View Full Version : What do you do when the student becomes the teacher?
Yeah yeah, unfortunately I'm not referring to that wonderful cliche of martial arts movies whereby the student surpasses the master.:rolleyes:
I'm talking about when you are in a lecture at Uni and have a lecturer who not only pauses a numerous points in an explaination, wipes half of it off the board muttering something about "no, that's wrong" and re-writing it with no further explaination, but also states information as fact that is either, misleading, so out of date to have been proved untrue or is just simply, blatently wrong.
Also whose delivery of these lectures leave 99% of the class (aprox 35 people) confused or in a state of misunderstanding; leading to one student (who actually seems to 'get it') to end up on the phone for hours guiding many of the others. Ending up, once the first assignment had been set, running a few 'informal study groups' in the library to help out a significant number of completely baffled students (who are not dumb by any means, just totally at a loss through the lecturer's poor relating of the subject).
Written proof has now been gained of this lecturer's use of incorrect information - even the references she'd said she'd used have supported the fact she's wrong! But, what do you do with it?:confused:
In her defence she is trying to teach genetics, which is not the easiest of subjects by any means, and nor is it her speciality. But surely you should at least keep up with the fast moving nature of the subject and do some research into what you are teaching every now and then?
By the way - her main inconsistencies with the real world are with the nature of the mechanisms of the genetic control of coat colour in horses...
... hey - they say there is always someone else on the Org who knows something informative on any given subject...
... I challenge you! :twisted:
Well it's like this...
No sorry that's not what I meant...
I have no idea.
But that really does sound like the tutor has been thrown in at the deep end due to having covered that subject somewhere in the past. Was she standing in for someone or does she actually teach that topic? Either way a bit of a shambles really. I'd make an informal enquiry as to why she was teaching a topic she was out of date with. If the answer comes back she teaches this all the time, I'd go further and make it a formal complaint. If she was indeed standing in for someone, I would mention maybe she no longer has the skills in that particular subject to do so.
All University courses should have Course Representatives elected from the student body, and these should meet regularly with the Course Leader (or Course Director) in formal minuted meetings. In the first instance, your Course Rep(s) should seek a private and informal meeting with the relevant Lecturer and express the class's concern, but if no resolution is achieved, then the matter can be taken up formally at the relevant course committee meeting. What you shouldn't do is nothing.
jimmy__riddle
14-12-08, 09:36 AM
sounds like she shouldnt be the one lecturing that course. there will be another academic who is an expert in that subject, find them, and get them to explain it, and explain to them that no one understands the lecture course.
definately let the people on charge know asap.
I had a lecturer who was extremely boring and quiet, to the point where no one listened. we had feedback forms at the end of the semester. next semester he cam back nearly in tears as a result of what we put (all 1/5) but now he is a better lecturer than ever as he knew he had to improve
Alpinestarhero
14-12-08, 10:05 AM
I would talk with another elcturer and ask them to have a word with that lecturer and get them to either
1) quit their job
2) go back and learn everything
3) get some well organised notes; they may just be unorganised
missyburd
14-12-08, 11:46 AM
Hmm I can empathize with you enormously here! I have had this problem this year but for slightly different reasons, my lecturer had the course "dumped" on him because the previous lecturer retired early, meaning this new fella was making the powerpoints the morning before the lecture... Typically the vast majority of what he was trying to get across to us was stats and calculus which involved a lot of board writing and this kept being rubbed out as he kept getting it wrong. It didn't help that his writing was virtually illegible (for e.g. his q's were g's :confused:) and he had a very thick Spanish accent so everything was being pronounced differently. You spent more time concentrating on what he was actually saying than what he was talking about, not good. Nobody had a clue what he was on about and we will be mostly relying on textbooks this Christmas :(
The only good thing about this lecturer is he does listen to you and actually dedicated a lecture slot to a post-it note exercise where we all had to write bad points about his lectures and how they could be improved, however I think he was just trying too hard. He's one of those guys you just want to hug which doesn't help either!
Anyway sorry I rambled on a bit there. I'm the last person to comment on genetics, I HATE it with a passion, only module I failed in first year :rolleyes: I steer well clear of anything mentioning genes and DNA :lol:
Does sound interesting though if applied to something vaguely intriguing like horses in your case, I just got so sick of fruitflies and peas :rolleyes:
Hope you find a way around it. A*'s idea of chatting to the lecturer sounds like a plan, she may have no idea how the lot of you actually feel about her lecturing, or just not sure how to go about rectifying the situation. Communication is definitely the way forward :) If we hadn't constantly pointed out the fact we couldn't read what our lecturer was writing etc. then he just wouldn't have got the hint. Eventually we managed to persuade him to make handouts of the maths he was trying to work out, saves us and him a lot of bother!
gettin2dizzy
14-12-08, 12:49 PM
You're a student! ... Protest! ;)
You're a student! ... Protest! ;)
IIRC, that involves several meetings/demo's in the pub first. Sounds like a plan to me!
