xp vs vista

[stewie]

Just before I went away recently I decided to spring clean my pc, so uninstalled a few old programs that came bundled with it, anywhoo I managed to get rid of something that souldnt have gone so Ive run the system restore a few times and got the computer running normally again...except I cant get online for more than about a minute before I get a screen up saying 'internet explorer cant display this webpage', so I was thinking of reinstalling XP again to put it right but was wondering if Vista is actually as bad as peeps say and if not should I just upgrade to that instead. The system is a 3 yr old Dell with a pentium 4 processor and a gig of ram, waddya think ?

[plowsie]

Vista isn't as bad as people actually say. But you have to have the patience to work with it. The thing they have done is try and make Vista easy to use for noobs.

I've done the same and have had to re-install a program with the CD. Bloody annoying I tell you, especially when its my work computer and is quite an important program.

[fizzwheel]

We've been running Vista at home on Liz's laptop for a year or so now. Its been fine, no problems, no weirdness. Cant find any fault at all with it. But...

We only use it for browsing the web and, typing the odd document and uploading photos from our digital camera's

Chap at work has been running it on his desktop for a while again with no problems.

Both cases the underlying hardware is a decent spec with plenty of ram.. If your PC is low on CPU and ram then I'd stick with XP TBH.

[startrek.steve]

Vista isn't as bad as people actually say.

Lets see...
17 years working in IT, starting with Windows 3.0, OS2 servers, NetLM, Server 2003 & 2007, XP, NT4.0.....


YES IT IS!!!!
Big Fat Bloated & Slow,Slow,Slow!!!
the word bargepole springs to mind!!!

[plowsie]

Lets see...
17 years working in IT, starting with Windows 3.0, OS2 servers, NetLM, Server 2003 & 2007, XP, NT4.0.....


YES IT IS!!!!
Big Fat Bloated & Slow,Slow,Slow!!!
the word bargepole springs to mind!!!
Like i say, have the patience to work with it. It is slow, when you abuse it. Yeah okay so it goes slower quicker than other systems used to. Surely just upgrade your RAM? Its cheap nowadays. Or am i talking shyte?

[the_lone_wolf]

YES IT IS!!!!
Big Fat Bloated & Slow,Slow,Slow!!!
the word bargepole springs to mind!!!

the word "bandwagon" springs to mind...:rolleyes:


Provided you have the hardware Vista is plenty fast enough, throw 4GB of RAM at it and it'll whiz around like it's on ice wearing ice cubes on it's feet.

However, on a computer with 1GB of RAM i'd stick with XP, not as resource intensive and that amount of RAM is just right for smooth XP use, although 2GB would be better...

[stewie]

We've been running Vista at home on Liz's laptop for a year or so now. Its been fine, no problems, no weirdness. Cant find any fault at all with it. But...

We only use it for browsing the web and, typing the odd document and uploading photos from our digital camera's

Chap at work has been running it on his desktop for a while again with no problems.

Both cases the underlying hardware is a decent spec with plenty of ram.. If your PC is low on CPU and ram then I'd stick with XP TBH.

tbh I would rather stick XP, problem is Dell didnt supply a disc with
the pc, so cant actually load it up from a disc, I may just keep using the kids laptop in the short term.Ta guys. :)

[Kinvig]

I find it to be too slow to boot up - I've got a Dual Core Processor & 2 gig Ram & it takes just shy of 5 mins to boot up.

The biggest pain I find with Vista is that I'm using a laptop with a touch pad (instead of a mouse). I would like to disable the touchpad because I keep touching it with the palm of my hand & it make the cursor move to some random part of the screen.

I've been all over the control panel & have yet to find a disable touch pad in Vista button.....so here I am with a bit of cardboard carefully cut out of some special k packaging.....

[stewie]

I find it to be too slow to boot up - I've got a Dual Core Processor & 2 gig Ram & it takes just shy of 5 mins to boot up.

The biggest pain I find with Vista is that I'm using a laptop with a touch pad (instead of a mouse). I would like to disable the touchpad because I keep touching it with the palm of my hand & it make the cursor move to some random part of the screen.

I've been all over the control panel & have yet to find a disable touch pad in Vista button.....so here I am with a bit of cardboard carefully cut out of some special k packaging.....
Ha ! thats happening to me all the time on the kids laptop, its driving me mad :mad:.

