Hostage rescue at sea?

[lazymanc]

Some of you may have heard a month or so ago about a Ukranian cargo ship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Faina) which has been hijacked by Somali pirates.

Now the cargo was a rather dubious cache of soviet-era weapons and dozens of T72 tanks, supposedly heading for Kenya but now discovered under further examination to have been heading for Sudan. The pirates themselves were supposedly unawares of what the ship contained until they boarded it, but they have threatened to destroy the ship along with everyone on board if the ransom of $20 million is not paid.

Ignoring for the minute the fact that the crew were delivering arms to a regime guilty of mass genocide and probably deserve anything they get...

Would it be possible to perform some kind of special forces rescue mission in this situation or is that completely in the realms of Holywood fantasy considering the number of bad guys (approx 50+) and the sh*tload of military hardware on board?

I would imagine said pirates are probably a rag-tag bunch of thugs with sod-all military training, but a boat is probably a fairly good defensive prospect with all the narrow corridors and threats to scupper it? (This is going purely from my avid video-game habit and probably has no basis in reality! :))

I know we have a couple of military / special forces types on here so I'd be fascinated to hear your opinion on the matter?

[bris]

A couple of torpedoes should do the trick, get the hijackers and keep the hardware away from the junta.

[yorkie_chris]

Bit harsh on the crew like!

I do wonder how pirates manage to capture large ships like that with small boats, surely a couple of blokes with GPMGs would make mincemeat out of them.

[jimmy-james]

Bit harsh on the crew like!

I do wonder how pirates manage to capture large ships like that with small boats, surely a couple of blokes with GPMGs would make mincemeat out of them.

Under GMDSS they have to carry liferafts with a bit of warning crew would be fine lol! They flank the vessel with extremely fast ribs and board it using grapeling hooks on mass entrance to the med (Gibraltar Straits) is a real hotspot for it and even naval vessels have to be on guard.

[Tiger 55]

I think we should all offer our amateur opinions on this until the thread is at least 2 pages long and then let Dangerous Dave blow us all out of the water. Metaphorically speaking.

My own take is that killing the pirates is easy, saving the crew is the difficult bit...

[neio79]

It probably would be possible, Chances are if it was done by the UK the SBS would be inserted into the area by Sub and crack on from there, or dropped of in ridged raiders out the back of a CH-47.

I am quessing but i am sure DD will eloborate on how the SBS lads might go about it if it happened in UK waters.

[MiniMatt]

I think we should all offer our amateur opinions on this until the thread is at least 2 pages long and then let Dangerous Dave blow us all out of the water. Metaphorically speaking.

My own take is that killing the pirates is easy, saving the crew is the difficult bit...

Teehee :D

Personally I reckon I can do it on an XBox so I don't see why it should be any harder in real life....

[timwilky]

Slightly off topic, but re the somaili pirate generally.

I find it strange that they have been permitted to operate for so long.

I would have thought it was not beyond the capability of Nato/UN etc to send a disguised ship into the area, as and when the pirates appear, blow them out of the water. Once it has happened a few times they are going to think before attacking any vessel.

[Paul the 6th]

send steven segal to sort them out. Haven't you seen under seige 1 & 2?!

[Baph]

I'd love to hear the opinion of someone like Dangerous Dave on this. However, I feel that he may not be able to give his opinion in as much detail as we'd all love to hear it. :(

[yorkie_chris]

I am quessing but i am sure DD will eloborate on how the SBS lads might go about it if it happened in UK waters.

Or if it were a UK flagged or owned ship.

[Scooby Drew]

I'm not sure why anyone is worried about the crew of the ship, they are trafficking in arms and get what they get - in this case a torpedo in the fundamental orifice.

[yorkie_chris]

Trafficking in arms is a bit strong there, you think the poor bugger who oils bits of the motor gets to look through manifest before they set off?

[Paul the 6th]

send bruce as well

[454697819]

hell fire and damnation should Sort that...

