Plumbers - combi boiler question

[steveg]

Hi ,

My 30 year old boiler has gone pop , thinking of taking hot water tank out & fitting a combi boiler .

Any one recommend a good combi boiler ?

Thinking of a Worcester Greenstar 27 CDi or a mate said he can get me a Ferroli optimax boiler cheap ...
Never heard of Ferroli any plumbers in the org ?

Any ball park figures for a plumber to fit combi & remove hot water tank ?

Cheers Steveg

[embee]

Screwfix forums (http://www.screwfix.com/talk/forum.jspa?forumID=25)are useful for info on that sort of thing. Basically Worcester/Bosch or Vaillant seem favoured for reliability. Steer clear of others.

Various views on combi vs system (hot water storage cylinder). Personally I'd keep a system boiler if the rest of the "system" is in decent nick. Combis do have advantages in some circumstances, but there are downsides too.

[Paul the 6th]

interesting - will have a look on the screwfix forums :) just bought a house which has been stood for a year, sediment was coming through the hot water system but it seems to have cleared now, although the sf forums could be a great place to get advice about upgrades such as this :)

[kwak zzr]

Ive got a ferroli combi, touch wood never had any problems, my mates a plumber and recommends Worcester Bosch boilers.

[steveg]

Hi Kwak ,

What model is your ferroli boiler , did you get much warranty with it ?

Have been without a working boiler for 12 months now and the wife is getting a bit ****ed off now , I'm not bothered but it I need to keep the peace ....

Cheers Steveg

[kwak zzr]

mines an F24 and it came with 24 months warranty and then cheap year on year warranty and servicing, ferroli is only lichfield/burton area.
where in the midlands are you steve? my mates a corgi plumber and i'm sure he'd give you a good quote if you mentioned me, he works the walsall area but will travel for work, PM me for my number if your intrested.

[Sid Squid]

Definately Worcester-Bosch, excellent boilers.

[timwilky]

Definately Worcester-Bosch, excellent boilers.

Mine is now 3 years old. I did have a problem with a leaky internal pipe where the manufacturers appeared to have bodged a stripped plastic screw fitting and it cost me their standard £170 call out/service/fix. although they also replaced a couple of components as well as the knackered pipe.

mine is a 28 cdi. issues are speed to fill a bath and the water temperature. the only way to get the temp as hot as I like is to run it slowly and takes 5 mins to fill bath etc.

topping up the water system is puzzling first time as you have to insert a plastic key and then open the fill tap.

[MrMessy]

We are starting to fit the Worcester Greenstars at work, so should be O/K. Combi boilers are O/K but a lot of things in them to go wrong. If rest of system o/k you could go for a condensing boiler. I have a project at work and doing just that, plus gives you immersion heater back up if boiler/gas fails!Also considerably cheaper.

[dirtydog]

Combi boilers are O/K but a lot of things in them to go wrong. If rest of system o/k you could go for a condensing boiler. I have a project at work and doing just that, plus gives you immersion heater back up if boiler/gas fails!Also considerably cheaper.

There's no more things in a combi boiler than there is in a system so plenty to go wrong with both. I agree with the immersion heater back up though. I think any new boiler that's fitted now is meant to be a condensing boiler as that's the current standard.

Another thing to think about is whether you're replacing the entire system or just the boiler, if you have showers/baths etc as Tim says if you want the water at a hot temp you need to run it slower.

[454697819]

my dad who fits these day in day out will now only fit worcester boilers as they are the most reliable ha has come accross.

Not the cheapest but for a reason

[nakedblue650]

We are starting to fit the Worcester Greenstars at work, so should be O/K. Combi boilers are O/K but a lot of things in them to go wrong. If rest of system o/k you could go for a condensing boiler. I have a project at work and doing just that, plus gives you immersion heater back up if boiler/gas fails!Also considerably cheaper.
http://forums.sv650.org/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://forums.sv650.org/images/buttons/report.gif (http://forums.sv650.org/report.php?p=1673562)

Me thinks you dont know what your on about! All boilers have to be condensing (high efficiency) these days in residential dwellings.

Only go down the combi route if you have sufficient water flow rate and pressure available.

