shotgun brandishing...

[Bibio]

my sister was out with a walk with her dog, the dog got off the lead into an empty field, whilst trying to get the dog back on the lead a farmer came along with a shotgun in a case, went up to my sister then took the shotgun out the case cocked the shotgun then threatened to shoot the dog. the gun was loaded and he was brandishing it about my sister...

this was near Bassingbourn in Cambridgeshire..

so watch out anyone staying there, my sister said he looked a bit unhinged...

i have told her to report it to the police... but she said 'why, they wont do anything about it and its his word against mine'.

[dizzyblonde]

plus they were on his land. Its not the first time I've heard of farmers doing this

[Biker Biggles]

Had he been drinking the sheep dip again?

[Bibio]

plus they were on his land. Its not the first time I've heard of farmers doing this

i thought that the goverment passed a law of 'right to roam'

[Sean_C]

Not a million miles away from me..


Whether she was allowed to be there or not, there are better ways to let somebody know..

[Dangerous Dave]

the gun was loaded and he was brandishing it about my sister...
That is illegal to do even on your own land and with a fire arms licence.

Got his address, I'm feeling grumpy and willing to return the act.
plus they were on his land. Its not the first time I've heard of farmers doing this
i thought that the goverment passed a law of 'right to roam'
Aye, they have. If however the land is littered with 'Keep Out' signs you do not have the right to roam, its an issue they have with Salisbury Plain and its neighbouring farmers.

[Bibio]

Got his address, I'm feeling grumpy and willing to return the act.



thanks for the offer Dave, but no one was hurt (this time) and i don't think my sister will be walking down that way again... if she wasn't so far away, my brother and i would have given him a lesson in manners..

thing is my sister is not like me and my brother, she is a timid person and this has really shook her up..

[madness]

i thought that the goverment passed a law of 'right to roam'

They did, but that only applies to certain pieces of land. Usually where no one really wants to walk anyway.

[Lozzo]

my sister was out with a walk with her dog, the dog got off the lead into an empty field, whilst trying to get the dog back on the lead a farmer came along with a shotgun in a case, went up to my sister then took the shotgun out the case cocked the shotgun then threatened to shoot the dog. the gun was loaded and he was brandishing it about my sister...

this was near Bassingbourn in Cambridgeshire..



No doubt about it, get the cops involved. Using a shotgun as a threatening weapon is a very seriious crime, especially as your sister was in close contact with the dog at the time the farmer was making threats to shoot the dog.

[fizzwheel]

Was there any livestock on the piece of ground your sister was walking on.

I might be wrong, but I believe a farmer can take action i.e shot your dog if he believes the dog is worrying his stock.

As I said I'm not sure if this is true, might be an urban myth.

I'm not condoning what he did, but it might explain things a little ?

[Bibio]

Was there any livestock on the piece of ground your sister was walking on.

I might be wrong, but I believe a farmer can take action i.e shot your dog if he believes the dog is worrying his stock.

As I said I'm not sure if this is true, might be an urban myth.

I'm not condoning what he did, but it might explain things a little ?

you are total right the farmer does have a right to shoot dogs that are worrying livestock. since they done away with the dog/cat licence pets are classified as vermin..

no there was no livestock or crops in the field, it was a 'fallow' field there were no 'keep out' warnings (i asked these questions).

what gets me is that my sister said he appeared out of nowhere. and this was within only 5 minuets of my sister being in the field. this sounds to me as though the farmer was watching from afar.. looking for such an incident..

my sister had to beg him not to shoot the dog (its a rescue dog and she has only just got him).

to give the farmer his due he did apologise at the end... but as far as i am concerned he should have not been brandishing a gun in front of anyone. i would class this as intimidation...

[Dangerous Dave]

but as far as i am concerned he should have not been brandishing a gun in front of anyone. i would class this as intimidation...
+ 1

thanks for the offer Dave
Bugger, I was gonna pass it on to two of the wannabes here that are starting to p*** me off.

[Bibio]

Bugger, I was gonna pass it on to two of the wannabes here that are starting to p*** me off.

i know i'm a 'spoil sport'... :smt072

[punyXpress]

this was near Bassingbourn in Cambridgeshire..

Well known for centuries of in-breeding amongst the lande 'gentry'

i have told her to report it to the police...

But they'll never do anything if it's not reported

i thought that the goverment passed a law of 'right to roam'

Don't think that right includes having dogs other that ' under close control'

No doubt about it, get the cops involved. Using a shotgun as a threatening weapon is a very seriious crime, especially as your sister was in close contact with the dog at the time the farmer was making threats to shoot the dog.

+1 - Essential to do this - how far will he go next time?

[Bibio]

+1 - Essential to do this - how far will he go next time?

that's what i said to my sister....

