View Full Version : VAT Cut
Well, I seem to have this knack at predicting things!
Our IT chap at work is writing me an accounting package for invoices that we send out. A month ago I asked him to enable it for me to change the VAT rate, being a young 21 he looked at me gone out! VAT doesn't change he said.
We then had a long conversation about when the VAT rate last changed, and I ended by saying, 'believe me, there will be a VAT change soon'.
Looks like VAT is going to be lowered to 15%
The last time I said something, it was when redundancies were predicted, and I joked that all the accounts would move to Wales. One week later we were told that all the accounts was going to Cardiff.
I am now spooked!
wyrdness
23-11-08, 12:29 PM
A VAT cut would be very welcome. As I don't have a mortgage, I haven't benefited from the interest rate cuts, but I'd certainly benefit from a cut in VAT.
A vat rate cut will not be welcome in my eyes, Why? well they will cut it for a few months then when it goes back up it will go up more than it was cut and that will last forever. believe me we will lose out in the long run.
Sid Squid
23-11-08, 01:17 PM
Would you? Although a nice cut in prices seems welcome, I can't help feel adverts with lower prices on is a way to tell you how Gordon has it all under control so you should vote for him next time. Cheap vote buying for them and:
How will the Govt make up the money they won't be getting from VAT? Oohh... another tax rise elsewhere - just my wild guess of course.
Anything headline like this is deeply suspicious - I'm unimpressed & you shouldn't be fooled.
kwak zzr
23-11-08, 01:17 PM
any help at this moment in time would be welcome by me.
kwak zzr
23-11-08, 01:18 PM
sid's right tho, they'll bang it on somewhere else, the govt dont loose.
i always thought that the vat raised in the country went to europe anyway.. that's why its never been raised...
Lets not forget there are 3 different VAT rates. 17.5%, 5% and zero (of course, there's exempt as well, but thats not the point).
Some figures for you...
How much will products reduce in price?
Petrol
Current price: 94p/litre (average UK price, Thursday November 20)
New price: 92p/litre
Saving: 2p/litre
McVities' milk chocolate digestives 400g
Current price: £1.29
New price: £1.26
Saving: 3p
Pint of bitter
Current price: £2.80 (average UK)
New price: £2.74
Saving: 6p
Bottle of wine
Current price: £6.99
New price: £6.84
Saving: 15p
Nintendo Wii games console
Current price: £179.99
New price: £176.16
Saving: £3.83
Marks and Spencer men's shoe
Current price: £39.50
New price: £38.66
Saving: 84p
Marks and Spencer black ladies' macintosh
Current price: £80.00
New price: £78.30
Saving: £1.70
Vauxhall Astra car
Current price: £11,955 (list price, basic model)
New price: £11,700
Saving: £255
Ikea "Billy" bookcase 106cm x 80cm in birch effect
Current price: £37.00
New price: £36.21
Saving: 79p
iPod Nano 16GB
Current price: £149.00
New price: £145.83
Saving: £3.17Basically, you'll only benefit if you buy a lot of high priced luxury items. Otherwise, it's nothing to write home about. 2p/ltr from petrol though.
EDIT: See this quote as well.
The move costs £12.5bn and the idea would be to get retail sales moving, then jack up VAT later.Speculations have the new VAT rate at 22% after Christmas. Who's glasses are rose tinted still? :lol:
All I see is a headache with getting the invoices changed on the exact day that the rate is changed.
How selfish of me!
Speculations have the new VAT rate at 22% after Christmas. Who's glasses are rose tinted still? :lol:
I very much doubt significant tax increases will be implemented before the general election, which must be held within the next 18 months, but likey to be sometime during 2009. I wouldnt be suprised of further cuts in taxes, tends to be usual practice during election approach.
tigersaw
23-11-08, 02:32 PM
Cant see it making any difference, the shops will boost their prices to absorb the saving.
