The one show... Views on religion. Whats yours?

[ThEGr33k]

Sigh.. apparently the slump in numbers in church isnt because less people believe in god, nope its because we are embarased to talk about it and be assosiated with it. :rolleyes:

I dont want an argument, I dont really care what you have to say as its not likely to effect anyone else. But im going to put a private pole up to see what people's beliefs are (generalised).

Please feel free to talk about it but try to keep it polite.

[Sean_C]

I can respect that people have a belief in something, even if I'm not interested in it at all, or if I think it's stupid/flawed/nonsense. If they are somebody's beliefs they are perfectly entitled to them.
Start pushing them in my face, and I'll be blunt, then rude. And that applies to anything that I'm not a believer in/ interested in etc ;) So no, I don't talk about it really.

[ThEGr33k]

I can respect that people have a belief in something, even if I'm not interested in it at all, or if I think it's stupid/flawed/nonsense. If they are somebody's beliefs they are perfectly entitled to them.
Start pushing them in my face, and I'll be blunt, then rude. And that applies to anything that I'm not a believer in/ interested in etc ;) So no, I don't talk about it really.


This is similar for myself. I try not to be rude but I will tell people im not interested.

Ill admit though that if it makes people feel better and wont impact other peoples lifes then do what the hell they like... be a jedi for all I care ha ha.

[Gene genie]

my children go to a church of england school. i attend a methodist church, albeit on an on and off basis.
i do have beliefs, i believe in doing the right thing. i believe in god. and i sincerely hope that there is something better waiting for me at the end of my existence here.
you did ask.

[Giggsy]

Very touchy subject! I don't knock anyone having beliefs,personally i would like to think there is something better after this life, but if there is a god or whatever,why does terrible things happen to decent people illness and the like,when you get scruffy little scrotes going around robbing old ladies,and stabbing people but to name a few,and nothing seems to happen to these people!
That's the reason why i don't beleive in god or anything, i used to do but certain things happen in your life and you just change.I'll beleive if someone can prove it to me.
Sorry rant over did say it was a touchy subject.:rolleyes:

[the_lone_wolf]

INB4 gettin2dizzy...

[Gene genie]

the get out clause giggsy is god gave man free will. and he shall be made accoutable on judgement day.
life is a test. lets face you were tested last friday.

[Frank]

skyfairies bahhhhh

[Giggsy]

If you call Friday a test i'll hate to see you really tested!;)

[Gene genie]

If you call Friday a test i'll hate to see you really tested!;)
:D

[hovis]

I dont want an argument, I dont really care what you have to say

But im going to put a private pole up to see what people's beliefs are (generalised).


if you dont care............ whats the point of this thread and the poll?

:confused:

[Girth]

I believe not of it and never will.

One question, where's the proof?

[Gene genie]

last say on the matter from me, hands up whos never prayed when their father, mother, gran, gran dad, son or daughter have been severely unwell or even passed away. its them moments when you feel the greatest need.

[the_lone_wolf]

One question, where's the proof?

you fail to understand the religious mind...

the concept of religion holds ignorance of evidence as a good quality, far from being a problem for religious nuts the lack of proof actually makes them feel like they're better for simply having faith in the nothingness

of course the irony is that they can always see how clearly other religions are silly but can't turn that perceptive eye on themselves...


http://breakingspells.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/science-religion.gif

[Giggsy]

Fair point Gene but when you do pray what happens nothing they still die so what's the flipping point, i'll tell you!!!!!!!!
NONE.

[the_lone_wolf]

last say on the matter from me, hands up whos never prayed when their father, mother, gran, gran dad, son or daughter have been severely unwell or even passed away. its them moments when you feel the greatest need.

surely that only highlights a weakness in the mental state of the human being that yearns for a supernatural cuddle and a "it's alright, it'll all be OK" - not that prayer actually works?

[Frank]

absolute load of carp.religion that is

[fizzwheel]

I don't believe in any of it, I used to but now I dont.

I have no problem with people believing in god if thats what they want to, I've seen some churches do a huge amount of good stuff for their local communities but I've seen some very negative things done by people in churches to.

I respect their right to believe, I just wish sometimes people would respect my right not to believe.

[Lissa]

I don't care what people believe as long as they don't try to force their beliefs on to me.

