View Full Version : Test your helmet here!!
John 675
18-01-09, 09:36 AM
Want to know if your helmet is safe? here is what the government think (from the gospel according to gordon brown ;) )
http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/
post your findings if you like?
could get a bit of a catalogue going?
Helmet // * Rating
4 stars on mine that'll do for me.
John 675
18-01-09, 09:45 AM
what was it?
Dangerous Dave
18-01-09, 11:21 AM
I think this is the original results, remember the SHARP tests were inaccurate following the people behind it admitting they incorrectly interpreted the results.
NickWilde123
18-01-09, 11:31 AM
5 stars, not to shabby :)
5 stars, not to shabby :)
ditto! :)
shonadoll
18-01-09, 04:55 PM
Arai condor, 2 stars, but don't trust the test so irrelevant to me.
what was it?
nitro n810vx or summat like that not a bad lid actually for what i paid for it :p
Shoei XR1000 and its 3 stars
The results are fataly flawed though, I read they were that wrong the goverment were even going to take down the web page.
Shoei XR1000 and its 3 stars
The results are fataly flawed though, I read they were that wrong the goverment were even going to take down the web page.
isnt the XR1000 the same as the raid II just with a few more vents adn a lip or two here and there?? if so why woudl the raid II get 4 stars and the XR1000 only 3?
NickWilde123
18-01-09, 05:44 PM
mine is a carberg v2r, why is it flawed?
kwak zzr
18-01-09, 06:06 PM
Arai condor, 2 stars, but don't trust the test so irrelevant to me.
same here but HG told me they were unfairly tested, it was the spike test on the top of the lid where it failed but arai concentrate on the parts of the lid that matter in the event of a crash not a spike through the top.
scottjames
18-01-09, 06:20 PM
My AGV GP tech isnt even on there. It better do well for what i paid fot it. :)
Stewbie
27-01-09, 10:07 PM
AGV Ti-Tech - 4 Stars. It's quite nice to know my helmet did well, even if the test results don't count for much. If that makes sense?
Dangerous Dave
28-01-09, 03:53 PM
why is it flawed?
Again....
I think this is the original results, remember the SHARP tests were inaccurate following the people behind it admitting they incorrectly interpreted the results.
lukemillar
03-05-09, 11:44 PM
same here but HG told me they were unfairly tested, it was the spike test on the top of the lid where it failed but arai concentrate on the parts of the lid that matter in the event of a crash not a spike through the top.
Unless you crash into a wrought iron fence with spikes on top ;)
Jamiebridges123
04-05-09, 01:36 AM
3 stars on my HJC FS10 carbon fibby.
leesh00
04-05-09, 07:50 PM
AGV stealth dragon - 5 stars :)
Shellywoozle
05-05-09, 05:33 PM
Arai Viper GT - 3 stars
Sure the Shoei I like has more stars but would not have been such a nice fit so does that mean I can take a star off LOL
4 Starts for the £100 quid Nuvo I bought as a spare.
3 Stars for the £170 quid HJC FS-10 I bought in September 07'..
Been dropped countless times, the pop down visor fell out, is all chipped..
Think I should possibly renew it..
BanditPat
05-05-09, 07:59 PM
Shark RSI - 4 Stars...
kurtis.randle
05-05-09, 08:06 PM
Arai condor, 2 stars, but don't trust the test so irrelevant to me.
thats just what a person with 2 stars would say lol
missyburd
05-05-09, 09:07 PM
Arai condor, 2 stars, but don't trust the test so irrelevant to me.
Shoei XR1000 and its 3 stars
.
Strange, I have a KBC VR1-X and it got 3 stars....
Bought mine based on these, SHARK S800 4stars
The testing is complete and utter b******s dont believe a word of it
Cymraeg_Atodeg
13-05-09, 09:29 PM
I was impressed that the helmet I paid £45 for for 4 stars and yet the £400 Arai I want only gets 3 stars...
ScottWilson
16-05-09, 01:46 PM
Shark RSX, five stars. Happy with that.
Nolan N-Com N103, 4 stars. That'll do me!
only 2 stars for mine but then i didnt pay alot for it! nxt helmet will be better should be replacing it in november
Miss Alpinestarhero
09-06-09, 06:08 PM
Arai Condor, 2 stars. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm :-k
Amplimator
09-06-09, 06:35 PM
4 stars for my laser fiber pro light, that'l do me considering i mainly brought it coz it was comfy over me hearing AMPlifier dooberry ;)
TheShadow
19-06-09, 12:13 PM
5 stars , Agv Stealth. Not bad considering it cost me under <£100 (brand new obvously.)
