Road "Chaos"!

[Berlin]

Having driven around Europe in winter, our laughable road "Chaos" is completely down to the use of inapropriate tyres. I've driven around germany at minus 17 as if it were a normal day. I've driven around Sweden in Febuary as if it was a normal day in snow like we never get.

The roads are fine and the traffic is free flowing and safe.

Virtually all European countries have a law that means you have to change your tyres to winter tyres as autumn end sand you can only change back in spring.

http://www.etyres.co.uk/winter-tyres-law

We are all driving around on tyres like these, that are standard fitment of most rep mobiles and family cars now (and are absolutely useless in snow)...

http://www.dunloptyres.com.au/images/spt_supplied/SP%20Sport01%20200x200%20.jpg

When we should be driving around on something like these...


http://www.tyre-pictures.com/WinterTact/WT80.jpg

And god forbid anyone should actually consider using snow chains!

In reality, most roads have had no more than 2" of snow on then and maybe a bit of slush and with the tyres above on, you'd be driving with plenty of grip.

How many of those people (idiots) on TV that had to spend the night in a shelter last night had a shovel, pieces of carpet, a bag of sand or grit, a warm drink, mars bars, a full tank of fuel and snow chains in the cars before they set out on their ill fated journey?

How many had even one of these items in the boot?

I live in the countryside, I expect snow and bad weather, I bought a Jeep and put good all season tyres on it. I can drive through 2 foot of snow to anywhere.. unless the road is blocked by repmobiles stuck on ice because they have carp tyres on. It only takes one car without winter tyres on to block a road or hill. than then closes the road to everyone.

Isn't it about time we stopped being embarrassed as a nation and started using proper winter tyres like the rest of Europe?

Carl

[Dave20046]

I thought snowchains were illegal in the UK. To be honest most people can't afford to fork out however much for snow and ice tyres just for a couple of weeks per year but I see where you're coming from. I'm with standard michelins I think,reasonable tread and I've been doing alright (not missed a day yet and driving a fair part of my job).

[Dave20046]

Are you coming on the hardy bikers ride out btw berlin?

[Mr Speirs]

Errrr the last time we had snow like this was 18 years ago. It makes no sense for the country to invest in more snow ploughs, more gritters and for ordinary folk to change their tyres or purchase a 4x4 for snow use.

We simply don't usually get these types of weather conditions to warrant massive change so I will keep my normal tyres on and for a couple of days once every 18 years, will admit mother nature has won and instead of going to work I shall build a snowman.

[Berlin]

I am :)

Winter tyres are not just for snow. They use much softer rubber that works in sub zero temperatures (much as racing wets do on a bike compared to Supersports)

They also have the little "slits" as in the tyres above that suck water off wet road and ice surfaces. Adding salt to the road reducts traction by 60%. Using winter tyres takes that back up again so there's hardly any loss. Like using racing wets.

If it was brought in as law, the government could give a grant out to cover some or all of the cost of the tyres (about 120-140 quid for a family car, fitted with cheaper tyres) to prevent all of the loss of earnings and chaos around the country.

In Germany, you have to change on the 1st December. You take your car along to the garage that has been holding your tyres since last year, swap them over and store your summer tyres for you until spring when they change them back again.

Excellent system. Some people put them of a spare set of wheels so they can change and store them themselves.

and the traffic flows freely and there's a distinct lack of "Chaos"

One set of winter tyres will last you 10 years so it works out at about 14 quid a year for free running roads.
C

[Mr Speirs]

Yeah I admit it is a great system for countries where snow in quantities is certain.
I used to love living in Germany you could pretty much know that Summer would be great and winter would be cold and snowy, good old land locked countries.

When did that law come in anyhow in Germany as I don't think it was there when I lived there. We left in 1996.

[John 675]

we should all have one of these :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ9M3P_P9_U

we'd have no problems then lol

[Baph]

(about 120-140 quid for a family car, fitted with cheaper tyres)

I don't know where you get your tyres from, but for my old car (nothing flash, a 2ltr petrol Ford Galaxy), we were getting charged £80 per tyre, for the basic cheepy tyres. I ended up paying almost half again for something reasonable!

As for snow chaos, I don't get it either. Admitedly we've had very little snow here on Anglesey (protected by Snowdonia see), but for the snow we have had, I've still gone out on the bike!!

