View Full Version : terrible news
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Baby-Mauled-To-Death-By-Family-Dogs-In-Ystrad-Mynach-In-South-Wales/Article/200902115218549
heart goes out to family
timwilky
07-02-09, 02:08 PM
Terrible.
My jack Russell loves our blobs. (Grand children) I could never imagine a JR attacking a baby. A Staff?, No worries I would never leave on in the same room as a child, they are far to temperamental a breed to be trusted.
RIP little one
Speedy Claire
07-02-09, 02:12 PM
Extremely sad... condolences to the family and RIP little one x
shonadoll
07-02-09, 02:14 PM
So sad, just awful. NO dogs should be left unsupervised with babies.
RIP little one.
Terrible.
My jack Russell loves our blobs. (Grand children) I could never imagine a JR attacking a baby. A Staff?, No worries I would never leave on in the same room as a child, they are far to temperamental a breed to be trusted.
RIP little one
sorry, i have to disagree, my jack russel was a nasty little thing, (if he was provoked) very playful, but if you were to upset him, he would attack. he bit me a few times, my own fault for winding him up (found him as a stray, as he had been abandand, which may be why he could turn nasty,)
whereas the 4-5 mates i have with staffs have never had any probs........
i dont think there is such a thing as a dangerous breed, all dogs have the ability to kill a baby/child (IMO)
missyburd
07-02-09, 02:48 PM
You'd think, with the numerous stories in the news about aggression in Staffies, that people would know better than to have one in the same house with a small child let alone a room. Before I get inundated with Staffie owners saying how their dogs would never hurt a fly, I have an Alsatian and although he can be the softest thing, I still wouldn't even contemplate leaving a child in the same room as him.
Children and adults are seen differently to dogs, the whole dominance thing comes into play. Whereas some dogs will almost mother a small child, others will see a child as a potential threat, there is always that risk. Just because all seems hunky dory from an adults point of view, as soon as your backs turned anything could happen, you just can't take that risk.
Very sad story :( Rest in peace little one.
i dont think there is such a thing as a dangerous breed, all dogs have the ability to kill a baby/child (IMO)
Very true but some are worse for it than others.
21QUEST
07-02-09, 03:20 PM
Terrible.
My jack Russell loves our blobs. (Grand children) I could never imagine a JR attacking a baby. A Staff?, No worries I would never leave on in the same room as a child, they are far to temperamental a breed to be trusted.
RIP little one
Such an ignorant post. Have you had any actual experience with Staffords?
Ben
21QUEST
07-02-09, 03:23 PM
You'd think, with the numerous stories in the news about aggression in Staffies, that people would know better than to have one in the same house with a small child let alone a room. Before I get inundated with Staffie owners saying how their dogs would never hurt a fly, I have an Alsatian and although he can be the softest thing, I still wouldn't even contemplate leaving a child in the same room as him.
Children and adults are seen differently to dogs, the whole dominance thing comes into play. Whereas some dogs will almost mother a small child, others will see a child as a potential threat, there is always that risk. Just because all seems hunky dory from an adults point of view, as soon as your backs turned anything could happen, you just can't take that risk.
Very sad story :( Rest in peace little one.
Very true but some are worse for it than others.
I realise you qualified your statement but still.....As you probably know , Alsatians, just to name one breed, have been responsible for more bites on humans than Staffords.
Ben
madness
07-02-09, 03:30 PM
ALL dogs are descended from wolves/wild dogs and as such are bound to have some sort of inbred 'killer instinct'. I personally think that breeds of dogs which have been purposefully bred for killing and fighting, which both Jack Russells and Staffordshire Bull Terriers are, will always be prone to acts of aggression. It's in the genetic make up. But as has been posted previously, no dog should be left alone with very young children.
jimmy__riddle
07-02-09, 03:33 PM
staffies are naturaly a well tempered breed, but they seem to get taken up by chavs who train them badly.
Jack russells are one of the worst for agression.
21QUEST
07-02-09, 03:34 PM
Below are the breeds responsible for most attacks on Royal Mail employees last year...according to the Royal Mail Courier. Perhaps Kwak might confirm it.
I can't see any of the so called 'dangerous breeds' listed there.
