View Full Version : Crash summary - advice needed
Hi all,
Unfortunately I've been involved in a crash, I'm more or less ok (more in Aberdeen banter), bike isn't too bad either.
What happened? Came off at a corner at 50-60mph landed in a hedge or something.
Damage is relatively minor, all leavers, pegs unharmed (more luck than brains), just came back from the recovery company saw the bike:
- indicator lens (front rhs),
- screen,
- I'd say the front lights stick out a bit more than they should,
- brake fluid reservoir broken off, but still holding fluid,
The worst one I think is the oil leak, can't say where it's from, but I'm surprised because the lowers are still on and ok (a few scratches maybe). Any idea what's going on?
I've organised some transport for the bike, so I can put it in the lock up and replace the screen, try to deal with the oil leak.
or maybe you'd advise me to leave it and let the insurance deal with everything?
What do you think?
Cheers
Flamin_Squirrel
20-10-08, 10:11 AM
You may find that the oil leak is something as simple as a breather pipe that's come off, rather than anything broken. Especially if there doesn't seem to be any sign of damage.
That's what I'd be looking for first anyway, you might be able to fix the leak for free.
yorkie_chris
20-10-08, 10:39 AM
Bugger. It's that time of year when org is renamed the upside down riding club again isn't it.
First thing IMO is to get the plastic off and inspect headlight and front subframe for damage. The oil leak will probably prove to be something and nothing but you need a look at it.
Which side hit the deck, and are the casings marked at all?
Will do that.
Spoke to the insurance company, they are ok with me fixing the bike on my own and if that doesn't work, claiming on the repair.
Anyway, thanks for replying, keep 'em coming, I'll be off to pick the bike up in a few minutes.
yorkie_chris
20-10-08, 10:47 AM
Yeah far better not to claim. In most cases I think people could buy another bike for less than the screwing over they'll get for excess and the next 5 years premiums
Ok, bike's "home".
Turns out there are 2 new issues:
1) cracked mudguard
2) Bike not starting - battery is ok, when I press the starter button, there's a "clunk" sounds like from under the seat and the thing resets (odo meter + the fuel light routine, just like when turning the key.)
Some pics before the camera died.
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/2373/picture001xa8.jpg
http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/6562/picture002ij9.jpg
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/5958/picture003cd2.jpg
Small scratches on the bottom of the fairing
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/6408/picture004wk9.jpg
Bike's been on it's side for a few minutes until Baz and Adg53dd dragged it out of the ditch.
http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/704/picture006sz0.jpg
Ignore, the Stebel.
The cr@p in the front sprocket region is from the scottoil, me thinks.
http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/1436/picture007tm3.jpg
The oil from the engine has been cleaned now, the idea is to put oil in, check if it's leaking (where from), but what about the starting issue?
yorkie_chris
20-10-08, 01:30 PM
Remove plugs, turn back wheel and see if the engine actually turns.
Stoneyginger
20-10-08, 02:16 PM
give the starter motor a hit with a hammer, if not try putting a battery with positive and negative to the starter motor and see if it fires up perhaps removing it from the bike to do so incase it is engine damage. easiest way to start i would say
Stoneyginger
20-10-08, 02:17 PM
generally the starter motor does the restart thing if it is having trouble getting it to go as it draws too much power. My thinking is starter motor :)
jimmy-james
20-10-08, 02:20 PM
If the bike has been on its side there will be oil in the bores which may cause the starting problem but i'm not entirely sure on the best way to fix it.
yorkie_chris
20-10-08, 02:23 PM
Spinning motor with the plugs out via the back wheel will clear that. Doing it the same, but with the starter motor will do that, but all over the roof.
IMO check for mechanical damage first, then worry about electrics.
so...
got both plugs out, gears initially didn't want to pop in.
Whilst under the tank, I've taken the air filter out - there's oil in the airbox :/
I've pressed the starter button accidentally, didn't go as bad as YC said :)
Once the gear started working I went to 4th (or higher) I think. Back wheel moved, but with much resistance. The front cylinder spat oil out.