Taking the kids to school the other morning, I managed to drive past a stranded X5. WTF!?!

[Berlin]

Actually that's my bad, It turns out it's only guidance in germany but I don't know anyone that didn't do it. Its only in mountainous areas where its compulsary. There could well have been a local law in Berlin too as I remember everyone having a two week period to change over. And everyone did.

Even lorries and buses.

The X5 has to be one of the worst offenders as the tyres are so wide they don't cut through the snow. No wonder it was stuck :)

Baph,
I used to use Federal S595's for my Audi V6 and they were £42 each fitted. Superb tyres and available from any of my local garages.

Even Pirelli's winter tyres are only £45 each.

C

[Viney]

Having driven around Europe in winter, our laughable road "Chaos" is completely down to the use of inapropriate tyres. I've driven around germany at minus 17 as if it were a normal day. I've driven around Sweden in Febuary as if it was a normal day in snow like we never get.

The roads are fine and the traffic is free flowing and safe.

Virtually all European countries have a law that means you have to change your tyres to winter tyres as autumn end sand you can only change back in spring.

http://www.etyres.co.uk/winter-tyres-law

We are all driving around on tyres like these, that are standard fitment of most rep mobiles and family cars now (and are absolutely useless in snow)...

http://www.dunloptyres.com.au/images/spt_supplied/SP%20Sport01%20200x200%20.jpg

When we should be driving around on something like these...


http://www.tyre-pictures.com/WinterTact/WT80.jpg

And god forbid anyone should actually consider using snow chains!

In reality, most roads have had no more than 2" of snow on then and maybe a bit of slush and with the tyres above on, you'd be driving with plenty of grip.

How many of those people (idiots) on TV that had to spend the night in a shelter last night had a shovel, pieces of carpet, a bag of sand or grit, a warm drink, mars bars, a full tank of fuel and snow chains in the cars before they set out on their ill fated journey?

How many had even one of these items in the boot?

I live in the countryside, I expect snow and bad weather, I bought a Jeep and put good all season tyres on it. I can drive through 2 foot of snow to anywhere.. unless the road is blocked by repmobiles stuck on ice because they have carp tyres on. It only takes one car without winter tyres on to block a road or hill. than then closes the road to everyone.

Isn't it about time we stopped being embarrassed as a nation and started using proper winter tyres like the rest of Europe?

Carl
It only snows once every 18 years, so there really is no point. It causes a few days of disruption, then everyone is back to normal.

[Luckypants]

Sensible post

Preaching to the converted here fella, I advised the folks living at the bottom of the hill to get some spare wheels from a scrappy and fit some good snow tyres to them. Front only since he has a Clio, will be enough to get him to work in this.

I ride round on these..

http://www.cassidytire.com/images/tires/General_GrabberAT2.gif

But I have a baby 4x4. We made mincemeat out of 6-12 inch deep snow on Monday night.

[petevtwin650]

But I have a baby 4x4. We made mincemeat out of 6-12 inch deep snow on Monday night.

That explains why your Shepherds pie is so watery then LP. :smt040

[Miss Alpinestarhero]

I see your point but it wouldn't be worth investing in something like that unless heavy snow was a regular occurence in the UK.

As someone else said, the last time it was this bad and resulted in people getting stuck was 18 years ago. Ive got normal tyres on my car and managed to get to work fine with careful driving.



How many of those people (idiots) on TV that had to spend the night in a shelter last night had a shovel, pieces of carpet, a bag of sand or grit, a warm drink, mars bars, a full tank of fuel and snow chains in the cars before they set out on their ill fated journey?

How many had even one of these items in the boot?

Very good point indeed. We've all known that this heavy snow was coming yet people went out (most of which were probably unprepeared) anyway :confused:

[Dave20046]

haha I keep meaning to put a shovel in my car but I just can't be ****d. I've put a thick coat in the back though and filled up.

[Paul the 6th]

It only snows once every 18 years, so there really is no point. It causes a few days of disruption, then everyone is back to normal.

aye I think that's the main reason, because it happens for 1-2 days a year on average with the odd year where it lasts for a week or two (like in 94/95? and now...), people just aren't prepared let alone in the know about "snow tyres" or "common sense" like carrying provisions to account for the possibilities of getting stuck... It's the british way though :) it would be too easy if we had public information about "how to get out of snow" or "how to avoid becoming stuck in the snow"...