[dizzyblonde]

send steven segal to sort them out. Haven't you seen under seige 1 & 2?!

send bruce as well

No I'm afraid there is only one man for the job....and that man is..










....




.....
















CHUCK NORRIS:rambo::smt070

[yorkie_chris]

Some say, he can slam a revolving door, and that he is the reason wally is hiding.

[Viney]

Stop there. Dont derail the thread

[yorkie_chris]

The French were pretty clever when one of their ships was hijacked, they paid the ransom, then as pirates attempted to escape into desert they went and kicked some rse by helicopter. 6 of the little scamps are now awaiting trial.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Ponant

[wyrdness]

The Royal Navy have just shot a couple of Somali pirates:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7725771.stm

[Tiger 55]

the crew were delivering arms to a regime guilty of mass genocide and probably deserve anything they get...

I'm not sure why anyone is worried about the crew of the ship, they are trafficking in arms and get what they get
Hmm. What about the crews of the British ships that transport the Royal Tank Regiment's vehicles around the world? What do they deserve to get?

[Ceri JC]

Most pirates in that neck of the woods are ex-fishermen and despite their viciousness are not from trained military backgrounds.

[Scooby Drew]

Hmm. What about the crews of the British ships that transport the Royal Tank Regiment's vehicles around the world? What do they deserve to get?

Some of you may have heard a month or so ago about a Ukranian cargo ship which has been hijacked by Somali pirates.I was commenting on the specific case mentioned at the begining of the thread, not in general.

[yorkie_chris]

Yes this cargo appears to be a bit dodgy from what's been said on wikipedia. However despite the "moral" aspects of selling weaponry. It is actually legal for one country to sell arms to another, or even companies, when they have permission of their governments. It is also legal for a ship to be contracted or chartered to carry said arms.

Obviously there's more to it than that, selling government won't sell to an unfriendly nation, or sell secret technology (or allow a company to export the same). And buying government must usually officially state that they will be the end users and not sell it on to any eejit with a briefcase full of cash. But we don't know what the hells going on with that ship! Arms exporter isn't going to say, Kenya "denies the allegation", maybe because they want their tanks, maybe because they're embarrased that someone supplied sellers with a dodgy end user statement... who knows?

So, might be an idea to find out who is selling this cargo to who before recommending a torpedo up the rse.

[Tiger 55]

I was commenting on the specific case mentioned at the begining of the thread, not in general.
Ah, righto. It's not Brits, it's probably not Jonny Foreigner in general, not even specifically Ukranians, it's just this specific crew.

You must know an awful lot more about them than I do.

[Scooby Drew]

Ah, righto. It's not Brits, it's probably not Jonny Foreigner in general, not even specifically Ukranians, it's just this specific crew.

You must know an awful lot more about them than I do.

Sure do ;)

[yorkie_chris]

Even if you take a hippyish approach to international arms dealers, think that Johnny Jihad and his bunch of bloodthirsty pirates need turning into shark food and all of the crew have had an affair with your missus and daughter... Surely you got to note that ships are bloody expensive, so banging a hole in it probably isn't a good idea.

[Tiger 55]

Sure do ;)
Go on then, tell me! Please, I'll be your best friend! :D

[Scooby Drew]

Go on then, tell me! Please, I'll be your best friend! :D

morethanmyjobsworthmate :D

[yorkie_chris]

So give us a clue... who do you work for?

[Scooby Drew]

SoSS

[yorkie_chris]

As in surveillance people? I take it this ship has been a little naughty in the past then.

[Luckypants]

You make concealed door hinges?

[Scooby Drew]

Society of Secret Squirrels ;)I'll be on my way before I get done for derailing another thread...