[SV-net]

If a farmer shot my dog he would have to shoot me too. Unless there was an attack on the livestock he had no right at all to act this way. If that was my sister I would have gone down with the boys for a visit. chob neese

[Bibio]

If a farmer shot my dog he would have to shoot me too. Unless there was an attack on the livestock he had no right at all to act this way. If that was my sister I would have gone down with the boys for a visit. chob neese

trust me i'm absolutely seething about it (i'm just glad she is ok)... and if i wasn't 300 odd miles away and i really don't want to be locked up over chrimbo... he would be a rather sore person...

[Sally]

Was there any livestock on the piece of ground your sister was walking on.

I might be wrong, but I believe a farmer can take action i.e shot your dog if he believes the dog is worrying his stock.

As I said I'm not sure if this is true, might be an urban myth.

I'm not condoning what he did, but it might explain things a little ?

If the dog is hassling the farmers stock, especially sheep, they have the right shoot them. Happened before, hes protecting his stock.

But still, no need for the intimidation, especially when packing a loaded shotgun.
A word to you're sister about keeping her dog under control on his land would have been suffice.

[Sean_C]

There's no sheep or anything grazing round here :p

[Sally]

What was he compaining about then?

[Sean_C]

Grumpy old farmer, was probably complaining about anything he could..

[Bibio]

he was complaining about my sisters dog running about his field.... although the field was 'fallow'... think he is probably a crop farmer bored out of his skull coz its winter.

btw she said he looked just like the farmer out of 'babe'...

[Biker Biggles]

He wasnt that nutcase who shot the pikey burglar was he?
Or was your dog worrying the wheatfield?

[Bibio]

He wasnt that nutcase who shot the pikey burglar was he?
Or was your dog worrying the wheatfield?

rofl.....

[missyburd]

thing is my sister is not like me and my brother, she is a timid person and this has really shook her up..

I'm not surprised, what a horrible interruption to a dogwalk! :(

As people have said, a farmer is well within his right to shoot on the grounds of worrying the livestock, however there are a few who will shoot regardless. I live in an area full of farms and as a result we do not let our Alsatian off the lead full stop when out walking, even if just on a path. Not that he would worry sheep - not that we'd take the risk anyway - but if a farmer just saw what looked like an Alsatian it'd be shot immediately, big dogs are not smiled upon in farmerland, and with good reason.

What type of dog is it your sister's got Bibio? If it's a little spaniel or something then I would say this blokes overreacting a LOT, obviously it would just be a pet on a run. However I think there is always the risk, if the owner is not easily seen with the dog, whatever the breed, then the farmer is bound to be a little paranoid.

However the whole waving a gun in her face thing is bang out of order (b-dum tsch) and he should be reported, whether she was on his land or not. There is no excuse for blatent rudeness and threatening behaviour, just asking her to get off his property would be enough I'm sure, tis an easy mistake to make after all :rolleyes: Why men feel the need to brandish their weapons when women are about I really don't know :lol:

[Speedy Claire]

I hear the pennine massive are looking for a venue for a xmas get together..... maybe they could have a picnic in a field near Bassingbourn in Cambridgeshire :-D

[Bibio]

@ MYC. the dog was on a lead, but it slipped the collar. the dog (i haven't seen it yet) is a small mongrel no bigger than a spaniel.. as far as my sister has said.

why he had a shotgun with him when he is not a livestock farmer i don't know... but all i can think of is 'this is a 'local' field for 'local' people' or mabee its coz his manhood is so inadiquate that he needs a shotgun to make up for it...

@ speedy. that would be funny... all the blokes could get their manhood out and point it at him. see how he likes it. on second thaughts he might like it...

[dizzyblonde]

what was the harm in a polite ' ger orf maaa laaand ' :-)

[Speedy Claire]

@ speedy. that would be funny... all the blokes could get their manhood out and point it at him. see how he likes it. on second thaughts he might like it...

well obviously we`d require photographic evidence of the pennine massive getting their manhoods out!!!! :-D could be a new type of lunge... bit cold tho!

[fizzwheel]

pennine massive getting their manhoods out!!!! :-D could be a new type of lunge... bit cold tho!

couldnt really call them the "Pennie Massive" under those circumstances then... more like the "Pennine Shrinkage" perhaps ?

[Speedy Claire]

couldnt really call them the "Pennie Massive" under those circumstances then... more like the "Pennine Shrinkage" perhaps ?


:smt046

[Bibio]

well at leist the farmer would have been in good company.... :-)

[missyburd]

why he had a shotgun with him when he is not a livestock farmer i don't know... but all i can think of is 'this is a 'local' field for 'local' people' or mabee its coz his manhood is so inadiquate that he needs a shotgun to make up for it...