All of that was accompanied by what can be described as a mechanic scraping sound :?:smt013
yorkie_chris
20-10-08, 03:25 PM
OK all understandable so far, the scraping not so good though, can you tell where it's coming from? What happens when cranking it on starter?
glad your up and about mate if i can help you know how to get in touch. keep us posted on progress
The starter was on only a second or so. The front cylinder spat a bit of oil out, wasn't sure if that's safe and didn't repeat it.
The "scrapig", how to describe it... hard to tell... I'll go to the lock up with a friend so he can operate the wheel, I'll try to locate where it's coming from.
so...
please note that I've hit my head a week ago and I might be imagining things...
This time my mate turned the back wheel, you could hear the cylinders pumping. Still some resistance (no idea how a 650 should turn), but no unwanted noises whatsoever.
So what you'd reckon the next step should be? I'm thinking: clean airbox, pour new oil, fit spark plugs, check for leaks, and... try to start it?
What do you think?
Dave20046
20-10-08, 05:47 PM
yeah I've heard starter motors are a bad'n on sv's
scottjames
20-10-08, 06:32 PM
maybe tht first scrap was a dry bit where the bike has been on its side????
glad your ok, looks like you were very lucky not to do more damage. hope your bk on soon.
yorkie_chris
20-10-08, 10:45 PM
so...
please note that I've hit my head a week ago and I might be imagining things...
This time my mate turned the back wheel, you could hear the cylinders pumping. Still some resistance (no idea how a 650 should turn), but no unwanted noises whatsoever.
So what you'd reckon the next step should be? I'm thinking: clean airbox, pour new oil, fit spark plugs, check for leaks, and... try to start it?
What do you think?
That's your boy. Check rad is full of coolant too.
Airbox naturally gets oil mist, just tip out any that's properly sloshing about
not good :(
Done the above, tried to start it...
The starter is trying to spin but it "coughs" once, sometimes twice then resets. I've found a charger in the lock up, says battery is full, and I never had any problems with it (tried with the charger on, same thing).
I've taken the starter off, spins ok.
Help :confused:
yorkie_chris
21-10-08, 06:28 PM
Did it stink of fuel? Has it filled crankcase full of petrol?
Maybe I've described it wrong.
The coughing sound isn't the engine trying to fire up.
It's more like the starter managing to turn the engine a bit, but there isn't any sign of it starting.
Has it filled crankcase full of petrol?
ok, how and where can I check that?
yorkie_chris
21-10-08, 06:39 PM
Sniff the filler hole, if it properly reeks of fuel then that's not good. Also check the oil level, if it's an inch higher than it was the other day then you may have this problem.
Also try jump start it off another battery, or charge yours up, as a slightly low battery could easily cause this.
I've tried starting it with the charger attached, didn't help.
It lost quite a bit of oil at the recovery station (well below the "low" mark, even when leaned) so I've topped it up.
I'll try leaving it charging for a while in the morning, check if the filler hole smell of petrol.
Will post tomorrow.
Thanks
yorkie_chris
21-10-08, 09:10 PM
OK if it was well below low mark then it's unlikely to be hydraulic locked from fuel.
Start should spin it ok with a charge in battery.
On my way the the lock up, battery has been charging for 3h, if it doesn't start, I'm pushing it of a cliff :/
How stupid would be the idea to try to push start it? (lock up is on a steep'ish bit of road so little effort reqired).
On my way the the lock up, battery has been charging for 3h, if it doesn't start, I'm pushing it of a cliff :/
How stupid would be the idea to try to push start it? (lock up is on a steep'ish bit of road so little effort reqired).
Que the drum roll.
yorkie_chris
22-10-08, 02:31 PM
Lol watch it not start and you have to push it back up... Sorry :-P
Worth a go, if motor turns over alright via the back wheel then it's obviously not siezed up.
Ok, it went...
Good news:
- It's alive!