When getting a combi the numerical reference will indicate the hot water avaiable power. The higher the number the better your hot water will perform. The heating output is generally lower than the hot water outout and will modulate down anyway. So bear in mind how many hot water draw offs you have.

You wont go far wrong with Worcester although they have a aluminium/silica heat exchange which renders the Vaillant brand better as they have a stainless steel hex. For a economical alternative to Vaillant try Glow-worm.

Also get quotes from local installers to supply and fit the appliance - you may have warranty issues if DIYing namely because it has to be notified to local Building Control and the manufacturer may ask for the Notification before working on it.

HTH

nb650

[sam_p2000]

Depends what size house you have and how many users will be drawing water at the same time. Because of the labour difference have you considered doing a direct replacement with a Worcester Bosch 24Ri? The advantage to this is that you can always upgrade your hot water cylinder to an unvented cylinder at a later date (or at the same time) this way you will have high flow rate hot water, and still have immersion backup and an economic boiler.

Cost of a 24ri is in the region of £600-650 before VAT and then the price of the flue whih will be around £100 for a conventional one going straight out behind the boiler (roof terminals are more)

Fitting a conventional boiler should take no more than a day for a skilled heating engineer at whatever his day rate is (2 if he's power flushing the heating at the same time and has to upgrade the gas supply) (my company is £400/day +vat)

Finally best boilers in my opinion are indeed the Worcester Bosch range as they use alloy heat exchangers and not stainless steel ones which can occasionally be prone to cracking (so i'm lead to believe). Or if your gas supply is only 15mm and cant be easily upgraded then an 'Ideal'

Hope this helps

[Orpheus]

I work in a plumbing and heating merchants, so i know a little bit.

Worcester are a top make of boiler, A rated efficiency-wise so lower bills and 2 year guarantee. Think we sell it for about £800+vat off the top of my head. The main thing you have to think about is if you have a decent mains pressure coming in, because that will directly effect the flow rate of the hot water. Also how many people are in the house, because running more than one water outlet at once will slow the flow a lot. i.e, you will not be able to run 2 showers at once.

[MrMessy]

1) I know all boilers have to be condensing! Did I say otherwise?
2) You need to be Corgi registered for domestic gas installation, to work on the gas installation.

[nakedblue650]

1) I know all boilers have to be condensing! Did I say otherwise?

Afraid so love!

If rest of system o/k you could go for a condensing boiler.

Reading back I assume you mean conventional (heat only).

2) You need to be Corgi registered for domestic gas installation, to work on the gas installation.

Unless it is in your own home but this can still cause probs with notifying/warranty.

as they use alloy heat exchangers and not stainless steel ones which can occasionally be prone to cracking (so i'm lead to believe). Or if your gas supply is only 15mm and cant be easily upgraded then an 'Ideal'


Never experienced 'cracking' from stainless steel hex but we use Vaillant or Glowworm for SS hex models.
Had a few alloy hex problems - deteriorate faster than an SV!!!!!!! Mostly Ideal ones at that though.

nb650

[454697819]

you cannot make a final connection to a gas supply unless you are corgi registered...

the internal work you CAN do yourself but you wont find a corgi registered person that will sign off your work in order to make the final connection,,

[timwilky]

I think you will find the rules do not explicitly say Corgi registered but that you have to be a competent installer and the only recognised certification of competence is to be Corgi registered.

A few years ago I called a friend (Corgi registered) and commercial boiler installer re a problem with my old boiler.

"What is up with it" he says. "The gas valve had gone". "Why you calling me."
"I ain't Corgi registered to do it my self."

FFS he says. I know you are more capable than 90% of the so called registered installers. Just replace it and any one asks, I installed it. Job sorted 2 hours later and ran fine till the boiler was replaced.

[dirtydog]

I think you will find the rules do not explicitly say Corgi registered but that you have to be a competent installer and the only recognised certification of competence is to be Corgi registered.


You are correct there Tim, although it wont be Corgi for a whole lot longer

[dizzyblonde]

You are correct there Tim, although it wont be Corgi for a whole lot longer

Why what new hoops are they trying to get plumbers to jump through to prove they ain't a cowboy.
Corgi registration is why my dad retired, even though he could teach Corgi a thing or two!...still had him install my central heating though, with a little help from moi

[454697819]

Granted you dont HAVE to be Corgi registered but the gas companies will not let you final connect to thier system unless you are...

