View Full Version : After swapping the loom out.
It now fails to start, now when I say fails, it started once. I did a test to see after I put the loom in and before I got her clothes back on to see if the bike would start, and she happily did. But now it seems that I have got her with all her body-work back on the bike will not start.
I popped the tank back up and checked over a few of the connections to ensure that nothing had been knocked off and it seems fine. Before it got way to dark I managed to get the rear spark plug out, and it seems that I have no spark, so that explains the fact that the turn over of the starter being fine but nothing else. I just can't seem to think what else on the circuit could cause the spark plugs to not work, as I have everything, lights, dash, even my heated grips.
The only other thing that I can think of is when I was cleaning up the wiring and removing the 'alarm' remains I left a little something in, the loom a number of broken connections I had to clean up. I thought it was to small to be a immobilizer as it was not much bigger then my little finger nail, but inline to the fuse. So it could be one but I thought it was some sort of noise/charge suppressor. So would it allow me to start the bike once and then cut it all the second time?
I'll have to pull it out when I get some more light but it means I'm stuffed to get to work now.
ahh, loom replacement
I did one yesterday on a TL, loom came out in about 10-15 mins and a new one took about 20mins. Worked first time and sorted out all the probs the bike had :)
That did not help did it.
check that the wires from the coils are good back to the ignition unit, start from there.
thefallenangel
16-11-08, 08:25 PM
no spark on rear and if it won't start then there's no spark on the front one too i guess?
If so then it's spare bits time or check for a voltage into and out of the coil and so forth up to the battery.
no spark on rear and if it won't start then there's no spark on the front one too i guess?
If so then it's spare bits time or check for a voltage into and out of the coil and so forth up to the battery.
reason i said check wires back to the ignition unit, is that most alarms cut the common wire from the coils to the ignition unit, so good to check that first
thefallenangel
16-11-08, 08:41 PM
reason i said check wires back to the ignition unit, is that most alarms cut the common wire from the coils to the ignition unit, so good to check that first
Thank you, i have never had a bike alarm so wouldn't know. I'm use to working on simple bikes like CG, KR1s nothing too complex.
Thank you, i have never had a bike alarm so wouldn't know. I'm use to working on simple bikes like CG, KR1s nothing too complex.
im sure the grinch will sort it all out
Ahh bikes that are not worth as much as an alarm that insurance companies want.
Most datatool alarms cut the common spark wire and starter relay button (on carbed bikes), on FI the most common thing is to cut the fuel pump and starter wires but somtimes people cut the coils too. All depends on how many relays the alarm has.
thefallenangel
16-11-08, 08:46 PM
Grinch has a carb'd bike iirc. So could well be or something has just given up the go with the loom too.
Grinch has a carb'd bike iirc. So could well be or something has just given up the go with the loom too.
Possably, the common factor would be the ignition unit, the SV will start will one spark. But i think it will be dodgy wiring. Hees got another SV so he can do swaps to confirm that.
It is bizzaire that I got it all to start once with not problems, first I thought it was the fact that I had started the bike with no tank on and drained the carbs. But as I managed to flatten the battery and the dead rear coil made me wonder about other things. Though the new loom did seem to fix all my electrical gremlins, but created a new one. It would be some much easier if I had a garage. Well will have to leave it till later in the week now but I have managed to get a Aprillia to ride in the mean time.
I did also notice that this loom didn't have a 2 pence sized loop to yellow wires on it, someone seemed to have removed it. This made my rad fan come on constant till I added it back in, all rather odd.
Checked the wiring diagram and that mentioned loop is the sensor for the carb heaters.
petevtwin650
17-11-08, 09:33 AM
Checked the wiring diagram and that mentioned loop is the sensor for the carb heaters.
Ah, that'll be me then. Took the sensor off to have the heaters working all the time when I thought the bad running might be down to carb icing.
Sorry 'bout that Grinch. Dunno why it should make the fan run all the time though. :confused:
Oh this is bugging me, I keep just thinking about it and it so bloody annoying. Bike starts, all is fine... then bike fails to start, have no bike.
Sorry 'bout that Grinch. Dunno why it should make the fan run all the time though. :confused:
I think its cus the connection for the carb heater-sensor and the temp-sensor on the rad is the same connector block and I got them mixed up.
After a few PM's with Pete I have e-mailed Meta to check the components and fitting incase there was something I missed, it was Meta M357T alarm.
After a few PM's with Pete I have e-mailed Meta to check the components and fitting incase there was something I missed, it was Meta M357T alarm.
What did you miss? Forgot to remove alarm
What did you miss? Forgot to remove alarm
Well the alarm was not connected, but cut off so I re-soldered all the joints back together and sealed the loom back up.
I did leave a small cylindrical like resistor in the loom though, as it looked like a noise or surge suppressor. It was no bigger then my thumb so didn't think it was a immobiliser, and only had a single in-line connection. But now I'm wondering so thought I should check with Meta.
Ah I think its a diode - Like the second one down -
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Dioden2.jpg
Would this stop the supply as this is not what I thought a diode would do.
Right, this diode should be fine as they are normally put in to stop power spikes from the indicators when the alarm flashes them. So it must be something I knocked when I put the bike together, so looks like I'm striping the bike apart.