That sounds more realistic, silly to$$er. He should know better, what goes around comes around, one day he'll have someone waving their weapon in his face and I can bet he won't enjoy it one little bit!

Lmao at Claire and Fizz :lol:

[Luckypants]

Regardless of rights of the farmer carrying his gun with him in a case, on his own land, you lot are all condemning him. How do you know he has not lost thousands of pounds worth of livestock to out of control dogs? Even a small dog can damage sheep / pigs / chickens etc to the point where they have to be destroyed. The farmer gets no compensation or insurance payout, they just have to bear the cost. So there is little wonder farmers get rather angry with dogs that are not under any apparent control - which your sister's dog was not, having slipped his collar and run off.

Now the farmer's reaction in this case (as described by your sister) was absolutely over the top. He is most certainly acting in an illegal manner by removing the gun from it's case, cocking it and threatening to shoot the dog. Is your sister completely sure he cocked it? Is she she he was not just double checking the safety was on? How familiar is she with shotguns?

As for the ignorance of the 'right to roam' laws, it is the assumption that you can walk where the **** you like because you have a 'right to roam' that made landowners so opposed to the legislation. There is whole swathes of countryside where there is no 'right to roam' - you may wander about on what is termed 'access areas' or 'access land' and this is clearly mapped out. Generally this is land above 300 feet (thereabouts), heaths, moors etc. So you will probably find there is no 'right to roam' over this farmers land, so your sister and her dog were trespassing.

Try understanding life in the country before condemning those that live and work in it.

[missyburd]

Am just thinking, the lady with the dog must have been on his land a while for him to have noticed, found his gun and come out to see her. Which perhaps would suggest that he was just wanting her off his land as opposed to initially shooting the dog, as maybe he would have already seen the dog had been on its lead previously?

Also an inconvenience she's not had the dog long as it would still be adjusting and therefore no doubt a bit disobedient, which wouldn't have looked good from the farmer's perspective. I just think the threatening behaviour is the main problem here not so much the issue with trespassing.

[Bibio]

i will say it again .... he is not a livestock farmer... there is very little livestock farming around where my sister stays.. its mostly crop farming...

and yes he did take the 'broken down' shotgun out of its bag then 'closed the barrel' then 'cocked it', weather he had the safety on or off i do not know...

a woman on her own shouting on a dog in an empty field warrants a farmer to **** a gun.. the arseh0le should be strung up...

a simple what are you up to (although this should have been obvious) would have done.. not a rant and rave and threatening behaviour act..

i know a couple of livestock farmers and i side with them as to shooting 'stray dogs'.

i also know that farmers loose livestock to there own dogs but they dont tell the media about that do they.

this man was oviusly taking the 'off my land' to exremes and warrents a causion..

when it comes down to it he should not have a loaded gun anywhere near my sister...

and i'll say it again just to clear up any confusion .... there was no livestock in the feild or surounding areas.... so the farmer having a gun with him warrents intimidation.

[3MM]

Regardless of rights of the farmer carrying his gun with him in a case, on his own land, you lot are all condemning him. How do you know he has not lost thousands of pounds worth of livestock to out of control dogs? Even a small dog can damage sheep / pigs / chickens etc to the point where they have to be destroyed. The farmer gets no compensation or insurance payout, they just have to bear the cost. So there is little wonder farmers get rather angry with dogs that are not under any apparent control - which your sister's dog was not, having slipped his collar and run off.

Now the farmer's reaction in this case (as described by your sister) was absolutely over the top. He is most certainly acting in an illegal manner by removing the gun from it's case, cocking it and threatening to shoot the dog. Is your sister completely sure he cocked it? Is she she he was not just double checking the safety was on? How familiar is she with shotguns?

As for the ignorance of the 'right to roam' laws, it is the assumption that you can walk where the **** you like because you have a 'right to roam' that made landowners so opposed to the legislation. There is whole swathes of countryside where there is no 'right to roam' - you may wander about on what is termed 'access areas' or 'access land' and this is clearly mapped out. Generally this is land above 300 feet (thereabouts), heaths, moors etc. So you will probably find there is no 'right to roam' over this farmers land, so your sister and her dog were trespassing.

Try understanding life in the country before condemning those that live and work in it.


+ 1

[carty]

I'm with Luckypants. Whilst the guy's reaction was clearly over the top, maybe he was just having a bad day? It's similar (but admittedly different) to someone who's been cut up by a car whilst out on the road and then kicking their wing mirror off, (which is something that many on here have claimed to have done). Completely over the top (and illegal, it's wanton criminal damage) but it makes you feel better doesn't it?

Bottom line is that no-one got shot and your sister won't go on the land again. The farmer has achieved his aim of keeping trespassers off his land.

[454697819]

it is illegal to brandish a fire arm in public, ur sister made it public...

[carty]

it is illegal to brandish a fire arm in public, ur sister made it public...