Arai Condor, 2 stars. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm :-k
I've got one of these and I don't car what the test says its better than a plastic £50 helemt.
Shoei XR1000 saved my friends life too
Complete and utter rubbish this test, and so DANGEROUS as people actually refer to it and get a rubbish £50 lid instead of a decent arai, shoei or equivalent
this really really annoys me and will no doubt cost people when they crash in rubbish helemts because of these stupid tests.
If a £100 helemt has 5 stars why are NO racers using them, answer me that.
Jim.AroadHero
19-06-09, 03:19 PM
I've got a SHARK RSR2, which got given 5 stars, which is fair enough cause it is a brilliant lid, and should be for 300odd quids. BUT as said numerous times the test is flawed, perhaps (as GavinD suggests) even dangerous if it influences riders to go for cheaper 'higher rated' lids. I also know someone who saved their head with a Shoei (not bomber Harris) so go figure :smt012
If a £100 helemt has 5 stars why are NO racers using them, answer me that.
That is a facetious argument. Part of the cost of your arai or shoei goes on paying racers to wear them - you think they are doing it for free?
There is no independent evidence that a 50 quid ECE22.05 lid is any more or less safe than a £500 lid. The SHARP test tries to show relative safety, but is being dismissed - often by expensive manufacturers who are performing badly.
Personally, I would like to see tests which all the manufacturers get behind so that SHARP v2 isn't dismissed in the same way. Cheaper is not necessarily either more or less safe than expensive.
Jamiebridges123
19-06-09, 03:31 PM
Personally I don't pay a blind bit of attention to the SHARP safety rating..
I mean would you rather have a £350 Arai or a £100 Shark, assuming the Arai has been race proven, yet only received, say, 2 stars from SHARP, or the Shark, which not even schoolboy racers use, yet received 5 stars?
or the Shark, which not even schoolboy racers use, yet received 5 stars?
Leon Camier?
Troy Corser?
De Puniet?
Jamiebridges123
19-06-09, 03:37 PM
The Sharks used in racing are not the £100 ones. :D
The Sharks used in racing are not the £100 ones. :D
And what makes you think the Arai/Shoei ones are the £350 ones?
How much do you pay for a good brand name though ?
Does it cost 5 or 6 times more to make a top named lid over a average lid ?
I think that although us bikers would be the last people to think of ourselves as fashion followers, but I suspect that many on here pay vastly over the odds just to get a well known name.
Being a Yorkshireman (tight) I have never owned a pair of original Levi's, although I live in jeans, as the thought of paying to be a mug makes me cringe.
But, it must be very annoying to have paid loads for a big brand lid and not to have five stars !
Cymraeg_Atodeg
19-06-09, 05:48 PM
New research is showing that the S.H.A.R.P. rating system is not an accurate test of how safe a helmet is as it mainly tests the very extreme right and left of the helmet, while hardly testing the front and not even testing, what has come to light as the most likely place to hit the 'road/car/road funature,' the chin bar...
New research is showing that the S.H.A.R.P. rating system is not an accurate test of how safe a helmet is as it mainly tests the very extreme right and left of the helmet, while hardly testing the front and not even testing, what has come to light as the most likely place to hit the 'road/car/road funature,' the chin bar...
You got a link for that research?
radicalry00
19-06-09, 07:07 PM
You got a link for that research?
I read the same thing in MCN. They said it was a report done by Birmingham University by the chairman of the British Standard for Motorcycle Helmets. I haven't got a link to it though.
Jamiebridges123
19-06-09, 07:27 PM
You got a link for that research?
Tbh I can believe it.. after my off which wrecked my Z750, my very old, inherted Shoei helmet was unmarked, apart from large chunks and deep scratches along the chin section and around the back. Makes sense if you think about it.. if you lay on your back or your front, you don't have your shoulders to help keep your head a little higher..(ie away from the scary tarmac!) :smt026
Cymraeg_Atodeg
19-06-09, 08:19 PM
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/General-news/2009/June/jun1709-government-helmet-ratings-panned/?&R=EPI-115886
As requested
Owenski
19-06-09, 08:57 PM
that SHARP test gives my lid, 3 stars.
I wouldnt give it 1.
I actually find it scary that people like simesb are listening to this.
