View Full Version : What 4*4
Gazza77
10-02-09, 10:57 AM
Having had one too many days of being unable to move my car (MX5) due to the snow, I have decided it is time to look for another car more suited to my requirements.
I'm looking for something with a decent boot (big enough to carry a few sacks of coal/horse feed/poultry feed/junk to the tip etc, with good ground clearance to get up and down the track and narrow roads round my house. I also want something that will tow a large trailer if required, and possibly a caravan, which is leading me to think of a 4*4.
I'm looking at around £7k to spend, and have seen a 55 plate Nissan X-trail 2.2dci for that. Anyone any thoughts on them? Or alternatives? Freelander? RAV4? Honda CRV? Anything else?
Dave20046
10-02-09, 11:03 AM
Having had one too many days of being unable to move my car (MX5) due to the snow, I have decided it is time to look for another car more suited to my requirements.
I'm looking for something with a decent boot (big enough to carry a few sacks of coal/horse feed/poultry feed/junk to the tip etc, with good ground clearance to get up and down the track and narrow roads round my house. I also want something that will tow a large trailer if required, and possibly a caravan, which is leading me to think of a 4*4.
I'm looking at around £7k to spend, and have seen a 55 plate Nissan X-trail 2.2dci for that. Anyone any thoughts on them? Or alternatives? Freelander? RAV4? Honda CRV? Anything else?
I quite like the xtrail plenty of power and quite nice, I'd consider the crv too for honda reliability.
fizzwheel
10-02-09, 11:05 AM
What about a Disco or a Landrover, if you want proper 4 x 4 capability you need a proper 4 x 4, not a pretend one.. After talking to me brother I'd be inclined to stay away from a RAV4, he used to work for Toyota and said they're a pile o cack.
Dave20046
10-02-09, 11:09 AM
What about a Disco or a Landrover, if you want proper 4 x 4 capability you need a proper 4 x 4, not a pretend one.. After talking to me brother I'd be inclined to stay away from a RAV4, he used to work for Toyota and said they're a pile o cack.
Wouldn't they be crappy round town though? If he's made do with a hairdressermobile probably won't need a full on tank.
is it worth spending 7k on a 4x4 ?, just for the sake of 1 weeks bad weather,
the extra road tax and fuel will cost more per month plus in 2 years it will probably be worth less than half what you paid?
why not just get somthing a bit more practical?
ford mondao?
Gazza77
10-02-09, 11:12 AM
What about a Disco or a Landrover, if you want proper 4 x 4 capability you need a proper 4 x 4, not a pretend one.. After talking to me brother I'd be inclined to stay away from a RAV4, he used to work for Toyota and said they're a pile o cack.
It's a balance between potential use and size, etc due to parking restrictions, etc. Most use will be on road. A decent estate would probably suffice, but they don't have extra ground clearance. 4*4 would be an advantage, but probably not essential as i'm unlikely to head off road any further than carts tracks etc. Both the X-trail and the Freelander are supposedly decent off road anyway, if not as good as something bigger and certainly better than the RAV4 or CRV.
Gazza77
10-02-09, 11:14 AM
is it worth spending 7k on a 4x4 ?, just for the sake of 1 weeks bad weather,
the extra road tax and fuel will cost more per month plus in 2 years it will probably be worth less than half what you paid?
why not just get somthing a bit more practical?
It's the weather that has just tipped it to be honest, it's not just that. The MX5, much as I love it, is no use for the two of us. On my own it was great, but I now find I can't get a weeks worth of food shopping in it, I ground it all the time as I drive up and down from the house and as for carrying anything else..... no hope. I'm becoming dependent on borrowing a car whenever I need one rather than using my own, and it's driving me up the wall! It will be kept for a good few years (the MX5 has been mine for 6.5 years and I hope to keep it as a toy) so depreciation isn't a huge factor.
Landrover 110. If you are going to get a 4x4, then get a proper one, none of these tarted up over grown wannabies. Get the diesel one as well.
Just because it says 4x4 on it doesnt mean its any good in the snow/mud etc. If you must get a Soft roader the Xtrail is ok as well as the Rav4 or how about a Shogun. What you really want is a '74 lightweight Landrover 90 with a TVR or Overfinch conversion :)
Or if you just want a 4x4 car based htingy, then a Volvo V70 AWD or the Audi A6 Allroad? Both capable off road with a little more ground clearence than a std car?
dirtydog
10-02-09, 11:32 AM
A decent estate would probably suffice, but they don't have extra ground clearance.
What about a Subaru Forrester or one of them volvo v70 (i think) cross country? Both are AWD and extra clearance than a standard estate
have you concidered(?) just getting a bigger car?
you can get 05 ford mondeo for about ½ of what your willing to spend on a 4x4
Gazza77
10-02-09, 11:38 AM
Landrover 110. If you are going to get a 4x4, then get a proper one, none of these tarted up over grown wannabies. Get the diesel one as well.