[SoulKiss]

Just before I went away recently I decided to spring clean my pc, so uninstalled a few old programs that came bundled with it, anywhoo I managed to get rid of something that souldnt have gone so Ive run the system restore a few times and got the computer running normally again...except I cant get online for more than about a minute before I get a screen up saying 'internet explorer cant display this webpage', so I was thinking of reinstalling XP again to put it right but was wondering if Vista is actually as bad as peeps say and if not should I just upgrade to that instead. The system is a 3 yr old Dell with a pentium 4 processor and a gig of ram, waddya think ?

Stop using Internet Explorer and install Firefox?

Also you SHOULD be able to create a recovery disk from tools supplied by Dell if they didnt supply media.

Or you could contact Dell and ask for the OS installation media - I believe they are obliged to provide this if requested at a reasonable cost.

[the_lone_wolf]

I find it to be too slow to boot up - I've got a Dual Core Processor & 2 gig Ram & it takes just shy of 5 mins to boot up.

Startup time has little to do with your processor or memory, buy a raptor 10k rpm disk and disable all the crap in your startup processes if you want it to boot quickly

I have a Raptor HDD, 2.8GHz Core2Quad and 4GB RAM on a well cleaned PC and it takes about 20-30 seconds from the windows logo and progress bar appearing to being ableto open email and internet on the desktop

[the_lone_wolf]

oh and back to the installation question:

"aquire" a windows installation disc that's the same version as yours (Home, OEM, Professional etc) and use the product key on the sticker on your case, did this with a sony lapop that had broken recovery disks

[fizzwheel]

Stop using Internet Explorer and install Firefox?

I did that a month or so ago IE7 stopped working properly after installing some windows updates... Firefox is much much faster than IE7 is

[madness]

I think if you just want to switch on and use the PC then Vista is fine. But if you like messing about and changing things then XP is probably better. I use Vista and don't really have any issues. It does require a bit disc space though.

[the_lone_wolf]

I think if you just want to switch on and use the PC then Vista is fine. But if you like messing about and changing things then XP is probably better. I use Vista and don't really have any issues. It does require a bit disc space though.

you can still change things in vista, you just need to know where to look for them, but tbh i've found there's less to change in the first place as there's fewer bad design choices

[dizzyblonde]

I got my laptop with Vista, it was a bit naff at first because no USB stuff would work with it, not that i use it for anything much anyway. After a few months I did the usual update thing and I tried updating some drivers and bish bash bosh the USB stuff and camera were compatible. PATIENCE was all that was required.

Only thing is now, I'm having difficulty with it locking up on the internet and forgetting what its doing(a bit blonde like me) I don't think its necessarily Vista. Its had a couple of blue screens(which vista is not supposed to do) and it goes on about internal kernel summat or another....I'm thinkin its got too many things going on at once and its frying its tiny little mind
Theres way too many processes going on in task manager when I look, but I am no good with the technical stuff and don't know what I should be doing with it. The damn thing regularly has disc cleanups done, browsing history deleted, and the odd defrag.....but thats where my knowledge ends!

[the_lone_wolf]

Its had a couple of blue screens(which vista is not supposed to do) and it goes on about internal kernel summat or another....I'm thinkin its got too many things going on at once and its frying its tiny little mind

the kernal is the part of the OS that allows the hardware and the software of the computer to communicate, if it's having problems and BSOD it could well be a driver issue, if you can get the stop error code (long list of numbers like: 0x00000000 0x00000000 0x00000000 0x00000000 0x00000000) then you can look it up and see which driver or device is causing the problem, you may need to disable automatic rebooting on stop errors though and i can't remember how to do it offhand

[slark01]

Never had a problem with vista, but it does boot up slowly and finding where to disable things is not simple at times (as I found out recently when trying to disable the narrator ).
A big downside is some programs that I use on XP will not work on Vista :-(

[the_lone_wolf]

A big downside is some programs that I use on XP will not work on Vista :-(

have you tried running them in compatability mode? or do they flat out not install

i've only heard of a few of the more obscure or specialist programs not working on vista, normally it's finding drivers for old hardware that causes problems

