in a straight line, come off the brakes and then turn in – this is the official Police/IAM way

Or

Brake into the turn, perhaps all the way to the apex/back of the car in front!! :lol:

[Grinch]

That would require me to think about it, and I just do it. Different braking for different situations.

[G]

Set your speed in a straight line, come off the brakes and then turn in – this is the official Police/IAM way


On the road bimbling, infact even then I'm normally making progress and trail the front brake

Brake into the turn, perhaps all the way to the apex/back of the car in front!! :lol:

When I'm 'on it' whether that be on the road or on the track.......infact its this most of the time.

[arenalife]

I usually like to get the speed right before entering but don't mind trailing a bit to adjust if neccessary.

[ArtyLady]

I do it the IAM - IPSGA way - its the only way I know...works for me :D

[Brettus]

I do when necessary, depending how much speed I'm intending to carry through (or more accurately how much of a rush I'm in) but I try and avoid it when possible.

[tomjones2]

Depends a lot on the conditions, in the rain probaly not. I'm not unhappy doing it though but I would normally favor the rear if you are actually in a corner. It normally only happens when something unexpected has appeared and I want to lose a little speed.

TBH i'm dont tend to brake that hard on the road anyway so I have normally sorted my speed before the corner.

[lukemillar]

On the track, I don't do it anywhere near as much as I would like to! (size of cojones)

[custard]

sort speed before the corner.

[Dangerous Dave]

Depends

On the road condition, weather etc....

[ThEGr33k]

I voted on the top one... Brake then turn in. This is the way I prefer it as the bike feel more settled and I feel happier to push on the way through and out of the corner. On the odd occation though I brake into a corner.

[Ceri JC]

Varies; I only do it if:

a) I misjudge the appropriate speed for my tyres/road surface/abilities and go in too fast.
b) I'm intentionally riding as quickly as I can, within reasonably safely, of course.

Blue is quite right that IAM view is that it's a no-no, presumably because they assume you're doing it for reason a) and reason b) has no place on the road. On most rides I don't usually do it. I don't have a problem with people who do it all the time, nor do I think it's particularly dangerous. Something I do take exception to is other riders who aren't comfortable braking round corners nearly rear ending me and then having a go at me as if it's somehow my fault they ride too closely in a group. "Always be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear" :)

[Blue_SV650S]

Depends

On the road condition, weather etc....


Surely that just changes the ferocity of the braking not the type/style? :scratch:

[Ceri JC]

Surely that just changes the ferocity of the braking not the type/style? :scratch:

I don't know; I'd never conciously choose to ride in a way that required it when riding on ice (decreased grip available for cornering as it is, so adding braking forces into the equation and it's even more likely to let go). I've also never ridden quick enough on ice that I've gone in fast enough to require to do it through rider error misjudging corner speed; eg I ride slow enough in the first place that it's never been a factor.

[Dangerous Dave]

Surely that just changes the ferocity of the braking not the type/style? :scratch:

No, you trail the brakes into and through to the apex of the corner where as the ferocity varies on the approach to a corner. The way you brake from the very beginning is the style/type.

Feel free to trail the brakes in every corner in the dry, lets see how you get on...

[Baph]

That would require me to think about it, and I just do it. Different braking for different situations.
+1.

It depends on traffic, mood, road conditions, weather conditions, visibility around the corner, speed (and speed limit) and probably a boat load of other things (like if I'm rushing to get to work or just bimbling).

[Blue_SV650S]

No, you trail the brakes into and through to the apex of the corner where as the ferocity varies on the approach to a corner. The way you brake from the very beginning is the style/type.

Feel free to trail the brakes in every corner in the dry, lets see how you get on...

:scratch:

I mean that if you tail brake in the dry, then you trail brake in the cold/wet surely??… you just don’t brake as hard/sharply as tehre isn't as much grip??? :scratch: … I can’t see as a trail braker, that just coz it is wet you’d stop doing it completely and revert back to NOT doing it at all.

That is where I was coming from …

I am not sure what you mean by your post ...

[Dangerous Dave]

:scratch:

I mean that if you tail brake in the dry, then you trail brake in the cold/wet surely??… you just don’t brake as hard/sharply as tehre isn't as much grip??? :scratch: … I can’t see as a trail braker, that just coz it is wet you’d stop doing it completely and revert back to NOT doing it at all.