[Biker Biggles]

Im sure DD can confirm that it certainly could be done given the politacal will,but it would involve military incursions into someone elses territorial waters.
As for the crew,they are employed to work on the ship and have no input into the legalities of what it carries or where it goes.
Piracy is a big problem for merchant shipping and it is dead easy to board and capture a small or medium size cargo ship.They have small crews,and are often totally unarmed.When I worked on British cargo ships I never saw a firearm bigger than an air rifle carried on any of them except in port when we sometimes had armed guards provided by the "host"nation.
Pirates were avoided by going at full speed and not stopping for anything!

[timwilky]

Pirates were avoided by going at full speed and not stopping for anything!


The problem with these pirates is that they come alongside you and threaten to pop a few RPGs into your hull. Merchant vessels are not designed to withstand explosives. Hence stopping and allowing to board etc.

So if they make the threat, I see no reason why crews don't simply pop a few RPGs back at them.

[Demonz]

The would be doing everyone a favour if they blow it up. Maybe the west should offer them 5 million to blow it and walk away.

[Biker Biggles]

You are correct.The pirates in my youth were not that well armed,and relied on boarding a ship in order to start shooting.
A couple of examples.
In the 1970s the Nigerians decided to spend some of their dosh on a new port for Lagos.They ordered the entire port to be delivered by ship so they could build it,but the old port could only unload a couple of ships at a time,so a queue built up of some 200 ships at anchor off Lagos.Some were there for years,and some sank there while waiting.Canny shipowners who had chartered out their oldest wrecks,paid for by the day made fortunes.The local pirates had a field day too,as many of the ships were reduced to crews of three or four.The pirates did get stuffed though when they attacked a Russian ship,and again on an Israeli ship,both of which were heavily armed.

[Geoffrey]

Would it be possible to perform some kind of special forces rescue mission in this situation or is that completely in the realms of Holywood fantasy considering the number of bad guys (approx 50+) and the sh*tload of military hardware on board?
I am a former RAF load master, I worked with special forces in the past during my career with 27sqn and 47sqn. So this is my opinion on what can be done from an RAF point of view;

We have a specialist service in the UK arsenal called the Special Boat Service (http://forums.sv650.org/www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSsBDpFGLrc) (SBS), they are a sister unit to the Special Air Service (SAS) but they also specialise in amphibious warfare. They train in terrorist situations on a ship in Portsmouth and on the oil rings on the Scottish coast. We have a member on this forum who is in this unit derived from the Royal Marines. By air the SBS could be HALO'd in along with a Rigid Raider (http://forums.sv650.org/www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9pA4I606No) out of a Lockheed Hercules C130, or a low level departure from a Chinook CH47. The mentality of these guys is unbelievable, laughing and joking on route before jumping out of an aircraft flying at its maximum ceiling whilst close to the weight limit of their parachutes. As from here, that is the realm of Dangerous Dave. Odd for him to not comment on this type of thread, but looking at another thread he is already busy.

[captainsmelly]

didn't DD get called up this morning? oooooh our very own hero

[Bibio]

didn't DD get called up this morning? oooooh our very own hero

according to his fiancé he got dragged out his bed at 3am this morning ....

can DD swim...

visions of DD with scuba gear on, swimming with limpet mines just cracks me up ... :smt046

[Geoffrey]

Would it be possible to perform some kind of special forces rescue mission in this situation
http://forums.sv650.org/image.php?u=7466&dateline=1226520724&type=profile
Found this on DD's profile.

[MCN_LiamM]

Blow the B****rds up and claim the crew/pirates accidentally set one of the weapions off...

[TEC]

Not really been paying any attention to this story so not sure what flag the ship is sailing under :rolleyes: but unless its UK, even though they could, the special forces wont be used unless specifically asked to intervene by that goverment

[yorkie_chris]

It's Belize flagged according to the wiki article, Ukranian owned and held in Somalia.

[Becks]

I do not want to talk about this too much, if authorised British Special Forces can operate in any waters with the permission of the territories government and the vessels government. Permission is not necessary if any hostages are British citizens, if the vessel is in British waters, or if actions are not liable to become public.