If you think that the extra cost of an arai or shoei is because racers get them free that silly - they are multinationals who could lose a container ships worth and not notice it.
I know - having replaced my helmets almost yearly that the build quality in some is shocking compared to my arai.
I'm not precious about brands or looks, but I am about my head.
I don't care what anyone with a £50-100 apparently 5* lid says - I'll stick with the lids I've seen save peoples lives and I'm sure those who have the same helmets (derived of years of research from the REAL WORLD) will support me here.
The fact people argue this will cost lives - the isn't an exaggeration - and I urge you to read the various articles around the research. It doesn't fit what our helmets are designed to save us from in the most common accidents.
Remember also - I could go to my lab and make a test to fail your helmet and pass all our Arai's and Shoei's.
Mr Farley
20-06-09, 07:00 PM
AGV K-Series (£90 ebay) 3 stars......whatever that means?
ethariel
20-06-09, 11:18 PM
Sharp Test, created and run by the same folls who wanted leg Protectors to be made mandatory on bikes iirc.......................... says it all
Lucas66
02-08-09, 11:08 AM
well i bought a SHOEI XR 1000 2 weeks ago and unfortunately i tested it out as i landed head first at about 60 mph, well to put it right i face planted road and hit my head another 3 times i would say.
It worked absolutely brilliantly no headache or anything at all , so good i have just ordered another.
BomBalong
02-08-09, 03:12 PM
ouch, sorry to hear mate. ride safe.
lukemillar
03-08-09, 07:01 AM
This is response is stupid. Anyone noticed how all the people bitching are the ones whose lids scored badly? Of course that means the test is rubbish!
What you should look at is these helmets were tested in a series of impact tests and this is how the helmets performed. That is all you should take away from it. It doesn't mean that a 4 star helmet is better than a 3 star helmet. It just means that it performed better "in these tests".
Simesb does make a good point in that rating helmets based on their performance is a good idea. Maybe the testing right now isn't that comprehensive or developed, but at least someone is trying to do something to inform the public. In time, I'm sure the testing will develop. Much better to have a controlled test environment than the "My mate fell off and he was ok = good helmet". Every crash is different and so you can't draw anything from it.
I would, however, put money that more people hurt themselves in motorbike accidents from badly fitting helmets rather than wearing a 3 star lid instead of a 5 star.
I agree Luke.
There is no conclusive proof to show that the extortionate cost of an Arai is any better than a Nolan/AGV/Bell etc etc. Arai is a brand, like any brand it is marketed in a specific way to appeal to its target market. Sure they are good helmets, but are they more effective at preventing injury when compared to a good quality helmet selling at £100?
How can the exact same Arai helmet painted in race rep colours justify another £60-£100 compared to plain colours? Is it really safer in Rossi colours than plain black? Its all about appealing to the right customer, nothing more.
There are some excellent helmets around for a fraction of the cost of an Arai, you shouldnt feel that they are less capable just because they cost less. There are also some cr*p ones, both cheap and pricey. The Sharp tests are currently the only independant way to make any kind of assessment without going out and crashing on each.
Geoffrey
03-08-09, 11:32 AM
I agree with the two comments above, however these results have been concluded by the testers and independent testing bodies as flawed.
There is no conclusive proof to show that the extortionate cost of an Arai
How can the exact same Arai helmet painted in race rep colours justify another £60-£100
.
My Arai condor was only £190, not extortionate.
the £60-100 is to cover the costs of painting as paints that don't affect resin materials are very expensive.
Again, buy a £50 plastic lid, you won't be able to cry about it when it doesn't do its job properly.
My Arai condor was only £190, not extortionate.
the £60-100 is to cover the costs of painting as paints that don't affect resin materials are very expensive.
Again, buy a £50 plastic lid, you won't be able to cry about it when it doesn't do its job properly.
So, my £100 OGK FF4 GP helmet is not up to the job then on that thinking? Was good enough for Steve Hislop to use in BSB a few years ago.
Not all Arais are that expensive obviously, but many are £400 plus. If you think they are simply safer because they cost more you're kidding yourself. They are nice helmets but most of them are too expensive.
Again, buy a £50 plastic lid, you won't be able to cry about it when it doesn't do its job properly.
Utter nonsense! - ALL helmets sold in Britain meet the same minimum standards. There is no evidence that a plastic lid will do the job better or worse than any other.
