View Full Version : gsxr front fork springs, rider weight
hi all,
after getting the gsxr1000 k2 front end on and everything settled down i have started to play with the settings as the ride was a bit 'firm' to say the least.
the settings at the moment are:
compression - all the way down '1st click'
rebound - all the way down then 4 clicks up
spring compression - all the way up (softest)
with above settings the compression is still rising on bumps but the rebound is just about right but i still get a bit of 'pogoing'. the fork travel goes no where near the bottom of the fork tubes (lucky if its 2/3rds down under heavy breaking)
i'm 10-10.5 stone and i feel its still a bit firm.
so the question is do you think i need a softer set of springs?
i mainly ride on bumpy B roads.
i have looked at the racetech website and used there calculator and it says that the stock springs are about right for my weight.
as yet i have not changed the oil or checked the springs but it looks as though someone has been into the forks already (telltail spannering on caps) they also came with ohlins stickers on the bottom of the forks, so i have no idea if the springs have been changed.
Blue_SV650S
16-10-08, 07:34 PM
You have the damping all the way up!! :shock: ... no wonder it feels 'stiff' ;)
You have the damping all the way up!! :shock: ... no wonder it feels 'stiff' ;)
no i have the adjuster all the way up... so as its at its softest.:rolleyes:
Blue_SV650S
16-10-08, 07:44 PM
no i have the adjuster all the way up... so as its at its softest.:rolleyes:
Eh?? :scratch: ....
compression - all the way down '1st click'
rebound - all the way down then 4 clicks up
To me that is saying you have wound them all the way in, then 1&4 clicks out?!!? :confused:
That is essentially pretty much the highest/stiffest (slowest moving) setting you can have ...give or take a click or two :shock:
ok, i'm bad at explaining things.
what i should have said is
compression setting is all the way out to softest position
rebound is 4 clicks from softest position
spring is at its softest position...
does that help?
Blue_SV650S
16-10-08, 08:00 PM
ok, i'm bad at explaining things.
what i should have said is
compression setting is all the way out to softest position
rebound is 4 clicks from softest position
spring is at its softest position...
does that help?
Just to confirm ... are you thinking fully clockwise is softest, or fully anti-clockwise? :scratch:
compression all the way round anti-clockwise
rebound all the way round anti-clockwise then 4 clicks clockwise
spring pre-load all the way round anti-clockwise to number 5 groove
Blue_SV650S
16-10-08, 08:35 PM
compression all the way round anti-clockwise
rebound all the way round anti-clockwise then 4 clicks clockwise
spring pre-load all the way round anti-clockwise to number 5 groove
Ok, cool, you do indeed have the damping and preload almost fully off ...
In which case, YES its looking like they have been re-sprung and you either need to eat more pie, or re-spring ...
Getting some 2nd hand stock springs (should be cheap as chips mind!) :)
If you can establish their 'weight' you can prolly sell the ohlins for a tidy profit 8)
cool, cheers blue :notworthy:
i'm trying the pie solution at the moment, but thing is the more i eat the more it comes out the other end :smt104
i don't have the means to establish the weight of the springs so they will prob end up in a dark place somewhere in the back of a cupboard. unless some org'r wants them.
so now to find some springs...
Blue_SV650S
16-10-08, 08:58 PM
cool, cheers blue :notworthy:
i'm trying the pie solution at the moment, but thing is the more i eat the more it comes out the other end :smt104
i don't have the means to establish the weight of the springs so they will prob end up in a dark place somewhere in the back of a cupboard. unless some org'r wants them.
so now to find some springs...
2nd hand stock springs will go for pence ... it is not actually that hard to work out teh 'weight' of the springs ... you just need some dumbbells and a ruler ;)
it is not actually that hard to work out teh 'weight' of the springs ... you just need some dumbbells and a ruler ;)
hmmm sure i have some dumbbells somewhere.. and i defo have a ruler...
or could i use fish weighing scales?
you got me interested now.. please tell me more
to far on each end of adjusters is no good,you will get same results,suspension not working properly.your adjusters have very narrow range in which they work.
to far on each end of adjusters is no good,you will get same results,suspension not working properly.your adjusters have very narrow range in which they work.
so essentially a re-valve and springs are in order?
i thought that when the adjusters run out of range then a re-spring is all you needed to bring the adjusters back in line.
i'm not looking for a race setup its more of a sport/touring and more towards the touring aspect i'm looking for. my days of thrashing a bike from a to b are over. i mainly drive on B roads with very sharp, bumpy corners.