Corgi is not law but is best Code of practice.... and aproved by the H&S exec..

although they have been told to wind thier neck in recently too...!

[454697819]

Why what new hoops are they trying to get plumbers to jump through to prove they ain't a cowboy.
Corgi registration is why my dad retired, even though he could teach Corgi a thing or two!...still had him install my central heating though, with a little help from moi


i think its to do with monopolies etc...

there is only corgi atm and they are getting too big for thier boots...

[dirtydog]

Why what new hoops are they trying to get plumbers to jump through to prove they ain't a cowboy.
Corgi registration is why my dad retired, even though he could teach Corgi a thing or two!...still had him install my central heating though, with a little help from moi


Corgi is no longer the prefered body of the HSE from April1st 2009 it will be Capita registered plumber you will need to do gas work on your house. So most likely the same sort of thing but a different name.


i think its to do with monopolies etc...

there is only corgi atm and they are getting too big for thier boots...

Not quite to do with monopolies as there will still be only 1 governing body (Capita). The HSE have had a bit of a beef with Corgi over a few things including this...

During 2006 a HSE review of the domestic gas safety regime and discussions with stakeholders in and outside the industry identified a case for change. Research by the University College London, found that of those interviewed in a survey of 597 homes, 45% had little understanding of the risks associated with gas and carbon monoxide.

The HSE admitted that criticisms by stakeholders of the existing gas installer registration scheme run by CORGI, "had some foundation".

A spokesman for the HSE said "Even though the official statistics were showing an improving picture, it was felt that more should be done to raise public awareness of gas and CO risks".


And the fact that Corgi was getting more and more commercial when they weren't meant to be a commercial set up

[nakedblue650]

Granted you dont HAVE to be Corgi registered but the gas companies will not let you final connect to thier system unless you are...

Corgi is not law but is best Code of practice.... and aproved by the H&S exec..

although they have been told to wind thier neck in recently too...!
Out of curiosity are you CORGI regd?

Corgi is no longer the prefered body of the HSE from April1st 2009 it will be Capita registered plumber you will need to do gas work on your house.
Ironically CAPITA offered best value which I find strange! I dont believe the HSE should be awarding on this basis as the original plan was that CORGI would be self financing and focussed on safety. Instead we can look foward to the administration outsource giants CAPITA to lead gas safety foward whilst rewarding their shareholders!

JOY!

nb650

[nakedblue650]

Research by the University College London, found that of those interviewed in a survey of 597 homes, 45% had little understanding of the risks associated with gas and carbon monoxide.


Small sample of population and if it was done near UCL 80% of those interviewed would have had difficulty in understanding the question with english as a second language!

nb650

[dirtydog]

Ironically CAPITA offered best value which I find strange! I dont believe the HSE should be awarding on this basis as the original plan was that CORGI would be self financing and focussed on safety. Instead we can look foward to the administration outsource giants CAPITA to lead gas safety foward whilst rewarding their shareholders!

JOY!

nb650

That's pretty much what everyone I've spoken to has said

[sam_p2000]

Small sample of population and if it was done near UCL 80% of those interviewed would have had difficulty in understanding the question with english as a second language!

nb650


:-D:-D:mrgreen: This is not far from the truth! Going off at a tangent again, but i'm sure I have heard a rumour that soon you will be unable to buy fixed gas appliances without a valid CORGI card? Or if this just something floating about my local merchant's? Im not CORGI reg'd but am looking into getting trained again as my old portfolio is too old to use :mad:. CORGI are a nightmare to get onboard with.

[dirtydog]

i'm sure I have heard a rumour that soon you will be unable to buy fixed gas appliances without a valid CORGI card?

I've not heard that rumour yet

[nakedblue650]

Its being touted at the mo in a similar vein as Partscentre not selling gas carrying components to noncard carrying engineers (as if!). However you will probably find that all the MPs who have shares in the DIY sheds will oppose it!


nb650