All helmets are built to pass tests. SNELL test result in a helmet with different strengths to those built for the European market. All crashes are different, but tests are all we have to try and subjectively compare "safety". Until the manufacturers stand by a test with relative results (not just pass/fail like ECE22.05 but stars like SHARP) the uneducated consumer will always resort to "my hat's better cos it cost more"
One thing the SHARP tests are good for in my opinion is that they offer some sort of baseline to compare aspects of helmet strength. True they dont necessarily reflect the precise conditions of a crash but then no helmet is best at everything either.
You could be wearing the latest top end Arai and still break your neck.
The SHARP tests will be replaced by something better or will develop and get smarter, you have to start somewhere. It isnt the only consideration when buying a helmet but its definately one.
Lucas66
03-08-09, 04:04 PM
all i said was i would recommend shoei xr1000 after the off i had.
I bought mine because it fit absolutley brilliantly , the finish was second to none and i liked the design and seen as it was suppose to be £415 down to £280 i thought i'll get one of those and i have heard good things about shoei.
Gazza77
03-08-09, 04:20 PM
Utter nonsense! - ALL helmets sold in Britain meet the same minimum standards. There is no evidence that a plastic lid will do the job better or worse than any other.
All helmets are built to pass tests. SNELL test result in a helmet with different strengths to those built for the European market. All crashes are different, but tests are all we have to try and subjectively compare "safety". Until the manufacturers stand by a test with relative results (not just pass/fail like ECE22.05 but stars like SHARP) the uneducated consumer will always resort to "my hat's better cos it cost more"
Conversely, despite the fact that the SHARP findings have been universally agreed to be flawed, other consumers will always argue "they all meet the same standards, so why buy anything other than the cheapest?"
At the end of the day, we're all entitled to pay our money and take our choice...
Conversely, despite the fact that the SHARP findings have been universally agreed to be flawed, other consumers will always argue "they all meet the same standards, so why buy anything other than the cheapest?"
From what I can see on the web, "universally agreed" appears to be a university study (aspects of which are flaws in ECE 22.05 as well), and manufacturers who have not scored well.
At the end of the day, we're all entitled to pay our money and take our choice...
Of course, and I think my current Arai is finished to a higher standard than my previous, cheaper, HJC; it's more comfortable, and looks better. What I don't do is kind myself that it is any more or less safe that a glassfibre, carbon fibre, or cotton wool helmet. I have to wear it - I never want to use it.
So, my £100 OGK FF4 GP helmet is not up to the job then on that thinking? Was good enough for Steve Hislop to use in BSB a few years ago.
Not all Arais are that expensive obviously, but many are £400 plus. If you think they are simply safer because they cost more you're kidding yourself. They are nice helmets but most of them are too expensive.
I used to have a OGK same as that and the build quality was terrible - the first one shed its side pods so they replaced it and the replacement all the vents were lose fitting.
I've still got a blacked out visor for one somewhere.
Also for my budget of £250 ish there are 3 models available - the £400 plus are mostly replicas where you pay for the paint.
This is such a stupid discussion as you are basically arguing that the market leaders in helmet design and manufacture are no better than the budget brands, so tell me - same attitude to your leathers, gloves, boots etc - I'm guessing not.
This is such a stupid discussion as you are basically arguing that the market leaders in helmet design and manufacture are no better than the budget brands, so tell me - same attitude to your leathers, gloves, boots etc - I'm guessing not.
Market leaders on price point.
Ask Lozzo which leathers he recommends - dainese come bottom of the heap, but are one of the highest price points.
Cost does not equal quality, and cheapness does not equal value.
lukemillar
03-08-09, 10:13 PM
Market leaders on price point.
Ask Lozzo which leathers he recommends - Dainese come bottom of the heap, but are one of the highest price points.
Cost does not equal quality, and cheapness does not equal value.
I'd say that you can't blindly slate a whole brand though. I'd agree that not everything that is cheap is crap and not everything that is expensive is the best.
However, I don't think it is valid to say "All Dainese is crap". I have heard horror stories about many manufacturers of anything bike related, but for every horror story, you can find someone who thinks it is the best.
Lozzo says that Frank Thomas stuff is carp, yet I did a number of trackdays with Weaselz where I watched him throw himself down the track at least 3 times. He wore Frank Thomas gear and walked away unscathed everytime. Go figure.
I used to have a OGK same as that and the build quality was terrible - the first one shed its side pods so they replaced it and the replacement all the vents were lose fitting.
I've still got a blacked out visor for one somewhere.
Also for my budget of £250 ish there are 3 models available - the £400 plus are mostly replicas where you pay for the paint.
