View Full Version : Ducati Servicing costs
But aren't you two the strange org Aunt and Uncle?:smt073
Kidding8-[:p
Yeah, Ok, guilty as charged! :D
Does he rebuild SV engines?
Or know someone trustworthy that does?
Never seen anything but Dukes in his workshop, Dizz.
No idea about SV engines. Would have said JHS once, but not anymore. Steve Jordans maybe? Or Spannerman? Neither of which helps you though, too far south I guess.
yorkie_chris
28-02-10, 12:19 PM
heads de-coked and the squish maximised.
Why? You want less power? :smt116
a happy ending :D
Its quite amazing the dirt and discolouraition caused by use. Those valve heads....ewww! I wonder what my SV ones are like! My dad is doing top-end work at the moment....maybe I could ask him to clean my valve heads up...
...i think he'd have a few expletives to say though!
Roll on 2010 for pete and lissssssa!
Just spray some water down carbs. Steam cleans it for you piece of p*ss.
Another comment I'd like to make is that my cases were 500 quid, if you were daft enough to use brand new crankcases on an SV they would set you back over three times that. That is a truly scary price. To be fair Jeff had had the cases for some time, so they may be that sort of price, or more, now.
Lol. There's loads of SV cases about that you can get cheap when cranks have exploded :-P
Unless you and YC can make the April NW weekend, if that goes ahead, then it probably will be GMIII. Nothing much else seems to be in the pipelines on Org at the moment. .
We see :)
What's all this going steady b*ll*cks about? Rag the **** out of it, it's already run in.
P.S after tales I've heard I would not trust JHS to start my lawnmower.
dizzyblonde
28-02-10, 12:24 PM
What you saying about Orky Chris? :p
Nowt why?:confused:
Never seen anything but Dukes in his workshop, Dizz.
No idea about SV engines. Would have said JHS once, but not anymore. Steve Jordans maybe? Or Spannerman? Neither of which helps you though, too far south I guess.
Very far away.
Theres one reason I ask, every single stage of this rebuild has been photographically documented. Obviously you have taken them but the guy appears to very thorough, and does it for a living and has a good reputation. I am quite impressed with the workmanship. My original SV engine stays untouched in the cupboard under the stairs until I can find someone who has this experience and standard of repair and reputation for this kind of work.. I certainly do not put down or stand upon anyone who has been involved in rebuilding and repairing any of my bikes, but there may be a little money to have a job like this to be done professionally on my engine.
Theres nothing whatsoever wrong with the engine you gave me....by a long shot, but deep down I have always had the desire for my bike to be whole again. Engine and frame numbers matching etc. Seeing as though she is never going to be out of my possession, eventually I see this as a worthwhile investment, so has to be done professionally. Then Bikedolfs engine, can be put away, maybe for spares, or maybe for if another engine goes.
:thumbsup:
ThEGr33k
28-02-10, 12:36 PM
Why? You want less power? :smt116
Why would they lose power?
Nowt why?:confused:
I just thought he would be able to do it... :)
yorkie_chris
28-02-10, 12:41 PM
Why would they lose power?
Slower burn, increased heat transfer to walls, less compression.
I think what he meant to say was minimised squish clearance :smt116
ThEGr33k
28-02-10, 12:57 PM
Slower burn, increased heat transfer to walls, less compression.
I think what he meant to say was minimised squish clearance :smt116
Thats kinda how I read it, I kinda figured maximised squash means max compression.
I know im digressing a little, but I have seen (well read) about very high compression motors (there is an racing rsv apparently at 16.5:1) but they dont really seem to gain much from it. Is this normal?
yorkie_chris
28-02-10, 01:00 PM
Thats kinda how I read it, I kinda figured maximised squash means max compression.
I know im digressing a little, but I have seen (well read) about very high compression motors (there is an racing rsv apparently at 16.5:1) but they dont really seem to gain much from it. Is this normal?
http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/SPRING/propulsion/notes/fig5OttoEfficiencyVSCompressionRatio_web.jpg
ThEGr33k
28-02-10, 01:01 PM
That would explain it. Interesting!
-Ralph-
28-02-10, 01:08 PM
It's in Jeff's interests to do a very careful meticulous job and take photo's as he goes along.