**** off you freak IS likely to offend.

[Lozzo]

I gave up believing in religion at about the same time I found out Santa Claus and the tooth fairy didn't exist either.

[dizzyblonde]

I'm a Jedi knight....look on my facebook thing, you'll see it there too.
In other words I find religion a pretty shady subject to chat about. I poke fun yes, but have very open minded views. My other half is roman catholic, he was sent to a nuns run primary school, he has some very twisted thoughts of religion. I had two muslims at my sons christening, and a buddhist, I was brought up C of E and went to a church school right through til 17.

I very much like to hear the guys at work have discussions about islam. They are willing to answer questions, and also willing to here the views from a christian so to speak. If only the whole world was like this. recently i went to the mosque for a colleagues funeral. There were many there that knew me, and welcomed me, I had the respect to do my homework before i went. If only the world had mutual respect for one another.......

......oh dear i seem to sound like one of those damn hippies!



although I really don't like the JWs knocking at the door and shoving it in my face.

[larigos]

me, elim pentecostal (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&hs=ZFS&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=elim+pentecostal&spell=1) - I can understand about people not liking it being shoved down their face a bit like doule glazzing door to door sales people. We dont tend to do that we tend to do practical stuff for our local community i.e. clearing parks, free santa grotto at christmas, english classes, football for children in summer holidays etc. if they then ask more we tell them, if they dont we dont push it.

[Biker Biggles]

Gosh what a Godless lot we are on here.I will have to enlist a missionary for the org.
We need to take up a position on this.

[Lissa]

Gosh what a Godless lot we are on here.I will have to enlist a missionary for the org.
We need to take up a position on this.

* snigger*

[northwind]

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

[the_lone_wolf]

* snigger*

snigger?

i almost sat tea on my screen


:smt043:smt043:smt043

[ThEGr33k]

I very much like to hear the guys at work have discussions about islam. They are willing to answer questions, and also willing to here the views from a christian so to speak

Aye... but it would be interesting to see what some of the Religions in the middle east think to us "none believers". I think they would be quite willing to kill us for our views.

Its quite a scary thing. Infact, I think they tell people in the forces even if they dont believe, that they should but down a religion as a Atheist is likely to get linched. :(

Hovis, I meant I don't care what they believe in... not that I don't care what their thoughts on the matter are.

[Sean_C]

I think being an atheist is still silly, because they can't prove their beflief either. But that's belief, not faith.
So that makes me agnositc.

[Jester666]

I'm atheist.

I think being an atheist is still silly, because they can't prove their belief either.

I don't need to prove it. I just do not believe in a 'higher' being. ;-)

[BigFootIsBlurry]

Each to their own, if it makes them happy without making others unhappy then they're entitled to do it. I find following scripture to the letter a little odd, especially when some of it downright contradicts itself, I think its much better to have an idea of what is good and what is bad rather than following a book line by line.

[Ping]

I'm a witch.

All your 'one god' malarkey stole our holidays.

*fistshake*

:p

[yorkie_chris]

Dunno, I find it hard to imagine the concept of a total end to my own consciousness. I'm no fanatical believer, nor am I an atheist to the point of near hostility to those who do hold beliefs.
The one thing I do find curious is people blaming religion for the worlds ills, ignoring the good it does do. The good and the bad we are all just people, it doesn't matter what book you hide behind or denounce.

And I do wonder what an atheist thinks on their deathbed.

[ThEGr33k]

And I do wonder what an atheist thinks on their deathbed.

"bah, wish id done that"..?

[BanannaMan]

Yes....I am a Christian. :D
Attend a Baptist Church.
I don't go around shoving it on others or condeming them for their beliefs.
And I don't care what others think or say about it. :p

[Ablazze]

I view religous people like i view star trek convention visitors with a mixture of pity & mistrust.

Jas...

[hob]

And I do wonder what an atheist thinks on their deathbed.

Probably what death will feel like, tbh if all the people that claim they are going to "Heaven" end up in "Heaven" then you're better off in Hell with the cool people anyway, assuming you have chosen the correct God in the first place.

[Speedy Claire]

I have no particular views on religion and don`t attend church myself. However I accept that others are entitled to follow a religion of their choice and that they find great comfort from their faith.

However I work with a nurse who has a strong faith but recently seems to have become almost borderline "obsessed" with trying to convert her colleagues. She is also offering to say prayers and "bless" some of the patients she sees which in my view is inappropriate as I feel she should wait for the patient to first talk about religion before offering her blessings.