Cant see it making any difference, the shops will boost their prices to absorb the saving.
The shops won't boost prices when the VAT rate drops, they'll leave them the same and just profit more from it by paying less VAT to the govt. When the VAT rate goes back up they'll whack a chunk more on prices to compensate for it. Either way we, the consumer, loses out and the shops and govt make even more money out of it.
tigersaw
23-11-08, 02:47 PM
The shops won't boost prices when the VAT rate drops, they'll leave them the same and just profit more from it by paying less VAT to the govt. When the VAT rate goes back up they'll whack a chunk more on prices to compensate for it. Either way we, the consumer, loses out and the shops and govt make even more money out of it.
exactly what I meant - boost (pre-vat) prices so the net ticket price remains the same
squirrel_hunter
23-11-08, 03:31 PM
Lozzo, I'm sure that is whats going to happen. The average Joe on the street won't see a blind bit of difference.
However it might benefit a small number of people, me for example. I'm a softie for a retailer, I'm betting (hoping) 17.5 is hard coded all over the place. Queue the crisis meeting Monday morning followed by the sound of overtime clocking up...
General concensus seems to be that the rate cut is coming.
Don't know what world these characters live in, it won't make a blind bit of difference to Joe Public's spending will it?
Roll up, everything slashed by 1.5%, grab it while you can! Yeah, right.
The way things are, with possible redundancy etc looming over so many folks, we'll buy what we really need, everyday items, whether it's £1-99 or £1-94 matters not one jot. If you're looking at a new TV, £7 off a £500 item isn't going to suddenly make it affordable if it wasn't before.
We're all in the doodoo, it's only the depth that varies.
PS - that's not forgetting that the pound has lost 25% in the last 3 months, so imported goods are not going to be falling in price are they?
kwak zzr
23-11-08, 10:37 PM
Roll up, everything slashed by 1.5%,
2.5%
However it might benefit a small number of people, me for example. I'm a softie for a retailer, I'm betting (hoping) 17.5 is hard coded all over the place. Queue the crisis meeting Monday morning followed by the sound of overtime clocking up...
That's where I'm breathing a huge sigh of relief that I didn't get it hard coded into our new system (that hasn't gone live yet!). It's been about 17 years since the last change, was it '91?
punyXpress
23-11-08, 11:13 PM
How much did Marks & Spencer's sales go up last week when they cut their prices by 20% ?
It makes Gordon's cut look pathetic, but the sting appears to be that they are raising Income Tax AFTER the next election - what a poisoned chalice that will be.
Hi Lou M
Could you PM me 7 random numbers between 1 & 49 ( inclusive ) ?
It might JUST solve one poor 8u99er's cash flow!
squirrel_hunter
23-11-08, 11:18 PM
The last change was quite some time ago, pre-dating any of my code. But I do know we have some provision to account for it at the till point (I discovered this a year ago and included it in a new system even though I said it will never be used!). However its some of the newer stuff that I wouldn't be to sure about...
What about all the small business importers paying vat who may have just purchased bulk stock for christmas selling. They will have paid recently the current rate and for sure they wont get a rebate/refund for it. Or does the import of goods fall into another vat rule?
squirrel_hunter
23-11-08, 11:22 PM
How much did Marks & Spencer's sales go up last week when they cut their prices by 20% ?
How much did they put the price of the goods up the night before they reduced them by 20%?
I would hate to dispel a few myths about retail, but offers are very often not always what they appear to be...
kwak zzr
23-11-08, 11:28 PM
if prices dont drop then people wont spend simple as. dont matter how much they say vat is dropping its if people decide they can now afford something.
They should have given everyone on the electoral register a lump sum share out of the 12 billion they reckon this cut will cost. I reckon we'd all be in for around 250 quid :)
What about all the small business importers paying vat who may have just purchased bulk stock for christmas selling. They will have paid recently the current rate and for sure they wont get a rebate/refund for it. Or does the import of goods fall into another vat rule?