Devils advocate mode on

It's illegal to speed but if you don't crash or get caught it doesn't matter does it?

/Devil's advocate mode off

[timwilky]

One idiot call the police after he asked me if he had seen his dog and I told him it was in the shed and I wanted £5 for the goose it had kill. when he begrudgingly paid, I gave him his dog back in a sack.

Unless there is a public footpath, you have no rights to walk will nilly over private land. How would you like it if I took my dog into your lounge/back garden etc to have a crap.

Wandering about on private land, you destroy crops, disturb wildlife etc. Your dogs injure/kill lambs. Stick to the public footpaths. Glose gates behind you and clear up your ****.

[Frank]

One idiot call the police after he asked me if he had seen his dog and I told him it was in the shed and I wanted £5 for the goose it had kill. when he begrudgingly paid, I gave him his dog back in a sack.

****.
:o

[G]

it is illegal to brandish a fire arm in public, ur sister made it public...


Fortunately the farmer was in 'his own private field' where he is within his rights to shoot whatever he likes, be it rabbits, grouse, foxes or other pest....he can brandish his gun if he wants.

If she was not on private land she would not have felt threatened.

[G]

One idiot call the police after he asked me if he had seen his dog and I told him it was in the shed and I wanted £5 for the goose it had kill.


Is that all a goose costs :o Hell I have always wanted roaming birds whether it be geese or ducks or chickens.....never looked into it as I assumed they cost a fair bit and I didnt know where to start looking to get some.

[Luckypants]

and yes he did take the 'broken down' shotgun out of its bag then 'closed the barrel' then 'cocked it', weather he had the safety on or off i do not know...

It was either a museum piece or he did NOT **** the gun. Most shotguns are 'cocked' by the action of closing. Most also have the safety come on automagically when the gun is closed. The big question is did he load it?

a simple what are you up to (although this should have been obvious) would have done.. not a rant and rave and threatening behaviour act...

Agree totally.

[carty]

I wonder if he cocked it like The Terminator by shaking it up and down?! :p

(Honestly not taking the mick Bibio - it is just a funny image in my head of a farmer trying to act like the Terminator!)

[454697819]

Fortunately the farmer was in 'his own private field' where he is within his rights to shoot whatever he likes, be it rabbits, grouse, foxes or other pest....he can brandish his gun if he wants.

If she was not on private land she would not have felt threatened.


Id call the police... claim attempted murder..???


or get an even bigger gu,,,,,, no I am just getting carried away now

[carty]

For attempted murder I would have thought you actually have to try, or be seen to try, to murder someone. That is clearly not the case here.

[timwilky]

Is that all a goose costs :o Hell I have always wanted roaming birds whether it be geese or ducks or chickens.....never looked into it as I assumed they cost a fair bit and I didnt know where to start looking to get some.

It was a long time ago. Cost of goose was probably a pound at the time. but heck I had to also fund two cartridges and a sack. Plus there was my labour to clean/oil my shotgun afterwards and to carry back the goose and dog.

I think I should have hung that dog on the fence with the other vermin. Pity we are not allowed to shoot humans who trespass. I still carry a scar on my right leg from a little old lady who did not know that particular law when she emptied a barrel on 8 year old me. My fault I should not have stepped off the footpath

[jimmy__riddle]

It was either a museum piece or he did NOT **** the gun. Most shotguns are 'cocked' by the action of closing. Most also have the safety come on automagically when the gun is closed. The big question is did he load it?



Agree totally.

i agree with luckypants here. been a while since ive used a shtogun which needed cocking!

the farmer has every right to shoot on his own land, even if he grows crop, he still needs to keep the rabbits and pigeons at bay.

Ive shot on lots of farms, all with permission, and even at night i come across people tresspassing, often walking dogs. Obvioulsy i always take caution in all shooting and check backstops etc but these people should not be there, and more often than not try to excuse their tresspassing with right to roam rubbish.

the farmer should not have used the shotgun in a threatening way, that is illegal, but posessing a loaded gun on your own land is perfectly legal, tresspassing is not.

[missyburd]

Wandering about on private land, you destroy crops, disturb wildlife etc. Your dogs injure/kill lambs. Stick to the public footpaths. Glose gates behind you and clear up your ****.

Note the points you're making apply to dogs allowed by their owners to roam about in fields, either off a lead or just let loose. In which case the points are well made. However, I have walked on many footpaths which actually go through fields packed with sheep and I'm damned if I'm going to turn around and add extra time to a walk just because of the odd sheep. My dog is by no means small but he is well behaved in areas with livestock, in fact I'd say he's more scared of the sheep than they are of him! :-D

Obviously I'm not on about lambing season here as that would just be stressful for the ewes and I wouldn't dream of wandering through then, buit the rest of the yeardog just stays by my side throughout the whole walk and the sheep just watch us go by. Cows are less tolerating though and they will walk deliberately towards you even with a big Alsatian :rolleyes:

[454697819]

unless there is a footpath right of way..