Yesterday it came to my attention that a nurse has been suspended for this very same thing so today i`m faced with the task of having to talk to her about it and ask her to be a bit more careful.

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/weston/Nurse-suspended-offering-pray-reports/article-661041-detail/article.html

However I`m not convinced that it was right to suspend the nurse for offering to pray. After all I`m working in an area that has been told we have to allow time during the day for muslims to pray so are we not being slightly bias? The same nurse I work with sometimes goes down to the beach to pray which I admit to turning a blind eye to as in my view it would be discriminatory to allow a muslim time to pray but not a christian?

[madness]

Until someone can catagorically prove the existance of a god/greater being/whatever, I will stay a none believer. However, if people choose to believe in a 'God', I respect that.

[Viney]

All i say is thank god i'm an athiest(sp?)

[STRAMASHER]

I'm In League With Satan/ Riding With The Devil. Well for at least an hour or so daily.

[Ed]

Yes....I am a Christian. :D
Attend a Baptist Church.
I don't go around shoving it on others or condeming them for their beliefs.
And I don't care what others think or say about it. :p


Pretty well the same except I'm a member of the Church of England.

[Foey]

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs & i have no problem with any of it so long as they don't shove it in my face.

May your god be with you as the great Dave Allen used to say.

[fizzwheel]

However I work with a nurse who has a strong faith but recently seems to have become almost borderline "obsessed" with trying to convert her colleagues. She is also offering to say prayers and "bless" some of the patients she sees which in my view is inappropriate as I feel she should wait for the patient to first talk about religion before offering her blessings.

Yesterday it came to my attention that a nurse has been suspended for this very same thing so today i`m faced with the task of having to talk to her about it and ask her to be a bit more careful.

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/weston/Nurse-suspended-offering-pray-reports/article-661041-detail/article.html

However I`m not convinced that it was right to suspend the nurse for offering to pray. After all I`m working in an area that has been told we have to allow time during the day for muslims to pray so are we not being slightly bias? The same nurse I work with sometimes goes down to the beach to pray which I admit to turning a blind eye to as in my view it would be discriminatory to allow a muslim time to pray but not a christian?

This is an interesting situation, Personally I wouldnt have been offended by her offering to pray for me, I would have politely declined it and then brushed it off. I certainly wouldnt have complained about it.

Like you say, you're being told to allow prayer time for other faiths, so whats wrong with a christian doing something similar. I guess it depends on how zealous this particular nurse is, I do find sometimes that somebody who has a very strong faith, wont take no for an answer and I've had to be quite firm with one particular person who wouldnt leave me alone after a few minutes it was necessary to point out to them that if they didnt go away I'd probably be quite rude to them and then they did leave me alone.

I'm guessing though this is just a continuation of the work done by missioinaries in foreign countries in the past.

I dont like Jehovah's witness but I they do have some balls to knock on peoples doors and start preaching at people not knowing what sort of a reaction you're going to get.

[Miss Alpinestarhero]

I dont mind religion. What other people believe in and do is their business. I do feel that religion can often be a major source of conflict though.

However I do mind when people try and force their views upon me. People knowcking on my door to sell their views and not going away when you politely ask them to. Individuals ranting and raving in the middle of a town (or more recently on the tube) does not please me. The woman on the tube was worse because I literally could not escape from her and read my newspaper in my own little world.

[ArtyLady]

Not my kinda thing at all - each to their own though (as long as they don't try to force their views on me)

[dizzyblonde]

Individuals ranting and raving in the middle of a town (or more recently on the tube) does not please me. .

ahhhh yes, we have one of them, comes out particularly around christmas and easter. he may as well be stood there shouting that the world is going to be consumed by a giant ball of fire!! Nobody takes any notice, those that do just laugh at him. Its very very undignified to shout verses from the bible then, rant your own comments. Hes been at it since i was at school, he even has an accomplice somewhere else in town on his days off now, shes an afro carribean looking lady, very large in size, and my oh my, does her voice boom down the precinct!