This is such a stupid discussion as you are basically arguing that the market leaders in helmet design and manufacture are no better than the budget brands, so tell me - same attitude to your leathers, gloves, boots etc - I'm guessing not.
Lol, maybe its because it didnt have an Arai sticker on it. I cant vouch for your particular helmet but all I can say is that mine has been faultless, its also the third one I've owned after replacing them following some pretty fast race crashes. Very happy with them personally. They have worked perfectly for me at a fraction of the cost of a top model Arai. I used to use an Arai RX7 but soon changed my mind when I had to replace it after a minor crash. Cant be doing that too often at £450 a go.
As far as leathers, boots etc its the same argument. I dont look for a set of Dainese's, I look for a set of good quality race leathers at a reasonable price. I've used a few different types over the years, Akito being the best value for money in my own experience but there are plenty to choose from. Try them on and look at the construction before deciding on a brand, you can tell if they are crap just by looking at them close up.
slark01
03-08-09, 11:18 PM
I have a Caberg Trip helmet and from the tests and advice from other riders have concluded that it is a helmet to use at the right price.
If you look at all of the test results that you can find and listen to other riders you should be able to find a good safe helmet.
To me this is just common sense. There is a flaw in all tests done as noone can really test for every scenario, use the tests as a guide line and really listen to other riders.
Choose wisely and ride safely.
Ste.
STRAMASHER
04-08-09, 07:03 AM
So, my £100 OGK FF4 GP helmet is not up to the job then on that thinking? Was good enough for Steve Hislop to use in BSB a few years ago.
.
If you think Steve Hislop was wearing some off the shelf £100 plastic pot you are deluded!
In my experience the cheapy brands do not last. Get loose in no time.
If you think Steve Hislop was wearing some off the shelf £100 plastic pot you are deluded!
Actually not, I have all my senses fully functioning. In its prime time it was marketing for a higher figure obviously, just like the latest MotoGP reps are now. At the time though it was certainly not a leading brand and did not cost anywhere near £450. I bought it because it was from a reputable manufacturer and was extremely light, just what I needed for racing. I could have spent double the money but it would not have bought me a safer helmet.
My helmet is the exact same model as he had on, I saw it, in fact I held it. My father knew a number of well known riders personally and I met them on more than one occasion so please dont patronise me.
The majority of the cost of the more expensive helmets is purely profit based on brand association or more often race rep colours. They are not more expensive to manufacture than most other quality helmets and certainly dont offer a proportional step up in safety level. You are paying a premium for a brand. The helmet manufacturers often supply helmets for free or even pay riders to wear them, there is a reason for that.
. I bought it because it was from a reputable manufacturer and was extremely light, just what I needed for racing.
The majority of the cost of the more expensive helmets is purely profit
You are paying a premium for a brand
.
My arai is lighter than my OGK
O.k so I'm paying 50 quid more but I also get
Free 6 months service/valet where all the pads are cleaned/replaced if necessary
Free post accident inspection and reduced cost if replacement is necessary
Free anti-fog pin lock visor insert
Free care kit to make sure the visor mech keeps working nicely
Next day turn around on all services
Free customising - I had my cheek pads changed and bits around my ears for a perfect to me fit free
Free aero tweeks - I had a chin spoiler fitted free
I now have my perfect helmet.
With OGK I got a 27 day turn-around on a warranty claim only for them to send me back my old faulty helmet, so sent it back again and the replacement was faulty (the polystyrene inner moved about!!). Finally the third one was o.k until the visor came of one side on the motorway and it took 2 weeks to get a new ratchet. The rubber seal doesn't seal the visor so water comes in when you stop. The OGK race visors don't fit properly. The rubber seal eventually statrts to come away where you open the visor. finally vents are stuck on with double sided tape.
So really I think my arai is worth the £50 quid more to me.
Also OGK don't appaer on sharp as the hole for the top vent is where they were dropping the test hammer so would have simply penetrated the chasis into the hemet cavity.
O.k so I'm paying 50 quid more but I also get
Free 6 months service/valet where all the pads are cleaned/replaced if necessary
Free post accident inspection and reduced cost if replacement is necessary
Free anti-fog pin lock visor insert
Free care kit to make sure the visor mech keeps working nicely
Next day turn around on all services
Free customising - I had my cheek pads changed and bits around my ears for a perfect to me fit free
Free aero tweeks - I had a chin spoiler fitted free
I now have my perfect helmet.