That is where I was coming from …
Ahh... no I do it in all conditions (think I might have a death wish). The road condition more than anything would depend on whether I do or don't trail the brakes, also a road I do not know. It could be a hot sunny day, but there could also be a little patch of fine gravel or diesel.

Have I started making sense yet?

[Alpinestarhero]

Hmmm...I often do it the IAM way, mostly because thats what feels right. But I'm not afraid to trail the brakes into the corner, but only use one finger to gently squeeze. I'm all to aware of that pogo front end :lol: The speeds I ride at though, and the roads \i ride on, simply using the engine braking alows me to scrub off enough speed. If I'm in the corner too hot, then a bit o'countersteering solves the problem.

[Baph]

:scratch:

I mean that if you tail brake in the dry, then you trail brake in the cold/wet surely??… you just don’t brake as hard/sharply as tehre isn't as much grip??? :scratch: … I can’t see as a trail braker, that just coz it is wet you’d stop doing it completely and revert back to NOT doing it at all.

That is where I was coming from …


Look at it from the opposite view point. Sometimes I don't trail the brakes in the dry, because there's little need to (hell, most of the time I don't use the brakes really & rely on engine braking). I'm either on the gas, neutral, or braking pretty hard comparatively.

However, in the wet, more often than not, I will hang on to the back brake (again, conditions dependent though).

[northwind]

I just sort of do whatever feels right in each corner. I used to be a terrible comfort braker, now I'm not as bad as I was but that's sort of evolved into trail braking for a lot of corners, which I can't help but think isn't a very good habit on the road. I'm not especially fast while I'm doing it, mind, I just stay not especially fast for slightly longer than I might otherwise ;) Other times, I set it up at the start, there's no real pattern to it I don't think- I even do it differently on the same corners on my commute.

[etuna]

I panic, grab a handful of front, crawl round at walking pace then give it the guns on the way out........!:shock:

[yorkie_chris]

Hmmmm. Don't take this as advice as it's just howI've muddled my way through, and I'm not that quick either.

Normally I mostly use the gears to scrub off speed all the way in to when I'm gonna turn in, but my lines are more observation than classic "racing line". If it's clear to pick whatever line, and I'm feeling like it, then it's brakes all the way up to apex, but this is rare. What's really wierd I seem to find myself using more front brake in the wet as the rear slips more easily under harsh engine braking.

[Lozzo]

I do my absolute utmost to disregard anything the IAM teach, because those IAM riders I know tend to fall off more than the non-IAM riders I know.

I do trail-brake into corners, all depending on what corner it is. I've been experimenting with backing it in on the rear brake too, but think I'll save that for the track.

[chakraist]

I've been experimenting with sliding the rear as well, but I feel much, much more comfortable trailing the front into corners as I can get my body positioning sorted then I tend to brake about 1/3rd to 1/2 way round the corner, then neutral throttle then out. I definitely do it to a lesser extent in the wet but I am more wary of crap on the road so try not to do it so much. It's definitely a natural thing to brake deep into a corner though, I try and brake up to a metre or so before the apex depending on the corner.

However, if I'm feeling like good road positioning, I go for a typical slow-in fast-out line and I'm mainly braking in a straight line and turning it in quick. I prefer the typical out-in-out way as it's a great feeling trailing the brakes, makes me feel very accomplished.

[injury_ian]

I panic, grab a handful of front, crawl round at walking pace then give it the guns on the way out........!:shock:


Pmsl! snap

[Ceri JC]

I do my absolute utmost to disregard anything the IAM teach, because those IAM riders I know tend to fall off more than the non-IAM riders I know.


The accident statistics paint a different picture,

"Statistics indicate your chance of having an accident is cut by two-thirds if you pass the Advanced Test. " http://www.morayiam.org.uk/advancedmotoring/

When you factor in that the experienced non-IAM riders who do high miles regularly (perhaps the lads you were talking about) tend not to have accidents very often it suggests that to end up with the "33% as likely to have an accident" figure, there must be a lot of inexperienced non-IAM riders out there crashing more than 3 times as frequently as comparatively inexperienced IAM riders. The stat I've seen cropping up (although I can't find it at the moment) is that for less experienced riders, they are 25% less likely to have an accident after passing an IAM test.