[the_lone_wolf]

ahhhh yes, we have one of them, comes out particularly around christmas and easter. he may as well be stood there shouting that the world is going to be consumed by a giant ball of fire!! Nobody takes any notice, those that do just laugh at him. Its very very undignified to shout verses from the bible then, rant your own comments. Hes been at it since i was at school, he even has an accomplice somewhere else in town on his days off now, shes an afro carribean looking lady, very large in size, and my oh my, does her voice boom down the precinct!

isn't it strange that if they were claiming the ghost of elvis was telling them to warn people they'd get sectioned:mrgreen:

[dizzyblonde]

yeah but Elvis lives...hes risen from the dead more times than the Lord has managed :-)

or at least been spotted in tesco, Japan, Brazil...been singing in Blackpool for years...hehe

[Woz]

I dont like Jehovah's witness but I they do have some balls to knock on peoples doors and start preaching at people not knowing what sort of a reaction you're going to get.

I love Jehovah's Witnesses. They always seem to have a very attractive girl of JUST about legal age with them (cynical marketing ploy if you ask me). I alway invite the girl into the house while fishing around in my wallet, muttering about condoms. Funny that they suddenly don't want to talk to me anymore.

[ThEGr33k]

Some interesting views, keep them coming. :) The numbers are not quite what I expected to be honest, I mean I expected a fair few to be none believers but not to the extent it is. Personally im happy that its like this. Maybe its the next stage of social evolution?

I love Jehovah's Witnesses. They always seem to have a very attractive girl of JUST about legal age with them (cynical marketing ploy if you ask me). I alway invite the girl into the house while fishing around in my wallet, muttering about condoms. Funny that they suddenly don't want to talk to me anymore.


ha ha, interesting idea. :rolleyes:

[yorkie_chris]

I love Jehovah's Witnesses. They always seem to have a very attractive girl of JUST about legal age with them (cynical marketing ploy if you ask me). I alway invite the girl into the house while fishing around in my wallet, muttering about condoms. Funny that they suddenly don't want to talk to me anymore.

Gutted! There never seems to be any tasty jailbait out with the god-botherers round here. :(

[SoulKiss]

Fsm ftw

[Dangerous Dave]

I dont believe in any of it...

...its all just a load of made up nonsense in my opinion. There is nobody up there watching us or guiding us, you actions are your actions.

[Mogs]

I'm a Christian, if asked I will tell people. I will never "Cold Call" my faith onto anyone.

What suprises me most are all the evangelical atheists, demanding that I don't attempt to convert them while they proceed to convert me.

[ThEGr33k]

I'm a Christian, if asked I will tell people. I will never "Cold Call" my faith onto anyone.

What suprises me most are all the evangelical atheists, demanding that I don't attempt to convert them while they proceed to convert me.


Enlight, not convert :p

Na i dont try to change anyones mind, if me speaking about what my thoughts are on the matter is classed as converting then...doh.

[Viney]

As i once said, to a churchgoing type person. Jesus was a carpenter and is the resurection. If hes that good, can he come resurect my fence?

Wars are caused by a few things, Religioon being one of them. You have to ask, if there was no religion, would there be less wars?

[the_lone_wolf]

What suprises me most are all the evangelical atheists, demanding that I don't attempt to convert them while they proceed to convert me.

i was looking for that "militant atheists" picture with dawkins et al sitting in some chairs to respond to this post when i found something even funnier:

http://ilovecreationscience.wordpress.com

apparently the moon is speaking aramaic*:mrgreen:




*whilst i'm sure this blog must be satirical, the articles it links to aren't:rolleyes:

[yorkie_chris]

I forget the name of it, but there is a creation science forum out there somewhere... and it is without a doubt funny as fook! Lots of rednecks from Georgia going "we ain't from no git damn monkeys"

[the_lone_wolf]

"we ain't from no git damn monkeys"

it would be funny if it weren't such a shame people still think it's true

try explaining the concept of common ancestry to a person blinkered by their local religious FUD spreader and they sort of zone out for a second, as if their minds absorbed the information, then, like a man hammering on the door of his own house because he forgot his keys, their logical brain says "oi you, yeah you, the bit that refuses to let go of superstitious beliefs - it all makes sense, how can you still believe this ****". then ZIP! they pop out of it and move onto another equally invalid claim like "oh evolution is only a theory" - then the whole process repeats itself like a perpetual motion machine with learning difficultiesmrgreen:

[hob]

If anyone wants the best you tube video of someone arguing against science using the bible + sudo science, venomfangX is the ultimate.

No problem with belief, but you can't argue against facts with belief.