[Biker Biggles]

I bet its insured at Lloyds of London though so does that give us an excuse to knock a few heads together?

[Becks]

can DD swim...
He is a qualified Navy Diver.

[TEC]

I bet its insured at Lloyds of London though so does that give us an excuse to knock a few heads together?
Sadly not :(

[Tiger 55]

Permission is not necessary...if actions are not liable to become public.
I must've missed that class in Public International Law.

How come you don't want to talk about it Becks?

[Becks]

How come you don't want to talk about it Becks?
Because my other half is Dangerous Dave and he was called out, he has "gone swimming" which means whatever he is doing he has gone straight into the deep end and putting his skills to use. I do not know where he has gone, I worry enough not knowing and would not like to know and then see the outcome on the news without hearing from him first.

[Becks]

I must've missed that class in Public International Law.
Quite simple to understand, if you can sneak into hostile territory and back out again with nobody knowing you were there or involved why ask? Wrong I know but this is what surveillance people do all the time, I understand Dave had done a few naughty sorties too.

[yorkie_chris]

Lol, one of those perfectly legal untill you get caught types of thing :-P

[Becks]

He is too smart to get caught, or is that stupid?

[lazymanc]

Sorry, when I originally posted the thread I wasn't expecting DD to be on active duty, it was more of a hypothetical question than anything - typical that I ask it just as he gets called up!

I'm sure he'll be fine Becks, the British Special Forces wouldn't have the international reputation they hold if they weren't the best in the world.

[Becks]

That ok lazymanc, I am sure he will be fine too. It is the not knowing that makes me worry, I know how competent he is but it is unexpected things that can happen. The British are the best in the world, I may be biased, but having lived with one for many years I know they are called all around the world to deal with things. Dave is very professional and very defensive towards the Royal Marines.

I will let him know about this thread when he comes back to me, the SBS are not secretive they simply do not talk about things. They are not hounded by the press, wannabes or fanatics and neither do they have a fictional reputation to uphold. They go about a normal life as much as possible.

[Lozzo]

Hmm. What about the crews of the British ships that transport the Royal Tank Regiment's vehicles around the world? What do they deserve to get?

Nothing, they're not supplying arms to dodgy nations.

Personally, I wouldn't crew any ship that was involved in carring arms for any nation's forces other than my own or trusted commonwealth countries such as Australia, Canada etc

[Becks]

:thumleft::smt045:bounce::smt055\\:D/:thumbsup:[-o<:thumright::smt026

He will be back on UK soil by 1800hrs

[Tiger 55]

if you can sneak into hostile territory and back out again with nobody knowing you were there or involved why ask?
That's what I thought. A bit like not requiring permission to borrow your Dad's car provided you get it back before he notices it's gone. :)

Anyway, give Dave a big sloppy kiss from me when he gets in. :smt008

[Dangerous Dave]

I am quessing but i am sure DD will eloborate on how the SBS lads might go about it if it happened in UK waters.
Doesn't have to be UK waters, a UK ship, or a UK crew...

Would it be possible to perform some kind of special forces rescue mission in this situation or is that completely in the realms of Holywood fantasy considering the number of bad guys (approx 50+) and the sh*tload of military hardware on board?

I know we have a couple of military / special forces types on here so I'd be fascinated to hear your opinion on the matter?
Do you still want to know???

Anyway, give Dave a big sloppy kiss from me when he gets in. :smt008
Thank you

[Tiger 55]

Thank you
You're welcome.

I still want to know...

[Dangerous Dave]

the SBS are not secretive they simply do not talk about things. They are not hounded by the press, wannabes or fanatics and neither do they have a fictional reputation to uphold. They go about a normal life as much as possible.
Spot on old bird, x

I still want to know...
The average CT team is eight men; these are the entry methods...