[dizzyblonde]

the kernal is the part of the OS that allows the hardware and the software of the computer to communicate, if it's having problems and BSOD it could well be a driver issue, if you can get the stop error code (long list of numbers like: 0x00000000 0x00000000 0x00000000 0x00000000 0x00000000) then you can look it up and see which driver or device is causing the problem, you may need to disable automatic rebooting on stop errors though and i can't remember how to do it offhand

I would try to get the error code, but it flashes for a second and ..poof its gone. It hasn't done it for a week or so now. Its just the s-l-o-w internet and freezing it does thats annoying.Its like Slark says its bloody hard to find places on Vista, that would be the one downside to it. Like I said it may help if I turned off some of the processes...you don't want to know how many its running right now! But I wouldn't have a clue which does what, and would probably stop it working all together :-(

[the_lone_wolf]

I would try to get the error code, but it flashes for a second and ..poof its gone.

http://www.watchingthenet.com/disable-automatic-restarts-with-blue-screen-of-death.html

tbh so long as the running processes aren't consuming lots of CPU or memory you should be ok, on a fresh install mine was running about 30 or so, they're normal system processes, but if they're using up a lot of RAM it'll slow your computer to a crawl

disabling the process that calls upon the driver/hardware problem may stop the BSOD, but the driver/hardware problem will still be there waiting to crash the next time

[dizzyblonde]

Try 76 processes....and not knowing a thing about computers...YC had a peek the other night, but even he was baffled to which ones would need switching off. I'm almost thinking of having a word with the other halfs brother who we don't speak to, as hes a bit of a nerd with computers

[dizzyblonde]

http://www.watchingthenet.com/disable-automatic-restarts-with-blue-screen-of-death.html




Ta for that, just done it

[the_lone_wolf]

Try 76 processes....
ye gods!;)

try running hijackthis:

http://majorgeeks.com/download3155.html

check the option to save a log file then copy the contents here and i'll have a look, 76 sounds like a lot:D

[jambo]

Is it just me who remembers everyone saying "Don't upgrade to XP! I's bloated, unstable and all the menus have been mangled"?

You like what you're used to, give it a couple of years everyone will be used to it.

Jambo

[Baph]

Like i say, have the patience to work with it. It is slow, when you abuse it. Yeah okay so it goes slower quicker than other systems used to. Surely just upgrade your RAM? Its cheap nowadays. Or am i talking shyte?
I've used Vista with 2GB RAM. Works fine, and doesn't take long to boot (that's the marvel of "Delayed Start" on core services).

I find it to be too slow to boot up - I've got a Dual Core Processor & 2 gig Ram & it takes just shy of 5 mins to boot up.

You need to sort your startup options then.


The biggest pain I find with Vista is that I'm using a laptop with a touch pad (instead of a mouse). I would like to disable the touchpad because I keep touching it with the palm of my hand & it make the cursor move to some random part of the screen.

Update to the latest drivers supplied by the manufacturer. My Toshiba Satellite has the option to disable the touchpad when you use a normal mouse.

Or you could contact Dell and ask for the OS installation media - I believe they are obliged to provide this if requested at a reasonable cost.
Yup, very true, though I just resorted to torrents. :)


"aquire" a windows installation disc that's the same version as yours (Home, OEM, Professional etc) and use the product key on the sticker on your case, did this with a sony lapop that had broken recovery disks
Yup, I did that with Vista.

Is it just me who remembers everyone saying "Don't upgrade to XP! I's bloated, unstable and all the menus have been mangled"?

You like what you're used to, give it a couple of years everyone will be used to it.
+1.

My Toshiba started with Home Premium. Since then it's been upgraded to Ultimate - which has been paid for (not by me, but paid for non-the-less).

This laptop boots multiple OS' (a couple of flavours of Linux, and FreeBSD)... I find myself using Vista for most things, unless I need to test some code under a different OS.

[Paws]

Ive found that vista has settled down on abit on my laptop, just having to do alot of up dates now and again but its better than it used to be!

[Stig]

I have Vista on my laptop. Works fine.

[DanAbnormal]

I use Vista for games, browsing and 3d/2d artwork. No problems here. It's quicker and easier to use (finally). To begin with it was annoying due to lack of drivers for certain hardware/software but now it's great.

[ThEGr33k]

Lets see...
17 years working in IT, starting with Windows 3.0, OS2 servers, NetLM, Server 2003 & 2007, XP, NT4.0.....


