Question about push-bikes...

[vixis]

...now, I'm a placid person (sort of) - I just dont like being surprised.

Question - Would the rider be liable if their pillion (me) punched a guy trying to slide past us to go thru a red light? He got within mm of touching me, scared the hell out of me and caused SK to stop (pee'ing the people off behind him) to wait for the ***** to move before he could.

Just a thought.

[jambo]

remember there's almost never a conviction without a body...


Just a thought...

[fizzwheel]

I dont know how that would work. I wander if it would be classed as a non motoring offence ( IIRC from what I've read on the push bike forum a cyclist is classed as a pedestrian ) so it may well end up being a matter for a civil court. In which case I dont see how the rider would be liable. But the pillion might be as it might get classed as assault or something similar.

I'm no legal expert so I may have this completely wrong.... However as a cyclist, the cyclist that did that do you and Soulkiss this morning is a f*cking tw*t and deserves a good punch in the face, its morons like that, that give the law abiding cyclists out there a bad name.

[SoulKiss]

He really did just come from no-where - and I had positioned myself in a way to stop that from happening - as it is all to common for cyclists to do this in London.

The other day (the one where Fizz had the Ped incident) I got cut up by one cyclist where I had to brake reasonably hard and just missed his rear wheel by millimeters - didnt post about that due to the timing.

Of course the worst ones are the Cyclists on iPods..... :):):):):)

[fizzwheel]

I've read about it so many times on cyclng forums and in the press where cyclists whinge about almost being squashed by cars and lorries where they've moronically gone down the left hand side of them and then they get trapped when the vehcile they've gone down the left hand side of then turns left across them.

[SoulKiss]

I've read about it so many times on cyclng forums and in the press where cyclists whinge about almost being squashed by cars and lorries where they've moronically gone down the left hand side of them and then they get trapped when the vehcile they've gone down the left hand side of then turns left across them.

I put it all down to lack of training tbh.

I know that there are many arguments against it - bring in mandatory training and you stop kids from getting out on their bikes etc, but the cycle lanes in London do nothing for cyclists.

They encourage them to hug the kerb, then when it comes to a right turn they have to make their way across up to 3 lanes of traffic to be in the right position.

This leads to the often seen event of a cyclist turning right at controlled junction from the extreme left of the left hand lane.

One of the best ones I saw (as a pedestrian approaching a crossing) were 2 cyclists in a bus lane, with a car coming past them on their right, but indicating to turn left, across them.

They knew that the car was turning across, and by the way he accelerated past them it was obvious that he didn't intend to stop and let them have the right of way (which they had). Instead of just slowing and letting the car go, they sped up and cut the car off, and hurled abuse at the guy who was now sitting across 2 lanes, blocking traffic.

Yes, they were in the right, but that doesn't help when you get hit by a car.

And don't even ask me about the reaction I got when I stopped on a pedestrian crossing on foot and had a go at a cyclist that was running the red light - to summarise, it was ME that was in the wrong.......

[Luckypants]

Question - Would the rider be liable if their pillion (me) punched a guy trying to slide past us to go thru a red light? He got within mm of touching me, scared the hell out of me and caused SK to stop (pee'ing the people off behind him) to wait for the ***** to move before he could.

Just a thought.

Don't know about liability, but I think you should have punched him! Cyclists jumping red lights, riding on pavements etc really grind my gears. If a cyclist is riding on the pavement, I'll grab their handle bars to have them off. Then I'll claim they rode into me.... :twisted:

I dont know how that would work. I wander if it would be classed as a non motoring offence ( IIRC from what I've read on the push bike forum a cyclist is classed as a pedestrian ) ....

How can that be if you can be done for drunk driving on a bike? I know folks who have got points on their licence for riding a bike while drunk (not me!). Sounds to me like more cyclist bull**** as to why they think they are above the law.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Of course the worst ones are the Cyclists on iPods..... :):):):):)

Rubbish.



You can't cycle on an iPod.

[SoulKiss]

How can that be if you can be done for drunk driving on a bike? I know folks who have got points on their licence for riding a bike while drunk (not me!). Sounds to me like more cyclist bull**** as to why they think they are above the law.

That seems to be the problem, cyclists are somewhere between a Pedestrian and a Road User, and the laws are not consistant - if a cyclist has a driving license then they get points - but if they dont then they can't - and as you dont need to be licensed to be on the road.

I think that if a cyclist intends to be on the road they should have to do a Theory Test and a CBT equivilent. This will mean that they will at least know what the road signs mean, and they have been trained to deal with junctions and road positioning.