He will know the story is being followed on the org and on Ducatisti, what better an advert for your services can you get than a blow by blow account with photo's and a reference from a happy customer, who needed a big job done?
Who are all the guys on Ducatisti going to go to next time they need something like that done. The main dealer who will charge them the same as the bike is worth, or Jeff?
ThEGr33k
28-02-10, 01:10 PM
It's in Jeff's interests to do a very careful meticulous job and take photo's as he goes along.
He will know the story is being followed on the org and on Ducatisti, what better an advert for your services can you get than a blow by blow account with photo's and a reference from a happy customer, who needed a big job done?
Who are all the guys on Ducatisti going to go to next time they need something like that done. The main dealer who will charge them the same as the bike is worth, or Jeff?
Indeed, smart fella. He will have to keep doing a fine job though all the same :D
dizzyblonde
28-02-10, 01:12 PM
I just thought he would be able to do it... :)
Chris is a mate, in fact hes like a little brother that needs a flick on the earhole every now and again:grin:. He has never let me down with what he ahs done for me, and I have always been pleased.
I'm sure what I say next he'll understand.
With something of this size, IMO you don't take it to a mate. as
A) if it goes wrong you fall out
B) with someone who is a professional in the field, they have to garantee their work if it goes wrong...you fall out and you don't have to feel bad about it
C) I don't want to put a good mate through that pressure.
I have a good friend who originally was to undertake the rebuild that Chris eventually did, he got knocked off a customers bike and has been out of trade for a few years. Hes a qualified MC mechanic, and always fixed my bikes pre accident....however if I was to ask him now, I reckon he'd turn down the job. I've seen him do engine rebuilds in the past, and build custom streetfighters, but not since the accident.
dizzyblonde
28-02-10, 01:16 PM
It's in Jeff's interests to do a very careful meticulous job and take photo's as he goes along.
He will know the story is being followed on the org and on Ducatisti, what better an advert for your services can you get than a blow by blow account with photo's and a reference from a happy customer, who needed a big job done?
Who are all the guys on Ducatisti going to go to next time they need something like that done. The main dealer who will charge them the same as the bike is worth, or Jeff?
Plus he is a qualified motorcycle/Ducati mechanic, he has a reputation to uphold. It is his profession, and his livelyhood that is at stake.
yorkie_chris
28-02-10, 01:16 PM
I would not do job because
a) you are letting heart rule head when it comes to a lump of metal and I will not take money off people for no reason. I am not a dealer lol
b) engine rebuilds are a pain in the rse
c) I want to buy the crankshaft off you when you see how much a rebuild is and change your mind and decide to part it out :-P
dizzyblonde
28-02-10, 01:20 PM
I would not do job because
a) you are letting heart rule head when it comes to a lump of metal and I will not take money off people for no reason. I am not a dealer lol
b) engine rebuilds are a pain in the rse
c) I want to buy the crankshaft off you when you see how much a rebuild is and change your mind and decide to part it out :-P
Told you he'd understand:cool:
I know its an expensive job, I ain't thick. No not heart at all, just odd principles. If it were a classic bike someone out there would do the same. Its done all the time
No its not for sale, pish off:smt116
petevtwin650
28-02-10, 01:33 PM
The problem with finding a pro to do the job of rebuilding an SV engine is one of supply and demand. When you can buy a second hand engine for under 400 quid why bother to rebuild. So able mechanics have to diversify. Probably meaning that they don't have all the special tools and perhaps don't know the little foibles to watch out for with each individual series of engine. Race engine builders might, but their remit is different. Power over longevity.
Whereas Jeff only does Dukes, and those engines are pretty much the same since 1994 and probably earlier. Plus Duke peeps often have their motors "refreshed", just because they can afford it, so he's sometimes elbow deep into an Italians internals :D
yorkie_chris
28-02-10, 01:52 PM
Race engine builders might, but their remit is different. Power over longevity.
Making a tuned engine reliable is where the skill is. For that I'd say the race tuner is more skilled at making a reliable engine.
If it is happy to be flat out, it will be happy bimbling.
You would be surprised, for the SV and GSXR series of motors there are very few special tools needed. Oil cooled GSXR engines are great to work on :)
I agree with what you are saying in principle though. I would not rebuild a stock motor unless I was going to tune it a bit.