[jimmy__riddle]

unless there is a footpath right of way..


of course. anyone who shoots properly knows the location of every footpath on the lamd they are shooting on. thats an essential part of shooting responsibly. however people using the footpaths dont always follow them.

[yorkie_chris]

of course. anyone who shoots properly knows the location of every footpath on the lamd they are shooting on. thats an essential part of shooting responsibly. however people using the footpaths dont always follow them.

Yup but many farmers conveniently forget. Anyway he didn't fire so doesn't matter in this case.

You say the guy closed the barrel of the gun... did he actually put a cartridge in it?
It is rare to carry a gun in a case loaded, especially a sporting shotgun as the safety catches are useless. You'd be a f##king idiot to trust one. Unless it was an auto or a pump gun.

Anyway that's aside from the point, this guy is a total nob for behaving like that who gives responsible gun owners a bad name. Simple phrase "get your dog under control or I'm going to shoot it" works fine.

I understand why he was annoyed, I mean why isn't dog under control? But his reaction was totally over the top.

[Dangerous Dave]

Regardless of rights of the farmer carrying his gun with him in a case, on his own land, you lot are all condemning him. How do you know he has not lost thousands of pounds worth of livestock to out of control dogs? Even a small dog can damage sheep / pigs / chickens etc to the point where they have to be destroyed. The farmer gets no compensation or insurance payout, they just have to bear the cost. So there is little wonder farmers get rather angry with dogs that are not under any apparent control - which your sister's dog was not, having slipped his collar and run off.

Now the farmer's reaction in this case (as described by your sister) was absolutely over the top. He is most certainly acting in an illegal manner by removing the gun from it's case, cocking it and threatening to shoot the dog. Is your sister completely sure he cocked it? Is she she he was not just double checking the safety was on? How familiar is she with shotguns?

As for the ignorance of the 'right to roam' laws, it is the assumption that you can walk where the **** you like because you have a 'right to roam' that made landowners so opposed to the legislation. There is whole swathes of countryside where there is no 'right to roam' - you may wander about on what is termed 'access areas' or 'access land' and this is clearly mapped out. Generally this is land above 300 feet (thereabouts), heaths, moors etc. So you will probably find there is no 'right to roam' over this farmers land, so your sister and her dog were trespassing.

Try understanding life in the country before condemning those that live and work in it.
Whilst I agree with you on most of that Luckypants, the fact still remained the farmer used his firearm in an intimidating manor which is illegal. The farmer also came to the conclusion that this dog was a savage, assuming he has had issues with other dogs before. This in the same logic means every mother is like Karen Mathews and every sixty plus year old man is like Gary Glitter. However, as stated he had no livestock.

Most also have the safety come on automagically when the gun is closed. The big question is did he load it?
+ 1

You say the guy closed the barrel of the gun... did he actually put a cartridge in it?
It is rare to carry a gun in a case loaded, especially a sporting shotgun as the safety catches are useless. You'd be a f##king idiot to trust one. Unless it was an auto or a pump gun.
+ 1

[tinpants]

Just to clarify; a shotgun is a shotgun and NOT a firearm. A firearm is legally defined as having a rifled barrel. A shotgun does not have a rifled barrel. This is why there are two distinct classes of licensing. One for shotguns, ie a shotgun licence, and the other a firearms licence, for rifles and pistols. There are also seperate categories for firearms which I'm not too sure about but I believe they cover different types of rifles from rim-fire .22 up to fully automatic machine-guns. The latter being available to dealers only. Although quite why a member of the public would want a machine-gun is beyond me!

As for the trespassing thing, from what I can glean from other posts, the lady in question was not on a public footpath and her dog was not on a lead. Therefore, a) she was trespassing, and b) she was not in proper control of an animal on someone elses land. The farmer was / would have been quite justified in asking her to leave and / or put her dog on a lead. His reaction was a little on the OTT side but, as has been mentioned previously, he may have had trouble with dogs worrying his livestock in the past. Still doesn't really justify what he did though.

[yorkie_chris]

Although quite why a member of the public would want a machine-gun is beyond me!

For home defence of course m'lud ;-)

A shotgun is not a firearm only for licensing purposes, for example if you had a sawn off it'd still be under firearms act and probably section 5 (not sure about that)

Anyway brandishing a shotgun is same offence as a rifle. Still covered under firearms law due to using powder to propel projectile(s)

[dizzyblonde]

For home defence of course m'lud ;-)



we had a big problem with low flying wood pigeons:rolleyes:

[Biker Biggles]

Derail alert.
I thought a firearm was defined by muzzle velocity.Hence some high powered air rifles requiring a firearm license?