454697819
17-11-08, 12:28 PM
have you checked the fuses and or the fuse that will have been wired into the alarm? I cannot recall wether they sit in the alram loom or on the bike loom...
I un-wired the alarms fuse.
But good point, I didn't check all the fuses so I could have blown one, I had all the dash lights.
454697819
17-11-08, 02:25 PM
there are the main 20amp fuse down by one of the side panels near the seat, i cannot recall what side of the bike it is?
it could also be the starter switch? I have done big jobs before only to have something else fail (side stand switch) half way though, un known untill I had ripped the bike to pieces again.
You talking about the one in the starter relay... the 30 amp ones, there fine else I would have no dash lights.
You talking about the one in the starter relay... the 30 amp ones, there fine else I would have no dash lights.
yup thats true
have you rocked the bike back and forwards in gear and then try to start again, to see if the starter is dodgy?
454697819
17-11-08, 07:49 PM
i seee..
been a few yrs since I had me one of them fangled SV things...
yup thats true
have you rocked the bike back and forwards in gear and then try to start again, to see if the starter is dodgy?
Even though the starter is turning over?
Even though the starter is turning over?
Missed that bit in the original post.
I think its just going to be strip it down and have a look again...
One thing though... from the connections to the carb heater there are 2 more connections below there. Just single lines. I think one is the oil pressure switch, and the other I can't remember or be sure if I have them round the right way... Anyone able to advise?
I think its just going to be strip it down and have a look again...
One thing though... from the connections to the carb heater there are 2 more connections below there. Just single lines. I think one is the oil pressure switch, and the other I can't remember or be sure if I have them round the right way... Anyone able to advise?
check if one of the connections are for the timing pickup sensor
joshmac
18-11-08, 08:07 PM
Definitely not the immobiliser from the Meta alarm... Wouldn't be able to turn it over if it was.
I've got a loose connection somewhere on my bike, which sometimes causes erratic backfires and then not being able to start it. Try wiggling the wires going into the ignition unit under the pillion seat, that seems to fix it for me. That might give you an idea to which is loose (if indeed it is a loose connection).
Have you got a spark at the front?
I need to take the front apart to check that so never did, it was easier to check the back. Though if I had a spark at the front it should run, as I've had it running on one cylinder before.
thefallenangel
18-11-08, 10:19 PM
i did say that. Sorry.
My advice would be to check that by disturbing the HT leads, coils etc. . that' you haven't damaged anything.
Oh well I'll find out Friday... I'll have time to look at it then.
After scratching my head a bit and doing a few own tests I got my Manual out and starting working though the electrical test. Kill switch, clutch switch, coil resistance and voltage checks, which they failed. So checked the signal generation and I get less then a volt, so I guess I must have blown it some how when I was fiddling sorting out the carb and rad temp sensors.
Anyone got one spare? I could pull it off the other SV but I'd rather avoid doing it twice.
After a busy weekend swearing at the amount of overtime I had and it caining all the 'day-light' so I couldn't get the bike worked on, I managed to get a hour window on bike.
So rather rushed I managed to swap the magneto and signal generator, fired the bike up, and once again still dead. But ran out of light to see if there was anything I missed.
you checked the earths on the coils and the conecters there?
I think I did, I have a whole load of checks with the Multi-meter to do when I get some free time.
I think I did, I have a whole load of checks with the Multi-meter to do when I get some free time.
dont i know that fealling pmsl i have a load of stuff to do on the bike no time to do it lol
Its a runner!
Traced the second fault to a intermitent problem with the coil live from the starter button, look out for the orange wire with a white tracer.
result mate and has it fixed all your problems??
Looks like it, my lights don't flash when I indicate or get dim when I brake. I had heated grips working for the first time in ages this morning and they didn't turn off for no reason. If the bike goes all this week without going flat then all my problems are sorted.
Just the intermittent stiff gear selection to fix now.
chris8886
08-12-08, 09:50 PM
Just the intermittent stiff gear selection to fix now.
me got that quite bad at times too!! if you could be so kind to let me know if you find a fix dan i'd be rather grateful.
Take your clutch cover off, you should be able to do this with out loosing any oil so while its on the side stand and check for notches in the basket. I fixed mine for a bit with a 'filled' down worn one, basically I swapped a 60k basket for 40k basket I had bodged until I could get a newer one.
I know have a basket that's done about 25k, so should be lovely, just need to pick up the replacement washer before I swap it over.
chris8886
08-12-08, 10:36 PM
Take your clutch cover off, you should be able to do this with out loosing any oil so while its on the side stand and check for notches in the basket. I fixed mine for a bit with a 'filled' down worn one, basically I swapped a 60k basket for 40k basket I had bodged until I could get a newer one.
I know have a basket that's done about 25k, so should be lovely, just need to pick up the replacement washer before I swap it over.
dan you know me better than this, i have no idea what you're on about! :(
joshmac
08-12-08, 10:38 PM
dan you know me better than this, i have no idea what you're on about! :(
Probably something to do with school uniforms ;)
Oops wrong thread :p
dan you know me better than this, i have no idea what you're on about! :(
I'd take it off in Soho, but the o-rings can be trouble...
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