Of course, you get idiots in any club and the people who pass their IAM test and think this somehow confers them automatic right of way and makes them invincible to boot are a nightmare, but thankfully they are in the minority.

[Blue_SV650S]

The accident statistics paint a different picture,

"Statistics indicate your chance of having an accident is cut by two-thirds if you pass the Advanced Test. " http://www.morayiam.org.uk/advancedmotoring/


Ever though that the sort of people that put themselves forward for advanced training might simply have a different mentality/attitude to riding to those that don’t - hence ‘safer’ anyway? And it is therefore maybe is not really directly down to the training itself?!? ;)

[Ceri JC]

Ever though that the sort of people that put themselves forward for advanced training might simply have a different mentality/attitude to riding to those that don’t - hence ‘safer’ anyway? And it is therefore maybe is not really directly down to the training itself?!? ;)

Yes, that's definately at least a part of it. I use the same argument re: hi vis. I believe it's less effective than the stats suggest (despite conceeding it's handy in an off) and that it makes only a slight real difference to cagers' ability to see you (you can still disappear behind pillars/blindspots, if they miss your headlights, they'll miss anything, they can still pull out without looking in your direction at all, etc.) and that it's more that people who are prepared to wear a ghastly* fluoro bib as opposed to the proper motorcycling colour (black) are likely to make other concessions to safety.

I think IAM has more of an effect on your riding than wearing high vis, although at least part of it is the mentality of the people that IAM appeals to. One of the (slightly odd) arguments against offering significantly lower insurance premiums for IAM riders to reflect this reduced risk is that if they did, the hooligans would start joining IAM and throw this balance out, but of course they could adjust this as and when it happened as they do with other things (like fully comp sometimes being cheaper than TPFT as people who insure fully comp are generally safer).

I also think that IAM/ROSPA is considerably useful less to someone with half a million miles under their belt than to a comparative newbie and that using the former as an argument against the latter doing it doesn't make sense. It's the newly passed weekend warriors, with less than 20,000 miles experience on SS600s in full leathers on sunny sunday afternoons who are most likely to kill themselves and for them IAM would be invaluable. I really believe IAM should go after those people in their marketing rather than people who have already been riding 10 years, ride a beemer or pan and use the bike mainly for commuting and long distance touring as even if they're not the fastest, they tend to lunch themselves less.

*only jesting, I've nothing against people wearing it if they want to.

[yorkie_chris]

it's more that people who are prepared to wear a ghastly* fluoro bib as opposed to the proper motorcycling colour (black) are likely to make other concessions to safety.

I reckon it can also go the other way, with people thinking that because they're dressed like a canary and have their lights on, that they can forgo defensive riding.

[Ceri JC]

I reckon it can also go the other way, with people thinking that because they're dressed like a canary and have their lights on, that they can forgo defensive riding.

Yes, that's part of the reason I don't think it's particularly effective; whilst it doubtless confers some safety benefit, this is to some extent offset by them "letting their guard down" due to assuming they must have been seen. It's the same sort of scenario as the one I described of the person who passed IAM and thinks they're now invunerable. Likewise, one v. experienced traffic cop I spoke to said that his officers tended to have more accidents within the first 3 months of passing their class one than they did during training as they felt they were now so highly trained. Of course, they were still much safer than your typical civvy rider, just less safe than they ought to have been, all things considered.

[Biker Biggles]

Any way back to trail braking------
Yes I do it A bit.
I dont have the skills to brake hard into a corner like like is required at a "technical" race track but I see it as a required skill to some extent on the road.When a bend tightens you need to lose a bit of extra speed while halfway round,and bikes handle better when the suspension is under load so carrying a bit of brake into a corner will load up the forks to help this.Just being familiar with what your bike does when brakes are applied in a bend can save you from falling off.

[metalmonkey]

I have dragged the back brake through corners before, normally in entry if I feel I'm too hot into the bend to help scrub speed off, it more something I play with. I have never used front when I am leaning over. However I do feel that I need carry more corner speed through the bends, however I just need to ride more and get mreo praticse.

The back is used lot when I filter anf for slow speed riding, works quite well in the city.

[vardypeeps]

I put no but to be honest I do sometimes just to keep a bit of heat in the sides of the front tyre