Swimmer Deliver Vehicle (SDV) Our latest SDV's (mini sub's) latch on to the back of submarines or on board surface vessels and can be transported around the world. This is the covert method of attack, from an SDV we can swim to the ship and board.
http://regmedia.co.uk/2007/05/31/navy_sdv.jpg

High Altitude-High Opening (HAHO) We jump from a C130 in full diver gear and oxygen, from high altitude we can travel 35+ miles. This method of entry is ideal if we do not have permission to enter the territory, we can disembark the aircraft from a secure flight path. As said we will be in full diving gear, plus 90kg on our normal jump weight not including weapons and specialist tactical gear. We can then swim to the ship in question, anywhere between 2-10 miles and board.
http://www.boekje-pienter.nl/images/haho_en_halo.jpg

Rigid Raider This method would be the risky; we will be seen/heard coming and will board the ship under fire. A rigid raider can be deployed from a low or high level C130 pass, a CH47, or from a surface vessel. Two rigid raiders at a minimum would be used, one to draw confusion whilst the others can board and cover.
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/5/51/300px-Wfm_rigid_raider.jpg

Rappel This would be the most risky method, us and a heli will be under fire whilst boarding. Quite simple to explain, a CH47 will hover and we will rappel from the rear and side door. We have trained to be on the ropes before the aircraft has reached the target.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_wsrQMsOVUn8/SHanq6Sx4pI/AAAAAAAAHKY/ykDxlOSJ8K0/2ez1.jpg

Now as this is a hostage situation it requires a little tact, the eight man team will be split in to two patrols (lets say 'A' Alpha and 'B' Bravo)...

Alpha team will be deployed by either HAHO or SDV, prior to the initial assault. Alpha's priority is to secure the hostages. Alpha will board the ship under the cover of darkness, locate the hostages and set up defensive positions. Bravo team will be inserted via Rigid Raider, as Bravo approach the ship Alpha team will begin the assault (notice we do not call them rescues). Alpha will secure the hostages, secure the area and split into two (Alpha and Charlie). Alpha will remain with the hostages; Charlie will begin the assault on the targets as Bravo board the ship. Bravo will secure the deck, and then split (Bravo and Delta). Delta will assault the bridge along with Charlie whilst Bravo ensures the route from hostage point to evac point is secure. Charlie and Delta will give the call as secure, at which point Alpha and Bravo will escort the hostages to the evac point. Delta will carry out a sweep of the ship, whilst Charlie will cover the deck for Alpha and Bravo to evac the hostages. All hostages will be held on the deck, cuffed and processed before departing the ship.

This is assuming all goes well, and by the information provided so far, but in the SBS we always have a back up plan.

Any questions?

[neio79]

Any questions?


Yeah if i do my SFC course or all arm comando course can i join in sounds fun!! :cool:.

And dumb questio nas i kind of already know the answer but what about boat troop from the sabre Sqn's?

[Dangerous Dave]

And dumb questio nas i kind of already know the answer but what about boat troop from the sabre Sqn's?
SAS do not do seaborne counter terrorism, boat troop is not counter terrorism and is for the use of RR's to get up river.

SBS nolonger except SAS or Army, RM's only now as we are have had issues. To join SBS you need two years service, two combat tours, pass SAS selection, pass SBS selection (you can't start that without passing SAS selection), and then pass artic warfare.


SBS nolonger except SAS or Army, RM's only now as we are have had issues

I am not going to say any more on this Neio, I know you are proud to serve in the Army and I have respect for you for that. It is nothing against you personally. Plus I am not in a mood to argue with orgers today.

[neio79]

SAS do not do seaborne counter terrorism, boat troop is not counter terrorism and is for the use of RR's to get up river.

SBS nolonger except SAS or Army, RM's only now as we are have had issues. To join SBS you need two years service, two combat tours, pass SAS selection, pass SBS selection (you can't start that without passing SAS selection), and then pass artic warfare.


I am not going to say any more on this Neio, I know you are proud to serve in the Army and I have respect for you for that. It is nothing against you personally. Plus I am not in a mood to argue with orgers today.