Hmmm theres an idea, stack copies of the Highway Code in a tankbag and then chuck them at cyclists when they break the law - wonder if they do them with a half-kilo of lead shot in the spine.........

[fizzwheel]

How can that be if you can be done for drunk driving on a bike? I know folks who have got points on their licence for riding a bike while drunk (not me!). Sounds to me like more cyclist bull**** as to why they think they are above the law.

Like I said I wasnt sure if this is the case. I agree about the cyclist bullsh*t some of us do think we are above the law. But Soulkiss' point about cycle lanes in london being rubbish is true from what I've seen, Mind you the ones near my house are just as bad and poorly positioned which is why most of the time I cycle on the road as its safer.

I think the point about education is valid as well. But alot of the people I see cycling poorly are adults who I would imagine that have driving licenses already and manage to obey the road signs / road markings etc in their cars but who seem to not be able to manage to do this when they are on bikes. I dont think CBT / Theory test would actually help in those cases what they need is a a b*ll*cking or worse from a policeman...

[blue curvy jester]

That seems to be the problem, cyclists are somewhere between a Pedestrian and a Road User, and the laws are not consistant - if a cyclist has a driving license then they get points - but if they dont then they can't - and as you dont need to be licensed to be on the road.

I think that if a cyclist intends to be on the road they should have to do a Theory Test and a CBT equivilent. This will mean that they will at least know what the road signs mean, and they have been trained to deal with junctions and road positioning.

Hmmm theres an idea, stack copies of the Highway Code in a tankbag and then chuck them at cyclists when they break the law - wonder if they do them with a half-kilo of lead shot in the spine.........

Thats right if they have a liscence they get point on it if they are not they get points on a provisional when and if they apply for it

[SoulKiss]

I dont think CBT / Theory test would actually help in those cases what they need is a a b*ll*cking or worse from a policeman...

Ah, but the upside of that would be that it would require them to have a license, which they could therefor get points on, and hence be banned.

And once banned, the Police should have the powers to seize any cycles the person is caught right there and then.

Oh and on a funny note, the other night saw a cyclist who HAD stopped at lights fall over when he had an epic fail when trying to latch his footwear onto his pedals.

[fizzwheel]

Ah, but the upside of that would be that it would require them to have a license, which they could therefor get points on, and hence be banned.

And once banned, the Police should have the powers to seize any cycles the person is caught right there and then.

True but I've got a license for two wheels already and I'm not sure how well being told I had to take another test to ride my pusher on the road would go down. ;)

Oh and on a funny note, the other night saw a cyclist who HAD stopped at lights fall over when he had an epic fail when trying to latch his footwear onto his pedals.

Trust me you have no idea how embaressing doing that is. Not that I've done it of course ;)

[SoulKiss]

True but I've got a license for two wheels already and I'm not sure how well being told I had to take another test to ride my pusher on the road would go down.

In the case of someone already having a license, then there should be no Theory Test requirement, but surely training specific to being under pedal power in traffic would be useful to have?

All I am talking about is a one-day/half day course on the lines of a CBT.

Or maybe you are right and cycling entitlement should come on all licenses.

I'm not really trying to get cyclists off the road, just have them trained to be safe on the road.

[fizzwheel]

In the case of someone already having a license, then there should be no Theory Test requirement, but surely training specific to being under pedal power in traffic would be useful to have?

I'm not so sure. I'm an experienced cyclist and a motorcyclist. I honestly dont know what else you'd teach me, althought I realise a refresher lesson might be off benefit, but then you're talking about extra cost to cover the training and if its to expensive then people wont go on it anyway. If the police struggle to keep unlicensed, un-insured drivers off our roads then IMHO they're going to struggle just as badly to deal with unlicensed cyclists. They cant police the mobile phone laws now as an example.


I'm not really trying to get cyclists off the road, just have them trained to be safe on the road.

I agree, but the trouble is is that from what I've seen those very same cyclists have car licenses and are adults that should know better, no amount of training / legislation will allow you to deal with people who are stupid IMHO.

I'm not saying this is the case but whats required here is tolerance of other road users, I've been at the end of some terrible drivnig and abuse towards me on my pushbike, I've been spat at, shouted at, had somebody try and run me off the road, my crime "riding a pushbike" Its not always the cyclists in the wrong.

I also a re think about shared cycle lanes, either shared with pedestrians or cages, they just dont work, it needs a radical rethink and that costs money and means government and local authorities putting in effort to make it happen.