Don't get me started on the media "There's snow chaos everywhere", the m1 was the quietest I've ever seen it yesterday, it only took 3 hours to get to london from west yorkshire. The media reports it as being horrific for the whole country when really, there's just a small region which has it quite bad.

[Berlin]

We've had snow 7 times this winter.

Last winter we had about the same.

I've rescued 8 neighbours this year so far. All on summer tyres. One wrote off two cars in two weeks. None would have needed rescuing if they'd been using winter tyres.

I live less than 1 mile from the A1 :)

C

[Luckypants]

haha I keep meaning to put a shovel in my car but I just can't be ****d. I've put a thick coat in the back though and filled up.

Shovel, bag of rock salt, torch, hi-vis coat, tow rope, compressor (to pump up tyres if I have to air them down). All goes back in the shed in spring, comes back out again when weather turns nasty.

[timwilky]

When my folks lived in the forest of Bowland, they didn't bother with winter tyres. too much like hard work. Instead they kept a land rover for those few days a year when they couldn't get in/out by anything but helicopter.

Good fun trying to find out where the road ended and the roadside ditch started when trying to see the road by where the hedges may be.

then again they used to have a dirty great diesel generator as the electricity would always be brought down by snow on the wires.

What am I trying to say, the expense you go to is proportional to the risk. In this country for most of us we get 1 or 2 days snow a year. Some parts of the country have had the worse for 18 years apparently. Here it has been far less than last year. and actual fall can be measured in hours not days. currently there is no snow on the ground, green grass all around me)

So unless there is a high risk of snow/ice every year (like in Sweden/Germany etc) why bother with more than minimum risk reduction such as a blanket/shovel in case you get stuck. If like LP or my parents you live in the middle of nowhere and there is a good chance of roads being snowed out every winter then invest in a 4*4 or winter tyres etc.

[petevtwin650]

I've rescued 8 neighbours this year so far. All on summer tyres. One wrote off two cars in two weeks. None would have needed rescuing if they'd been using winter tyres.


C

Can you be sure that they wouldn't have crashed anyway? Obviously never learnt their lesson the first time. People just don't have enough experience of driving in this weather.

[petevtwin650]

Shovel, bag of rock salt, torch, hi-vis coat, tow rope, compressor (to pump up tyres if I have to air them down). All goes back in the shed in spring, comes back out again when weather turns nasty.

Ah, but think about how much extra fuel you are using carting them around. :p

[Berlin]

Local hill, Snow and ice. They slid down, I drove down.. and back up. :)

Heres the advice from the RAC on what to do and what to take.

I have all of these in my car. How many do others have?

Your journey

Tips to make your winter journey as safe as possible.


In poor weather and visibility conditions only make trips that are absolutely necessary.
Ensure you have enough fuel for your journey. Drivers use more fuel when driving in heavy traffic and stop/start conditions.
Before setting out use a windscreen scraper or a de-icer to remove ice from your vehicle. Do not use warm water from a kettle, resulting problems may include a cracked windscreen. Carry a key de-icer with you to clear your lock.
Do not drive with a small hole cut through the ice on your windscreen. The Highway Code states that it is illegal to drive with poor visibility. Ensure all windows and mirrors are completely demisted and totally cleared of ice.
Where possible use major routes, which may have been gritted/salted. Side roads which tend not to be treated may be blocked. In a breakdown situation it will be much harder to call for help and for assistance to get to you.
If you take any medication ensure you have extra supplies if necessary.
Do take a mobile phone if you have one. Remember to ensure the battery is fully charged.
Use your headlights in heavy rain or snow. Do use your fog lights if conditions are poor (eg, visibility less than 100m (328ft)) but remember to turn them off, especially rear fog lights as they dazzle other road users and can obscure your brake lights.
In severe conditions consider telling someone of your departure time, route, destination and estimated time of arrival.
Take some high energy food, such as chocolate, boiled sweets etc.
Carrying a thermos flask filled with hot soup is recommended on longer journeys. If travelling with small babies, ensure they have some of their own food.
Wrap up warm and take a blanket, waterproof clothing and sensible footwear.
Remember to allow more time to brake and accelerate. Leave more room between you and the driver in front and finally do try to be patient.
Extra equipment

Advisable equipment to carry when driving in poor conditions.