YES IT IS!!!!
Big Fat Bloated & Slow,Slow,Slow!!!
the word bargepole springs to mind!!!


:winner:

Vista is XP but it runs slower. Why would you want it? Its like upgrading from a Full powered SV to a limited SV to put it in lemans terms :cool:

[Baph]

Vista is XP but it runs slower. Why would you want it? Its like upgrading from a Full powered SV to a limited SV to put it in lemans terms :cool:
Funny that. Sit my Desktop PC next to my laptop... Boot the Desktop into XP, and the laptop into Vista...

The laptop out performs the desktop in every test. Therefore, comparatively, Vista is faster.

Granted, the laptop has a better processor, but Vista is a newer OS with more features.

EDIT: It's a bit like comparing PicoBSD with FreeBSD. Both are BSD under the surface, but Pico boots faster, and has a far less execution time (assuming same hardware here). FreeBSD takes longer to do what it does, but it can do more than PicoBSD can.

[ThEGr33k]

Funny that. Sit my Desktop PC next to my laptop... Boot the Desktop into XP, and the laptop into Vista...

The laptop out performs the desktop in every test. Therefore, comparatively, Vista is faster.

Granted, the laptop has a better processor, but Vista is a newer OS with more features.

EDIT: It's a bit like comparing PicoBSD with FreeBSD. Both are BSD under the surface, but Pico boots faster, and has a far less execution time (assuming same hardware here). FreeBSD takes longer to do what it does, but it can do more than PicoBSD can.


What features does Vista have that XP doesnt then? (real features, not bling)...

A higher spec Comp will win out! Thats obvious. :rolleyes: Im guessing my Computer would beat yours in every test running XP... But again thats obvious. :smt003

[SoulKiss]

What features does Vista have that XP doesnt then? (real features, not bling)...

A higher spec Comp will win out! Thats obvious. :rolleyes: Im guessing my Computer would beat yours in every test running XP... But again thats obvious. :smt003

Lots of nice little ones actually

One for example is that you can click on any element in the path to the folder you are in and it will jump straight to it.

Searching is another - there is a search bar built into the Start Menu.

DX10 is the other one.....

[the_lone_wolf]

Vista is XP but it runs slower.

neee naaaw neee naaaw...


that's the hyperbole police come to take you away;)

[ThEGr33k]

neee naaaw neee naaaw...


that's the hyperbole police come to take you away;)


I ment in the way that they do the same things... I know Vista runs different, but who but us geeks needs to know that? :p

[ThEGr33k]

Lots of nice little ones actually

One for example is that you can click on any element in the path to the folder you are in and it will jump straight to it.

Searching is another - there is a search bar built into the Start Menu.

DX10 is the other one.....


DX10... Pah. Waste of time.

[the_lone_wolf]

I ment in the way that they do the same things...

in the way that they do the same things as Win 95, 98 etc

there are fundamental changes to the OS kernel that make vista different to XP, it isn't simply XP with a fancy GUI, and as a geek you should know these sorts of things;)

[ThEGr33k]

in the way that they do the same things as Win 95, 98 etc

there are fundamental changes to the OS kernel that make vista different to XP, it isn't simply XP with a fancy GUI, and as a geek you should know these sorts of things;)


I do... Sigh. Its the interface I was refering to, what you see and interact with. But if you want to pick bones over it then feel free. At the end of the day they do the same thing no matter how they get there. :rolleyes:


EDIT BTW love the sig ;)

[DanAbnormal]

What features does Vista have that XP doesnt then? (real features, not bling)...

A higher spec Comp will win out! Thats obvious. :rolleyes: Im guessing my Computer would beat yours in every test running XP... But again thats obvious. :smt003

So what spec you got then Greek?

[Baph]

I do... Sigh. Its the interface I was refering to, what you see and interact with. But if you want to pick bones over it then feel free. At the end of the day they do the same thing no matter how they get there. :rolleyes:

In that case, you may as well argue that XP/Vista does the same thing as Ubuntu, or FreeBSD, or Mac OSX.

They all allow you to point & click a mouse. They all allow you to surf the net (subject to connection etc). They all allow you to write emails.

Come to think of it, in that respect, they do the same thing as my NavMan.