If the business is VAT registered then they will be able to recover all of whatever VAT they have paid.
The new rate will be charged at the time of sale to the consumer.
They should have given everyone on the electoral register a lump sum share out of the 12 billion they reckon this cut will cost. I reckon we'd all be in for around 250 quid :)
Genius :D
I reckon it would be more like £400 if there's 30M on the register :smt102
People would notice that, not 2p here 4p there or £7 on £500.
Is that what they reckon £12Bn?
I'm sure I heard that figure mentioned this morning. On Sky news I think
Most of the cost of this is in business spending, not consumer spending. As pointed out, the difference to the price of consumer goods is fairly minimal, but the difference in business-to-business transactions will be huge and irrelevant (input/output all accounted for separately and reclaimed or paid to HMRC as appropriate)
It annoys me that it is being presented as "more money in your pocket." It's not - I will have exactly the same in my pocket, but goods will be very slightly cheaper.
As I don't have a mortgage, I haven't benefited from the interest rate cuts,
I do have a mortgage but i still havn't benefited from the interest rate cuts because very few of the thieving gits have passed any of it on. :rant:
How much did they put the price of the goods up the night before they reduced them by 20%?
I would hate to dispel a few myths about retail, but offers are very often not always what they appear to be...
IIRC, the law regarding "offers" in retail are that the product(s) being put on offer must of been a certain price for 28days previous to the offer. The offer also has a time limit imposed on it. At least, that's the way it was when I worked in retail. Retaillers also have to prove their prices prior to the offer starting (not difficult though in practice).
Although, there are ways to get around that, which people like DFS are very adapt at. Things like only putting half of your stock on offer at any given time, and rotating accordingly.
I do have a mortgage but i still havn't benefited from the interest rate cuts because very few of the thieving gits have passed any of it on. :rant:
I have a mortgage & have benefit hugely so far. I'm one of the lucky ones. Within the last few months, my mortgage payments have pretty much halved.
startrek.steve
24-11-08, 09:11 AM
They've already said when the economy has "Recovered" theyre putting VAT back up again...
squirrel_hunter
24-11-08, 10:27 AM
How much did they put the price of the goods up the night before they reduced them by 20%?
I would hate to dispel a few myths about retail, but offers are very often not always what they appear to be...
IIRC, the law regarding "offers" in retail are that the product(s) being put on offer must of been a certain price for 28days previous to the offer. The offer also has a time limit imposed on it. At least, that's the way it was when I worked in retail. Retaillers also have to prove their prices prior to the offer starting (not difficult though in practice).
Although, there are ways to get around that, which people like DFS are very adapt at. Things like only putting half of your stock on offer at any given time, and rotating accordingly.
Oh how I laughed. True there are laws about this but its very easy to work round them like DFS do, although there are far simplier methods. But its not just raising the prices the night before that retailers do, however explaining them all just might take a little time.
punyXpress
24-11-08, 10:37 AM
They've already said when the economy has "Recovered" theyre putting VAT back up again...
To 20% or more?
I'd trust M & S any day over H.M.Gov !
VAT has indeed been cut to 15% effective as of Monday, and will run for 13 months
Chancellor has said the shortfall in revenue will come from increased duty in cigarettes, alcohol and fuel.
National Insurance will increase from 2010.
'triffic
Biker Biggles
24-11-08, 06:16 PM
Whats really needed is policies which resurrect manufacturing industry in this country in order to produce the wealth that will ultimately get us out of this mess.As it has taken four decades to destroy that industry this cannot be seen as a quick fix, rather a long term strategy.Anything else is just tinkering at the edges of the problem,and borrowing to create yet another unsustainable bubble will just take us further down the road to ruin.Given that we import most of the consumer goods this fiscal stimulus is meant to create a demand for,you could argue that we are just borrowing to subsidise the Chinese economy.??????
squirrel_hunter
24-11-08, 09:43 PM
Well everything he announced will not help me one bit but will end up costing me more in the long run.