Heavy duty jump leads - Take care to follow any instructions issued with the leads. Note: On vehicles using electronic modules to control the ignition incorrect usage of the jump leads could result in the modules being damaged.
A good tow rope - Ensure any towing hooks that some vehicles now use are in the car and that you also know how to remove the plastic cover (often located in the bumper) where the hook screws in. (See owner's handbook for details.)
A good first aid kit.
A high quality torch - Preferably with long life / spare batteries.
An RAC Accident pack, especially a warning triangle.
A fire extinguisher.
Snow chains - Are for use when travelling in an area that experiences prolonged heavy snow fall. Chains only to be used in deep snow.
A spare fuel can.
A light bulb kit and fuse range.
Money or phonecard for emergencies.
A good can of de-icer and a windscreen scraper.
I also have salt, shovel, carpet, two spare floor mats, poncho (in case its tipping it down) soapy water (to wash lights or hands if changing wheels or fixing engines) and a safetly blanket.

[Luckypants]

We've had snow 7 times this winter.

Last winter we had about the same.

I've rescued 8 neighbours this year so far. All on summer tyres. One wrote off two cars in two weeks. None would have needed rescuing if they'd been using winter tyres.

I live less than 1 mile from the A1 :)

C

Aye. 4 times so far this winter I have opened my curtains to see a car in the field opposite, sliding off because they have no grip - and these are locals so should know better! The farmer just comes along with his tractor and pulls em back on the road. Three cars stuck in the dip below my house cause they got down but no traction to climb out. The most embarrassing one was a Freelander, he didn't know how to (or that he needed to) lock the center diff and his tyres were practically slicks! He was livid his 4x4 did not just drive up the snowy hill..............

[Luckypants]

Ah, but think about how much extra fuel you are using carting them around. :p It's a diesel 4x4, fuel consumption is not that good Pete :D. Diesels don't seem to mind extra weight, just extra speed....

[SoulKiss]

It's a diesel 4x4, fuel consumption is not that good Pete :D. Diesels don't seem to mind extra weight, just extra speed....

You would have thought Pete would know this by now :p

[Luckypants]

You would have thought Pete would know this by now :p

I resisted the temptation to take the pee.... glad you didn't, well done!

[Warthog]

that explains why your shepherds pie is so watery then lp. :smt040

hahaha!

[embee]

I'm right behind you there, Berlin.

I worked in Austria and "winter tyres" (not "snow" tyres) were advised. Well more than advised, they weren't mandatory but if you had an accident and didn't have them you were automatically assumed to be at fault and most insurance companies washed their hands. The change date was announced on TV, usually first week of December.

I have a set of Goodyear UG5's on a spare set of wheels for my Yaris. They are brilliant in snow, but more importantly here in the UK they are great on frosty/icy roads and in heavy rain too. Basically below about 7C the rubber works much better than regular tyres. Modern winter tyres are a far cry from the old M&S things of yesteryear. Interestingly I bought them in Austria (cheaper) but they were made her in the UK! If you travel much in winter, I'd recommend winter tyres.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh268/Hi-vis/IMG_3799Small-1.jpg

I fit them when we start getting frosts, start of December usually.

They are not speed limited and not particularly noisy, and fuel economy is the same.

The only problem is that even though I can get traction on the slippery surfaces, I can't get past the abandoned/crashed/stuck cars blocking the road.

[yorkie_chris]

You are just using wrong vehicle, pick one that be chucked over cars!

Shame they're not road-legal, but the other night it was bad enough that no coppers were out...
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5587/dscn1548pl3.jpg

[fizzwheel]

Isn't it about time we stopped being embarrassed as a nation and started using proper winter tyres like the rest of Europe?

Not really no. I havent seen snow like this since I was a nipper. If its that bad that I can't get the car out I dont make the journey I was contemplating. The news and the police were saying the roads were bad and to only go out if your journey was essential. I wander how many of the muppets that got stuck were making "essential" journeys. Its not like the country didnt know the snow was coming either.

Your legislation is just replacing common sense, and I've had a bellyfull of the government doing that already.

Anyways we own a 4 x 4 so getting about hasnt been a problem....