P.S the kinky biatch
dizzyblonde
28-02-10, 01:55 PM
maybe I want a zoooped up motah ;-) Maybe I want it borred out to 899cc :-) or blueprinted with teeth....
I never said I just wanted a stock rebuild, just a matching bike again.
yorkie_chris
28-02-10, 01:58 PM
What do you want a tuned engine for you never open throttle on stock one :-P
petevtwin650
28-02-10, 01:59 PM
Making a tuned engine reliable is where the skill is. For that I'd say the race tuner is more skilled at making a reliable engine.
If it is happy to be flat out, it will be happy bimbling.
But an race engine builder is looking for a seasons reliability, which is different to one that'll survive 50k with minimum maintenance, IMO.
yorkie_chris
28-02-10, 02:03 PM
Cruising along the road is an easy life for an engine compared to going flat out. (Fair enough you can give it the requisite amount of rice on the road too, but not 100% of the time)
The same reliability techniques apply whichever. Whether you are building a lightweight superbike engine with 100bhp that will only last 2 weekends or building an 85bhp street engine that will do 50k.
Can't remember the guys name but he's on svrider, prost or something, his place builds 90+bhp engines and they hold together without grenading themselves. If you telling me he can't build an engine that would be good on the street you're on crack :)
petevtwin650
28-02-10, 02:23 PM
Cruising along the road is an easy life for an engine compared to going flat out. (Fair enough you can give it the requisite amount of rice on the road too, but not 100% of the time)
The same reliability techniques apply whichever. Whether you are building a lightweight superbike engine with 100bhp that will only last 2 weekends or building an 85bhp street engine that will do 50k.
Can't remember the guys name but he's on svrider, prost or something, his place builds 90+bhp engines and they hold together without grenading themselves. If you telling me he can't build an engine that would be good on the street you're on crack :)
They may hold together but maybe he has to change the oil every other week or he only does a 1000 miles a year on it, or it's so peaky as to be unusable for a novice rider.
Yeah, I suppose if you give a REB an engine with the strict instruction to keep it standardish and road useable, they would do a good if not better a job than an service mechanic as they'd have more relevant experience. I wonder if that's the problem with Ollies Trumpet.
dizzyblonde
28-02-10, 02:35 PM
they would do a good if not better a job than an service mechanic as they'd have more relevant experience. I wonder if that's the problem with Ollies Trumpet.
I have always wondered about these dealer mechanics that Oliie is putting up with, I'm with you on your statement there Pete. Its fine to be doing a run of the mill service etc but with the problems hes experiencing I'd have sent it to Triumph and never trusted the dealer
yorkie_chris
28-02-10, 02:36 PM
You'd have to go really mental with an SV engine to make it road un-useable. Only thing I can think of offhand that would be a bit OTT is using 41mm carbs. But at a grand a pair you would be a little careful with your choice of parts ;-)
But really who cares about novice riders, if you are looking at tuning the engine then you're probably past the stage of wobbling about and stalling at junctions.
Sure race engines get fettled a lot, but that's more because of the use they're subject to and for safety. At £100 a race you don't want to miss it for the sake of £10 worth of oil.
regarding the triumph folks it's not that hard to bolt an engine together. If they'd have done some monster b*ll*ck dropping a la JHS then the failure would be a lot more crunchy and oily than a defective starter solenoid ;-)
Maybe like this
http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/5112/custompiston.jpg
Problem with the trumpet was that the first rebuild wasn't done properly by said dealer mechanics who will go unnamed, resulting in the need for a second rebuild (which has a bit more punch than before, so something wasn't right).
Just goes to show that you can find good ones and bad ones wherever you look.
ThEGr33k
28-02-10, 06:35 PM
Problem with the trumpet was that the first rebuild wasn't done properly by said dealer mechanics who will go unnamed, resulting in the need for a second rebuild (which has a bit more punch than before, so something wasn't right).
Just goes to show that you can find good ones and bad ones wherever you look.
So what the timing was out enough to cause rough running but not enough for more piston on valve loving? Pretty shocking if this is the case...
Piston rings weren't correctly installed, so low compression and high oil consumption were the symptoms.
gettin2dizzy
28-02-10, 07:48 PM
Piston rings weren't correctly installed, so low compression and high oil consumption were the symptoms.
Which model?