Just because it says 4x4 on it doesnt mean its any good in the snow/mud etc. If you must get a Soft roader the Xtrail is ok as well as the Rav4 or how about a Shogun. What you really want is a '74 lightweight Landrover 90 with a TVR or Overfinch conversion :)
Or if you just want a 4x4 car based htingy, then a Volvo V70 AWD or the Audi A6 Allroad? Both capable off road with a little more ground clearence than a std car?
Whilst one of those might be good as a toy, I'm thinking long distance journeys/motorways etc might not be so hot. ;) To compare v the mud & snow, most of my driving of late has been in a borrowed Shogun Sport. Where I cannot move the MX5, I have been able to get without actually engaging all wheel drive; the off roading part is not a huge issue, but most of the other requirements are best met by a "SUV" as far as I can see.
What about a Subaru Forrester or one of them volvo v70 (i think) cross country? Both are AWD and extra clearance than a standard estate
Good thinking. That's another couple to look at.
jimmy__riddle
10-02-09, 11:38 AM
What about a Subaru Forrester or one of them volvo v70 (i think) cross country? Both are AWD and extra clearance than a standard estate
yeah i would say a forrester, not too big, higher than a normal estate
Luckypants
10-02-09, 11:40 AM
I have an X-trail and it is IMO the best baby 'soft-roader'. I bought it for similar reasons to you, a bit of snow, visiting friends farms, getting into the field with a trailer and coping with muddy lanes - so a full size 4x4 was not needed. I have had 3 full size 4x4 in the past so was able to make a valid comparison.
As a car it is fine, comfortable, roomy, reasonably quick but due to long (ish) travel suspension it rolls a bit in the bends. Up side to the suspension is it copes far better off-road than say a RAV4 which has more road bias. It is ok for fuel consumption but with the price of diesel relative to petrol, the 2.5 petrol would be my choice now. (not much in it though)
As a 4x4 the machine is good. I leave it in 'Auto' mode most of the time, which uses FWD unless wheel slip is detected. This makes it suprisingly grippy. Off-road it is limited by the lack of a low-box and the drive train. Drive to the rear is by an electronic clutch, so this can overheat when really off-roading. On rough tracks it is fine, but a lot of green lanes are beyond it's capabilities.
In snow it is superb. It is lighter than a full size 4x4 by a good ton, so has less inertia and so less likely to slide. Use the 'Lock' mode 4x4 to send power to rear wheels all the time and it just keeps going if you know how to use the throttle properly (be gentle and keep the engine off-boost). This week I have made it through 8-12 inch deep snow with no real drama. (see posts elsewhere)
The standard tyres are useless off tarmac (inc. snow) so change them.
Great motor for towing to.
HTH
Gazza77
10-02-09, 11:40 AM
have you concidered(?) just getting a bigger car?
you can get 05 ford mondeo for about ½ of what your willing to spend on a 4x4
Yes I have. It doesn't have the extra ground clearance, is unlikely to be as happy stacking 50kg bags of animal feed in the boot and I happen to like the elevated driving position, having been using a Shogun and a Land Cruiser lately, though I'd prefer something a little shorter.
Plus, no offence to Mondeo drivers, but I'd rather walk than own one of those. :p
Gazza77
10-02-09, 11:42 AM
I have an X-trail and it is IMO the best baby 'soft-roader'. I bought it for similar reasons to you, a bit of snow, visiting friends farms, getting into the field with a trailer and coping with muddy lanes - so a full size 4x4 was not needed. I have had 3 full size 4x4 in the past so was able to make a valid comparison.
As a car it is fine, comfortable, roomy, reasonably quick but due to long (ish) travel suspension it rolls a bit in the bends. Up side to the suspension is it copes far better off-road than say a RAV4 which has more road bias. It is ok for fuel consumption but with the price of diesel relative to petrol, the 2.5 petrol would be my choice now. (not much in it though)
As a 4x4 the machine is good. I leave it in 'Auto' mode most of the time, which uses FWD unless wheel slip is detected. This makes it suprisingly grippy. Off-road it is limited by the lack of a low-box and the drive train. Drive to the rear is by an electronic clutch, so this can overheat when really off-roading. On rough tracks it is fine, but a lot of green lanes are beyond it's capabilities.
In snow it is superb. It is lighter than a full size 4x4 by a good ton, so has less inertia and so less likely to slide. Use the 'Lock' mode 4x4 to send power to rear wheels all the time and it just keeps going if you know how to use the throttle properly (be gentle and keep the engine off-boost). This week I have made it through 8-12 inch deep snow with no real drama. (see posts elsewhere)
The standard tyres are useless off tarmac (inc. snow) so change them.
Great motor for towing to.