German Sherperds's - 247
Jack Russel's - 192
Border Collie's - 182
Labrador's - 78
Rottweiler's - 45
Boxer's - 21
Doberman's - 12
Ben
missyburd
07-02-09, 03:35 PM
I can't see any of the so called 'dangerous breeds' listed there.
That's because they are locked away at the back of the house :p
I wouldn't trust my cat left alone with a baby. You should see the state of my arm from a totally unprovoked attack from him this week. I've had to warn the local children to keep away from him cos he'll just turn on you.
RIP.
yorkie_chris
07-02-09, 03:39 PM
RIP
Seems strange how some dogs will tolerate a fair level of being annoyed by kids and never turn, and form a strong protective bond... where others will turn nasty unprovoked.
21QUEST
07-02-09, 03:41 PM
ALL dogs are descended from wolves/wild dogs and as such are bound to have some sort of inbred 'killer instinct'. I personally think that breeds of dogs which have been purposefully bred for killing and fighting, which both Jack Russells and Staffordshire Bull Terriers are, will always be prone to acts of aggression. It's in the genetic make up. But as has been posted previously, no dog should be left alone with very young children.
Staffords did other tasks aprt from fighting. As is usually the case, a lot of people DO NOT understand that there is a difference between agression towards other animals and aggression towards humans.
When Staffords where fought, do people think the dogs were just chucked in a cage and left to it? :rolleyes:
I can say now that, a lot of the people who 'ignorants' might see as 'boneheads' would not tolerate human agression from Staffords. Compare that to any of the other fluffys owned by seemingly upstanding members of society.....who haven't got a clue.
Ben
21QUEST
07-02-09, 03:42 PM
That's because they are locked away at the back of the house :p
Now that made me burst out laughing :lol: ...nice one :mrgreen:
Ben
madness
07-02-09, 03:42 PM
Animals have personalities just like humans do. Some are nasty and others are nice. There is no way of knowing what sort of dog a pup is going to turn into. It's not all about how you train them.
yorkie_chris
07-02-09, 03:44 PM
On similar note, how many people would think of a rotty as a herding dog...
Round here, most of the people who own staffys are dolescum who want one to look 'ard, and have no idea how to train a dog. That's why they're dangerous!
As for labs attacking postmen, the number is probably due to labs being most common dog around.
21QUEST
07-02-09, 03:45 PM
Damn....I've just come across like I don't give a damn about what happend to the baby :oops:
RIP little one :(
Ben
madness
07-02-09, 03:47 PM
When Staffords where fought, do people think the dogs were just chucked in a cage and left to it? :rolleyes:
Ben
Staffordshire Bull Terriers were bred to bring down bulls weren't they? Not to fight other dogs. The bulls where generally tethered on the local village green. There are still a few 'bullrings' about.
21QUEST
07-02-09, 03:47 PM
staffies are naturaly a well tempered breed, but they seem to get taken up by chavs who train them badly.
Jack russells are one of the worst for agression.
Yes, definitely agree that Staffords seem to attract a big percentage(one is too big ) of idiots.
Ben
missyburd
07-02-09, 03:48 PM
I realise you qualified your statement but still.....As you probably know , Alsatians, just to name one breed, have been responsible for more bites on humans than Staffords.
That's what the stats show yes. However, you cannot compare the bites a postie gets with actual mauling to death of a human in their own home. Posties get bitten so much because they are entering a dog's territory, the dog only acts in defence of its home. Yes it is the owner's responsibility to not have dog running about loose in the garden unsupervised but I don't see the comparison.
Besides which, the stats you've showed don't seem to include many small dogs, I know for a fact that little snappers are a pain in the ar$e with posties but I'm assuming those incidents just don't get reported as much. The amount of damage caused by a Rottweiler is obviously going to be significantly worse than by a little Yorkie. . But then it's always the bigger dogs that are used as guard dogs. You rub a Husky or Labrador the wrong way and they can still get you on the floor :smt102
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Baby-Mauled-To-Death-By-Family-Dogs-In-Ystrad-Mynach-In-South-Wales/Article/200902115218549
heart goes out to family
Hazel
I am soo annoyed at you. I thought there really was some terrible news
I understand this story might have touched a nerve with you in your situation but if someone that I've had nothing to do with is stupid enough to leave a couple of Dangerous Dogs unattended with a baby, then I am sorry but I don't have a lot of sympathy fo the family concerned.
