View Full Version : Lids - arai condor or agv gp tech
obviously very differently priced helmets but these were the only two helmets that fitted me right, how safe is the condor and is the gp tech worth the extra?
I've got an Arai and I wont buy another.
Dont get me wrong, it is extremely comfortable and I'm sure its safe enough.
My only gripe is the visor mechanism, I'm sure in the right hands its fine, but in my hands its fragile. I've broken both pods changing the visor, and at £25 a pair they're not cheap.
I'm now afraid to change the visor which is obviously annoying.
out of the two i'd have the agv they seem to fit me better(important)and they are solidly built lid's my next'll be a shark though superb lid's.
I've got an Arai and I wont buy another.
Dont get me wrong, it is extremely comfortable and I'm sure its safe enough.
My only gripe is the visor mechanism, I'm sure in the right hands its fine, but in my hands its fragile. I've broken both pods changing the visor, and at £25 a pair they're not cheap.
I'm now afraid to change the visor which is obviously annoying.
There's nothing wrong with Arai side pods, you must be a bit hamfisted. I change mine at least three times a week and never had a problem in many years of using Arais.
northwind
18-10-08, 08:16 PM
I managed to break one, but I was being hamfisted ;) But I've changed visors, oh... At least 500 times with my 2 arais and only broke it once.
I wouldn't touch an AGV with a disinfected bargepole. I used to sell AGV and Arai at the Gericke shops I worked at, I returned quite a few faulty AGVs (24 Ti-Techs never even made it onto the shelf because all of them had defective paintwork and the chinbars were easily cracked) but I never had one warranty fault with an Arai, of which I used to sell three times more of.
I currently wear an Arai Condor on the road and an Arai Chaser on track, both have proven to be extremely comfortable and reasonably quiet. You just can't beat the feel of a proper fitting Arai on your head, AGV feel like a block of badly shaped concrete by comparison.
When it comes to helmets I always buy quality over flashy graphics and style, which is why I'd buy another Arai.
fizzwheel
18-10-08, 08:50 PM
Personally I would shy away from the AGV, my brothers feel to bits and Liz's one I never really thought the build quality was up to much...
As for the visor mechanism on the Arai, its just a knack. I can swap over very quickly now.
I will say one thing. The finish on my Arai hasnt stood up to the test of time. Its covered in stone chips and I am very disappointed with it on this front.
Shellywoozle
18-10-08, 08:52 PM
When it comes to helmets I always buy quality over flashy graphics and style, which is why I'd buy another Arai.
My Arai is flashy and very graphicy :) nice lids
thats a massive insight guys thanks, the agv has 5 stars in the sharp test and the arai has 2 stars, thats quite a difference! Is that not important?
xXBADGERXx
19-10-08, 01:30 AM
Sharp tests don`t mean Jack , Arai have stated that their helmets are strong where it matters , not in some poncy Sharpo test which people will drone on about for years in a beardy voice with slippered feet ... I have worn and crashed Arai helmets since the Rapide and the Giga (best Arai Ever) ...... trust an Arai with your life :D
Ill buy the condor tomorrow if it really is good but why have they done so bad in sharp?
xXBADGERXx
19-10-08, 01:52 AM
The sharp test concentrates on areas designated as susceptable to piercing impacts , Arai have said "Borrox to that , we test where the helmet is LIKELY to get impacted upon and it survives"
Worn Arai for 2 decades , and I`m still here ....................... allegedly (which is better than not here:D)
fizzwheel
19-10-08, 06:13 AM
The sharp test concentrates on areas designated as susceptable to piercing impacts
Also from what I have read the sharp test is not consistent. If theres a vent or something on the lid thats in the way when they test that part of the helmet then its OK to move the test point to a different part of the lid. Thats not likely to happen in a road crash is it.
Also its likely that a manufacturer may beef up the areas of the helmet that the sharp tests use to get a better score.
Personally I think its a government derived waste of time, it could have been good but they havent thought it through properly.