[jimmy__riddle]

Derail alert.
I thought a firearm was defined by muzzle velocity.Hence some high powered air rifles requiring a firearm license?

yeah, any air rifle which has a power greater the 12ftlbs requires a firearms certificate

[Dangerous Dave]

Just to clarify; a shotgun is a shotgun and NOT a firearm. A firearm is legally defined as having a rifled barrel. A shotgun does not have a rifled barrel. This is why there are two distinct classes of licensing. One for shotguns, ie a shotgun licence, and the other a firearms licence, for rifles and pistols. There are also seperate categories for firearms which I'm not too sure about but I believe they cover different types of rifles from rim-fire .22 up to fully automatic machine-guns. The latter being available to dealers only.
As far as I am aware a shot gun is a firearm and is covered under the firearms laws, only the licencing is different and a branding a shotgun in public is the same breach of law as it is with a BB gun.

From the Firearms act hanging on our wall - A firearm is a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet out missile can be discharge.

she was trespassing
Only if the land was signed 'keep out no trespassing', other than that you habve the right to roam in the country side.

A shotgun is not a firearm only for licensing purposes, for example if you had a sawn off it'd still be under firearms act and probably section 5 (not sure about that)

Anyway brandishing a shotgun is same offence as a rifle. Still covered under firearms law due to using powder to propel projectile(s)
+ 1

I thought a firearm was defined by muzzle velocity.Hence some high powered air rifles requiring a firearm license?
It is, spot on.

[yorkie_chris]

Energy not velocity [/pedant]

:-P

[Dangerous Dave]

Energy not velocity [/pedant]

:-P
Aye but that only applies to a weapon, say an air pistol, which has a separate source or energy.

PS. I added this to the above post...

From the Firearms act hanging on our wall - A firearm is a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet out missile can be discharge.

[yorkie_chris]

Any air weapon. 12ft.lbs for rifle, 6ft.lbs for pistol.

Another b0llocks law, you can set up a rifle for a pellet that shoots true, dial it into 12 ft.lbs for that weight of ammo, then try another brand that might be a thou small... and it will shoot at 13ft.lbs and shoot all over the place... but still be illegal.

[Dangerous Dave]

Another b0llocks law, you can set up a rifle for a pellet that shoots true, dial it into 12 ft.lbs for that weight of ammo, then try another brand that might be a thou small... and it will shoot at 13ft.lbs and shoot all over the place... but still be illegal.
Aye, this is why it is harder to enforce. Whether you carry an unloaded air pistol or a loaded shot gun in view of the public you will breaking the same law and treated in the same manner.

[ethariel]

my sister was out with a walk with her dog, the dog got off the lead into an empty field, whilst trying to get the dog back on the lead a farmer came along with a shotgun in a case, went up to my sister then took the shotgun out the case cocked the shotgun then threatened to shoot the dog. the gun was loaded and he was brandishing it about my sister...

Pointing it at your sister or at the dog? - If it was at the dog without your sister in the firing line then you are actually quite lucky he did'nt put the dog down! (I have a lot of friends and family up North that would'nt think twice about doing just that)

Regardless of rights of the farmer carrying his gun with him in a case, on his own land, you lot are all condemning him. How do you know he has not lost thousands of pounds worth of livestock to out of control dogs? Even a small dog can damage sheep / pigs / chickens etc to the point where they have to be destroyed. The farmer gets no compensation or insurance payout, they just have to bear the cost. So there is little wonder farmers get rather angry with dogs that are not under any apparent control - which your sister's dog was not, having slipped his collar and run off.

Now the farmer's reaction in this case (as described by your sister) was absolutely over the top. He is most certainly acting in an illegal manner by removing the gun from it's case, cocking it and threatening to shoot the dog. Is your sister completely sure he cocked it? Is she she he was not just double checking the safety was on? How familiar is she with shotguns?

As for the ignorance of the 'right to roam' laws, it is the assumption that you can walk where the **** you like because you have a 'right to roam' that made landowners so opposed to the legislation. There is whole swathes of countryside where there is no 'right to roam' - you may wander about on what is termed 'access areas' or 'access land' and this is clearly mapped out. Generally this is land above 300 feet (thereabouts), heaths, moors etc. So you will probably find there is no 'right to roam' over this farmers land, so your sister and her dog were trespassing.

Try understanding life in the country before condemning those that live and work in it.

+1 on this 100%,many people have no idea how much damage 'pets' do each year to a farmer's livelyhood.


As an aside......


Although quite why a member of the public would want a machine-gun is beyond me!

Hmmmmm.... whay would anyone want a motorcycle capable of 180 MPH+ when the speed limit is 70?

