View Full Version : Honda Blackbird
Alpinestarhero
20-12-08, 03:50 PM
Has anyone got one / had one / know anything about them? What are the known issues? I think I like them.
Matt
stretchie
&
baldyman
a bit big and ugly for my liking
(no not stretchie and baldyman, the bike)
Alpinestarhero
20-12-08, 03:56 PM
lol cheers hovis, maybe they'll pop along. Yea they do seem a bit big, but then the SV is a longish stretch (compared to some other bikes) so I'm not worried about that. I like the idea of a big engine and the bike being suited to touring as well as being sporty and beeerrrrrllllluuuuudddddeeeee fast. Maria should be comfy on the back too
I'd like a honda VFR.....but theres something holding me back from one of them. I dunno what it is. blackbird feels more right.....
lol cheers hovis, maybe they'll pop along. Yea they do seem a bit big, but then the SV is a longish stretch (compared to some other bikes) so I'm not worried about that. I like the idea of a big engine and the bike being suited to touring as well as being sporty and beeerrrrrllllluuuuudddddeeeee fast. Maria should be comfy on the back too
I'd like a honda VFR.....but theres something holding me back from one of them. I dunno what it is. blackbird feels more right.....
insurance might be a bit steep?
stretchie seems to like his:p
*cough SP1 cough*
Alpinestarhero
20-12-08, 04:00 PM
Yea, insurance will be a killer...but then it'll be a killer on whatever bike I would like.
mmmm SP1 / SP2...
....no...no, i couldnt have one, I'd end up with a broken back becasue I just wouldnt be able to put on a topbox to carry my stuff. not on an SP2
maybe as a second bike in 5 years
My dads got one.
Doesn't complain about it much... ;)
yorkie_chris
20-12-08, 04:20 PM
I've had a go, very very quick, nice and smooth. Handles OK, does everything you want.
rictus01
20-12-08, 04:34 PM
ABS & LINKED BRAKES.........:smt043
Essex of Essex
20-12-08, 04:48 PM
A mate has one he finds that it throws a lot of weight on the wrists, he rides in all weathers and all year round on his Pan as an instructor so it's a big change of posture, it wouldn't be so bad from an SV-s I think.
Dangerous Dave
20-12-08, 05:03 PM
Lovely bikes, nice smooth engine with low down power, very comfortable (that depends on the rider), and handles very well considering the type of machine it is. Genuine consumables are pricey, same with any Honda, and the build quality is great although it is not one of Honda's best.
it has toooooooooooooo much power for you ,therefore you are not allowed to have one
unless you promiss to stay behind me
it has toooooooooooooo much power for you ,therefore you are not allowed to have one
unless you promiss to stay behind me
he could not stay behind you on a 33bhp sv, so he will have no chance on the blackbird;)
he could not stay behind you on a 33bhp sv, so he will have no chance on the blackbird;)
pistols at dawn:smt072
wyrdness
20-12-08, 05:23 PM
I've never ridden one, but they're one of the few Hondas that I wouldn't mind owning, though the linked brakes puts me off, somewhat. They've been around for a good few years are getting a bit long in the tooth now, but I still think that they look good. They're reckoned to be excellent long distance mile munchers, 'hypertourer is the word that they use.
Some people even put top-boxes on them.
Alpinestarhero
20-12-08, 05:50 PM
Linked Bakes....hmmmm
Topbox...HmmmmmMMMM!!!
Gid.....:smt019
I forgot about the linked brakes, although it cant be too bad right? Mind you, I do sometimes only use the rear brake at certain points (i.e. braking when filtering and there is a nice shiny bit of unavoidable metal work in my path) so having a front brake still working in some capacity when I want to avoid the wheel locking up by not using it would make me nervous
Hmmm
VFR's do linked brakes aswell though dont they?
I still like the blackbird
Dangerous Dave
20-12-08, 05:53 PM
Mind you, I do sometimes only use the rear brake at certain points (i.e. braking when filtering and there is a nice shiny bit of unavoidable metal work in my path) so having a front brake still working in some capacity when I want to avoid the wheel locking up by not using it would make me nervous
Using the rear brake only uses very little of the front brake, it works stronger the other way around.
VFR's do linked brakes aswell though dont they?