I htought that was the case mate. Had heard that. I understand when going for SBS if you pass SAS selection they can stop join the SAS or decide to carry on with SBS selection?

If you dont mind me asking where do you get your Scaleys from then. I know the normal RM's have us attached after doing the course. Buti know 18SR dont support the SBS. so do you have your own ones or source them from Scaleys that are attached to RM and put them through SBS.

no need to apologise my friend i know SBS is a different kettle of fish.

SFC is my cealling i think.

[yorkie_chris]

Interesting reading cheers Dave.

[lazymanc]

Any questions?

I think you missed out the bits where someone pops out of a giant cake and a makeshift microwave bomb is constructed! ;)

I jest, of course. Thanks for that DD, it was a far more complete explanation than I was expecting.

Do any other nations have a specific amphibious special forces unit? (assuming that's the right term to use)

Also, when you're swimming, how do you prevent your weapons from getting wet or doesn't it matter?

[Baph]

Also, when you're swimming, how do you prevent your weapons from getting wet or doesn't it matter?

I'd imagine that special forces would take weapons/ammo whereby it doesn't matter if it gets wet. Either that or shove a cork in it. ;) :lol:

[Dangerous Dave]

I htought that was the case mate. Had heard that. I understand when going for SBS if you pass SAS selection they can stop join the SAS or decide to carry on with SBS selection?
Very true, and for now it is the only option for non-RM.

If you dont mind me asking where do you get your Scaleys from then. I know the normal RM's have us attached after doing the course. Buti know 18SR dont support the SBS. so do you have your own ones or source them from Scaleys that are attached to RM and put them through SBS.
After passing the artic warfare we are segregated into a 'profession', we train our own. We are becoming a self sufficient service, although it makes us out casts it does help professionalise our methods.

no need to apologise my friend i know SBS is a different kettle of fish.
I’m just a bit pi**ed off at the moment, very poor intel for the past few days which could have compromised safety.

[yorkie_chris]

Doesn't matter with many weapons, just don't fire one with the barrel full of water. You can get primer sealant, but I think issue military ammo is already sealed.

[Dangerous Dave]

Do any other nations have a specific amphibious special forces unit? (assuming that's the right term to use)
Yeah, there are a few of us about. The most famous would be the US SEALS; we do a few joint training exercises.

Also, when you're swimming, how do you prevent your weapons from getting wet or doesn't it matter?
We use the Diemaco C8 as a main assault rifle, it is derived from the Colt M4 Carbine and specifically designed for amphibious forces, the version we use is exclusive to us. We have yet to have any issues with this weapon.

Doesn't matter with many weapons, just don't fire one with the barrel full of water. You can get primer sealant, but I think issue military ammo is already sealed.
Aye, but a condom over the barrel is added protection. The problem is the salt water for long periods of time, for this we carry a pouch/sack attached to our chests on top of the rebreathers. Also a pouch/sack for comms equipment, ammo, secondary firearms, respirators, etc. We drag with us on average 70kg each.

[yorkie_chris]

Yeah only 70kg when getting into and out of water lol.

I've always liked military diving kit, but never been able to get on with a chest mounted one. You lads use o2 like the draeger sets or have something more advanced now?

[Flamin_Squirrel]

The most famous would be the US SEALS; we do a few joint training exercises.

I'd be interested on your views about them.

[Dangerous Dave]

Yeah only 70kg when getting into and out of water lol.
Depends on the situation and what is required.

I've always liked military diving kit, but never been able to get on with a chest mounted one. You lads use o2 like the draeger sets or have something more advanced now?
Aye, we use the Dragger Lar V.

[yorkie_chris]

Tried to find one of those on civilian market a couple of years ago. Fook me they're stupidly priced for what they are... all because people go "navy seals... oooooh" lol

[Ed]

Another ship taken over by pirates now, a Saudi oil tanker somewhere off Kenya. It's on the BBC news site.

[Dangerous Dave]

I'd be interested on your views about them.
Off to get debriefed now, and let loose....