Apologies to anyone who is closely related to the story.
But Hazel you scarred me :neutral:
shonadoll
07-02-09, 04:09 PM
Staffies are great dogs, as are GSD's but you can't take the risk with any dog. I love my dogs to bits but they are animals at the end of the day.
Working in a vets the most aggressive dogs tend to be yorkshire terriers, jrts, and the tiny breeds. Rotties, staffies, and GSD's are usually much less aggressive.
shonadoll
07-02-09, 04:12 PM
Damn....I've just come across like I don't give a damn about what happend to the baby :oops:
RIP little one :(
Ben
No you haven't- and you have made some very valid points.
Gene genie
07-02-09, 04:16 PM
is it so cruel to muzzle a dog?
how can such a simple solution go unoticed?
playtime now little one. rip.
21QUEST
07-02-09, 04:18 PM
Animals have personalities just like humans do. Some are nasty and others are nice. There is no way of knowing what sort of dog a pup is going to turn into. It's not all about how you train them.
Quite right there....it's not all about training.
Ben
21QUEST
07-02-09, 04:26 PM
On similar note, how many people would think of a rotty as a herding dog...
Round here, most of the people who own staffys are dolescum who want one to look 'ard, and have no idea how to train a dog. That's why they're dangerous!
As for labs attacking postmen, the number is probably due to labs being most common dog around.
To be honest, in reality, there are better dogs out there for 'ardness.
Again, Staffords are no more dangerous than any other breed of dog if we are to be truly objective.
As for Labs being the most common dog around, I suspect, there are more Staffords registered each year with the Kennel Club.....and that's before you get to those that aren't.
Ben
missyburd
07-02-09, 04:28 PM
and that's before you get to those that aren't.
I doubt the majority of Staffie owners even have a clue about what the Kennel Club is, they probably think Crufts is some sort of venereal disease :rolleyes: :p
21QUEST
07-02-09, 04:32 PM
No you haven't- and you have made some very valid points.
Thank you Shonadoll....genuinely appreciated.
Ben
21QUEST
07-02-09, 04:35 PM
I doubt the majority of Staffie owners even have a clue about what the Kennel Club is, they probably think Crufts is some sort of venereal disease :rolleyes: :p
Well, I have not much time for the kennel Club(and dog showing in general) myself....but that's another story lol :mrgreen:
Ben
Balky001
07-02-09, 05:58 PM
RIP - that's awful news
Different breeds do have different traits. We had a Japanese Akita who was lovely but when we had Jessica the dogs are so highly strung I could not risk ever leaving him with her. He was lovely but would 'ignore' the baby but keep close) which is often a bad sign. We ended up giving him to some friends. Considering how few Akita's are owned by non-enthusiasts, they have appeared in a relative high number of incidents. Jack Russells and Staffs do have their own personality traits in general terms
missyburd
07-02-09, 06:05 PM
RIP - that's awful news
Different breeds do have different traits. We had a Japanese Akita who was lovely but when we had Jessica the dogs are so highly strung I could not risk ever leaving him with her. He was lovely but would 'ignore' the baby but keep close) which is often a bad sign. We ended up giving him to some friends. Considering how few Akita's are owned by non-enthusiasts, they have appeared in a relative high number of incidents.
That's funny, I mentioned Akitas in one of my posts but deleted it. They're apparently a very "devoted" breed and are extremely protective of family and home, I've heard of a few incidents with them.
jimmy__riddle
07-02-09, 06:12 PM
That's funny, I mentioned Akitas in one of my posts but deleted it. They're apparently a very "devoted" breed and are extremely protective of family and home, I've heard of a few incidents with them.
Akitas are arguably the most loyal breed. the japanese used them to babysit, but then again, they also used them for bear hunting!
Funny thing that Staffs are known as a 'nanny-dog', and while I don't have a lot of time for the KC, they do list them as one of the 2 breeds to be good with kids.
It has to be said that no mention was given to how it may have started, suggesting the stupid woman wasn't even in the room. If the child was swinging a rattle, or toy around and the dogs thought it was a game and decided to play tug it was likely an innocent victim of the game out of hand as opposed to an intentional attack on the child.
Conclusion - the grandmother is a moron!