I expected to have to keep it on the starter for a while, but up fired up pretty quickly. Yes, yesterday it looked like a flat battery, but it never had any problems (even after starting after sitting in the lock up for 2 weeks last winter) and didn't understand it.
Bad news, unfortunately:
- started on 1 cylinder (rear), front didn't kick in, I've taken the spark plug out, it was covered in oil. Cleaned, refitted - same thing.
- Huge puff's of smoke from the exhaust at the first start. Didn't smoke so much after I've cleaned the 1st plug.
- this one's scary - there's oil in the exhaust :confused:.
http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/9840/22102008mt7.jpg
Picture is rubbish (mobile), there's a bit of it "on" the baffle, also when I've started working on the 1st spark plug, the oil started flowing out of the can and slowly flowing on the bottom of the link pipe. :confused:
Can't really tell (yet) if it's the old oil, or if it's using the topped up one.
:hackedoff:
yorkie_chris
22-10-08, 02:41 PM
What's happened is the bike being on its side has leaked oil into the airbox, from there into the inlets and cylinders.
It's a bit of a git. The way I've done it in the past is to crank it with the plug out (coil connections removed), then to just keep trying to fire it up, you can warm plugs up to vaporise oil fouling or just wipe them off. After a while the fuel vapor will thin the oil enough to spit it out of the exhaust. Clouds of smoke are fairly normal.
So you're saying, it's more or less normal?
Ok, I'll be needing step by step instructions here:
- I should take the 1st plug out, fire it up (don't know why but the idea of starting the bike with 1 plug missing sounds scary to me).
- clean 1st plug/refit - fire up?
One other thing, how can I check if the plug actually sparks? Put it against the frame, and press the starter, right?
yorkie_chris
22-10-08, 03:03 PM
Yeah that's pretty much how you check for spark. You don't want to start it with one plug out, just crank it, it should spit the excess oil out at least enough for it to fire up, as soon as it fires on that pot it'll burn the oil off.
In short,
1)check if plug sparks
2)take cap of 2nd plug and "start" it (with the 1st plug out).
3)fit 1st plug and both caps and start.
yorkie_chris
22-10-08, 03:12 PM
No don't crank a motor without plug caps on, either earth the plugs somewhere away from the plughole or disconnect the coils.
You don't want high voltage jolt from the coils with nowhere to go as it can do damage on some systems.
Sorry for so many noob questions, but I my spannering skills are (were) limited to changing oil and plugs.
Got a Hayens, so I think I know what you mean by "disconnecting the coils" (the two thinner wires going into the coil - hayens picture).
ok, off to the lock up in 10 min, suddenly a internet connection in your garage doesn't sound silly :)
Dave20046
22-10-08, 06:15 PM
In my crash (double back flip and a 180 to finish) all the oil in the engine completely leaked, I can't where it leaked from it seems to be out of the mid section of the bike (airbox was very oily). Is it possibly for a lot of oil to leak this way or is my engine bust?
Soz to hijack but i'm worried!
yorkie_chris
22-10-08, 06:23 PM
Yes you can lose almost all the oil out of the engine breather into the airbox if the bike is laid on its LHS. However do check for cracks to the sidecasings.
Dave20046
22-10-08, 06:45 PM
Yes you can lose almost all the oil out of the engine breather into the airbox if the bike is laid on its LHS. However do check for cracks to the sidecasings.
Cheers chris!
Yes it did land on the lhs (eventually:smt012), that's took a load of my mind - hope it's right.
thanks a lot chris
P.s I've noticed you're following me :kiss:
Current status.
Bike fires up every time, still on 1 cylinder.
Last start was with a new plug, didn't help, but it looks like it stopped smoking :)
Got some ideas what to do next (thanks Chris!), will try that in a day or two.
Have to give my ribs their well deserved rest.
hmm...
how crazy/stupid would it be to put a wee bit of petrol into the cylinder?
yorkie_chris
22-10-08, 08:34 PM
Find out whether the cylinder is getting it's own fuel first.