I'll be back to answer that one later.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Off to get debriefed now, and let loose....

I'll be back to answer that one later.

Cheers!

[Biker Biggles]

I bet the US will have something to say about this tanker being hijacked.There will be 100000 tons of their oil in it for starters.First impression is that its a long way South of Somalia though.Maybe a bigger international hit going on here.

[Tiger 55]

Thanks Dave, that was a lot more detailed than I was expecting.

I had the privilege of seeing you close up 20 odd years ago. We were stooging along in the Channel for the benefit of various big wigs while your chaps dropped down, rose up, slid out and otherwise magically entered our lives. Impressive.

Now then, Captain Darling will pump you thoroughly in the debriefing room!

[Dangerous Dave]

I had the privilege of seeing you close up 20 odd years ago. We were stooging along in the Channel for the benefit of various big wigs while your chaps dropped down, rose up, slid out and otherwise magically entered our lives. Impressive.
Not me personally obviously, what were you up too?

Now then, Captain Darling will pump you thoroughly in the debriefing room!
Captain Darling nearly got hit!

[Dangerous Dave]

I'd be interested on your views about them.
The US Navy SEALS are excellent at their job, they are derived from Navy Divers of WWII. They are a younger service than the SBS, the SBS was officially formed in WWII but was only made a public service in the late 50's. We have similar tactics, weapons, and the same methods of deployment hence why we take part in a lot integrated training sorties.

The SEALS are very professional, they have a similar reputation to us and as a lot of people do not know, we are not just an amphibious force!

Any more questions about methods or tactics of the SBS, anything?

[Miles]

A bit less technical, but how much would one of the members of Alpha or Bravo in your scenario typically earn?

Clearly these are very skilled and committed individuals with a seemingly high level of risk attached and would be interesting to see how they are rewarded.

I'm not saying anyone's in it for the money, but I'm interested in how it compares to civilian jobs.

[Rai86]

Im based in Poole, so often get to see you guys powering up and down the bay (:D;)), once had the pleasure to go out for a trip on the ORC that is based there. It uses jet drives so is dead manoverable! Was very impressed with how well the boat was handled.....scared the cr*p outta me !!!!:p

[Dangerous Dave]

A bit less technical, but how much would one of the members of Alpha or Bravo in your scenario typically earn?
Alpha and Bravo is one team, a CT team of eight men.


Csgt in the Royal Marines - £30,000 to 38,000
CSgt in the Special Boat Service (CTTL) - £45,000 to £55,000

...and no I will not tell you my income, but it isn't worth dying for!

[Dangerous Dave]

Im based in Poole, so often get to see you guys powering up and down the bay (:D;)), once had the pleasure to go out for a trip on the ORC that is based there. It uses jet drives so is dead manoverable! Was very impressed with how well the boat was handled.....scared the cr*p outta me !!!!:p
Aye, great fun....

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/10_03/williamboatDM1910_468x303.jpg

[Miles]

Alpha and Bravo is one team, a CT team of eight men.


Csgt in the Royal Marines - £30,000 to 38,000
CSgt in the Special Boat Service (CTTL) - £45,000 to £55,000

...and no I will not tell you my income, but it isn't worth dying for!

I knew that about the teams, but thought if I stated both it would provide a bit of extra info so you knew what I was on about.

Is that taxed as regular UK income? The biggest payment must be in fun and the feeling of 'belonging', for want of a better phrase.

I delibrately worded it that way so as not to ask what you earnt ;)

[Rai86]

Aye, great fun....

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/10_03/williamboatDM1910_468x303.jpg

Yep good times. It was a sneaky trip tho...which kinda made it even more exciting! :D

I work for the RNLI, we are currently developing a jet drive (FCB2) to add to our fleet. What is your view on them?

[Dangerous Dave]

Trafficking in arms is a bit strong there, you think the poor bugger who oils bits of the motor gets to look through manifest before they set off?
+ 1, the likely hood is that 90% of the crew have no idea what the cargo is.