*apologies for not having much constructive on the thread, been a long while since I was a student.
missyburd
14-12-08, 01:35 PM
You're a student! ... Protest! ;)
Thought it was mostly hippies who protest? We don't get much of that at our uni, how boring! :rolleyes: :p
JediGoat
14-12-08, 01:40 PM
Call me odd....but I loved the genetics part of my degree. I was rubbish at it, but I loved it ;)
Sounds like she's getting her qualitative and quantitative theories mixed up.
And anyway...part of learning genetics is to get part way through an explanation and then say, "Hang on....I got that entire bit wrong...let's start again". You don't expect it so much from the lecturers though :D
Jo
Is the answer 3...no 4. Hang on it's blue, the answer is blue isn't it?
Am I helping?
ArtyLady
14-12-08, 02:02 PM
Just glad Im studying the Arts, never did understand maths or science ;)
The OU is great because although you have a tutor and (in some courses) online/face to face tutorials, it is possible to study completely by yourself from the course materials provided. :cool:
I managed a distinction in my first Creative writing course without attending a single tutorial.
gettin2dizzy
14-12-08, 02:09 PM
I'd be more concerned that if she can't get it right... what's the exam going to be like?
on yer bike
14-12-08, 02:13 PM
I'd be more concerned that if she can't get it right... what's the exam going to be like?
I agree, I've got similar trouble with one of my lecturers, and I'm worried that I'd get stuff marked wrong if I do it correctly, so do I do it the lecturers way, or the right way?
Let me guess, you're at the University that was previously known as Nene College?????:rolleyes:
missyburd
14-12-08, 02:30 PM
I agree, I've got similar trouble with one of my lecturers, and I'm worried that I'd get stuff marked wrong if I do it correctly, so do I do it the lecturers way, or the right way?
In that case maybe a good thing to do is attempt a past paper question, take it to the lecturer and see what he/she thinks, then you may get a rough idea of what he's looking for. Unfortunately my problem lecturer is setting 3 exam questions for the first time so there is nothing for us to look at from previous years, great :rolleyes:
MYC what are you studying?
gettin2dizzy
14-12-08, 02:35 PM
In that case maybe a good thing to do is attempt a past paper question, take it to the lecturer and see what he/she thinks, then you may get a rough idea of what he's looking for. Unfortunately my problem lecturer is setting 3 exam questions for the first time so there is nothing for us to look at from previous years, great :rolleyes:
I had this when they redesigned the whole course. Great :rolleyes:
missyburd
14-12-08, 02:37 PM
MYC what are you studying?
Zoology :)
I had this when they redesigned the whole course. Great :rolleyes:
The prats #shakes fist# :p
gettin2dizzy
14-12-08, 02:39 PM
It just shows you though, when you're relying on past papers. You aren't learning the material. You're learning the exams.
yorkie_chris
14-12-08, 02:41 PM
Always at least one f##king useless lecturer you have to put up with.
We have one for a materials course. Last year he did an impression of a table, and some wierd kata type martial arts moves... He's proper wierd.
Zoology :)
:p
whatogy???? I'm intrigued, what is it about? (I want to say watching animals in Zoo's but I'm sure it's not!!:p)
missyburd
14-12-08, 02:59 PM
It just shows you though, when you're relying on past papers. You aren't learning the material. You're learning the exams.
Exactly. Tis all a farce.
whatogy???? I'm intrigued, what is it about? (I want to say watching animals in Zoo's but I'm sure it's not!!:p)
Lol, you wouldn't believe the number of people who seem to be convinced all I aspire to do is clean up giraffe crap :rolleyes: :p
Zoology is basically the study of animals, how they work and behave. Tis very interesting but hard work.
Was she standing in for someone or does she actually teach that topic? Either way a bit of a shambles really. I'd make an informal enquiry as to why she was teaching a topic she was out of date with. If the answer comes back she teaches this all the time, I'd go further and make it a formal complaint.
the original lecturere is off with stress - but has been for the past couple of years - which is how long this current one has been 'teaching' the subject. She's one of teh Animal Welfare lecturers, so knows a bit, but seems to be relating the rest from a set of notes she's been given and never questioned or researched herself.