Aye
Alpinestarhero
20-12-08, 05:56 PM
Aye
Ah, so really then I should just neglected the linked-brake fact and get on with deciding which one i want to purchase and when.
blackbird....yummy
Absolutely love mine- dead comfy position for a tall person, easy to ride, ridiculously smooth engine makes everything else feel like a diesel, the linked brakes are really quite good if you are incompetent like me. Get an early carbed one- more power - not that you need it and mpg better apparently though mine is pretty thirsty. Bought it as short term measure as I was going to buy a new bike in summer, but couldnt find anything I liked better. They are pretty heavy but never found this a problem as the weight disappears once you get moving. Totally suitable for a learner bike in my opinion as they are so easy to ride and it will do around 190mph which is nice.
ThEGr33k
20-12-08, 06:10 PM
VFR because it does all the same things looks better... and with a Zorst sunds a LOT better :D
Alpinestarhero
20-12-08, 06:14 PM
Absolutely love mine- dead comfy position for a tall person, easy to ride, ridiculously smooth engine makes everything else feel like a diesel, the linked brakes are really quite good if you are incompetent like me. Get an early carbed one- more power - not that you need it and mpg better apparently though mine is pretty thirsty. Bought it as short term measure as I was going to buy a new bike in summer, but couldnt find anything I liked better. They are pretty heavy but never found this a problem as the weight disappears once you get moving. Totally suitable for a learner bike in my opinion as they are so easy to ride and it will do around 190mph which is nice.
Cheers for that, was quite informative :D I'll probably go for a fuel injected 'bird if i ever got one, just for the convinience when cold-starting. I'm not too fussed about weight, my SV isn't exactly light-weight either with the stuff I carry about.
Wonder where i can get a test ride
You can de-link the brakes if it's an issue with a £100 kit but most opinions are that the brakes are best left alone. Only issues are cam chain tensioners rattle sometimes and reg/recs explode every 20k or so -its a Honda so pretty reliable.
Dangerous Dave
20-12-08, 06:21 PM
VFR....
....with a Zorst sunds a LOT better :D
+ 1
Alpinestarhero
20-12-08, 06:39 PM
Ah, the V4 sounds is sorted because I'll have access to a VFR400 :cool::mrgreen:
Hmmm...honda cam chains have always been something of a moot point anyway (think back to honda VF's, and there's your part-reason why honda used gear-driven camshafts for the VFR's). Reg/recs going isnt anything too bad, that can affect any bike. like an sv. (d'oh)
Been watching some youtube vids...oooo yum
ThEGr33k
20-12-08, 07:13 PM
Ah, the V4 sounds is sorted because I'll have access to a VFR400 :cool::mrgreen:
Hmmm...honda cam chains have always been something of a moot point anyway (think back to honda VF's, and there's your part-reason why honda used gear-driven camshafts for the VFR's). Reg/recs going isnt anything too bad, that can affect any bike. like an sv. (d'oh)
Been watching some youtube vids...oooo yum
Ahhh but the VFR400/750 race reps don't sound as good... It uses a 360 crank the tourer uses a 180 crank and sounds better for it ;)
It wasn't the chain that was so much the problem (I dont think?) as the chocolate cams... They forgot to harden them and things bent and broke and ouch.
Alpinestarhero
20-12-08, 07:18 PM
Ahhh but the VFR400/750 race reps don't sound as good... It uses a 360 crank the tourer uses a 180 crank and sounds better for it ;)
It wasn't the chain that was so much the problem (I dont think?) as the chocolate cams... They forgot to harden them and things bent and broke and ouch.
yea, and they made the cam chain tensioners out of the same stuff i think. My dad has a mate who brought a VF when they came out, and it ate a couple of cam-chains. Honda replaced each one free of charge because they didn't want to be see to be ignoring what was a really big issue
For good V4 sound, i need to buy an RC30 or RC45 really. mmmmm
skyline
20-12-08, 11:58 PM
Have a ganders at this months Performance Bikes as well, they've got a Blackbird tested against a Hayabusa, ZZR1400 and GSXR1000 and they were well impressed with it.
Their Blackbird had a full Akrapovic system on it which added a load of power and a lot of weight off the bike too...:D
Hmmm...honda cam chains have always been something of a moot point anyway (think back to honda VF's, and there's your part-reason why honda used gear-driven camshafts for the VFR's). Reg/recs going isnt anything too bad, that can affect any bike. like an sv. (d'oh)
yea, and they made the cam chain tensioners out of the same stuff i think. My dad has a mate who brought a VF when they came out, and it ate a couple of cam-chains. Honda replaced each one free of charge because they didn't want to be see to be ignoring what was a really big issue
It wasn't the chain that was so much the problem (I dont think?) as the chocolate cams... They forgot to harden them and things bent and broke and ouch.