I should add that I have 2 staffies, and have had them with Liam from being a baby - never a problem - and wonderful for taking care of baby food spillages! My staffies love babies and kids - still wouldn't leave them alone with a kid unable to understand animals possible reactions though!
I feel for the parents.
Dave20046
07-02-09, 06:28 PM
I think missyc got it right the first time however much you trust your dog never leave it alone with a baby or young child.
shonadoll
07-02-09, 06:58 PM
That's funny, I mentioned Akitas in one of my posts but deleted it. They're apparently a very "devoted" breed and are extremely protective of family and home, I've heard of a few incidents with them.
One of our vets was attacked by one. She said the scary thing was, the dog went from fine to attack mode, with ZERO warning, no hackles raised, growl, anything.
It's probably the only breed I'm very very wary of, I think they are lovely dogs, but again, owned by the wrong people because they want a *tough* image.
shonadoll
07-02-09, 06:59 PM
Funny thing that Staffs are known as a 'nanny-dog', and while I don't have a lot of time for the KC, they do list them as one of the 2 breeds to be good with kids.
It has to be said that no mention was given to how it may have started, suggesting the stupid woman wasn't even in the room. If the child was swinging a rattle, or toy around and the dogs thought it was a game and decided to play tug it was likely an innocent victim of the game out of hand as opposed to an intentional attack on the child.
Conclusion - the grandmother is a moron!
The baby was 12 weeks old, not a toddler, I thought?
they probably think Crufts is some sort of venereal disease :rolleyes: :p
I'm sure that's what the doc told me I caught off Bendy Wendy a couple of years back
tanis34
07-02-09, 07:40 PM
look at my avatar thats my staff he is a great family dog but i would not leave him unsupervised with a baby not because he would bite but he is too boistious and could hurt by accident
rip little one forever playtime for u
yorkie_chris
07-02-09, 08:31 PM
To be honest, in reality, there are better dogs out there for 'ardness.
Again, Staffords are no more dangerous than any other breed of dog if we are to be truly objective.
As for Labs being the most common dog around, I suspect, there are more Staffords registered each year with the Kennel Club.....and that's before you get to those that aren't.
Ben
Straight from the horses mouth (http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/887)
I agree there is no such thing as an inherently dangerous dog.
Staffordshire Bull Terriers were bred to bring down bulls weren't they? Not to fight other dogs. The bulls where generally tethered on the local village green. There are still a few 'bullrings' about.
wrong.Staffs were bred to fight in a pit.The owners would also be in the pit ,and any dog that bit a human were destroyed.By this very act the aggresion towards humans was bred out.Have you seen the breed standard for Staffies.I ve bred them for 15 yrs.This is the sort of twoddle that realy gets on my wick.
No dog should be left alone with a young child.
RIP little one
Hazel
I am soo annoyed at you. I thought there really was some terrible news
I understand this story might have touched a nerve with you in your situation but if someone that I've had nothing to do with is stupid enough to leave a couple of Dangerous Dogs unattended with a baby, then I am sorry but I don't have a lot of sympathy fo the family concerned.
Apologies to anyone who is closely related to the story.
But Hazel you scarred me :neutral:
i fail to see why I annoyed you Stu.:confused: I dont see these as "Dangerous Dogs" but more the family dogs. But despite the grandmother leaving the baby in the room with the dogs (we dont know why she did this or how long she was out the room) a baby has died, a mum and dad have lost their only child, a grandmother will never get over this, whether you know them personally or not this is a really sad thing.:( This is all I was saying.
RIP
Stu.. a bit harsh there mate?
I am surprised and saddened every time a news report like this comes up. Any vet will tell you that any dog is an animal with animal instincts. What may trigger off an "attack" could be any number of things related to you getting in the way of its food, or a pack instinct that it feels itīs necessary to dominate itīs pack.
Ben,.. German Sheppard’s are most definitely up there on the dangerous animals list, after all they are pedigree. At the risk of generalising you can pretty much count all pedigree breads as dangerous and unpredictable.
Itīs a simple fact you don’t leave a dog unattended with an infant. They are bigger, stronger and have a lot more teeth.
i fail to see why I annoyed you Stu.:confused: .
No, it was the thread title.
I just got worried that you really did have some terrible news.