I just dont see that more legislation is the way forward with this. I like the example that Poilce have been taking at one dodgy junction in Bristol, they've had a police presence on the junction and people they've been catching who are Red Light Jumping or riding on the pavements, are being stopped spoken to and told the errors on their ways and then being hit where it hurts them most in their pockets with a fine. I'd like to see more of this personally. Its the only way some people listen.

Its definately a growing problem and its not one thats going to go away, more people are cycling now due to the current economic climate and things such as the cycle to work scheme. Maybe the should build the training into that. I.e if you buy a bike on the cycle to work scheme, you get 1/2 days tuition on the basics as part of the scheme. Its IMHO people that are commuting for the first time on their pushers that are the majority of the problem I think. Welll it certainly is around my neck of the woods anyway.

[vixis]

I always thought that cyclists on the road were treated like "wheeled traffic" and as such shouldnt go through red lights. And Jambo - I couldnt eat a WHOLE one, so the remains would probably point back to me...mmmm, worth thinking about though.

I had a cyclist on the footpath turn the corner, crash into me (nearly spraining my wrist, which took the impact) and THEN started abusing me - I was totally gobsmacked!

[Viney]

Rubbish.



You can't cycle on an iPod.Well done FS, you made me chuckle :)

Why epople get so wound up about these things in london, beats me. Its going to happen, so get over it and go and live in the country if you dont like it. I had a scooter rider stand on my foot the other day! Yes i wanted to push him over, but couldnt be a*sed to raise the effort!

[Foey]

Like I said I wasnt sure if this is the case. I agree about the cyclist bullsh*t some of us do think we are above the law.

As do some motorcyclists, car drivers, truckers etc so i wouldn't worry too much about it.

I personally feel that anyone who uses any form of transport on a public highway, be it car, motorbike, pushbike, mobility buggy or horse should have to take a test & have insurance, as for inconsiderate cyclists, yes there are some that are totally thick or ignorant but there are a lot more that are responsible people as with us motorcyclists, if i see a cyclist on the footpath i will purposely walk in the centre of the path, they either stop or hit me, then i point out to them that the cycle path is on the other f*****g side of the road.

What p's me off more than anything is the electric buggy drivers who zip along footpaths at 25mph & expect you to jump off the path into the road just because they think you should, half of them don't honestly even need to be in a buggy it's just because they are too fat & idle to get off their ar5e & walk anywhere, just recently i've seen two people puishing their buggies along because they have run out of charge, now if they can push one surely they don't need one, i'd love to get a stinger & run across the path with it when one comes along. :twisted:

[vixis]

Well done FS, you made me chuckle :)

Why epople get so wound up about these things in london, beats me. Its going to happen, so get over it and go and live in the country if you dont like it. I had a scooter rider stand on my foot the other day! Yes i wanted to push him over, but couldnt be a*sed to raise the effort!

:confused:...so you are saying that people should just be rude and dangerous just because its a big city? Politeness cost nothing and in this case, could save someone's life - I do my darnest (being pillion is a lot easier though I hasten to add) to be polite to people and manners goes a long way in my book.

[Viney]

:confused:...so you are saying that people should just be rude and dangerous just because its a big city? Politeness cost nothing and in this case, could save someone's life - I do my darnest (being pillion is a lot easier though I hasten to add) to be polite to people and manners goes a long way in my book.I agree with you there, but why should you go down for assult because some muppet wants to jump a red light. Yes its all wrong, but for everyone you **** there will be another 100 or so that do the same thing! Same with mobile phones, lorry dirvers not looking where they are going so on and so forth. People will always be rude and dangerous. I am sure that not one person on here that rides a motorcycle has never done anything dangerous at least once! I just think that we as a group, motorbike riders all stand on our high horses saying they do this they do that, and to be honest, we are not exactly law abiding! These cyclists yes, i agree need thier heads sorting out, but one day they will do it and become a cropper. It wont stop them doing it for sure and why should you as a person get a criminal record for assult for the privalage? So no, i dont agree that people should be rude or dangerous, but its thier funeral

[Spiderman]

Hey Vixis....surley you were just having a bit of a stretch as you pulled up to the lights and the fact that your outstretched arm happened to clothesline a total a-hole is neither here or there right?

In fact he should have watched where he was going and you have a claim against him for personal injury since his adams apple caught you squarley on the elbow, right?
:twisted:

[Lozzo]

...now, I'm a placid person (sort of) - I just dont like being surprised.