[yorkie_chris]

A "pet" (badadadum... tsch) hate of mine is people using birdshot cartridges if they have to shoot a dog. For f##ks sake use the right tool for the job and be humane about it :-(

[tinpants]

For home defence of course m'lud ;-)

A shotgun is not a firearm only for licensing purposes, for example if you had a sawn off it'd still be under firearms act and probably section 5 (not sure about that)

Anyway brandishing a shotgun is same offence as a rifle. Still covered under firearms law due to using powder to propel projectile(s)

Er, no. A shotgun with a barrel length of 22 inches is deemed an offensive weapon and is therefore illegal. Thus it is not possible to hold a licence for a sawn-off shotgun.

[yorkie_chris]

Section 5 of the firearms act which I was referring to IS the section concerning prohibited weapons. Same as automatic rifles, pistols etc.

The point I was trying to make is it doesn't matter if the firearm is a shotgun or a rifle. It's still covered by the firearms act.

[Dangerous Dave]

The point I was trying to make is it doesn't matter if the firearm is a shotgun or a rifle. It's still covered by the firearms act.
+ 1

A firearm is a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or missile can be discharge.

[yorkie_chris]

So why is a 13ftlb air rifle included in that act eh :-P

[Dangerous Dave]

So why is a 13ftlb air rifle included in that act eh :-P
If ya learn to shoot it right you can kill...

[yorkie_chris]

Yeah same with a 12ft lb one too. And if I wanted to kill someone I would pin them to a nearby tree with the crossbow. Couple ounce of razor sharp broadhead is gonna hurt more than a lead pellet :-P

All the 12ft lb law does is make it harder to shoot bunnies.

[Dangerous Dave]

And if I wanted to kill someone I would pin them to a nearby tree with the crossbow. Couple ounce of razor sharp broadhead is gonna hurt more than a lead pellet :-P
Use your hands, despite what many think you actually leave less traces back to you. I had a good teacher... ;)

All the 12ft lb law does is make it harder to shoot bunnies.
Ha, ha....

It is a stupid law, with so many little loop holes. The thing is no matter what any government do you will never get rid of gun crime. The best they could do is ban all guns, including toy guns, but the black market will still be trading (which is something we are dealing with).

You cannot un-invent something, if you know how a firearm and ammunition works then you can build one yourself with the right tools.

[yorkie_chris]

Yup. Like pistol ban, all that did was to take guns away from people not inclined to break the law.

[timwilky]

Er, no. A shotgun with a barrel length of 22 inches is deemed an offensive weapon and is therefore illegal. Thus it is not possible to hold a licence for a sawn-off shotgun.


Wrong, quite wrong. I used to have an 18" barrelled pump shotgun on my firearms certificate. then again I used to have a H&K 91 in 7.62, Lee Enfield No IV in 7.62, Ruger Redhawk .44", Colt .45", S&W .357", Star 9mm,Winchester plinker in .22", Unique .22" pistol, Anchutz .22 Rifle. Most of which are illegal to own these days.

[jimmy__riddle]

Only if the land was signed 'keep out no trespassing', other than that you habve the right to roam in the country side.


not true, farmland would not be covered by the right to roam act. it applies to mountains, heaths moors etc and area designated as common land. Fields which are privately owned will not be covered in the right to roam act, and so by walking onto it you are walking on someone elses land without permission.

[jimmy__riddle]

+1 on the crossbow, my hunting bow would do a much better job than my shotgun or any rimfire

[punyXpress]

not true, farmland would not be covered by the right to roam act. it applies to mountains, heaths moors etc and area designated as common land. Fields which are privately owned will not be covered in the right to roam act, and so by walking onto it you are walking on someone elses land without permission.

Wasn't there something in Right to Roam about Uncultivated Land. This got landowners ploughing up all sorts of unsuitable land just before surveys were done - just to keep the Great Unwashed ( that's me! ) out.

[Dangerous Dave]

farmland would not be covered by the right to roam act.
Only if the land is being used for grazing or crops. I know for a fact that in both Dorset and Wiltshire you can walk freely on a piece of land that is not being used for either of the two previously, domestic property, or signed 'no trespassers'. It became more public in Wiltshire when Madonna was trying to stop it from happening.

[ethariel]

Yup. Like pistol ban, all that did was to take guns away from people not inclined to break the law.


Aye, that was the issue following the handgun ban. Firearms related crime rose when the ban came into force, no political party has ever dared to comment on that one on the record!


As an aside, the rules on a Xbow are sooo flimsy in relation to thier power (till someone uses one in anger i suppose then they will ban them too), the 12 foot pound rule on the air rifle was due to some government think tank working out that above that might actually stand a chance of killing you if shot accidently rather than on purpose.........