Another ship taken over by pirates now, a Saudi oil tanker somewhere off Kenya. It's on the BBC news site.
We are aware, at this time it is not our call.

I do not want to talk about this too much, if authorised British Special Forces can operate in any waters with the permission of the territories government and the vessels government. Permission is not necessary if any hostages are British citizens, if the vessel is in British waters, or if actions are not liable to become public.
Thats my girl, x x x

[Dangerous Dave]

Is that taxed as regular UK income?.
Yeah... :(

The biggest payment must be in fun and the feeling of 'belonging', for want of a better phrase.
Yeah... :D

I work for the RNLI, we are currently developing a jet drive (FCB2) to add to our fleet. What is your view on them?
fast carriage Boats are good fro there job, not sure how a jet drive would be. I know the yanks faffed about a few years back with light jet craft, never heard of them since.

[Rai86]

Yeah... :(


Yeah... :D


fast carriage Boats are good fro there job, not sure how a jet drive would be. I know the yanks faffed about a few years back with light jet craft, never heard of them since.

The project has been put dack a couple of years now cus of the strain it puts on the crew. Basically it has a pretty extreme roll, and as it comes off the wave it tends to slam on the side of the hull. You ever had any bad experiences (due to the design) on the ORC's? ...only if you dont mind talking about it

[neio79]

Alpha and Bravo is one team, a CT team of eight men.


Csgt in the Royal Marines - £30,000 to 38,000
CSgt in the Special Boat Service (CTTL) - £45,000 to £55,000

...and no I will not tell you my income, but it isn't worth dying for!
Is that the same as all SF pay. I know once completed the SFC course i would get an extra 500 a month. :cool: I assume yours is simmilar?

[Rai86]

I know once completed the SFC course i would get an extra 500 a month

get on it matey! :-)

[Dangerous Dave]

You ever had any bad experiences (due to the design) on the ORC's? ...only if you dont mind talking about it
We have rolled a few, by mistake obviously, but overall they are very good.

Is that the same as all SF pay. I know once completed the SFC course i would get an extra 500 a month. :cool: I assume yours is simmilar?
During and passing the course yeah, 15 years SBS duty is a different thing!

[neio79]

get on it matey! :-)
Hopefully i will get posted to Hereford next year to 18SR. From there i will attempt the course. Might as well as i would be there.

I intend to go and try the Fan dance this year with some mates.:cool:

[Rai86]

Hopefully i will get posted to Hereford next year to 18SR. From there i will attempt the course. Might as well as i would be there.

I intend to go and try the Fan dance this year with some mates.:cool:

really? Good luck sweet :D

[Dangerous Dave]

Hopefully i will get posted to Hereford next year to 18SR. From there i will attempt the course. Might as well as i would be there.
Good luck

[Tiger 55]

Not me personally obviously, what were you up too?
The ship was providing transport and a viewing platform to show Top Level Johnny Foreigner precisely how fabulous Uk PLC was. Presumably with an eye to selling them some sexy kit. Defence Industry Days I think they called it. Which brings us back to the arms trade!

Personally I was a humble matelot having a crafty fag on the flight deck when some very serious looking blokes appeared out of a Sea King IV and vanished up the port and starboard waists before I could say "who the f*ck are these guys?"

Mind you, at least you could hear the helicopter coming. The guys who were delivered by the submarine might as well have been beamed aboard Star Trek style.

Happy days. :)

[Dangerous Dave]

Aye, that sounds like us. The point of this manoeuvre is to distract the target with visual contact, while the covert unit begin the assault with surprise. We do similar with a CH47 (Chinook), deploying a Rigid Raider at low level. Now if you can image the noise of a CH47 flat out at low level and purposely resonating it is one hell of a distraction and allows a secondary teaa to assualt via Commando HC4 (Seaking).

Boys with their toys as the miss' tells me...