View Full Version : Your thoughts please - initial market research
You will remember that I've bought a caravan. I'm thinking about buying another to let out, which I think would be sited at Montford Bridge - in fact on the pub campsite by the River Severn, where AR06 was based. Here in Shropshire and mid Wales we have fantastic roads and beautiful scenery, I know I'm biased but we really are spoiled for choice. There's a fantastic ride whatever direction you go in.
So - I'd like your thoughts on whether you think that a long weekend/week in Shropshire in a 4 berth caravan with awning would appeal to bikers generally. The idea would be to provide enough stuff so that people don't need to carry loads of gear. Cost - haven't done the sums in detail but I guess it would be around £350/week, £130 for a weekend, all in.
Thoughts?
Miss Alpinestarhero
28-01-09, 01:50 PM
Sounds reasonable to me. Id happily stay in the caravan for that price.
Shropshire is a really nice place, got some family friends who live there on a farm.
Maria
Wouldn't appeal to me. I would rather rough it in my tent for far cheaper.
madness
28-01-09, 02:07 PM
How much is it to rent a cottage down that way? I rented a 2 person cottage in the Lakes last year for £330. Shropshire doesn't grab me as somewhere anyone would go for a full week, but would probably be good for a weekend.
Ceri JC
28-01-09, 02:18 PM
Wouldn't appeal to me. I would rather rough it in my tent for far cheaper.
+1. Once your tent is set up and you have dumped your stuff, it's not like having carried it is any real hindrance. I'd like comparative luxury if paying anything like caravan prices (Sun Holiday rates excepted!). I'd rather pay an extra £20 per night and have a log cabin and make it really special. There's nowt like sitting on the porch drinking a beer out in the sticks while the bike's engine pings as it cools under the setting sun.
I can think of few things less appealing than a week in a caravan.
Anthrax, maybe?
Gazza77
28-01-09, 02:24 PM
You will remember that I've bought a caravan. I'm thinking about buying another to let out, which I think would be sited at Montford Bridge - in fact on the pub campsite by the River Severn, where AR06 was based. Here in Shropshire and mid Wales we have fantastic roads and beautiful scenery, I know I'm biased but we really are spoiled for choice. There's a fantastic ride whatever direction you go in.
So - I'd like your thoughts on whether you think that a long weekend/week in Shropshire in a 4 berth caravan with awning would appeal to bikers generally. The idea would be to provide enough stuff so that people don't need to carry loads of gear. Cost - haven't done the sums in detail but I guess it would be around £350/week, £130 for a weekend, all in.
Thoughts?
Potentially a good idea, but seems rather pricey for me.
To compare, I've just booked a 3 night stay for two of us in a village pub: £100 for B&B. I'd imagine a 4 berth caravan would be a little cozy for 4 adults + all their kit, so you're probably competing against something similar, and I'd imagine most people would prefer the space of the B&B plus the breakfast for similar money.
Biker Biggles
28-01-09, 02:29 PM
Sounds pricey to me,and as above B&B is more competitive.When you consider that you can get a week in a Med resort for that sort of money it puts it in perspective for me.
Thanks for the feedback, all good stuff. As stated, I ain't done the £££ in detail.
Are there any site rules regarding renting out ? me and the mrs were looking to buy a caravan Kirkcudbright a while ago, but it was pointed out to us that 'noisy' motorcycles and 'motorcyclist,s' were not really encouraged whether they were potentially buying a caravan or renting it out to friends, just a thought.
Balky001
28-01-09, 02:35 PM
I've been looking around at B&B mad hotels for a break at Easter (not biking) with wife and 12 year old daughter and was surprised how expensive a decent hotel out of town is. We looked all around although concentrated on the Yorkshire Dales/Penines and Lake District (for 3 about £800 for 5 days). Caravan's appeal to different types, I know a few people who camp and would not touch a caravan. A week doesn't sound that bad to me but I wouldn't aim specifically at bikers as keep the market open although the awning would be great to cover bikes if going out without them.
Gazza77
28-01-09, 02:43 PM
I've been looking around at B&B mad hotels for a break at Easter (not biking) with wife and 12 year old daughter and was surprised how expensive a decent hotel out of town is. We looked all around although concentrated on the Yorkshire Dales/Penines and Lake District (for 3 about £800 for 5 days). Caravan's appeal to different types, I know a few people who camp and would not touch a caravan. A week doesn't sound that bad to me but I wouldn't aim specifically at bikers as keep the market open although the awning would be great to cover bikes if going out without them.