With OGK I got a 27 day turn-around on a warranty claim only for them to send me back my old faulty helmet, so sent it back again and the replacement was faulty (the polystyrene inner moved about!!). Finally the third one was o.k until the visor came of one side on the motorway and it took 2 weeks to get a new ratchet. The rubber seal doesn't seal the visor so water comes in when you stop. The OGK race visors don't fit properly. The rubber seal eventually statrts to come away where you open the visor. finally vents are stuck on with double sided tape.
So really I think my arai wins hands down
Also OGK don't appaer on sharp as the hole for the top vent is where they were dropping the test hammer so would have simply penetrated the chasis into the skull. Safe.
Is this one of those "My dads a blackbelt" statements? Get a grip and grow up.
All of those 'free' things you listed are not free, you are paying for them. Thats fine and the list seems like a perfectly acceptable bunch of things to pay for. To make the assumption though that the extra money ensures a safer helmet is pure cr&p.
You may have had a bad experience with your OGK but you cant associate that with an entire helmet brand because of it. There are probably plenty of people out there that didnt have a good experience with Arai either, it deosnt mean all Arais are poor though.
Is this one of those "My dads a blackbelt" statements? Get a grip and grow up.
All of those 'free' things you listed are not free, you are paying for them. Thats fine and the list seems like a perfectly acceptable bunch of things to pay for. To make the assumption though that the extra money ensures a safer helmet is pure cr&p.
You may have had a bad experience with your OGK but you cant associate that with an entire helmet brand because of it. There are probably plenty of people out there that didnt have a good experience with Arai either, it deosnt mean all Arais are poor though.
Not sure what you mean by my dad's a blackbelt, and I don't need to 'get a grip' thanks. Resulting to insults is an immature way to try and put your opinion across in a discussion, which I will not stoop to, sorry.
You could say that they are free as if we benchmark against my old and your FF4 the arai has more expensive materials (better build quality even over my OGK that had no faults) and a longer warranty from the outlay aside from the extras above.
Also the extra money has ensured a higher degree of safety as my helmet now fits my head (and my head alone) perfectly as the changes have made an arai that is specific to me.
Remember this is only a discussion, so try not to get insulted by others thoughts.
Resulting to insults is an immature way to try and put your opinion across in a discussion, which I will not stoop to, sorry.
I dont recall insulting anybody, or acting immaturely. I think we've made a number of points in this discussion that focus on the relative safety of the helmets and you clearly feel that you need to use an Arai to feel safe, thats fine and your choice. Doesnt change my original observation though that you dont necessarily get a safer helmet because it costs more.
I dont recall insulting anybody, or acting immaturely. .
Get a grip and grow up - its 3 posts up, you wrote it!
Get a grip and grow up - its 3 posts up, you wrote it!
We clearly have two very different perspectives of what constitutes an insult. I was referring to your approach along the lines of "My helmets better than yours" that I thought was pretty immature.
having owned and used both I was saying that the Aria has been the far superior of the two - I've owned both the Aeroblade II and FF4 so I am speaking from experience. The OGK lasted about 11 months of regular use, but withing that lots of little things went wrong.
I think there is a difference between safety and build quality, the build quality of my 2 OGK's let down the safety side as the no longer fitted properly, and having your visor come lose was a tad distracting. You couldn't get it serviced easily and quickly to make it any better.
I think thats a fair comment.
having owned and used both I was saying that the Aria has been the far superior of the two - I've owned both the Aeroblade II and FF4 so I am speaking from experience. The OGK lasted about 11 months of regular use, but withing that lots of little things went wrong.
I think there is a difference between safety and build quality, the build quality of my 2 OGK's let down the safety side as the no longer fitted properly, and having your visor come lose was a tad distracting. You couldn't get it serviced easily and quickly to make it any better.
I think thats a fair comment.
Thats fair enough. I've also used both, an Arai RX7 that was pretty good but pricey. It allowed me to use different cheek pads etc etc but it fitted anyway so there was no need. My OGK is the lightweight FF4GP model, the three I've owned have been faultless. I've never experienced a fault and so never needed to use the poor customer service you refer to.
I actually find it scary that people like simesb are listening to this.
Again, buy a £50 plastic lid, you won't be able to cry about it when it doesn't do its job properly.
I think there is a difference between safety and build quality
Can you see the contradiction here? Originally I'm a fool for not believing that an Arai is safer than a HJC/Shark/OCK, and a £50 helmet won't do it's job. Now it's build quality not safety that makes the difference in price.
and you don't think the two are intrinsically linked?