+1
The 1998-2002 VFR800Fi (pre-underseat exhaust) has gear driven cams, so no cam chain issues at all. The engine is reportedly solid. I've never had a problem with mine but it's hardly high mileage. The common problem is reg/rec going on early bikes, but post 2000 version is a reliable fix. For the later bikes, Honda reverted to chain drive cams (suspicion: cost cutting) but I'm sure they learnt their lesson from the 80s VF series.
For good V4 sound, i need to buy an RC30 or RC45 really. mmmmm
My 1998 Fi-W has an RC45 series engine number. Does that count?!!! You certainly won't get V4 sound from a Blackbird.
ThEGr33k
21-12-08, 12:29 AM
+1
The 1998-2002 VFR800Fi (pre-underseat exhaust) has gear driven cams, so no cam chain issues at all. The engine is reportedly solid. I've never had a problem with mine but it's hardly high mileage. The common problem is reg/rec going on early bikes, but post 2000 version is a reliable fix. For the later bikes, Honda reverted to chain drive cams (suspicion: cost cutting) but I'm sure they learnt their lesson from the 80s VF series.
My 1998 Fi-W has an RC45 series engine number. Does that count?!!! You certainly won't get V4 sound from a Blackbird.
We ment the VF the first gen V4's... not the VFR's. ;)
Luckypants
22-12-08, 10:08 AM
All talk about Honda using nasty cam-chains on latest VFR as if it a BAD THING. All their other bikes use cam chains and everyone says how reliable Hondas are! I know of many VTEC VFRs with in excess 100K miles and no issues. Just putting a little perspective on this. :rolleyes:
ThEGr33k
22-12-08, 10:56 PM
Aye... but you cant beat the whine of gear driven cams :D
Sid Squid
23-12-08, 12:14 AM
The 'Bird is a great bike, does everything well and even though it's a hefty lump of bike it carries it very well.
The only drawback is the cost of ownership, it's a big powerful bike and big powerful bikes cost lots to run even if you don't use all the performance, unless I habitually had a need to do long distance high speed journeys, (particularly two up - something at which all such bikes excel), I'd begrudge spending all that money on performance that didn't get used.
What will you be doing with your bike? - base your buying choices on that.
My dad gets 40-55mpg out of his on long distance trips, and thats two up with 3 full big givi panniers/top box.
Not hanging around either most of the time knowing him.
The 'Bird is a great bike, does everything well and even though it's a hefty lump of bike it carries it very well.
The only drawback is the cost of ownership, it's a big powerful bike and big powerful bikes cost lots to run even if you don't use all the performance, unless I habitually had a need to do long distance high speed journeys, (particularly two up - something at which all such bikes excel), I'd begrudge spending all that money on performance that didn't get used.
What will you be doing with your bike? - base your buying choices on that.
I still want a busa. Cos it looks nice :smt019
Sid Squid
23-12-08, 11:53 AM
I still want a busa. Cos it looks nice :smt019
I've always liked the look of the 'Busa, but I feel the same way about that as the 'Bird et al: What would I do with a 160+bhp super tourer?
Well I know exactly what I'd do: Every now and again I'd point it at the horizon, twang the throttle cable and exclaim 'Bu66er me that's quick!', and the other 99.9% of time I'd go no faster than I would on a better handling smaller bike on which I spent less on tyres, chains and fuel etc.
Don't get me wrong, they're all great bikes but they're pretty pointless. Unless you really really want one and you're prepared to spend the premium running one that it will cost, I'd find it a strange choice.
Well I know exactly what I'd do: Every now and again I'd point it at the horizon, twang the throttle cable and exclaim 'Bu66er me that's quick!
I know what i'd do - every now and again i'd drop it and go "**** me thats expensive!"
yorkie_chris
23-12-08, 01:43 PM
My dad gets 40-55mpg out of his on long distance trips, and thats two up with 3 full big givi panniers/top box.
Not hanging around either most of the time knowing him.
Not just fuel, weight eats brake pads, tyres, chains etc.
St0rmer66
23-12-08, 10:55 PM
Aye... but you cant beat the whine of gear driven cams :D
Honda SP-2 is very tempting, sound lovely. The competition is an Aprilia RSV-R (00-01).