The reduction in VAT will be off set in part by a rise in duty on alcohol and petrol, so it looks like I'm going to have to give up drink driving.
What made me laugh the most though was that he wants to see retailers pass the savings on to customers post haste. This resulted in a few panicked looks and phone calls around the management. We will be preparing to reduce the prices like all retailers will have to, however I feel its going to be a Mexican standoff to see who, if anyone, reduces the end price to the consumer by the full 2.5%.
punyXpress
24-11-08, 10:54 PM
VAT has indeed been cut to 15% effective as of Monday, and will run for 13 months
Chancellor has said the shortfall in revenue will come from increased duty in cigarettes, alcohol and fuel.
'triffic
But will NOT be reduced when VAT goes back up! Quelle surprise - surely that's not another stealth tax?
This VAT cut won't reduce the cost of anything, what a pumper Darling is. Given the majority of things are transported using fuel, and the fuel tax is being adjusted to account for the VAT cut, there will be negligable effects on consumers.
Saving 2.5%, and that's IF it gets passed on to the end consumer, is hardly doing anything when you can go out at the minute and get huge discounts waaay in excess of this 'cos nobody's buying anything.
Flamin_Squirrel
25-11-08, 09:00 AM
Whats really needed is policies which resurrect manufacturing industry in this country in order to produce the wealth that will ultimately get us out of this mess.As it has taken four decades to destroy that industry this cannot be seen as a quick fix, rather a long term strategy.Anything else is just tinkering at the edges of the problem,and borrowing to create yet another unsustainable bubble will just take us further down the road to ruin.Given that we import most of the consumer goods this fiscal stimulus is meant to create a demand for,you could argue that we are just borrowing to subsidise the Chinese economy.??????
We still have hi-tech manufacturing here. We'll not go back to low tech in the forseeable future, because we simply can't compete.
We will be preparing to reduce the prices like all retailers will have to, however I feel its going to be a Mexican standoff to see who, if anyone, reduces the end price to the consumer by the full 2.5%.
I imagine that the 2.5% will kept by retailers to help keep their heads above water.
Lets not forget there are 3 different VAT rates. 17.5%, 5% and zero (of course, there's exempt as well, but thats not the point).
Some figures for you...
Basically, you'll only benefit if you buy a lot of high priced luxury items. Otherwise, it's nothing to write home about. 2p/ltr from petrol though.
EDIT: See this quote as well.
Speculations have the new VAT rate at 22% after Christmas. Who's glasses are rose tinted still? :lol:
Just rememebr, there is no VAT on food.
Biker Biggles
25-11-08, 11:25 AM
[quote=Flamin_Squirrel;1696631]We still have hi-tech manufacturing here. We'll not go back to low tech in the forseeable future, because we simply can't compete.
The trend is that all manufacturing here is shrinking,and the uncomfortable truth is that unless we find a way to create real wealth here in UK there is no future for us.What we cant do is continue to sell off assets created by previous generations,and spend the proceeds on imported goods,bolstering such behaviour by borrowing ever greater sums secured against made up values of the remaining assets we havnt yet sold off.
This behaviour has been unsustainable for thirty years and I think the chickens are home and roosting.
Just rememebr, there is no VAT on food.
Hence the 3 different VAT rates I mentionned. :) Funnily enough, I just posted about two specific food items not having VAT applicable in the "Spend, Spend, Spend!" thread. :)
We just had our first customer ask for his order to be held until Monday before processing.
Ceri JC
25-11-08, 05:14 PM
Just rememebr, there is no VAT on certain types of food.
...
gettin2dizzy
25-11-08, 05:22 PM
What a load of nonsense. Like any retailer will both alter their prices at their own expense. They'll just soak up the extra profit.