Personally I wont stick my head in anything but an Arai or a Shoei. You've got the right criteria get one that fits properly first and then go from there. I'd be inclined to listen to Lozzo and Paws as both have sold helmets so know a bit more about it than the average user on this forum.
nik_nunez
19-10-08, 07:23 AM
i got a condor when i got my bike, i got it purley for the fit as it is very comfy - my only gripe is the wind noise, but then i have not worn another helmet to compare, and i just use ear plugs or headphones
lukemillar
19-10-08, 07:30 AM
Eh? What a load of cr@p advice! I'd buy whichever fits you best!
Every one has different experiences. Lozzo has pretty much slated all of my kit manufacturers in various threads on here - now AGV is getting a bashing! ;) However, I have slid down the road twice recently in fast lowsides, using the same 'rubbish' kit and came away with one small bruise of the side of my knee. All of the kit is still useable. Personally, I'll take my experience over someone elses.
Essex of Essex
19-10-08, 07:55 AM
My bike club had a presentation by the Arai importers the other day, his explanation for the low Sharp test scores was that Arai have not adjusted the construction to pass the tests, as some other manufacturers have; even to the point of just reinforcing the area that will be hit. The sites for the blows are very specific wheras Arai build what research shows to them is needed.
Even for a Shoei wearer it was very interesting and enlightening, the chap was full of praise for Shark and Shoei as well as his Arais.
My bike club had a presentation by the Arai importers the other day, his explanation for the low Sharp test scores was that Arai have not adjusted the construction to pass the tests, as some other manufacturers have; even to the point of just reinforcing the area that will be hit. The sites for the blows are very specific wheras Arai build what research shows to them is needed.
Even for a Shoei wearer it was very interesting and enlightening, the chap was full of praise for Shark and Shoei as well as his Arais.
shark for me next then:D
shark for me next then:D
Shark shells and interiors are quite well made, so are the visor mechs, but the vents have a habit of breaking and falling off.
my dads got a shark, said it was £150 and it had 4 stars in the (useless) sharp test, might be worth trying one of them on, both the arai and agv fit well but the agv was slightly more comfy as it had different cushions and was lighter
Eh? What a load of cr@p advice! I'd buy whichever fits you best!
Cr@p advice in your opinion, maybe, but you only use the kit you have. You're not party to a lot of the information people involved with making and selling bike kit have - people like Paws and myself.
Every one has different experiences. Lozzo has pretty much slated all of my kit manufacturers in various threads on here - now AGV is getting a bashing!
That could have a lot to do with the fact that my business was motorcycle clothing and helmets for many years. I've been involved in the design, manufacture, marketing, wholesaling and retail sale of bike kit over the years, and that always involves testing competitor's products to see where their weaknesses lie.
I don't always suport the big names/big prices manufacturers, in fact virtually all the high value leathers I've had experience of have been absolutely awful in their costruction, yet look very nicely styled. Unfortunately the majority of riders choose style over quality, mainly because they believe the marketing hype and don't know what to look for.
Some of the best value leathers on the market at the moment are made by one of the budget manufacturers - Nitro. Being around the club racing scene for a few years I've seen some pretty fast crashes happen and the Nitro leathers that I've seen crashed have always looked scuffed to hell, but only one pair has suffered a hole. I watched a set of £1000 Dainese unravel like toilet paper off the roll at Brands one day, they looked like someone had been let loose on them with a huge shredder.
nitro make leathers cool ive got one of their lids and it definitely perform's way above what the price mark said about it light comfortable sturdy havnt crashed in it yet though.
xXBADGERXx
19-10-08, 11:37 AM
I tried a Shark helmet once .... man I was deaf for hours afterwards , Arai lids have become a little bit noisier recently due to removeable linings . Ear plugs are good advice to anyone doing anything more than a fast commute to work .
Bit the bullet and got myself an Arai Condor today after trying on nearly every helmet in hein gericke nothing fit as well as the condor so ended up getting it. After trying on the GP tech again it didn't fit as well but the lining was softer.