all help is appreciated as i love riding the SV the power/torque/weight and now hight is just right for me (5'2" tall) and i feel very confident on the bike now, its just the aggressive firmness of the front suspension that's bothering me.
i also have a gsxr1000 k7 rear shock on the back and it feels about right, a little firm but not as bad as the front.
adjuster is just needle.shape of that needle determines range of adjustment.
stock ones have small range.they can work fine if everything else is set up correct.
stock set up is compromise,and is set up for gsxr1k,not sv.to get what you want you need to change internals.you pick up spring for your need and go from there.you tune valving for that spring and how you will use bike.
for example on my gsxr1k I tune damping to keep front from bottoming and diving to fast under braking.big bikes with a lot of power transfer weight around much more than small bikes with less power.instead going 3 rates up on spring I tune damping different.
if you ride on street and don't use it to extreme you tune it different.if you looking to tune for sharp bumps that is mostly high speed damping which is internal valving.you can turn your clickers back and fore all day alone but you will not tune it out.
I don't recommend gsxr1k forks for sv for this reasons.they end up been to harsh for some people.600/750 forks suit sv better due to damping characteristics.last gsxr gen is also moving in direction of 1k.we see what this latest gen will bring with big pistons :)
thanks zadar. more information for me now...
will look into springs and re-valving...
Blue_SV650S
17-10-08, 02:22 PM
thanks zadar. more information for me now...
will look into springs and re-valving...
I think it depends on if the forks were re-vallved with the new springs or just new springs ...
I'd be happy to stick with the stock valving if I had stock springs ...
If the valving has been changed for the new springs, then we are into a new game :(
I think it depends on if the forks were re-vallved with the new springs or just new springs ...
never thought of that...
when i got the forks i got the yokes, callipers, front wheel etc, etc from the same bike, the front tyre was the original and only half worn, the brake pads were original and had about 3mm of thickness left on them and everything looked 'low mileage'. so i don't think the bike had done that many miles. for a k2 bike i would have thought the parts would have done more miles.
the only reasoning i can come up with is that the bike had been turned into a track bike and the owner replaced the forks for something else, mabee after re-springing them.
Blue_SV650S
17-10-08, 06:35 PM
never thought of that...
when i got the forks i got the yokes, callipers, front wheel etc, etc from the same bike, the front tyre was the original and only half worn, the brake pads were original and had about 3mm of thickness left on them and everything looked 'low mileage'. so i don't think the bike had done that many miles. for a k2 bike i would have thought the parts would have done more miles.
the only reasoning i can come up with is that the bike had been turned into a track bike and the owner replaced the forks for something else, maybe after re-springing them.
Any way of contacting the original owner to get the low down?? ... otherwise it is all just speculation?!!? ;)
I think it depends on if the forks were re-vallved with the new springs or just new springs ...
I'd be happy to stick with the stock valving if I had stock springs ...
it makes no difference what is in there if it does not work for you.
it works for some and it does not for others.
whole point of redoing it is to work for you.
Blue_SV650S
17-10-08, 06:55 PM
it makes no difference what is in there if it does not work for you.
it works for some and it does not for others.
whole point of redoing it is to work for you.
We are not talking about adjustments here ...
If stock springs are say 70kg and someone has put 90kg springs in it and got it re-valved to compensate/suit the 90 springs, then slapping 70 springs back in with the damping curve where it was will consequently mean the forks will be VERY over damped ... regardless of settings you put on/in ..
Any way of contacting the original owner to get the low down?? ... otherwise it is all just speculation?!!? ;)
yup ... asked allready, he has no idea, got them in a job lot of bike bits.
so it looks like a strip down is on order, i was planing on doing the oil anyway, so might aswell bung a new set of springs in there while i'm at it. then suck it and see how it feels.
any recommendation's of springs, hagon. racetech, so on and so on.
also what's the view on progressive springs in cartrage forks? probably being a bit of a numpty here but ... oh well
Blue_SV650S
17-10-08, 07:36 PM
yup ... asked allready, he has no idea, got them in a job lot of bike bits.
so it looks like a strip down is on order, i was planing on doing the oil anyway, so might aswell bung a new set of springs in there while i'm at it. then suck it and see how it feels.
any recommendation's of springs, hagon. racetech, so on and so on.
also what's the view on progressive springs in cartrage forks? probably being a bit of a numpty here but ... oh well
If they turn out a bit over damped, you can always try thinner oil too :)
As for springs ... thought you were gonna just get some stock ones?!?!? .. you feelin' flush/flash and gonna get some new ones?!!? 8)
If they turn out a bit over damped, you can always try thinner oil too :)
As for springs ... thought you were gonna just get some stock ones?!?!? .. you feelin' flush/flash and gonna get some new ones?!!? 8)
was thinking of thinner oil anyway .. make it more reactive (or so the theory goes)
and yes i am feeling a bit flash/flush.. so new ones me thinks .. might aswell there gonna be in there a while.....