Fuel on spark plug, or is there some other way?
yorkie_chris
22-10-08, 08:37 PM
Just sniffing the plug really. you could try add a small amount directly into the front carb throat.
I've tried canking it, then refit plug, start it and over and over again.
Every time the same story. :(
What I started thinking about... The oil got to the airbox through the carbs, right? They haven't been cleaned, so can they be responsible for the cylinder not working?
yorkie_chris
27-10-08, 12:17 PM
Perhaps plugged air jets. Try put a little fuel straight into the carb mouth ... if this lets it fire then you know it's a fuelling problem.
That can be done "through" the airbox?
yorkie_chris
27-10-08, 12:26 PM
Yes straight down the carb throat. Just a couple of drops will do, or do it with the airbox entirely removed
:/ Tried that, resulted in a bang from the exhaust, and that back to normal.
yorkie_chris
27-10-08, 12:47 PM
When you say back to normal do you mean back to running on 1 cylinder only?
I'd say that means the front pot is getting no fuel. Have you got compressed air available?
Try a burst of carb cleaner down into the air jets with it running, might clear a drop of oil that's blocking them.
heh, yeah, 1 cylinder is "normal" now :(
There's some sort of compressor at the lock up, and I've got an air-duster can.
Try a burst of carb cleaner down into the air jets with it running, might clear a drop of oil that's blocking them.
Ok, where's that? :scratch:
Is it doable with the airbox on?
yorkie_chris
27-10-08, 12:56 PM
No take airbox off. It's not hard and allows easy access
yorkie_chris
27-10-08, 12:58 PM
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h289/mojojojo928/DSC00065.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h289/mojojojo928/DSC00051.jpg
HTH
EDIT
HA!
Yes, thanks :)
Off to get some carb cleaner.
yorkie_chris
27-10-08, 01:08 PM
p.s thanks to ziptech 800 on svrider for the pics.
Excellent writeup here:
http://forum.svrider.com/showthread.php?t=85580
ehh....
Got the cleaner, took airbox off, started the thing...
As I sprayed the cleaner at the 1st carb (jets), revs were going up and the exhaust poped (and gave out a lot of smoke).
Tried spraying at the 2nd carb and it "choked" every time.
What wonders me is why is the front downpipe getting warm? :confused:
Think I'll book it to a garage somewhere, this looks like it's over my skills :(
yorkie_chris
27-10-08, 04:35 PM
If it's getting warm it must be firing, how are you sure rear is firing?
Nicky S
27-10-08, 05:24 PM
Bugger. It's that time of year when org is renamed the upside down riding club again isn't it.
:? i dnt get it ?
yorkie_chris
27-10-08, 05:25 PM
Everyone keeps falling off...
Nicky S
27-10-08, 05:25 PM
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h289/mojojojo928/DSC00065.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h289/mojojojo928/DSC00051.jpg
HTH
they from ur bike if so its very clean a bit lik DD bike's
Nicky S
27-10-08, 05:26 PM
Everyone keeps falling off...
oh ok lol im one of them :(
yorkie_chris
27-10-08, 05:26 PM
No they're from a customers of ziptechs from the svrider forum.
....yeah me too
If it's getting warm it must be firing, how are you sure rear is firing?
Starts and sounds the same whether the front plug is connected or not. Doesn't even try to start when on 1st plug only (2nd coil disconnected).
yorkie_chris
27-10-08, 05:40 PM
OK... and spraying carb cleaner into front carb caused it to rev up ... but into the rear one caused it to choke and die?
Take front carb off, check float bowl, blow out passageways.
OK... and spraying carb cleaner into front carb caused it to rev up ... but into the rear one caused it to choke and die?
Yup, die or struggle for revs.
Take front carb off, check float bowl, blow out passageways.Why do I keep leaving the Hayens in the lock up... Well, off to see how that's done :)
yorkie_chris
27-10-08, 05:56 PM
I say take front carb off... you take both off.
It does sound like you need to blow passageways and such out with carb cleaner and compressed air.