ThEGr33k
28-02-10, 08:03 PM
Piston rings weren't correctly installed, so low compression and high oil consumption were the symptoms.
Oh right. How on earth can you fit piston rings wrong :confused:
2 dizzy, 1050 (low - in Olivers case it seems) speed triple...
yorkie_chris
28-02-10, 08:09 PM
Usual c*ckup is to put them in wrong groove, some have different rings top and bottom.
Or spring for oil control ring, if you overlap ends instead of butting them up then it causes problems.
Very basic stuff.
Olly, why wouldn't you name them? Their F up their problem.
ThEGr33k
01-03-10, 06:10 PM
Usual c*ckup is to put them in wrong groove, some have different rings top and bottom.
Or spring for oil control ring, if you overlap ends instead of butting them up then it causes problems.
Very basic stuff.
Olly, why wouldn't you name them? Their F up their problem.
Indeed, its a little harsh allowing others to under go the same problems... Ill guess Team Roberts. My dad isnt a big fan of theirs. :rolleyes:
Lots of people aren't a big fan of Team Roberts, but it wasn't them - Triumphworld in Chesterfield were the culprits. As it happens, local reputation was the reason I went to Chesterfield in the first place.
Team Roberts were the people who helped me out most recently, having a solenoid on the shelf to fit and meaning I didn't need to ride the train up to Pauls on Saturday - can't really complain about that, and they did call me back earlier on today to make sure everything was all right, so someone must have been on a customer services course there.
ThEGr33k
01-03-10, 06:38 PM
Lots of people aren't a big fan of Team Roberts, but it wasn't them - Triumphworld in Chesterfield were the culprits. As it happens, local reputation was the reason I went to Chesterfield in the first place.
Team Roberts were the people who helped me out most recently, having a solenoid on the shelf to fit and meaning I didn't need to ride the train up to Pauls on Saturday - can't really complain about that, and they did call me back earlier on today to make sure everything was all right, so someone must have been on a customer services course there.
Aye, I think you might be right ha ha.
petevtwin650
23-06-10, 08:51 PM
First breakdown last weekend. :(
Starter button packed up on Saturday, but I pulled it apart and fixed. Or so I thought.:smt120
Stopped working going to the EAR rideout Sunday, so I cut the wires and 'hotwired' it for the rest of the day.
Ordered a new switch on Monday and by Tuesday lunch time it had arrived. Good service, especially considering the bike is 9 years old. Did cost 63 quid though :smt088
Usual c*ckup is to put them in wrong groove, some have different rings top and bottom.
Or spring for oil control ring, if you overlap ends instead of butting them up then it causes problems.
.
Second rings are invariably tapered in some form or other, the smaller diameter is at the top so it tends to "ride over" the oil film on the way up and scrape it down on the way down, this profile and very often a twist feature means that it has a top and bottom, the top is invariably marked on the ring.
"Twist" is introduced by having chamfers or steps on the inner corners so that the neutral axis in bending is angled to the bore axis, in other words when you squeeze the ends together it tries to form a conical shape.
If you fit second rings upside down they will happily pump oil up into the combustion chamber.
The main purpose of twist is to encourage contact between the ring and groove to be at the edges, this can make the ring more stable and less prone to "flutter".
Top rings often have an asymmetrical section and profile too, so have a top side, though quite often modern very thin section rings can be symmetrical in profile. They usually have an offset barrel shape so the initial line contact is below the centreline of the ring.
These are some examples
http://www.grantpistonrings.com/images/pistonStyles_ring_types.png
yorkie_chris
23-06-10, 09:24 PM
:notworthy:
ThEGr33k
23-06-10, 10:42 PM
First breakdown last weekend. :(
Starter button packed up on Saturday, but I pulled it apart and fixed. Or so I thought.:smt120
Stopped working going to the EAR rideout Sunday, so I cut the wires and 'hotwired' it for the rest of the day.
Ordered a new switch on Monday and by Tuesday lunch time it had arrived. Good service, especially considering the bike is 9 years old. Did cost 63 quid though :smt088
Doh. Strange part to fail really though, and I don't really class that as a reliability problem, its just being unlucky... if you get what I mean?
Think I might have to clean mine, probably the same unit to be fair. :(
yorkie_chris
23-06-10, 10:44 PM
Have they got a diode in circuit for field in solenoid to dump to earth?
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