H&R Insurance

[custard]

any one had an experience of this lot cos i have a couple of questions.

I recently bought a policy on line for my KTM from them, as they were the cheapest with best options etc.
When I actually got the documents they asked me to complete and return certain sections. One of the sections was no-claims bonus. they stipulate that you cant use no-claims bonuses on any other vehicle/policy (have sv1000 and hornet on other policy)

firstquestion is, is this standard throughout the industry?

as it is i couldnt afford not to have my no claims on this policy as without the 4 years ncb the premium nearly doubles.

because of this i am wanting to cancel the policy within the 14 day cooling off period. BUT they want to charge me £20+pro rata rate for the number of days i had the insurance. Can they do this?

thanks all

tom

[Mr Speirs]

Yeah you can't use your no claims on more than 1 policy. Effectively you are doubling your NCB.

My suggestion would be to insure all three bikes under the same policy using the 4 years no claims under one policy.

Try access underwriters. You can insure more than one bike under the same policy for very little. What you do is insure the most expensive bike as the main bike and then it cost £41 per bike on top of that figure.

[MrTom]

Not being able to use NCB on more than 1 vehicle has always puzzled me.

The reason you have have NCBs is because you are a careful and able motorist who poses less risk to the insurance company, therefore deserves lower premiums.

So why do insurance companies think that you only drive carefully in one vehicle and therefore only discount the price for one vehicle?

It's the driver not the vehicle that earned the NCB.


(No need to explain the reasons for the above btw. It's obviously just a way for insurance companies to make more money)

[TSM]

Im with H&R and yes thats all standard with most insurance companies, i have to say that H&R check your paperwork more than others.

I have two bikes with them, instead of having a combined policy which seemed to work out more expensive they did me a deal where i have two policies one on TPFT the other FC but i still only get one lot of NCB, the price of the 2nd policy was 1/2 cost.Overall it worked out cheeper than other multi bike policies.

[muffles]

Not being able to use NCB on more than 1 vehicle has always puzzled me.

The reason you have have NCBs is because you are a careful and able motorist who poses less risk to the insurance company, therefore deserves lower premiums.

So why do insurance companies think that you only drive carefully in one vehicle and therefore only discount the price for one vehicle?

It's the driver not the vehicle that earned the NCB.


(No need to explain the reasons for the above btw. It's obviously just a way for insurance companies to make more money)

It's probably also partly to do with splitting out your no claims though...if you had a claim on one policy, they need to link that to other policies using the same no claims, i.e. a bit database of who's using what NCB where. You know how much they have messed up the simple task of which vehicles have insurance! :mrgreen:

Also - the proof you send new insurers when you move is (usually) your renewal stating the number of years no claims - this would be received for both policies and again would need to be tied together, otherwise you could 'separate' the no claims into 2 (or more) come renewal time, by moving to different insurers. Then you'd be able to do the above "claim but keep your no claims" thing...

[ogden]

As has been said or hinted at above, the NCB is tied to the policy, not to the policyholder.

If you have multiple bikes, and if the numbers add up, I'd suggest having the cheapest bike on a separate policy. There's nothing to stop you having two sets of NCB and if you were to have to claim on your expensive policy, you can simply transfer the NCB from the cheap one at renewal time. I do this with the GSXR (expensive to insure) and RGV (cheap as chips).

[custard]

well thats a bugger!


have tried putting the ktm on with my sv insurance, would only cost me £60 but would only be insured 3rd party. apparently they are too high risk to insure for theft...

thanks for the info all. will do some digging and see what quotes i can get.

[chakraist]

They shouldn't be charging you £20 for cancelling in the 14 day cooling off period, you should talk to them about that. Maybe kick up a bit of a fuss regarding the NCD issue, if you weren't told about it when you took the policy out.

[ogden]

have tried putting the ktm on with my sv insurance, would only cost me £60 but would only be insured 3rd party. apparently they are too high risk to insure for theft...

That's insane. I know people with KTMs who insure them with no problems? Where do you live, Toxteth?

[Viney]

I even know some insane people who bought a KTM in the 1st place!

[custard]

worse.


watford....

just been out for my 1st proper run. i think i can sum it up

ha ha weeeeeeee.

[Paws]

Try mce insurance ;)

Ive got my 675 and sv650s on seperate policies and am using my ncb on the 675

[custard]

thanks for all the help.

just tried to insure KTM with MCE, was the thick end of £400!!

then was tooling about with multi bike and decided to declare all the mods on my SV...

that alone came to...