All University courses should have Course Representatives elected from the student body, and these should meet regularly with the Course Leader (or Course Director) in formal minuted meetings. In the first instance, your Course Rep(s) should seek a private and informal meeting with the relevant Lecturer and express the class's concern, but if no resolution is achieved, then the matter can be taken up formally at the relevant course committee meeting. What you shouldn't do is nothing.
We've already mentioned the confusion issues and problems with her simply relating the subject to our course tutor... but the next main rep meeting thing isn't until the middle of next term.
At the time they had the one for last term we were still at the stage of being lecturered on Miosis and Mitosis... which was fairly straight forward and understood - so nothing was really mentioned other than her being a bit on the nutty side! ;)
I'd be more concerned that if she can't get it right... what's the exam going to be like?
This is our main worry - the assignment we've just handed in is fairly heavily weighted and was basically a series of five questions. Now if you answered them to the letter of her lecture handouts you'd have about a 700 word assignment that in some parts was techically wrong.
If you did your own research and found the flaws in her teaching you'd end up with a 2000 word assignment that you knew was technically right. :roll:
The only thing I've been pinning my hopes on is that I have well researched references from books and up-to-date scientific journals to back-up my answers.
Still - I'm trepidatiously interested in what kind of marks I'll get back.
Let me guess, you're at the University that was previously known as Nene College?????:rolleyes:
Nah - University of Northampton are the ones that validate my degree course, but all our lectures etc take place at Moulton College just outside town.
Zoology is basically the study of animals, how they work and behave. Tis very interesting but hard work.
Sounds cool, but I guess because it's a broad subject area that's why you got stuck with fruit-flys and peas. ;)
Though I'm doing an Equine Management degree (which, like you, makes many think all I do is learn how to shovel horse doodoo, it's Management I tells 'em - I learn how to tell other people how to shovel doodoo! ;)) our Breeding and Genetics lectures are attended by the Equines (us), Agrigs (Agriculture students who smell worse than us ;)) and Rurals (Conservation and Rural studies... tree hugging hippies :smt019). So we generally cover a little of something from all areas.
Most of the other lots stuff is fairly simple (but she [the lecturer] still manages to fluff it up :roll:), but horse coat colour is apparently one of the most difficult areas to understand...
... seems straight forward enough to me. :smt115 It follows rules, and has set exceptions. But this is the area where we now have documented evidence of her 'facts' being incorrect.
It's no longer a case of a poor teaching style - which could be worked around - but of being taught things that are wrong, or so out of date that they have been since prooved incorrect.
One thing is that her boss - the manager for the Animal Welfare courses and modules - used to do the same job for Equine and was actually our first year tutor last year. I was thinking that perhaps she's a good one to approach as she is still on good terms with us all - even after havign abandoned us for cats and dogs ;).
Plus she takes us for our Microbiology lectures.
missyburd
14-12-08, 03:48 PM
This is our main worry - the assignment we've just handed in is fairly heavily weighted and was basically a series of five questions. Now if you answered them to the letter of her lecture handouts you'd have about a 700 word assignment that in some parts was techically wrong.
We've just handed in an 800 word assignment for this Spanish fella that no-one had a clue about as he was asking for us to give an answer based on opinion which is a steep request when you have to back everything up with references and yet not make it look like a review :-s He used another lecture slot to give us "feedback" and basically telling us we'd all pretty much got 2:2s for it, fabulous :rolleyes:
The only thing I've been pinning my hopes on is that I have well researched references from books and up-to-date scientific journals to back-up my answers.
Still - I'm trepidatiously interested in what kind of marks I'll get back.
At least you'll get them back, we hardly ever get feedback or marks back before the end of the year, if at all, so a lot of people are probably still making the same mistakes in first year, how the hell are you supposed to improve on anything? Gah. I don't mind referencing as it's one thing I can actually do well, and like you its what I bank on haha.
Sounds cool, but I guess because it's a broad subject area that's why you got stuck with fruit-flys and peas. ;)
Though I'm doing an Equine Management degree (which, like you, makes many think all I do is learn how to shovel horse doodoo, it's Management I tells 'em - I learn how to tell other people how to shovel doodoo! ;)) our Breeding and Genetics lectures are attended by the Equines (us), Agrigs (Agriculture students who smell worse than us ;)) and Rurals (Conservation and Rural studies... tree hugging hippies :smt019). So we generally cover a little of something from all areas.