(Also i hope i'm not offending anyone)

[jimmy__riddle]

Wasn't there something in Right to Roam about Uncultivated Land. This got landowners ploughing up all sorts of unsuitable land just before surveys were done - just to keep the Great Unwashed ( that's me! ) out.

it has to be access land to exercise your 'right to roam'.

theres maps showing what land is access land, but farmers who have access land can close it if they want. not everywhere is access land.

farmers can have land which is not used for anythng and restrict access, as even though it is not being used for crops or livestock it can still have a purpose such as wildlife habitat, set aside etc.

[yorkie_chris]

Aye, that was the issue following the handgun ban. Firearms related crime rose when the ban came into force, no political party has ever dared to comment on that one on the record!


As an aside, the rules on a Xbow are sooo flimsy in relation to thier power (till someone uses one in anger i suppose then they will ban them too), the 12 foot pound rule on the air rifle was due to some government think tank working out that above that might actually stand a chance of killing you if shot accidently rather than on purpose.........

(Also i hope i'm not offending anyone)

Be hard to regulate a crossbow, the target ones need lethal power to be worth using for targets. They'll probably ban them, sneak it in the last 10 minutes of the news when there's something about jade goody on the other channel.

Why do you hope you're not offending anyone? The people who don't like weapons are all whinging lefties anyway, and who cares what they think.

[Dangerous Dave]

The government can ban whatever they like, it will never work and be enforced fully.

[Red Herring]

Wrong, quite wrong. I used to have an 18" barrelled pump shotgun on my firearms certificate. then again I used to have a H&K 91 in 7.62, Lee Enfield No IV in 7.62, Ruger Redhawk .44", Colt .45", S&W .357", Star 9mm,Winchester plinker in .22", Unique .22" pistol, Anchutz .22 Rifle. Most of which are illegal to own these days.

The length of the barrel is only relevant in defining the type of licence needed to own it. On a shotgun licence the barrel can't be less than 22". If it is then it is a Sect 1 firearm and needs the appropriate licence. The main difference is that a shotgun licence is relatively easy to get, a Sect 1 isn't. Machine guns, or anything capable of automatic fire (one pull on the trigger=lots of bullets) are classified as prohibited weapons in the UK so no you can't get a licence for one.....unfortunately!

[Dangerous Dave]

Machine guns, or anything capable of automatic fire (one pull on the trigger=lots of bullets) are classified as prohibited weapons in the UK so no you can't get a licence for one.....unfortunately!
You do get a nice little blue card to carry one in public if you are in certain segments of the military. ;)

[yorkie_chris]

Speaking of FAC shotguns... practical shotgun looks entertaining.

[Red Herring]

You do get a nice little blue card to carry one in public if you are in certain segments of the military. ;)

Yeah but look at what you have to give up, the ability to be able to talk to someone just for starters.....

[Dangerous Dave]

Yeah but look at what you have to give up, the ability to be able to talk to someone just for starters.....
Only if you wander about with a rifle, about 80% of the year I am issued with a pistol which is a lot easier to carry and conceal.

[timwilky]

Speaking of FAC shotguns... practical shotgun looks entertaining.

yup that was why I had the 18"

Practical pistol was also fun.

[yorkie_chris]

Are pistols still legal on the isle of man? I heard about some lads from there buying up tonnes of cheap pistol ammo just before the ban. Bit of a long way to go just to go to the range, but f##k it there's the mountain too lol.

[Dangerous Dave]

Pretty sure they are similar to the mainland now Chris.

[Red Herring]

Only if you wander about with a rifle, about 80% of the year I am issued with a pistol which is a lot easier to carry and conceal.

We clearly move in different circles and have different priorities......

[tinpants]

Only if you wander about with a rifle, about 80% of the year I am issued with a pistol which is a lot easier to carry and conceal.

Why, Dave, is that a pistol in your pocket, or are you just pleased to see me?!!! :smt040:smt072

[MoDaddy]

you are total right the farmer does have a right to shoot dogs that are worrying livestock.

Most interesting- the difference between GB and the States regarding 'gun control' and 'use of force'.

Currently on SVriders.com forum we have a heated thread about whether or not it's justified in shooting someone intent on stealing your motorcycle.

In the States, if you shoot a person and you can successfully plead 'self-defense', it is very likely that you will go home a free man (or woman).

If you shoot a dog or cat, you will most definitely pay a huge fine and likely go to prison. Regardless of the temperment, history or capabilities of the most ferocious domestic animal, no civilian is allowed to harm them in any way.

[Dangerous Dave]

We clearly move in different circles and have different priorities......
Which circle do you move in then?

[yorkie_chris]

In the States, if you shoot a person and you can successfully plead 'self-defense', it is very likely that you will go home a free man (or woman).

It's supposed to be the same here, except that carrying or owning a gun for the purpose of defense is illegal.