[zsv650]

i had xp on my old computer and the new ones vista and for me not being a massive expert on them i preferred xp for it's tendancy to be compatible with more stuff and it seems to be better laid out not that vistas bad it just seems a bit more hard to use and cluttered tbh.

[yorkie_chris]

Lots of nice little ones actually

One for example is that you can click on any element in the path to the folder you are in and it will jump straight to it.

Searching is another - there is a search bar built into the Start Menu.

DX10 is the other one.....

So a couple of little shortcuts and that's supposed to be worth buying it for?

DX10, is there anything that actually needs it at the moment?


IMO it's bad news. Like XP was when it was new it needs leaving alone, and only using when you've got loadsa money to spend on an atomic computer.

[ThEGr33k]

I got Q6600 running at 3.6GHz, 2GB Corsair XMS 2 running at 800MHz, Asus P5K motherboard and a 9800GTX GFX card...

Other comp is E6600 also at 3.6GHz with 2GB Corsair XMS 2 at 800MHz on a Asus P5W DH Deluxe and Crossfire 3870's.

No doubt you latest G33k creation Dan is a monster that is over kill on every game except Crysis... If I could be bothered wasting money on a 280 or a 4870x2 then I could too. Not much point though imo :(

Aye Baph that is true But XP still plays the games the best :p If Mac OSX supported some of the modern games id be very interested in using it... Alas it does not :(

[the_lone_wolf]

So a couple of little shortcuts and that's supposed to be worth buying it for?

yes, because quite obviously thats the only difference between xp and vista, in fact you've stumbled across microsoft's evil plan to re-brand xp and sell it to their unsuspecting customers, it's a miracle that nobody except you have noticed this...

:rolleyes::smt003

as for an atomic pc, apart from giving you radiation sickness you don't need anything of the sort to run vista, however you will actually have to spend some money and upgrade beyond the hardware going for free in the back of the local rag if you want to run it well

you can quite easily build a vista machine using parts of your original computer and some well selected components, or spend a couple hundred on an off the shelf box, which is probably the better option for someone who doesn't know the first thing about them...

[ThEGr33k]

OK Lone wolf... since you seem to be a Vista liker why should I... "move" to Vista? :p

[Baph]

OK Lone wolf... since you seem to be a Vista liker why should I... "move" to Vista? :p
Sorry to but in...

But you should move because you want to, and not before then.

If you're happy with what you've got, why bother upgrading? I only got Vista because it came free with the laptop.

[ThEGr33k]

Sorry to but in...

But you should move because you want to, and not before then.

If you're happy with what you've got, why bother upgrading? I only got Vista because it came free with the laptop.


Well fair enough... Good point well made. :)

[fizzwheel]

If you're happy with what you've got, why bother upgrading? I only got Vista because it came free with the laptop.

This is my thoughts on the subject. Liz's laptop only has Vista on it because thats what it came with and I'm not paying for XP to install on it because I am tight. Mind you I could get XP from work and load on it on that way. But we've started to find that the latest models of laptop XP driver support isnt available, So its Vista or nothing...

[the_lone_wolf]

why should I... "move" to Vista? :p

if the features are right for you, if they're not then don't:p

unless you want to run your next OS on something with the processing power of a microwave oven or if you're not completely hopeless at altering your habits slightly to get around the changes in the interface there's no reason not to go for it when you upgrade though, the problems that were around during early release and the beta versions are now non-existent so put on your man boots and step outside the house for a bit, hell, you might find out what we're all enjoying so much;)

[-Ralph-]

As a Microsoft Gold Partner I've been on Vista for a good while now. We are supposed to upgrade as soon as a new OS is released.

It was a pain in the ****, to the point that I went back to XP for a while, but since service pack 1 came out things are much improved and now I go back to an XP machine and get frustrated with it.

There are still annoying bits about Vista. User account control which asks you if you're sure 50 squillion times before you configure anything is probably the most hated, that can be turned off without the majority of users ever noticing any ill effect (though it is not without consequence before I get flamed!).

Other things like calculating how long a file copy will take before it actually starts the copy operation hacks me off sometimes too, but then people always moan about previous O/S giving nonsense time estimates, so Microsoft can't win. I'd prefer to be given a nonsense estimation, but know the task was already underway though.