ThEGr33k
24-12-08, 12:28 AM
Honda SP-2 is very tempting, sound lovely. The competition is an Aprilia RSV-R (00-01).
TBH the aprilia will make the better road bike, less extreme and cost less to run and insure. The SP's are just race bikes with plates tbh. They both have whine of gears too, though the aprilia isnt quite as obvious as the Honda. Besides the Aprilia V60 sounds glorious, get a blue flame Evo tri oval thing on there ;) Yum yum yum.
sparkymarky
24-12-08, 03:01 PM
My mate's got one ( 98/99 vintage), and I have had a go on it a few times.
I'm 5'9" and the Blackbird feels a lot more comfortable than the SV. You seem to 'sit in' the bike rather than on top of it. As a relative novice I found it easy to ride and not intimidating, very smooth and lots of power when you give it some.
I liked the brakes and found they inspired a lot of confidence.
Generally very reliable although my mate has had an odd carb issue and reg/battery failure, other than that it has weathered the years and 55+k miles well and it sill looks good. I personally think they look quite good as well - better than say the Hayabusa.
Alpinestarhero
24-12-08, 04:57 PM
What will you be doing with your bike? - base your buying choices on that.
Two-up journeys with maria covering long distances with topbox and panniers I hope.
I'd keep the SV as my "lundun" bike :D
BTW, honda SP2's - do they have gear driven cams then? I thought honda did away with that? Or am I mis-interpreting postings :smt040
St0rmer66
24-12-08, 05:46 PM
Yes the SP-1 and SP-2 both have gear driven cams :) .
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfhpp8MRx5g
Listen to that :D .
Alpinestarhero
24-12-08, 05:52 PM
Oh my god!!! i neve ever knew that!!! i thought honda thre out gear driven cams with the VFR's!!!
well
thats me sold on an SP2 then!!!!!
St0rmer66
24-12-08, 06:04 PM
Haha, you changed your sig' and everything! :) .
The SP-1 and SP-2 were/are very special bikes though, not just a run of the mill model :) . Awesome pieces of kit. Not much difference between the SP-1 and SP-2, except for updated fuel injectors (for a less jerky throttle at low speeds) and a bit different swingarm on the SP-2. I hear a power commander can sort out the fuelling though and give better MPG (they're quite thirsty). This slight fuelling issue isn't a problem when you're on the move though, it's certainly not a deal breaker.
I'm convincing myself to get one now!
Alpinestarhero
24-12-08, 06:08 PM
Well...to be honest, if I got an SP2 (i will when i get a house of my own with maria!) I would be getting it for sunday fun only. The SV will stay on as my daily ride (and why not, its a brilliant bike!), its not a bad bike for mile munching either :mrgreen:
Plus i'll make my dad so bloody jelous when i turn up on it.
When the SV has done its time, I'll just go and get a VFR for the daily grind.
I have a 2000 EFi Blackbird. Had it for about a year now and done about 18000 miles on it. All I can say is FANTASTIC bike. Have a word with John (Jaws) at Jaws Motorcycles (http://www.jaws-motorcycles.com/) he is considered somewhat an authority on all things Blackbird. You can ring him anytime from like 9am to 10pm 7 days a week. He also carries non oem spares that are probably better than genuine and quite often cheaper. Also Try this forum (http://www.bikersoracle.com/blackbird/forum/index.php) its pretty friendly like on here.
Engine is bomb proof. Good for like 500,000 miles or something ridiculous with proper servicing and oil changes. Electrics can be a bit tricky, main loom connector known to be an issue but there is a solution, you cut it out. Reg/recs and altenators have been an issue dependant on carb or efi model. Linked brakes are great in winter on sh1tty roads, still ok in the summer, in fact I think track days are where most find them a pain. I haven't done track days so can't comment on that. 40-50mpg for me normal/fastish riding.
HTH's
sp1 pah just a fake tlr may aswell get the real thing.
Alpinestarhero
24-12-08, 07:37 PM
TLR dosn't have gear driven cams. not sold.
Plus my dad's boss had one, I wasnt impressed
oh, thanks fearg! glad to hear that. Fuel economy is about hat i get on teh SV most of the time
if you seriously want a sp get working out cause they hurt tlr's a better road bike imho looks better to me too.