Balky, give here a try. http://www.bed-and-breakfast-cumbria.co.uk/ We stayed last Easter for 3 nights and it was a fantastic location. :-D
Its about the right price as i was looking at the caravan prices in devon a while back. Caravans have always been on the expensive side compared to things like B&B's etc. A B&B is usualy about £70 per night in most places for a half decent one.
chris8886
28-01-09, 03:01 PM
I've been looking around at B&B mad hotels for a break at Easter (not biking) with wife and 12 year old daughter and was surprised how expensive a decent hotel out of town is. We looked all around although concentrated on the Yorkshire Dales/Penines and Lake District (for 3 about £800 for 5 days). Caravan's appeal to different types, I know a few people who camp and would not touch a caravan. A week doesn't sound that bad to me but I wouldn't aim specifically at bikers as keep the market open although the awning would be great to cover bikes if going out without them.
and i stayed here http://www.swinsidefarmhouse.co.uk/index.html (http://www.swinsidefarmhouse.co.uk/index.html) a couple of summers ago. it was a great place to stay and there is a good pub litterally accross the road that do food and accomodation too.
I've never considered caravanning as a holiday destination. Is it one of those huge mobile homes that doesn't move or is it a caravan such as blocks the road every summer?
If it's a "mobile home", then I would consider it, but if it's a "caravan" then it's not for me - if I'm slumming it, then I'll use a tent otherwise I prefer better creature comforts i.e. something with a decent shower & kitchen.
hth!
Thank you everyone - some interesting opinions - it's very helpful.
Ceri JC
28-01-09, 03:38 PM
Its about the right price as i was looking at the caravan prices in devon a while back. Caravans have always been on the expensive side compared to things like B&B's etc. A B&B is usualy about £70 per night in most places for a half decent one.
I have to disagree; £70 is hotel money and not a bad hotel at that: I'm staying at a 4 star hotel on the royal mile in Edinburgh for £75 in a couple of weeks' time. Decent B&Bs are typically £35-50 per night, depending on their location. Cheap B&Bs can be had for £20-30 (and there are even sub £20 grot-holes).
missyburd
28-01-09, 03:38 PM
Wouldn't appeal to me. I would rather rough it in my tent for far cheaper.
+1, camping all the way for me. However I can see this appealing to certain people.
What is provided with the caravan or what would you be thinking of providing in terms of comforts? I don't really know how these things work when loaned out, but comes with bedding and such I take it?
Balky001
28-01-09, 03:52 PM
thanks for the suggestions Gazza/Chris - all booked now - off to Majorca! Don't ask, it was a little random but our friends have a place. Staung in Lake District in May, in a tent though!
Ed, I think it's definately a plan, how much will it cost to buy the caravan/pitch costs/finance etc - how many weeks would you need to book it out to break even/covering costs and depreciation etc? I know you are at early stages in the planning but I guess profitability is the driver here
Learningcurve
28-01-09, 04:02 PM
regarding the pricing, you need to check out a website called "welcome cottages". You wont believe how cheap you can get a place virtually anywhere in the country.
Weve just booked a week in a two bedroomed cottage in mid wales for £200 all in. we have stayed there before and the place is excellent.
You need to do a lot of research before you commit to see where your competition is coming from.
Ed, I think it's definately a plan, how much will it cost to buy the caravan/pitch costs/finance etc - how many weeks would you need to book it out to break even/covering costs and depreciation etc? I know you are at early stages in the planning but I guess profitability is the driver here
Yes, it is. I'm not interested in ripping people off. The caravan is not new but we would refurb the soft furnishings as they are rather tired. The asking price is £4,000 but I know that the seller will do a deal and is desperate to offload, so I wouldn't expect to pay that.
It's the pitch cost that hurts - any reasonable site charges about £20 - £25 a day in summer (they usually have a base cost and then add a few £ for each person so it tends to vary), rather less of course in spring/autumn. Might be able to negotiate a discount for an entire season.
Plus there's the cost of an awning (ebay:)), and the kit to go inside - as stated above the idea is that people wouldn't need to carry camping stuff, so I'd include sleeping bags, towels, all that sort of thing, insurance, winter storage, and maintenance. I haven't costed all that out yet.
I'm working on a 20 week letting season - who realistically wants to stay in a caravan in winter - and then on 75% occupancy rate.
Will do some more sums.
I've never considered caravanning as a holiday destination. Is it one of those huge mobile homes that doesn't move or is it a caravan such as blocks the road every summer?
If it's a "mobile home", then I would consider it, but if it's a "caravan" then it's not for me - if I'm slumming it, then I'll use a tent otherwise I prefer better creature comforts i.e. something with a decent shower & kitchen.
hth!