£7,000

think i am going to have to live with 3rd party only as if i cancel my current policy, to go multi bike, with carole nash they take £25 plus 20% of refundable premium and i would lose this years no claims...

bugger
bugger
bugger

[ogden]

Top tip: Get the quote before buying the bike.

[custard]

thankyou smart **** :)

[ogden]

Really - there are loads of bikes I'd have bought over the years if insurance had been even vaguely sensible (the 8k comp on a Ducati comes to mind.) Did you really not check first?

[custard]

i assumed that my current insurer would be able to insure 3rd party fire and theft without a problem.

and then dint realise that your NCB is tied to a policy and not a person. with that i coulda had it insured for £99...

still gald i bought it though. its a riot!

live and learn eh?


ho hum.

[vardypeeps]

They take the p iss!
As stated above your NCB is there because you are an able rider/driver and should be transferable.
Makes my blood boil when they start taking rubbish and saying we can not do this and that. Next time just say ok well if you can not do that I will move! they will soon sort something

[chris8886]

worse.


watford....

just been out for my 1st proper run. i think i can sum it up

ha ha weeeeeeee.

the sv isn't too bad for me here, although it helps a fair amount that it lives in a garage though.

looked at insuring the blade back in october and on a dual policy it was ridiculous, but on its own only £400.

[ogden]

They take the p iss!
As stated above your NCB is there because you are an able rider/driver and should be transferable.
Makes my blood boil when they start taking rubbish and saying we can not do this and that. Next time just say ok well if you can not do that I will move! they will soon sort something

What are you babbling about?

The NCB is a per-policy thing. It is transferrable, but you can't use it on two separate policies in parallel. Nothing new there.

If you threaten to move, you'll just be moving to another insurer with the same way of working. Big win, huh?

[custard]

i think we are talking about the perfect common sense world. my view was that it is the driver that has the ncb not the policy.

chris, was it you i saw heading out down the hempstead road towards hunton bridge racetrack just before 12ish?

[ogden]

i think we are talking about the perfect common sense world. my view was that it is the driver that has the ncb not the policy.

You might hold that view but the insurance companies don't and, as far back as I can remember, never have. The NCB is transferrable from one policy to another, but the driver can't use it on two at a time.

[custard]

thats why i say common sense world. that should have been my first indication :)

[chris8886]

i think we are talking about the perfect common sense world. my view was that it is the driver that has the ncb not the policy.

chris, was it you i saw heading out down the hempstead road towards hunton bridge racetrack just before 12ish?

that would've been me on my way to the m25 going towards st. albans. where were you? and what racetrack would you be referring to exactly? :rolleyes::confused:

[custard]

think i passed you just outside the grove, was going to watford in a corsa. :(

just the M25 roundabout. the slip road onto the M25 is immense for high speed shenanigans. of course saying that i did get nicked ton up coming off the m25. the bugger nearly knocked me off for my troubles!

used to do the run to st albans every day, the a414(?) is a hoot! used to have a proper good blast down there every morning. :)

[muffles]

i think we are talking about the perfect common sense world. my view was that it is the driver that has the ncb not the policy.

chris, was it you i saw heading out down the hempstead road towards hunton bridge racetrack just before 12ish?

Of course, by tying it to the driver instead of the policy, you will be in a situation where you lose your NCB on EVERYTHING you have insured if you claim for anything :)

I'm assuming in your perfect common sense world (;)) a driver does not have a single set of NCB for absolutely everything. I'm thinking specifically car & bike, though it could apply to all sorts - house insurance, travel insurance, etc. Someone could build up 5 years no claims on a car, then go get a GSX-R1000!

[ogden]

Of course, by tying it to the driver instead of the policy, you will be in a situation where you lose your NCB on EVERYTHING you have insured if you claim for anything :)

I'm assuming in your perfect common sense world (;)) a driver does not have a single set of NCB for absolutely everything. I'm thinking specifically car & bike, though it could apply to all sorts - house insurance, travel insurance, etc. Someone could build up 5 years no claims on a car, then go get a GSX-R1000!

Is that so different to building up 5 years on a 50cc scooter then using the NCB on a policy for a thou?