Anyone know any good products for stopping the visor misting up!?
fizzwheel
19-10-08, 01:36 PM
Anyone know any good products for stopping the visor misting up!?
Pinlock, you should have got the pinlock lugs on the visor already, failing that a fog city insert. Also a Foggy respro mask helps as well. But IMHO the pinlock visor insert is the one to go for.
xXBADGERXx
19-10-08, 01:38 PM
+1 For Pinlock
Pinlock, you should have got the pinlock lugs on the visor already, failing that a fog city insert. Also a Foggy respro mask helps as well. But IMHO the pinlock visor insert is the one to go for.
+1
There's a pinlock insert in all my Arai visors.
Could you direct me to a good un online? I'm a bit of a noob so don't know what to search for or where to look
Dangerous Dave
19-10-08, 01:41 PM
+ 1 for Pinlock (http://www.racevisors.co.uk/index.php?error=Page%20Not%20Found!), the best on the market in my opinion.
kwak zzr
19-10-08, 02:14 PM
Pinlock, you should have got the pinlock lugs on the visor already, failing that a fog city insert. Also a Foggy respro mask helps as well. But IMHO the pinlock visor insert is the one to go for.
when i got my condor there was one in the box with it:) there great! as for lids i love my arai and i would buy another, they are noisy but like said ear plugs sorts that.
when i got my condor there was one in the box with it:) there great! as for lids i love my arai and i would buy another, they are noisy but like said ear plugs sorts that.
I can't imagine why anyone would want to ride with any helmet on without earplugs.
kwak zzr
19-10-08, 02:29 PM
i couldnt get used to them :( felt like i lost one of my sences and it felt like i was off balance all the time :( i used to them now tho :)
Shellywoozle
19-10-08, 02:32 PM
I can't imagine why anyone would want to ride with any helmet on without earplugs.
I lazy Lozzo, then again you probably know that LOL. I have some somewhere but it would mean me having to hunt to find them so I go PLUGLESS lol :)
What I do I don't call it riding anayway so it don't count.
kwak zzr
19-10-08, 04:30 PM
you ride well shell don't diss yourself.
I am a bit ham fisted, but I wouldn't say anymore than average.
I tried ear plugs and felt too 'removed' from everything around me. Maybe I need to get used to them.
kwak zzr
19-10-08, 04:45 PM
same as me, but now i wouldnt do motorway miles without them.
phil24_7
19-10-08, 05:25 PM
I was like kwak, felt uneasy the first couple of times I went out with plugs in but I soon got used to them. I will not do motorway miles without these or some earphones in and I also wear them when I'm out for a "spirited" ride through god's country!
northwind
19-10-08, 05:36 PM
For anti-misting, I've tried pinlock and fog city and prefer fog city... Completely fit and forget. But they're both very good
lukemillar
19-10-08, 10:55 PM
Cr@p advice in your opinion, maybe, but you only use the kit you have. You're not party to a lot of the information people involved with making and selling bike kit have - people like Paws and myself.
That could have a lot to do with the fact that my business was motorcycle clothing and helmets for many years. I've been involved in the design, manufacture, marketing, wholesaling and retail sale of bike kit over the years, and that always involves testing competitor's products to see where their weaknesses lie.
I don't always suport the big names/big prices manufacturers, in fact virtually all the high value leathers I've had experience of have been absolutely awful in their costruction, yet look very nicely styled. Unfortunately the majority of riders choose style over quality, mainly because they believe the marketing hype and don't know what to look for.
Some of the best value leathers on the market at the moment are made by one of the budget manufacturers - Nitro. Being around the club racing scene for a few years I've seen some pretty fast crashes happen and the Nitro leathers that I've seen crashed have always looked scuffed to hell, but only one pair has suffered a hole. I watched a set of £1000 Dainese unravel like toilet paper off the roll at Brands one day, they looked like someone had been let loose on them with a huge shredder.