Ed, in relation to the above, I can't remember accurate prices... I *think* they're about inline with the type of caravan you've been looking at (if you were to buy a brand new caravan).
Have a look at some of the Haven's etc (like Black Rock sands - Pwhelli). You can buy a static caravan (bigger than your normal caravan) and then rent it out as you please.
If you're not renting it out & no-one is staying in it, the complex themselves will try & rent it out for you at competitive ates - naturally they take a cut for doing this though, but they also clean the caravan etc afterwards.
My kids love Haven (I can't stand it personally & would rather spend a little extra to go overseas), so it would appeal to families, and there's no noise issues as Haven have never complained about my bike - including bouncing it off the rev limiter a fair amount.
Perhaps another avenue to look at?
kwak zzr
28-01-09, 04:44 PM
Ed my folks had a 6berth static in llangynog and i loved it to bits! if i had the dosh i'd get one myself.
fizzwheel
28-01-09, 04:59 PM
I fricken hate camping, and I fricken hate carrying a sh*te load of luggage on my bike as well.
£130 split between four people over a weekend is worth it to me as I dont have to carry to much stuff and I get to sleep in a bed rather than on the floor !!!
I presume this is a static caravan rather than a mobile 4 berth, just being kept at a caravan site?
To give you an idea we stayed in a 6 berth static caravan in pitlochry in 2007. The site is rated 4 star with rediculous amount of facilities and the caravans were completely new with the very latest technology etc. This is a very very popular tourist destination with a purpose built site with pool facilities and other stuff. I.E Not a field behind a pub.
We paid £350 - £400 for a week in peak season.
I presume this is a static caravan rather than a mobile 4 berth, just being kept at a caravan site?
To give you an idea we stayed in a 6 berth static caravan in pitlochry in 2007. The site is rated 4 star with rediculous amount of facilities and the caravans were completely new with the very latest technology etc. This is a very very popular tourist destination with a purpose built site with pool facilities and other stuff. I.E Not a field behind a pub.
We paid £350 - £400 for a week in peak season.
Touring 4 berth
Horses for courses matey. Would that sort of site wwant bikers? Would bikers want that sort of site? This is a proper campsite with facilities that you would expect. You can also buy a day's fishing permit on the Severn for £5. It's not just a field, it's a proper site -- AR06 attendees will remember it. Plus it's Shrewsbury, not Pitlochry.
Horses for courses matey. Would that sort of site wwant bikers?
Eh? Is it the late 70s or something? I thought blind prejudice against anyone on two wheels went out with the ark.
timwilky
28-01-09, 05:56 PM
caravans are for pikeys. I need a nice warm bed, hot bath and room service. a restaurant serving full English etc.
Sorry Ed, the prospect of a caravan has nothing to appeal except as one half of the pre requites for caravan conkers. (well a third as you need a bloody big crane and a second caravan)
gettin2dizzy
28-01-09, 06:15 PM
Sounds too expensive to me tbh. Good idea though.
Eh? Is it the late 70s or something? I thought blind prejudice against anyone on two wheels went out with the ark.
You'd be supprised.
One of the rides I was organising, maybe last year sometime, maybe the year before, I approached a couple of campsites for costs etc. I went to each one on the bike. At least 3 sites said they wouldn't be interested in accepting our group as we would be on "very loud bikes" and would upset/annoy the other guests.
They also assumed we'd be drinking beer & being generally loud all night.
So I thanked them for their time, with a smile, and left. Slipping the clutch a little as I did. :)
yorkie_chris
28-01-09, 10:29 PM
They also assumed we'd be drinking beer & being generally loud all night.
What would make them think that?
been having a think about this one(dont laugh)If the van is a touring type van,then I presume that for it to be a 4 berth,then at least one of the beds will be a double ,and the singles will be put up ,bunk beds.The toilet I presume ,will be a chemical one.For that sort of money ,you can get a decent static ,with real bedrooms and a flush loo.
I was looking into buying two statics recently ,as a better investment than the banks etc.
Most sites will rent them out for you ,for a fee,and will clean them....but
after taking in ,ground rent ,gas,electric depreceation ,Im still not sure it is worth it.
Once your van gets to a certain age , there is nothing to stop the site telling you to vacate ,because your van is no longer up to standard.Then where are you going to put it.Most sites will only take new ones that you purchase from them ,for obvious resons.
Have you thought about renting out tents ,with the offer that everything will be ready when they arrive.Then you only pay out ,when it is in use(ok it may get nicked).
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