I use the system to my advantage. Separate policies for the GSXR and RGV. If I lose the NCB on the expensive policy, I can shift the NCB across from the cheap one. Job done.

[muffles]

Is that so different to building up 5 years on a 50cc scooter then using the NCB on a policy for a thou?

I use the system to my advantage. Separate policies for the GSXR and RGV. If I lose the NCB on the expensive policy, I can shift the NCB across from the cheap one. Job done.

It is different when you consider that a car and a bike are different types of vehicles...yes, a thou is very different from a 50cc scooter, but not as different (IMO) as a car is from a bike.

However...it's still a valid point, and insurance companies don't have it exactly right, I think. All they want to know, is what risk they are insuring, the NCB is just an indicator to them of that, as is your accident/driving record, your time riding, the capacity of the last bike you owned, etc - all things I've seen asked on insurance detail forms.

I think not allowing the NCB from one type of vehicle to be used on another, when they are that different, is probably quite relevant. It may cause them to under-charge you when you are in fact a higher risk, and at the end of the day insurance companies aren't charities, they average out all their risk etc so the total taken in > total paid out. It works the same for your example too, though, to me all you're saying is that your example also shouldn't be allowed (even if it is) ;)

[ogden]

at the end of the day insurance companies aren't charities, they average out all their risk etc so the total taken in > total paid out. It works the same for your example too, though, to me all you're saying is that your example also shouldn't be allowed (even if it is) ;)

Over all policyholders, the sum of all premiums should indeed be greater than the sum of all claims, though the experience of many Lloyds Names a decade or two ago show that isn't always the case.

In my personal case, I've seen enough paid out to cover a a lifetime of premiums and I'm more than happy that my own example of the dual policy shuffle is permitted. As to people getting off a scooter and onto a thou, more power to their elbow! ;)

[chris8886]

think i passed you just outside the grove, was going to watford in a corsa. :(

just the M25 roundabout. the slip road onto the M25 is immense for high speed shenanigans. of course saying that i did get nicked ton up coming off the m25. the bugger nearly knocked me off for my troubles!

used to do the run to st albans every day, the a414(?) is a hoot! used to have a proper good blast down there every morning. :)

yeh, probably me.

i know what you mean, have seen people being naughty ;) how you manage that? it's so open you can see the whole way down, or was it one those pesky undercover cars? but then you should know all of those too! lol.

yeh, one of my favourites round here. would normally go that way, but was going to london colney and was running a bit late and the roundabouts aren't so much fun with this much rubbish on the roads.

[custard]

yeh, probably me.

i know what you mean, have seen people being naughty ;) how you manage that? it's so open you can see the whole way down, or was it one those pesky undercover cars? but then you should know all of those too! lol.

yeh, one of my favourites round here. would normally go that way, but was going to london colney and was running a bit late and the roundabouts aren't so much fun with this much rubbish on the roads.

yeah working for the police i should know them off by heart :)
unmarked skoda! i was intent on what was happening infront of me, saw a bus moving to the middle lane near the roundabout so rolled off the throttle and sat up. took a look in my mirror and see this grey car right up my chuff trying desperatly to not lock up his brakes and go into the back of me (good ol engine braking) i look again and then see the blues. cheeky sod only put them on when i had noticed him.

when i stopped the copper was livid, presumably cos he nearly had me off. :D

[chris8886]

yeah working for the police i should know them off by heart :)
unmarked skoda! i was intent on what was happening infront of me, saw a bus moving to the middle lane near the roundabout so rolled off the throttle and sat up. took a look in my mirror and see this grey car right up my chuff trying desperatly to not lock up his brakes and go into the back of me (good ol engine braking) i look again and then see the blues. cheeky sod only put them on when i had noticed him.

when i stopped the copper was livid, presumably cos he nearly had me off. :D

you numpty!! lol. that one has gone now you know? been replaced by 2 new vauxhall vectras. one black, one a dark crappy green (i think). both number plates start 'ou08' if i remember rightly.

[custard]

tell me about it. it turns out he had been following me for the last 5 mins or so :rolleyes: ooops!

still, points come off in march so all is good :) by all accounts i shoulda been banned, but thankfully he saw my warrant card in my map pocket on the tank bag[-o<[-o< but tbh, i havent done it since.

[chris8886]

you lucky sod! and how many points did you get? you surely didn't get away with just 3 as well?!

[custard]

hehe yup.

3 points £60 fine.