Alternative fuel to Diesel (no, not for an SV)

[_Stretchie_]

Right oh mighty .ORG.

Lets see what you come up with, I want to run my diesel on alternate fuel.

The choices are:

Biodiesel or Vegetable oil

I HAVE researched this but am coming to the same problem whichever route I choose.. WHERE CAN I BUY LOTS OF VEGETABLE OIL?

My plan is to have a bunded tank of 1,000 – 1,500lts in the garage to store the stuff. The problem is getting a good, regular supply.

People have mentioned writing to local food places but that’s hardly a nice regular supply, what happens when they realise that there are companies that will not only collect it from them but also pay them for it? Then there is also getting back and filtering it before either A: using it as fuel or B: Converting it to Biodiesel. That's alot of meesing around.!!

Also some people buy job lots from supermarkets or from wholesalers but doing that would work out more effort than it’s worth, I will add right now that I have a Land Rover Discovery, at 95 litres per fill up there is not a hope in hell that I am going to fanny around topping up with 5l bottles from ASDA, even 20l cans from a wholesaler. This isn’t my idea of trouble free motoring, especially if you have to do this at least once a week and then you have the headache in having to dispose of all those containers.. Hence the big tank idea.

For example, I have an oil burning central heating system and basically you order a minimum of 500 litres and a company will come in a little tanker and fill up your tank. I’d love to do this but with a supply of vegetable oil.

ANY IDEAS? Any of you guys doing this?




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[G]

You do realise it illegal to do this unless you register with Custom & Excise and pay the necessary tax and fuel duty.....then it works out no cheaper

[Grinch]

Nope they changed the rules and I think you can use 50 litres a month with no need to pay them duty.

[G]

I dont think thats true......or how would you prove you had only used 50 litres.

They would not change a law to create one that is un-enforcable.

Having a 1500ltr bunded tank in your garage wouldnt help your case thats for sure.

[G]

On top of that you also need a licence for storing that amount of fuel. Someone has to come around and inspect your method of storage and the emergency procedures you have in place.....storage has to be certain disctances from buildings etc.

[Mr Speirs]

G its the same as when you are self employed. You have to declare your earnings but its not really enforcable.
50litres is the monthly limit before an individual needs to pay tax, fuel duty etc.

You don't think the gov with all their 'green talk' would let people be greener without paying them money do you? :)

[_Stretchie_]

As of last year you are allowed to use upto 2,500 litres a year before paying duty. If however you use 2,501 litres then you have to pay duty ON THE LOT.

Which still means (I may be wrong, I usually am), based on about 30ish MPG would come to about 16,000miles a year. I think they are basically trying to encourage the use alternative fuels by doing this but still it's exaclty rammed down your throat is it and I'm having trouble finding supplies.

[jimmy__riddle]

You do realise it illegal to do this unless you register with Custom & Excise and pay the necessary tax and fuel duty.....then it works out no cheaper

perfectly legal


as said in another post you can use 2500 litres a year. Just make sure you keep all receipts and a mileage log. it is down to you to be able to prove that you only used 2500 L. If you cant prove it they will look at your vehicles mileage and 'estimate' (with dodgey calculators) how much you have used and charge tax. Most of the people i know running it use a 50:50 mix, as during the colder months some types of veg oil go gel like. (but you can fit tank heaters).

[yorkie_chris]

In winter the veg oil will be thick, affects the burn quite badly and also can damage the fuel pump.

What engine is it, I'll have a chat with a mate of mine who dabbles with this sort of thing.

50:50 seems like the best bet to me

[Stu]

So have you converted your LR to 2 tanks (small diesel tank for start up)? or are you going to mix it with Diesel?
I used to buy vegetable oil in the supermarket when it was 35p a litre, but now it's 95p it's not any cheaper than diesel.
I guess you just have to speak to your local suppliers like a chippy & see waht they say. They will obviously already have their solution in place so just see how you can beat it or sneak the odd delivery in between?

[_Stretchie_]

300 TDi. I'm leaning towards a two tank solution, and a kit. My missus' dad does LPG conversaions, basically same thing but I'd buy the kit and bribe him to come help me fit it IF I can sort the fuel problem out.

Basically, you put the veg oil in your normal tank, you get a second smaller tank for Diesel (about30litres) and you're supposed to start on diesel then there is a heater to warm the veg oil up and make it thin, you switch over to the veg oil and before you stop switch back to diesel so the pipes are full of the thinner diesel as the engine is sat thus meaning good starts.

Good thing about the Disco is that there is a nice big gap under the body where a proper second tank can be fitted so that the crappy little second tank isn't in the car somewhere taking up room.

[jimmy__riddle]

personally i'd just mix it with diesel, save the cost of fitting another tank.

[Luckypants]

My lad ran his Delica on veg oil for a while, until the cost of oil went up to the same as diesel. This works better in some vehicles that others, generally older diesels will work well on veg oil, but most high pressure common rail diesels end up with orrible gunk on the piston rings from incomplete combustion and / or pump problems because of the veg oil being too thick.

I know I cannot run my Nissan 2.2 Di engine on veg oil, you need to check how the 300 TDi engine responds to veg oil.

[madness]

Just sounds like too much trouble to go to. Just think of all that time filtering used veg oil and mixing the bio-fuel and all the mess etc. etc. Time that could be better spent riding you bike. If fuel cost is so much of an issue why not buy a car with better mpg

[_Stretchie_]

Mine will be fine. New injectors and all that are included in the kit. There are certain cars that would have a problem if for example they have 'Lucas' injectors or fuel pumps'.

The clogging issue is MAINLY when people just put in veg oil instead off diesel. It SHOULD be heated to make it thinner before going into the engine as A: It is thicker and B: It has a much higher flash point, which basically means that it won't burn properly if you put it in cold. Then you get the build ups and the globules ( I like that word.. GLOBULES.. ha haa) in the engine and poss coming out of the exhaust

[_Stretchie_]

I see you point mate but..

Just sounds like too much trouble to go to. Just think of all that time filtering used veg oil and mixing the bio-fuel and all the mess etc. etc. Time that could be better spent riding you bike. If fuel cost is so much of an issue why not buy a car with better mpg


A: The mixing is if you want to make Bio-Diesel but I don't, I want to run on veg oil. Confused? I was. Basically.

Here's the difference

Fuel and action needed to run on that fuel

Bio-Diesel - None, just put it in the tank, the only thing you alter is the fuel you put in

Veg Oil - Fit a conversion kit to the car, you start and stop the engine on diesel power.

After that:

Veg oil goes straight in then. Used veg oil should be filtered then goes straight in.

Bio-diesel however needs the veg oil to be filtered, heated, mixed, dried etc. The government standard for bio-diesel is that as a minimum to be called Bio-Diesel it needs to be 5% bio and 95% diesel so basically if you find Bio on a forecourt it will still be 95% normal diesel. What's the point?

Pro's and cons for everything I suppose

B: About the bike, you are dead right. Please consider my head held down in shame :smt086

C: Wanna buy me a new car that will comforatbly fit 4 dogs, go off roading and still give us enough room to do all this while away on a camping weekend (it'll be at the next AR). Also... Because I LUVS IT :p

[punyXpress]

Wasn't there a thread on here a couple of days ago regarding Police cars having the wrong fuel put in them??
SOLUTION:
Buy the dud mix off them at a low price.
Flare off the petrol using the heat provided to run your central heating.
Put what's left in the car & enjoy your ( free ) motoring.
Clever bu99ers can modify the flare stage by distilling off the petrol & using it in their SV

[yorkie_chris]

Yeah but what's chances of them selling you the mix?