WRT wars,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4772142.stm

Damn right there would be less wars.

[Frank]

On the link that Lone Wolf put up ,there is a vid about dinosaurs in the bible.Says it all

[carnivore]

Just be nice to each other or this will happen.............

http://www.cinemaisdope.com/news/films/hell/hell.jpg

Thats the reason for religion, just be nice to one another.

[ThEGr33k]

Thats the reason for religion, just be nice to one another.


Na, religion is a relic left behind from a time when it was used to control people with fear (E.G. Rome used Christianity to regain control ove the people, it was going under before they used the religion). Ofcourse back then people weren't well educated and the simplistic explanations in the bible were good enough for them.

As is said, the more educated a people, the harder they are to control... This I think is becoming truer in Britain and this is why people are becoming less dependant on the Church and a "Greater being". People are more willing to think things through and come up with their own conclusions, and understand other people's. Thus meaning that simplaistic answers arn't enough, so simple they are obviously flawed.

Most people who still do do religion normally drop these simple explanations and idea's, lose anything off of the bible that is obviously wrong and basically follow the core idea's that cant be disproved. The things that take faith alone. This is where you get the split, those that are faithful, blindly I suppose, and those that think "If that bits wrong... who's to say the rest isn't"? I think there are more people now in the latter, as shown in the poll.

I guess ultimatly education is what has undermined religion and the God theory.


Hope that write up didn't offend anyone, it wasnt intended to, it is just how it appears to be.

[jimmy__riddle]

i was looking for that "militant atheists" picture with dawkins et al sitting in some chairs to respond to this post when i found something even funnier:

http://ilovecreationscience.wordpress.com

apparently the moon is speaking aramaic*:mrgreen:




*whilst i'm sure this blog must be satirical, the articles it links to aren't:rolleyes:

that link is amazing, i love how bananas somehow prove atheists wrong!

[Frank]

Na, religion is a relic left behind from a time when it was used to control people with fear (E.G. Rome used Christianity to regain control ove the people, it was going under before they used the religion). Ofcourse back then people weren't well educated and the simplistic explanations in the bible were good enough for them.

As is said, the more educated a people, the harder they are to control... This I think is becoming truer in Britain and this is why people are becoming less dependant on the Church and a "Greater being". People are more willing to think things through and come up with their own conclusions, and understand other people's. Thus meaning that simplaistic answers arn't enough, so simple they are obviously flawed.

Most people who still do do religion normally drop these simple explanations and idea's, lose anything off of the bible that is obviously wrong and basically follow the core idea's that cant be disproved. The things that take faith alone. This is where you get the split, those that are faithful, blindly I suppose, and those that think "If that bits wrong... who's to say the rest isn't"? I think there are more people now in the latter, as shown in the poll.

I guess ultimatly education is what has undermined religion and the God theory.


Hope that write up didn't offend anyone, it wasnt intended to, it is just how it appears to be.
couldnt have put it better

[yorkie_chris]

Greek, it doesn't offend me, but I disagree.

I think you give people more credit than is due, and without a little bit of fear they become practically feral. And in todays society where the rule of law is hardly respected and definitely not feared either, then the demise of religion is no good thing.

[ThEGr33k]

Greek, it doesn't offend me, but I disagree.

I think you give people more credit than is due, and without a little bit of fear they become practically feral. And in todays society where the rule of law is hardly respected and definitely not feared either, then the demise of religion is no good thing.


True true. But that is also down to the police often not having the power to do anything about it and if they can often dont. People arnt scared of the reprocussions because there often arn't any. Also the people who are the problems are generally the ones who have little/no hope so dont care, the types that are brought up with nothing and have no aims in life. The scumm that are the modern chavv/estate bratt (generalising). We need to give them hope and aims... But the government doesnt seem interested in doing this. They are more interested in doing it in other countries. :rolleyes:

Perhapse if these people got hope and fear from Religion they might be better people... I dont know.

[hob]

then the demise of religion is no good thing.

I would be more worried of the person/personality of someone that requires constant fear of an imaginary repercussion to do "good".

I have no fear of "the wrath of 'God' " but that doesn't mean I'm going to go on a killing spree, if that's all that is stopping the demise of modern society we haven't 'evolved' at all.

[yorkie_chris]

No, we haven't evolved, just now our caves have heating and TV.