Wooohooo!!!
Bikes running :)
Carbs were full of oil, got a some help, bike started instantly on both cylinders :)
Didn't go for a ride just yet, but something tells me I'll be out for a spin pretty soon.
Big thanks for all the help!!!
yorkie_chris
31-10-08, 12:08 AM
Woop. Blowing carb passages sort it then?
A friend helped me, took carbs out, took the floating chamber cover (I think) off and cleaned with a carb cleaner (full of oil).
Bike starts fine although smokes a lot once warmer. (not so much now)
The subframe will need a bit of attention, but isn't too bad.
So, standard screen and fairings are back on again (I started liking the naked curvy a bit too much ;)), weather is supposed to be fine tomorrow, will probably do the "does the bike still ride in a straight line" test :)
yorkie_chris
31-10-08, 07:24 PM
Smoke will clear
Right, I kinda lost the 6.5x10x12 spacer (no8 ), and the rubbet thingy which is sitting in the side of the rad and the fairing "bolts" into it(more or less where the no 3 screw lives on the drawing).
Any idea where these can be obtained from?
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/1403/radmom0.jpg
EDIT:
Found the spacer in robinsons foundry, any idea, what's the rubber bit's part number?
Dangerous Dave
01-11-08, 10:27 AM
what's the rubber bit's part number?
That would be number seven on your image above, 09320-10042, a common part shared with other Suzuki's.
Cheers Dave,
I've taken the SV out for a run today...
Unfortunately problems didn't limited to the carbs... I'll start from the little ones...
First - Front subframe got hit and will probably need replacing (not much but fairings don't fit as they should). Saw that Dirty Dog is selling one.
The other two are... well... bad, I think...
Second - either the forks got twisted (they look ok) or they have moved in the yokes (is that possible?). In short if you keep the steering bars "straight" bike will drift towards the left. But if you take that into account and compensate for it, it'll go fine in a straight.
And finally the last and worst...
The whole run was going ok, so I got on a dual, got up to 70mph, all felt ok until I got to a fast S bend.
Front felt fine, but the rear started doing something completely different.
At speeds around 60-70mph (could be easily done with more), the rear was wobbly and felt like it was doing s'es, so I've slowed down (40-50mph) and it felt fine.
Please tell me it's not the frame... :---)
yorkie_chris
02-11-08, 12:27 PM
I doubt it'll be the frame as the rest of the bike is still intact. Check easy stuff first, tyre pressures etc.
I would suspect the last 2 are related.
Well... shame on me for not checking the tyre pressure before the ride yesterday... (rear was very low). That could explain the rear behaviour...
As for the front...
Someone told me that if I loosen the yokes, the forks can go back to normal... Tried that today but didn't ride it so don't know if it helped.
alan pasfield
03-11-08, 06:55 PM
check your connections to your starter may of knocked a wire loose
cheers, the starting issue has been fixed now (oil in carb).
The current problem is slightly twisted steering, don't know if it's due to twisted forks (they look ok) or something else.
Right,
Went into a garage today, looks like the steering will be fine now.
All that's need to be done now is to replace the subframe (it's not to difficult is or is it?), get a new rear tire (punctured, so no excuse now), give the engine a proper clean and it looks like it's all good.
Most of the stuff could have been done in a day or two, but lack of knowledge and sore ribs prevented that.
A big thanks to everyone, YC and the Sprearies especially for all the help :notworthy:
EDIT
One other thing I've noticed, the gear lever "thingy" is a bit bent, works fine, but will it brake if I try to straighten it?http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/4867/picture003yy9.jpg
EDIT
One other thing I've noticed, the gear lever "thingy" is a bit bent, works fine, but will it brake if I try to straighten it?
Possibly... seen a broken one and the metal looked pretty crystalline - if it works fine & doesn't annoy you I'd leave it alone (then again I'm Lazy and unadventurous)
yorkie_chris
08-11-08, 05:25 PM
If it works alright don't touch it. If not, then heat it up, let it cool then bend it.
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