The majority of software vendors now have a release with Vista compatibility, so thats no longer the issue it used to be.

The only reason not to upgrade is if you have spent money or rely upon software that is not compatible (Vista upgrade advisor from Microsoft website will usually tell you) and you don't want to buy an updated version, or an update is not yet available.

My laptop runs quicker under Vista than under XP, but it is a Core 2 Duo with 2GB RAM. If you have less than round about a Pentium 4 2.8 with 2GB RAM, don't bother upgrading (RAM is dirt cheap and the system scanner tool at www.crucial.com (http://www.crucial.com) will tell you in most cases what have, what you need, and how much your computer can take).

[the_lone_wolf]

As a Microsoft Gold Partner I've been on Vista for a good while now. We are supposed to upgrade as soon as a new OS is released.

It was a pain in the ****, to the point that I went back to XP for a while, but since service pack 1 came out things are much improved and now I go back to an XP machine and get frustrated with it.

There are still annoying bits about Vista. User account control which asks you if you're sure 50 squillion times before you configure anything is probably the most hated, that can be turned off without the majority of users ever noticing any ill effect (though it is not without consequence before I get flamed!).

Other things like calculating how long a file copy will take before it actually starts the copy operation hacks me off sometimes too, but then people always moan about previous O/S giving nonsense time estimates, so Microsoft can't win. I'd prefer to be given a nonsense estimation, but know the task was already underway though.

The majority of software vendors now have a release with Vista compatibility, so thats no longer the issue it used to be.

The only reason not to upgrade is if you have spent money or rely upon software that is not compatible (Vista upgrade advisor from Microsoft website will usually tell you) and you don't want to buy an updated version, or an update is not yet available.

My laptop runs quicker under Vista than under XP, but it is a Core 2 Duo with 2GB RAM. If you have less than round about a Pentium 4 2.8 with 2GB RAM, don't bother upgrading (RAM is dirt cheap and the system scanner tool at www.crucial.com (http://www.crucial.com) will tell you in most cases what have, what you need, and how much your computer can take).

wise words...

i copied all my stuff over from full 200 and 320GB IDE drives to the new 1TB SATA drive under vista to get rid of the ribbon cables in my case and the thing only took ~10 seconds to calculate the copy time, UAC is something that i can live with until i'm having hardware problems and need to constantly ask permission to get into computer management etc when i start to lose it, but then the option is always there to switch it off. as you say, microsoft will never please 100% of people 100% of the time

[wyntrblue]

as i have upgraded my hardware i have upgraded my os, i have a few niggles with vista but nothing that wasnt also a niggle in xp, dx10 makes things very very pretty but isnt really a selling point on its own. I think the wisest thing i have ever heard anyone say on the subject was...

"there is no good reason to upgrade to vista, but there is also no good reason not to either"

[dizzyblonde]

Wolf i have been fiddling and have reduced my processes from 76 to 48. Gone through the virus and spyware stuff with a fine toothcomb, and weeded the start up programmes. Hope fully I will see a difference!

[the_lone_wolf]

Wolf i have been fiddling and have reduced my processes from 76 to 48. Gone through the virus and spyware stuff with a fine toothcomb, and weeded the start up programmes. Hope fully I will see a difference!

provided you don't disable anything important it can't hurt, you could also try defragmenting your hard disk while you're at it

[dizzyblonde]

Defraggled it last night, but will be doing it again now I've disabled a few things. The ones I've disabled are ones that don't need to be running all the time especially on start up, I actually found a menu to do this when delving in windows defender somehow, but hey its vista...lol
I also removed some dodgy looking files that I double checked in google to find they were naughty...and hey presto, the process list shrank!

[yorkie_chris]

msconfig utility to prune the startup programs.

[stewie]

Well after numerous abortive system resores I think I have sorted out my problem, I think IE 7 might have been partly responsible, Ive just started using safari and it sems ok, anyone got any experience of using it ?

[stewie]

Help :( got the pc running again but I can only access the internet for about 2 mins after start up before I get a screen up saying 'internet explorer cannot access the webpage' having to use the kids laptop at the min and uts dead slow and need to use it as well, spoke to sky about the broadband and they have confirmed its not there system at fault, it seems to time out after a couple of mins any ideas ? if I cant sort it I will have to format it I suppose :(