How about cutting back on the ridiculous number of public sector jobs, get out of the EU, quit wasting money on an illegal war, stop giving handouts to third world rulers to equip their armies, force lazy gits to get a job, and if you need another revenue stream? Increase tax on cheap imported product to help make British manufactured products more competitive.
God forbid, even go mental and legalise drugs! The tax on that, plus the wasting of money on their 'war against' drugs would even contribute.
Time for Labour to go. Their tired old ways, of spending until the country is bust are obviously too deeply rooted in their party for us to trust them.
missyburd
25-11-08, 05:25 PM
Hence the 3 different VAT rates I mentionned. :) Funnily enough, I just posted about two specific food items not having VAT applicable in the "Spend, Spend, Spend!" thread. :)
Guilty :oops:I thought there was on certain types of food but then it wouldn't matter if there was. If I need those foods I'll have to buy them regardless of price.
yorkie_chris
25-11-08, 05:26 PM
How about cutting back on the ridiculous number of public sector jobs, get out of the EU, quit wasting money on an illegal war, stop giving handouts to third world rulers to equip their armies, force lazy gits to get a job, and if you need another revenue stream? Increase tax on cheap imported product to help make British manufactured products more competitive.
But that would require a leader with a spine, and a brain. Which is really unlikely as such people aren't drawn to politics.
gettin2dizzy
25-11-08, 05:39 PM
But that would require a leader with a spine, and a brain. Which is really unlikely as such people aren't drawn to politics.
Wanting to be in politics should be a condition that prevents you from even voting.
As much as I hate Labour, the Tories are just as idiotic. We'd function better as a society in a big free for all!
On a bright note though, tampons will get cheaper by 2.5%.... you know, those taxable 'luxuries' :lol:
How about getting rid of the NHS?
Flamin_Squirrel
25-11-08, 05:55 PM
But that would require a leader with a spine, and a brain. Which is really unlikely as such people aren't drawn to politics.
I think William Hague would have done a reasonable job. But no, people didn't vote for him because he's bald. I'd say we've got the government we deserve, after all they might be fools, but surely we're the bigger fools if we keep voting them in.
slark01
25-11-08, 05:56 PM
I think William Hague would have done a reasonable job. But no, people didn't vote for him because he's bald. I'd say we've got the government we deserve, after all they might be fools, but surely we're the bigger fools if we keep voting them in.
+1
Been saying that for years!
ThEGr33k
25-11-08, 05:56 PM
Havnt they put the price of fuel back up 2p... so that means all this "saving" is going to be completly killed by the fact that the prices of good will have to go up because the price of transporting the goods has gone up. Well done.
GET LABOUR OUT!
This of course will mean the demise of the "£299-99" or "£499-99" price tag for washing machines and TVs etc. It'll now be "£293-61" and "£489-35".
Yeah, right.
northwind
25-11-08, 08:44 PM
Already some retailers are dropping prices though
Guilty :oops:I thought there was on certain types of food
You're quite right There's only VAT on certain foods (supposedly luxuries) and all hot food :)
How about getting rid of the NHS?
.....and replace it with what, insurances?, it would cost you more & if you were a heavy drinker, smoker or obese it would most likely cost even more or you may get refused, what about those that couldn't afford insurance, the out of work or the poor old pensioners who have risked life & limb fighting for their country.
Rather than do away with it they should give it a propper overhaul, far far too much middle management & people in suits, they should also enforce the treatment of british nationals only, anyone else can be treated if needed but would be charged the same as i would be if i chose to live elsewhere.
:rant:
Gazza77
26-11-08, 09:12 AM
I think William Hague would have done a reasonable job. But no, people didn't vote for him because he's bald.
There goes my potential career as an MP then....
Gazza77
26-11-08, 09:16 AM
.....and replace it with what, insurances?, it would cost you more & if you were a heavy drinker, smoker or obese it would most likely cost even more or you may get refused, what about those that couldn't afford insurance, the out of work or the poor old pensioners who have risked life & limb fighting for their country.