ThEGr33k
17-10-08, 09:15 PM
http://www.racetech.com/evalving/SpringRateCalculation/dirtspring.asp?brand=Suzuki&yr=01-02&ml=GSX-R1000&formuse=form1&SpringType=Fork
Here that will help a little. itll tell you what rate you should have... or very close :D
I havnt read all the thread properly but I thought this may help.
We are not talking about adjustments here ...
If stock springs are say 70kg and someone has put 90kg springs in it and got it re-valved to compensate/suit the 90 springs, then slapping 70 springs back in with the damping curve where it was will consequently mean the forks will be VERY over damped ... regardless of settings you put on/in ..
if you want more damping than that would be good,right?
there is million ways you can valve forks,none is right or wrong.
that is beauty of cartridge forks,that you can set it up any way you like it.
i have written some notes to myself as to try and understand how forks/shokys work
would like your opinion on whether i'm right or wrong. so here goes.
Re wording of settings
H, Increase, Harden etc. etc. = Slow movement (more resistance)
S, Decrease, Soften etc. etc. = Fast movement (less resistance)
Dampening is the act of controlling the spring. Less resistance lets the spring rise and fall at a faster rate, more resistance lets the spring rise and fall at a slower rate.
Let’s take compression first, say your wheel hits a bump in the road, if the compression is to stiff (more resistance) the bike will rise on the bump as it will not allow the spring to compress fast enough. If the compression is too soft (less resistance) the bike will dive on the bump as it will let the spring compress to quickly.
Now the rebound part, after the wheel has gone over the crest of the bump the rebound takes over, if the rebound is too soft (less resistance) the spring will be released to fast and the excess energy in the spring will cause the bike to rise. If the rebound is to hard then the spring will be released to slowly (more resistance) causing the bike to dive.
now the fun part.
if the compression dampening settings are at there minimum and the forks or shoky are still rising over bumps, would this not equate to the springs being to stiff a rate for the rider and weight of bike? so keeping the compression settings as they are and droping the stiffness/weight or what ever you want to call it of the spring allow the shoky or forks to react to the bump by compressing the spring easier. therefore not rising over the bump but compressing the forks/shoky to take care of the bump.
your adjusters are just low speed damping,meaning when forks are moving up/down slow.high speed is when you hit bumps,which is valve orifice and shim stack.
if you have to stiff spring when you hit bump fork will compress less and energy will be transferred to frame.softer will absorb bump better.
on rebound you want wheel to follow back side of bump,forks will extend in to dip behind bump.this is also where spring preload plays part.if to much rebound your wheel will jump over bump.
fun part is that you can have soft spring preloaded to much and still feel harsh.just like stiff one will do.
Blue_SV650S
18-10-08, 06:30 PM
now the fun part.
if the compression dampening settings are at there minimum and the forks or shoky are still rising over bumps, would this not equate to the springs being to stiff a rate for the rider and weight of bike? so keeping the compression settings as they are and droping the stiffness/weight or what ever you want to call it of the spring allow the shoky or forks to react to the bump by compressing the spring easier. therefore not rising over the bump but compressing the forks/shoky to take care of the bump.
I like your thought process here, but as Z said, you can't alleviate the high speed damping ... or indeed ALL the low speed (they are adjusters - they only have a 'range' of adjustment - not total adjustment from OFF to SOLID).
Stop faffing about, just slot some new spring in!! :D
Stop faffing about, just slot some new spring in!! :D
will be ordering a new set on monday along with some 10 or 7.5wt oil. was thinking of racetech .85kg springs... or would blue_sv650 or zadar recommend anything different?
thanks for your input so far people...
much appreciated Bibio
what you weight in kg or lbs?not familiar with rocks :)
i weigh around 133 - 140lbs... 60.32 - 63.50kg
but mostly the heavier weight..
you can go with .80 also.softer is better on bumpy roads.
will phone around on monday to see who can supply.
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