Lets be clear though that it's the owners responsibility to train a dog!!
Dogs by themselves are not dangerous and all this about dangerous breeds it's just a stupid database exercise like many in the UK.
Obviously you don't leave a dog with a newborn! That is just plain irresponsible but blaming the dogs for what happened is just naive.
RIP little one
Alpinestarhero
08-02-09, 10:45 AM
oh god, im not even gonna read the article
:(
I'm slowly learning to trust dogs, but then you hear news stories like this and remember that sometimes there are owners who shouldnt really have a dog because they dont train them to be good dogs, they just butter them up for a good ol' fight
and the problem is, I cant tell which dogs are nice and which are bad, unless i know the owners or watch the dogs for a while and see how they interact with other people
missyburd
08-02-09, 10:48 AM
Well both dogs have been destroyed now. RIP doggies.
Gene genie
08-02-09, 10:56 AM
Well both dogs have been destroyed now. RIP doggies.
they were dangerous animals myc, what did you expect?
missyburd
08-02-09, 10:59 AM
they were dangerous animals myc, what did you expect?
Oh yes I'm well aware of that, I can still say RIP though ;)
Alpinestarhero
08-02-09, 11:13 AM
they were dangerous animals myc, what did you expect?
+1. Although isn't it odd how we have an alternate view on putting violent humans "to rest"....
can of worms there
Well both dogs have been destroyed now. RIP doggies.
:(
i always think it a bit sad when dogs are put to sleep over this, as i feel the person in charge has to take some of the blame.
:(
i always think it a bit sad when dogs are put to sleep over this, as i feel the person in charge has to take some of the blame.
i can't help but agree with you Hovis
missyburd
08-02-09, 11:22 AM
Ok, yes they were dangerous and yes they deserved to be put down, I'm not disputing that in the slightest. At the end of the day they were both someone's beloved pets though, I'd be very upset if this was a situation I had been involved in and I would be blaming myself constantly. OBVIOUSLY the death of the dogs doesn't mask the fact that a little innocent child has had such an early end to his life, that is the greatest tragedy of all :-(
Speedy Claire
08-02-09, 11:36 AM
:(
i always think it a bit sad when dogs are put to sleep over this, as i feel the person in charge has to take some of the blame.
Well they do say there`s no such thing as a bad dog.... just bad owners!
Gene genie
08-02-09, 11:36 AM
Ok, yes they were dangerous and yes they deserved to be put down, I'm not disputing that in the slightest. At the end of the day they were both someone's beloved pets though, I'd be very upset if this was a situation I had been involved in and I would be blaming myself constantly. OBVIOUSLY the death of the dogs doesn't mask the fact that a little innocent child has had such an early end to his life, that is the greatest tragedy of all :-(
+1.
why do people continue to put childrens lives at risk when there have been too many cases like this happening, beggers belief.
sorry myc if i sounded abrupt, knee jerk reaction on my behalf.
missyburd
08-02-09, 11:42 AM
+1.
sorry myc if i sounded abrupt, knee jerk reaction on my behalf.
no worries, I thought someone might post something similar :-P
Abit like people that leave their child alone in a garden to drown in the pond.And then say "but the pond has never done anything like this before".Dont be stupid...dont do it!
i can't help but agree with you Hovis
Me too.
Dogs are dangerous.
They are trained not to be. Dogs can be highly trained and still disobey commands that doesnt mean that its the owners fault that they were not trained.
It is however the owners fault to leave them unattended with an infant.
The tradgedy here is that three lives have been lost due to the careless owners actions.
I grew up with a nasty jr, was NEVER bitten/attacked by him-why?? was never let alone with him, when i was learning to crawl etc he was kept outside etc.
Even our current jr-big softie but we wouldnt leave him alone with my cousins little one as he gives the baby a "look" and defiantly gets jealous when we pay the baby attention when he starts to cry etc.
NO dog should ever be left aone with a small child or baby, regardless of breed and wether they are good tempered or not
jimmy-james
09-02-09, 02:13 AM
Parents should be strung up for being so irresponsible, stupid people. Kids of that age should be in a cot if unnatended with or without dogs around. RIP dogs and little one!
Staffies are ace dogs, my mate has one and a toddler and they get on and play all the time its great to watch!
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