Question - Would the rider be liable if their pillion (me) punched a guy trying to slide past us to go thru a red light? He got within mm of touching me, scared the hell out of me and caused SK to stop (pee'ing the people off behind him) to wait for the ***** to move before he could.

Just a thought.

You should thump him in the head purely for buying something without an engine.

[tomjones2]

Seriouly people need to chill, I cycle every day and I use pavements sometimes and jump red pedestian crossings when there is no one on them or going to be on them. But always when its safe, and I do look. It drives me round the bend when I see cyclist doing dangerous things, the ammount of cyclists who dont do a shoulder check is riddiculous. There is also a big diffrence between charging down a pavement at 15 and going carefully at 5.

Just for the records the only incidents that I have ever had when I have been squessed by people trying to overtake, hence why I now cycle on quite bits of roads and use some pedestian bit as well. Its much safer for me.

Funny but the whole motorcyclists getting cross because a cyclist has jumping red light thing sounds a little like car driver getting cross because bikers jump queues. I have noramally find these are the same bikers who take up the whole cycle area (which is legally for push-bikes only) and then force cyclists to start cycling from the right hand side of the road.

Its not that I'm anti bike, I love bikes but seriouly as a group we (motorcyclists) do enough dangerous stuff and smile about it. A bit more of understanding from both sides would go well. And like people say you should have to ride a motorbike before taking a car test everyone should have to ride a push-bike down a busy road before getting any sort of licence.

[yorkie_chris]

How hard did you smack him? Any teeth embedded in knuckles etc. or did you hit him right?

No sympathy, for a start, cyclists wear lycra, and that really shouldn't be seen in public. For another thing if you'd have knocked the silly f##ker off, he'd have a fair chance of a claim on you, you'd have nowt because they don't have insurance.

So, important thing, did he get your number plate? If so, how common is your riding gear? Seems to me to be more common assault than anything else, so unless you've got the only example of a particular jacket in the country then you should be fine.
Chances are he won't have made a complaint anyway, but if he does then CCTV is a worry.

[Jayneflakes]

I think that if a cyclist intends to be on the road they should have to do a Theory Test and a CBT equivilent. This will mean that they will at least know what the road signs mean, and they have been trained to deal with junctions and road positioning.

Now what with me being Devils Advocate...

I am a qualified Mountain Bike Instructor and I like this idea, I could earn a fortune.

It often horrifies me when I see cyclists riding at night with no lights or reflectors, often in Dark clothing and even the wrong way along a one way street.

As I have posted before I work in a bike shop and I recently had the urine extracted because I have fitted wheel reflectors to my road bike, I have a fluro Orange cycing jacket and shock upon shock, I have lights on my bike... This Urine Extraction was undertaken by another cycle mechanic who claims that my bike has a Dashboard (?) and there for weighs more than it needs to. Luckily for me, I was not the one hit by a car riding the wrong way down a one way street, while wearing dark clothing and not showing a light recently.

I feel that the training I had to pass my CBT was well thought out and most of it made sense, the thought of having a similar sort of training for cyclists could be rather useful. Then I got into a relationship with a single parent and acquired a step son who wanted to cycle to school.

The school insist that pupils who wish to cycle to school must have suitable training and wear a helmet. The training was provided by a specialist group (maybe Sus-Trans could be involved?) and he had to prove that he knew how to ride on busy roads and not be a danger to himself or other road users.

One other point though, it hardly matters how much training we have as cyclists, we are still quite often the victims of poor planning. Modern cycle ways are often badly surfaced with slippery paint, contain illegally parked vehicles and rubbish and are so blatantly designed by non cyclists. There have been a few where it was safer to ride in busy traffic than use the permitted (and dangerously designed) cycle way. One in Plymouth crosses the slipways to the A38 on four occasions with in 500 metres and cuts up all other road users. How no one has been hurt on it, I will never know!

[northwind]

He really did just come from no-where - and I had positioned myself in a way to stop that from happening

Obviously not very well :mrgreen:

Some cyclists are knobs. They tend to get driven over eventually. TBH this all seems a bit disproportionate for this guy here, but I'm not sure I followed the description right... Were you stopped when he passed you?

[SoulKiss]

Obviously not very well :mrgreen:

Some cyclists are knobs. They tend to get driven over eventually. TBH this all seems a bit disproportionate for this guy here, but I'm not sure I followed the description right... Were you stopped when he passed you?

Was not much more than a fag-paper in it being done well or not........