The shark that came out with 5*'s at £50 is not comparable to the OGK - the discussion we are having now is in a different league of helmet to that.
The shark that came out with 5*'s at £50 is not comparable to the OGK
Arais fail because one of the tests goes through the sidepods, so they are claiming poor methodology, OGK have a similar problem. Tell me from the quote above, you now think SHARP has value?
I'm not sure what you mean, to clarify I'd rather wear the OGK any day - they are pretty good helmets - yet they don't even get an appearance?
I've just advocated the point the sharp tests are rubbish, the complete opposite to the point you made??
I'm a little confused with how you came to that?
Geoffrey
04-08-09, 10:05 AM
Arais fail because one of the tests goes through the sidepods, so they are claiming poor methodology, OGK have a similar problem.
and the fact is the side pod is not a protective part of the helmet, it is there to help secure the visor on. these sharp tests are not accurate, there was another thread about this a long time ago which had an article pasted in stating the tests were flawed. This was openly admitted by the people behind the sharp tests, think it was something to do with mis-understand the results. have a search for the thread.
brands like agv, arai, shark, shoei have more racing development behind them, how long ago did you see a top class racer using a FM or Bieffe helmet?
i currently own a shark rsr, i don't care what its sharp rating is. the fact is the helmet fits my head perfectly, it is made by a highly recommended manufacturer, is built to a high standard and a high quality. in a crash it will protect me to its best ability, it is not guaranteed to prevent any head or neck injury.
I think I get it now - what I meant by the shark not being comparable - I didn't mean that in a good way (I'm not damning all sharks to make this clear).
I went from the 5* shark S500 (whichever the budget on that came out top was) to the OGK and the OGK was a far superior helmet to the apparently safer shark - I even tested it out when I was hit by a pheasant square on a 60 mph!
Flymo - the FF4 is good for a 1kg bird impact at 60!!!
Flymo - the FF4 is good for a 1kg bird impact at 60!!!
I'll bear that in mind if I ever come across one.
To be honest if a 1Kg object hit you squarely on the head at 60 mph I would be surprised if you didnt break your neck on a bike regardless of what you were wearing.
there was some pretty bad injuries but I'm still alive thanks to OGK!
Main problem was the front of the helmet is quite close to your chin and it pushed my jaw back and moved a few teeth around, and after all the problems I had with the visor it actually stayed intact and in place.
One hell of a concussion though, happened just outside bath near a place called lakock on a fast bypass, luckily had a pillion who was a rider and got hold of the bars and clutched it to the side of the road (I was old cold on the tank).
not nice
I think this supports the point though that there is a general good level of safety among the products of reputable helmet manufacturers. There is no specific test for 'pheasant impact' but then its just another example that accidents can be very unique in their specific circumstances.
I think the pheasant came off worse, wonder what helmet he was wearing?
If you flying you really should wear a helmet!
John 675
05-08-09, 07:06 PM
For a lid to go on the market, it's has to have one fundimental aspect in comon with all other lids on the market.. If you crash it's saves you.. Once! If you drop it it needs replacing and any brand at any price can provide you with the lid that was assembled last thing on a Friday afternoon :) I like HJC if it's good enough for speis it's good enough for me :)
yorkie_chris
05-08-09, 07:44 PM
I would, however, put money that more people hurt themselves in motorbike accidents from badly fitting helmets rather than wearing a 3 star lid instead of a 5 star.
+1
This is why the SHARP tests are worse than nothing. Because ill informed people will purchase a lid on the strength of a flawed test rather than on fit.
Also, even if the tests were a perfect representation of the quality and survivability of a lid, then they would still not represent the variability of fit. Which by the nature of peoples heads cannot be tested in any way!
A better way to me would be if every lid had to go through some sort of safety testing before it was legal to be used on the road. Oh, wait...
Also, even if the tests were a perfect representation of the quality and survivability of a lid, then they would still not represent the variability of fit. Which by the nature of peoples heads cannot be tested in any way!
A better way to me would be if every lid had to go through some sort of safety testing before it was legal to be used on the road. Oh, wait...
Don't get the argument here...
SHARP is a dangerous test because the helmet fit is a factor, but the ECE 22.05 test (where fit is surely a factor too) is okay?
yorkie_chris
05-08-09, 07:54 PM
FYI I wear a £200 XR1000. I paid that much for the build quality and because I like it.