Alpinestarhero
24-12-08, 07:40 PM
Meh, whatever I get will be stiff as a board compared to the armchair-like SV :D
wyrdness
24-12-08, 07:42 PM
I still want a busa. Cos it looks nice :smt019
Here, this might help you. (http://www.specsavers.co.uk)
Alpinestarhero
24-12-08, 07:42 PM
The only SV worth having!!! 1999 Curvy S. With a topbox :cheers:
SP-2 with a topbox won't work, so i have to keep the SV if I get one. Blackbird with full luggage will work, but not as agile for london, so I'll have to keep the SV still.
Whatever I get, the SV stays. I love it, i really love it.
the old sv's isnt that big i found anyway so it's not gonna be a big shock to get onto any of the little jap bikes maybe a bit of wrist ache but shouldnt be too bad.
Have you ridden a Blackbird yet? If not I would take on out for test ride. You won't be disappointed. :)
Alpinestarhero
24-12-08, 07:55 PM
I havn't ridden anyhting but my SV and my old scooter, a KMX 125, a C90 and a honda XL125!!!
not even my dads gsxr yet
be prepared to be surprised.
Alpinestarhero
24-12-08, 07:57 PM
i was suprised when i rode my SV for the first time. that was 33 bhp and only 8000 rpm of engine.
Oh carp.
pleasantly not horrifiyingly scarily surprised well it might be.
I went from my SV650 K3 to the Blackbird and I found it equally easy to ride. So much torque and good balance. Very heavy bike so you don't want to get off balance with it. I've never had a problem though, touch wood :p and I'm only 11ish stone and 5'7 nearly :-D
Alpinestarhero
24-12-08, 08:03 PM
tbh, im not bothered about owning a powerfull bike. Its only powerfull at full throtle and somewhere near the redline! at below half revs and whisper of throttle, any bike is a pussy cat.
The Blackbird has so much torque you don't need to go anywhere near the redline. I very rarely need to go anywhere near the redline especially in the winter. Its just such a versatile bike, easy in town, easy on the motorway, easy on the twisty's. I have a ferkin great big smile on my face everytime I ride it. :-D Oh and I commute 140 miles, round trip with no aches or pains.
Alpinestarhero
24-12-08, 08:12 PM
lol
I rarely use all the SV has to offer! But its on long journeys that I would like an engine with some longer legs
thats me sold on an SP2 then!!!!!
Two-up journeys with maria covering long distances with topbox and panniers I hope.
Seems to be an isue of comaptibility here. Weren't SP1 and SP2 the racing versions of the VTR (V-twin)?
My 1998 Fi-W has an RC45 series engine number.
And I'm surprised no-one pulled me on this codswallop. The trouble with rushed posts - of course, the 98-02 VFR's were RC46 engine series, not RC45! Don't know about the later ones.
Dangerous Dave
29-12-08, 03:19 PM
Seems to be an isue of comaptibility here. Weren't SP1 and SP2 the racing versions of the VTR (V-twin)?
Yes, in a way, but the SP engines are not a tuned version of the VTR Firestorm engine.
The SP2 is by far the better bike out of the two.
Sid Squid
29-12-08, 07:45 PM
The SP2 is by far the better bike out of the two.
True, very true.
Both of them are still possibly the worst road bikes produced for twenty years though.
Both of them are still possibly the worst road bikes produced for twenty years though.
Even if they were better than that as road bikes, I can't believe that OP wants either of them for his "longer legged two up touring" sort of duty.
Alpinestarhero, I'd suggest you stick with your original aspiration of Blackbird or VFR (or similar from other manufacturer) - the difference will probably come down to purchase cost, insurance cost and which one you feel more comfortable on.
yorkie_chris
30-12-08, 12:31 PM
I seem to remember him saying he wants a mile-muncher as well as an SPx. He ain't totally daft :-P
STRAMASHER
30-12-08, 12:58 PM
Seen a Blackbird in full flight then whacking on the anchors for a corner and it looked like his front tyre was washing out, wheel going left to right like a slapper but under braking. Fella had ridden 30k+ on it and just shrugged and said," Its just the CBS brakes" when I asked him.
Thinking back I reckon if he had been on another bike he would have been down the road but for those linked brakes.
But then maybe he would have not overpowered the front tyre if the brakes had not been linked in the first place. Back brake "settling" the bike and pushing the bike forward instead of down.
"Rider aids" freak me out.
For the weight and size they are, Blackbirds still REALLY go. :cool:
(I feel dirty for being complamentary about a CB H***a. Yeuch.):D
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