You opinions are completely polar though. Kit is either a heap of sh!t or the best thing since sliced bread! There is no middle ground. I'm not disputing what you say or what you have seen, but if Dainese suits were unrolling left right and centre like toilet paper, then the alarm bells would have rung ages ago, horror stories posted on internet forums, in the bike mags etc. The suit in question may have suffered a number of crashes and had never been repaired or been 2nd hand and the previous owner didn't disclose the history - you just don't know. One analogy I can think of is just because one Boeing 747 drops out of the sky, doesn't mean that all Boeing aircraft are carp and will probably crash too.
At the end of the day we can argue till we are blue in face - for every person who says a piece of kit is carp; you will find someone else who thinks it is the dogs banana's. For me, I'll take whatever bit of kit is comfortable and fits me best, be it a 1000 pound Dainese suit or a 400 pound Nitro suit. Anyway, best protection is prevention and not crash in the first place! ;)
northwind
19-10-08, 11:02 PM
if Dainese suits were unrolling left right and centre like toilet paper, then the alarm bells would have rung ages ago, horror stories posted on internet forums, in the bike mags
They did ;) Dainese have been shown up time and again for their horrible burst resistance, it's been shown in magazine tests too. They're very pretty but traditionally they've really not performed well- too much effort put into making them look and feel fantastic (which they do) and not enough into making them work.
You also have to bear in mind how people's minds work. You see quite often in crash stories "Product X did incredibly well- look, it snapped right in half, just imagine what would have happened if it hadn't been there!" instead of "Product X is ****, it snapped in half on impact, might as well not have been there". When gear that people trust comes to bits they tend to assume that it's performed well, but that the crash was so severe that it couldn't be expected to stay in one piece.
There was a great test in one of the US magazines that I saw posted on SV Rider- they tested the cheapest and most expensive Dainese suits (among others) and the cheapest one performed better than the expensve one in every way other than comfort- they reckoned that it was made with cheaper (tougher) leather and stitched out of fewer panels with bigger, courser, uglier (stronger) stitches. The expensive suit was bursting seams right along the stitch lines.
You opinions are completely polar though. Kit is either a heap of sh!t or the best thing since sliced bread! There is no middle ground. I'm not disputing what you say or what you have seen, but if Dainese suits were unrolling left right and centre like toilet paper, then the alarm bells would have rung ages ago, horror stories posted on internet forums, in the bike mags etc. The suit in question may have suffered a number of crashes and had never been repaired or been 2nd hand and the previous owner didn't disclose the history - you just don't know. One analogy I can think of is just because one Boeing 747 drops out of the sky, doesn't mean that all Boeing aircraft are carp and will probably crash too.
At the end of the day we can argue till we are blue in face - for every person who says a piece of kit is carp; you will find someone else who thinks it is the dogs banana's. For me, I'll take whatever bit of kit is comfortable and fits me best, be it a 1000 pound Dainese suit or a 400 pound Nitro suit. Anyway, best protection is prevention and not crash in the first place! ;)
You're quite incorrect. Just today I've been recommending 300 quid Nitro suits, Wolf and Arlen Ness as well as earlier in the week advising on cheaper helmets. There is middle ground, but you're just p1ssed cos you bought a fair bit of the kit I know to be sub-whatever I'd consider good.
lukemillar
19-10-08, 11:32 PM
You're quite incorrect. Just today I've been recommending 300 quid Nitro suits, Wolf and Arlen Ness as well as earlier in the week advising on cheaper helmets. There is middle ground, but you're just p1ssed cos you bought a fair bit of the kit I know to be sub-whatever I'd consider good.
Eh? I'm not p!ssed. I don't own any Dainese kit and I am quite happy with the kit I do own and how it has held up. You could do with easing up on the "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" attitude, because if we are to believe everything you say, then half this forum is a handful of front-brake away from major skin grafts from wearing sub-standard gear, that will disintegrate on impact of it ever gets within sniffing distance of tarmac.
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