[hob]

No, we haven't evolved, just now our caves have heating and TV.

he he :D

[dizzyblonde]

No, we haven't evolved, just now our caves have heating and TV.


speak for yourself captain caveman:-D

[yorkie_chris]

And another thing, our society at the minute actively prevents evolution, in fact you could almost say it's forcing de-volution.

For example, people with certain disorders kept alive, having children, ensuring the disorder remains in the gene pool.
The lazy and the stupid kept well fed with plenty time to reproduce, while the intelligent and hardworking have no time to.

Not that I am trying to promote a more barbaric society, but anyone who thinks that they are better than previous generations just because of a different belief system is talking balls!

[hob]

And another thing, our society at the minute actively prevents evolution, in fact you could almost say it's forcing de-volution.

For example, people with certain disorders kept alive, having children, ensuring the disorder remains in the gene pool.
The lazy and the stupid kept well fed with plenty time to reproduce, while the intelligent and hardworking have no time to.

Not that I am trying to promote a more barbaric society, but anyone who thinks that they are better than previous generations just because of a different belief system is talking balls!

Yip,


Although that said, some of the truly "great" people, be it arts/sports/subjects etc come from "normal" or in fact "sub normal" people, strange but true.

[jimmy__riddle]

And another thing, our society at the minute actively prevents evolution, in fact you could almost say it's forcing de-volution.

like that film 'idiocracy'

[ThEGr33k]

And another thing, our society at the minute actively prevents evolution, in fact you could almost say it's forcing de-volution.

For example, people with certain disorders kept alive, having children, ensuring the disorder remains in the gene pool.
The lazy and the stupid kept well fed with plenty time to reproduce, while the intelligent and hardworking have no time to.

Not that I am trying to promote a more barbaric society, but anyone who thinks that they are better than previous generations just because of a different belief system is talking balls!


Indeed. Too true. :(

Simply look at the Fat problem... If that isnt going backwards. :smt104

[hob]

like that film 'idiocracy'

I think Gattaca is a less crap film example :D

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I would be more worried of the person/personality of someone that requires constant fear of an imaginary repercussion to do "good".

I have no fear of "the wrath of 'God' " but that doesn't mean I'm going to go on a killing spree, if that's all that is stopping the demise of modern society we haven't 'evolved' at all.

Noone is born good, anymore than they are born bad*. You need to be taught right from wrong, and if that involves an all powerful deity so be it. The outcome is important, the means are incidental. Something that seems to be forgotten.

*yes yes, save those with mental issues.

[ThEGr33k]

Noone is born good, anymore than they are born bad*. You need to be taught right from wrong, and if that involves an all powerful deity so be it. The outcome is important, the means are incidental. Something that seems to be forgotten.

*yes yes, save those with mental issues.


Aye, tis also true. Some religions of course have the wrong effect, not to name them, we all know what I mean. :mad:

[yorkie_chris]

Judaism?

[Biker Biggles]

Judaism?

Not tonight Ive got a headache.:batman:

[hob]

Noone is born good, anymore than they are born bad*. You need to be taught right from wrong, and if that involves an all powerful deity so be it. The outcome is important, the means are incidental. Something that seems to be forgotten.

*yes yes, save those with mental issues.


I wouldn't class people with mental issues as bad, it is how you act based on knowing what good/bad is that determines if you, yourself are good or bad.

I would say simply explaining to people that killing someone is wrong is a LOT easier and less problematic than giving "interpretive" text of fables/tales, after all I seem to recall "sacrificing your son to God" was ok in the bible, as it was a sign of faith?

Sure a Bible lite {sic} could be generated to highlight the key issues, i.e if Jesus claims an "eye for an eye" is wrong, ditch the old testament, we know the world wasn't created in 7 days etc.

Keep the main points but don't allow any room for alternate interpretation creep in, should the need for a story arise.

[northwind]

Noone is born good, anymore than they are born bad*. You need to be taught right from wrong, and if that involves an all powerful deity so be it. The outcome is important, the means are incidental. Something that seems to be forgotten.

Yup... That's the reason I lasted so long with the church, leaving aside the sky fairy stuff the basic teachings were mainly good rules to live by. But then church of scotland is a pretty easygoing religion, by and large, not very proscriptive.

[the_lone_wolf]

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr243/ktm_wolf/misc/jesus.jpg