Rather than do away with it they should give it a propper overhaul, far far too much middle management & people in suits, they should also enforce the treatment of british nationals only, anyone else can be treated if needed but would be charged the same as i would be if i chose to live elsewhere.
:rant:
Overseas visitors are charged. Many do pay. Have you tried getting money from someone with a debt overseas though, especially if it is a 3rd world country? Alternatively, do you think it would be seen as acceptable to turn away someone in serious need of care who turns up at a hospital, or ask them for ID first?
Decisions such as this hold many moral issues at the time of need for the service, and anyway, the amount of money spent on treating overseas patients that is never recovered is a tiny proportion of NHS spending.
Legislation that caps prices paid for new drugs to drug companies however would save the NHS a fortune....
Overseas visitors are charged. Many do pay. Have you tried getting money from someone with a debt overseas though, especially if it is a 3rd world country? Alternatively, do you think it would be seen as acceptable to turn away someone in serious need of care who turns up at a hospital, or ask them for ID first?
My brother is a paramedic. I've heard how much s**t he has to put up with on a daily basis (both UK Citizens & otherwise).
I'd have no quarms about the hospitals & ambulance staff having the attitude of "I don't like the look of you f**k off home & die!"
Might make far more people respect the service.
Gazza77
26-11-08, 09:23 AM
My brother is a paramedic. I've heard how much s**t he has to put up with on a daily basis (both UK Citizens & otherwise).
I'd have no quarms about the hospitals & ambulance staff having the attitude of "I don't like the look of you f**k off home & die!"
Might make far more people respect the service.
I'd have no quarms in the sort of scenario. I was thinking more along the lines of an overseas visitor (illegal immegrant or not) being brought in from an RTA. Do you refuse to treat them until they have provided proof they can pay in what may be a life or death situation?
Biker Biggles
26-11-08, 11:04 AM
This is an immigration issue.Foriegn nationals should be refused entry to this country unless they can provide proof of medical insurance,or they come from a country that has reciprical arrangements with us(as all EU countries do).
On the wider NHS thing----I agree with the getting rid of the suits completely,but radical change will be forced on all public services as a result of the economic collapse we are currently going through.Many public services will not survive the next five to ten years as the money to provide them simply wont be there,and the NHS will feel that heat like all others.
grh1904
26-11-08, 01:18 PM
I've just watched a bit of PMQ's on Sky News. Gordie B. got a right grilling about VAT.
He was asked several times, when VAT is due to go back up, would it be going to a rate higher than 17.5%. He was asked in such a way that only a one word answer was needed Yes or No.
Gordie waxed lyrical on each occassion, not really giving an answer, then turned it all to how much of a mess the Tories made of the recession back when..............
He was aksed several times, even asked the question followed with Yes or No?, but still his answer was very confusing followed by an attack on the Tories.
Having watched this I have absolutely no faith at all now in New Labour, I don't trust them, and I'm fully expecting a MASSIVE tax rise in the future, just so that they can pay their way out of the mess they are getting us into now.
yorkie_chris
26-11-08, 01:29 PM
Someone else has mentioned that this could be a bit of manauvering just to get back into power next time around. Pretty much confirms the theory that the worst people to be in politics are politicians.
Welcome to invoicing from hell. what a cluster****. Stuck trying to invoice something that started about 6 months ago & will finish in about a month. Variable VAT. Great.
yorkie_chris
26-11-08, 04:38 PM
This country is f'k'd.
In the words of a clever gremlin;
"put it all on canned food and shotguns"
Welcome to invoicing from hell. what a cluster****. Stuck trying to invoice something that started about 6 months ago & will finish in about a month. Variable VAT. Great.
VAT's charged at the time you raise the invoice :???: what's the problem?
If you haven't invoiced them yet, do it all at 15%, otherwise 2 different rates, so what?
vBulletin® , Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.