The £100 caberg V2 it replaced did fine when I accidentally headbutted the floor at 50mph.
In my experience the cheapy brands do not last. Get loose in no time.
This is what you are paying for. Build quality is a perfectly reasonable thing to demand a premium price.
I'm paying 50 quid
Free
Free
Free
Free
So really I think my arai is worth the £50 quid more to me.
So it's not free, is it? You just think that £50 is a reasonable price premium to pay for good build quality and customer service. Which is, a perfectly reasonable premium for arai to demand, and a good decision to make on your part. But not a lot to do with safety.
yorkie_chris
05-08-09, 07:56 PM
Don't get the argument here...
SHARP is a dangerous test because the helmet fit is a factor, but the ECE 22.05 test (where fit is surely a factor too) is okay?
How is helmet fit a factor in SHARP testing? It cannot be tested. The onus to buy a helmet which fits is on the rider.
wooohooo, i'm a winner.. my Bell fits perfect and its got a sharp 5 star rating...
personally i would rather have a £50 helmet that fits properly than a £1000 helmet that fits badly.. it just so happens that Bell helmets have always fitted me well... and i bought my Bell before i new about the sharp rating..
rictus01
06-08-09, 02:20 AM
wooohooo, i'm a winner.. my Bell fits perfect and its got a sharp 5 star rating...
personally i would rather have a £50 helmet that fits properly than a £1000 helmet that fits badly.. it just so happens that Bell helmets have always fitted me well... and i bought my Bell before i new about the sharp rating..
I'm glad your happy and can draw whatever comfort the SHARP test appears to give you, personally I'd just have a helmet that fitted properly first and for most, beyond that finish, durability, after sales service. spares are what I'm interested in.
I'm afraid a galvanized bucket would beat any helmet tested the sharp way and until they make it real world it's pointless.
Cheers Mark.
So it's not free, is it? You just think that £50 is a reasonable price premium to pay for good build quality and customer service. Which is, a perfectly reasonable premium for arai to demand, and a good decision to make on your part. But not a lot to do with safety.
I was saying it could be considered free, as when benchmarked against a £150 lid the extra £50 could be considered as having already been spent on more expensive material and better construction
Talking of fit, and not to keep harping on about Arai, but they will fettle with pads etc till you are happy with the fit. Alright you have to go through a fitting with an Arai specialist then send it back but the whole process only took 1 week. I've said before now I have a helemt that is specific to my head.
To throw in another question - does anyone else here have to go for XS size helemts and found the HUGE jumps between S and XS in most brands. I think arai, shoei and OGK were the only ones to do a half descent variation of sizes at the small end. Was just my experience when shopping with my small head!
I'm afraid a galvanized bucket would beat any helmet tested the sharp way and until they make it real world it's pointless.
Not quite as preposterous a statement as it first sounds. As I stated before, helmets are built to pass tests; the manufacturers could easily build a helmet that would pass all tests whether SNELL, ECE 22.05, or SHARP but they compromise on weight, size, vision, ventilation etc. A metal shell with a foot of padding inside would perform well but would be heavy and not sell well.
Critics of the SHARP test are the paper by Mills (http://www.perg.bham.ac.uk/pdf/Critical_evaluation_SHARP.pdf), some of the helmet manufacturers who have not preformed as expected, and some parts of the motorcycle press - notably the government hating MCN. And these criticisms are limited to the rotational tests.
Mills has a bee in his bonnet about rotational effects in a head injury. Work he has done on the same effects in push cycle accidents has been severely criticised (http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1196.html)for ignoring previous studies and for misunderstanding the mechanics of head injuries. (push cycle studies may not seem relevant to PTW, but a lot of his study is based upon the studies of rotational vs sliding in tennis balls).
Arais (http://www.whyarai.co.uk/sharp.php) respose shows that they compromise one of the testing points for customer safety while performing well in the other areas. This is debatably at odds with the scientific studies of areas of inpact.
A well fitted helmet is going to protect you better then an ill-fitting one. The working life of a helmet is something like 0.01 of a second - it's the many, many hours you wear one for that demands the compromises in safety. It is not right to say that SHARP test have been universally dismissed, but some questions have been asked.
In summary, I wear an Arai Chaser and I am happy to but I still feel that SHARP has merits and shows that safety is not directly related to cost (not commenting upon fit, finish and aftersales). I think it would be great if the helmet manufacturers would agree on tests so that relative safety would be without such arguements, but I fear that certain manufacturers have too much to lose...
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