Yep same here, first year was just getting everyone up to the same level in theory, so a bit of everything as you say. Seems to be a little more specialized now which is better.
Most of the other lots stuff is fairly simple (but she [the lecturer] still manages to fluff it up :roll:), but horse coat colour is apparently one of the most difficult areas to understand...
I remember doing genetics in cat hair colour lol...just before I nodded off :p
Plus she takes us for our Microbiology lectures.
Ah good old Microbiology....glorious cell cultures and bacteria ... :rolleyes:
ArtyLady
14-12-08, 04:11 PM
As it is a heavily weighted assignment if definately needs to be sorted out! Can your course tutor raise the issue with the course team/powers that be?
Have you tried actually talking to the problematic lecturer yourself?
It may seem odd but some people have no idea how they come across and would actually welcome some feedback. In my experience, in the first instance, this can actually work out better than going straight to a boss or manager. This can too easily set up a 'them and us' situation. I've seen it work, when students actually to a teacher and say that they don't get the teaching style and offer a couple of practical solutions for a better way of doing it.
Teaching can be a lonely and stressful job; getting her into trouble may not help. I'm guessing that this lecturer would be better than none.
Of course, if you've tried this already and it's had no results, then the matter should be taken, constructively if possible, to the person next up the chain.
Good luck
Have you tried actually talking to the problematic lecturer yourself?
First thing we did.
It was tried in a number of differing ways by a few of the students (just to prove that it wasn't just us 'Equines' that were having trouble. Generally she was approached by the mature students, as we seemed to be better able to be diplomatic about it... but to no real effect.
When it is just a case of her altering notes/stuff on the board/etc wne she is asked to explain why she has changed something and how it fits in with our understanding of what she had previously put - we generally get an exasperated look and she'll move on to the next bit on her notes.:roll:
As for attempting to point out an actual error - ooooh that was, well, interesting. After being talked to like we were disruptive little kiddies and then being told to do some research... and after it politely being mentioned that the research had already been done which was why a suspected error was being highlighted...
... she denies there is a problem and simply states that the new information being offered to her is "not how it was explained to me!"
Surely a lecturer should be saying that it was not what they knew rather than saying it was not as explained to them?[-o<
I do feel for her though. It's a large group and a difficult subject - and if I were her and heard even a small percentage of the complaits or cries of frustrated comfusion that are offered over lunch - I'd be mortified that I'd sent my students on their way in such a state. Professional pride and all that.
But it gets embarassing when, in our tutorial sessions, I try to hide behind my rucksack once the subject gets raised by the rest, complaints then get heated, amid calls for me to replace her teaching the lectures. :oops:
Ceri JC
15-12-08, 11:59 AM
All University courses should have Course Representatives elected from the student body, and these should meet regularly with the Course Leader (or Course Director) in formal minuted meetings. In the first instance, your Course Rep(s) should seek a private and informal meeting with the relevant Lecturer and express the class's concern, but if no resolution is achieved, then the matter can be taken up formally at the relevant course committee meeting. What you shouldn't do is nothing.
+1
100% correct. I was course representative for 3 years and dealt with exactly this sort of thing. Find out who your course representative is and talk to them about it, explaining your grievance. The students union ought to be able to tell you who it is/if you have one. If it transpires you don't have one, volunteer for the job yourself, it's not very difficult or particularly time consuming and looks good on your CV.
Ideally make the complaint with the support of several other students, showing it's not just you as an individual not liking the lecturer for personal reasons/being too stupid to understand them, etc.
SoulKiss
15-12-08, 12:51 PM
Cut them in half with your lightsaber, then pick a Padawan/Apprentice of your own and rule the galaxy.
Or, you could just declare them broken and hit them with a hammer (or maybe, more fitting in this case, a hamster)
I'm just going to stick with 'Huh?' on this one.
Cut them in half with your lightsaber, then pick a Padawan/Apprentice of your own and rule the galaxy.
Or, you could just declare them broken and hit them with a hammer (or maybe, more fitting in this case, a hamster)
Considering my taste in films and books... I don't actually have a lightsabre - they've never made a real on see - I couldn't own anything substandard! ;)
However, the hammer option has actually been considered on occasion. :twisted:
I'm just going to stick with 'Huh?' on this one.
Strangely enough - that's the response of many students, more than once, during any of her lectures.;)
Strangely enough - that's the response of many students, more than once, during any of her lectures.;)
In that case I'm going to replace it with Giggety.
In that case I'm going to replace it with Giggety.
Ooooh - now that would be a new comment... trust me - 'Moose' doesn't even begin to cut it. :twisted:
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