HTH
Cheers, just the sort of user review I was after. Sounds similar sort of usage to what I envisage. The most off roading it is ever likely to do is into a field with a trailer, and if really necessary I can call on a SWB Shogun with low ratio box and off road tyres if needed.
Luckypants
10-02-09, 11:44 AM
What about a Subaru Forrester or one of them volvo v70 (i think) cross country? Both are AWD and extra clearance than a standard estate
I looked at those to, but they were all so much more expensive than an X-trail. Audi A6 All-roader was discounted early on due to price. If you are looking at 4x4 estate cars, then the Skoda Octavia is good value for money.
A mini 4x4 has another advantage over a 4x4 estate - more height. You can see over fences and walls to read the road ahead much more than in a 'normal' car.
dirtydog
10-02-09, 11:46 AM
Good thinking. That's another couple to look at.
The Volvos have 2.3l petrol engines so should have plenty of power, not sure about the Forester.
Both seem to be fairly good value used auto trader has got a fair few of each on their website
I have a freelander and love it. Was well impressed with it in the snow aswell. You can get a good td4 freelander for 5k so 7k should get you a gooden. If you do look at freelander get the td4 it has a strong bmw engine. It's not the most powerful but will do everything you require. I managed to get 4 bags of coal in the boot with room to spare. You can get a V6 but avoid as they are expensive if anything goes wrong. Oh and get some with 16 inch rims it's hard to find decent off road tyres for the 17-18inch wheels.
Whilst one of those might be good as a toy, I'm thinking long distance journeys/motorways etc might not be so hot. ;) To compare v the mud & snow, most of my driving of late has been in a borrowed Shogun Sport. Where I cannot move the MX5, I have been able to get without actually engaging all wheel drive; the off roading part is not a huge issue, but most of the other requirements are best met by a "SUV" as far as I can see.
Good thinking. That's another couple to look at.Thats what i said at the end of my post :( and no id dint read DD's post 1st ;)
Gazza77
10-02-09, 12:09 PM
Thats what i said at the end of my post :( and no id dint read DD's post 1st ;)
I'd love a Series 1 Landy, but that will have to wait till the Caterham 7, new Disco 3 and Daytona 675 have been added to the MX5 and ST in my yet to be extended garage. ;)
Luckypants
10-02-09, 12:10 PM
Oh and get some with 16 inch rims it's hard to find decent off road tyres for the 17-18inch wheels.
No you can get them, but would probably have to take a taller tyre. Off road tyres don't come in low profiles.
An AT tyre (a proper one) will work well for the OP's application. I run General Gabber AT2, excellent. :D
I'd love a Series 1 Landy, but that will have to wait till the Caterham 7, new Disco 3 and Daytona 675 have been added to the MX5 and ST in my yet to be extended garage. ;)Eh? i was talking about the v70 AWD (Cross country and the A6)...oh never mind :)
The Forester is a good but but the service intervals on the Boxter engine are quite short according to Subaru. Also, didnt Renault do a 4x4 scenic? Or, how about a Panda 4x4. It took on a rangerover and beat it on top gear once. Depends on how big/small a car you want.
Luckypants
10-02-09, 12:13 PM
I'd love a Series 1 Landy, but that will have to wait till the Caterham 7, new Disco 3 and Daytona 675 have been added to the MX5 and ST in my yet to be extended garage. ;)
blimey when did you win the lottery??
I have never rated landrovers as highly as most folks, IMHO plenty of more capable machinery (and reliable!) out there.
I've got a Kia Sportage and I'm very happy with it. Definitely "soft roader" but coped brilliantly with snow and ice when my MGF would not move for love nor money (nor digging nor sand/grit).
The older ones aren't so good but the newer shape ones are excellent. And a friend of mine scored one for £10.5k BRAND NEW.
No you can get them, but would probably have to take a taller tyre. Off road tyres don't come in low profiles.
An AT tyre (a proper one) will work well for the OP's application. I run General Gabber AT2, excellent. :D
Yeh I've been looking into a 2inch lift kit and some better tyres. I've been quoted £200 fitted for the lift kit so not too bad, am looking into some taller tyres but want to make sure I don't get rubbing problems on full lock.
Gazza77
10-02-09, 12:15 PM
blimey when did you win the lottery??
I have never rated landrovers as highly as most folks, IMHO plenty of more capable machinery (and reliable!) out there.
Nowt against X-Trail's (obviously!) but if I'd won the lottery we wouldn't be discussing the merits of a 2nd hand £7k one.... ;):p
I doubt anyone being a Series 1 buys it for reliability anyway. ;)
Luckypants
10-02-09, 12:17 PM
I doubt anyone being a Series 1 buys it for reliability anyway. ;)
Agreed :D I was thinking more about the Disco 3.
fizzwheel
10-02-09, 12:18 PM
If its going to be a 2nd car and you want to lug stuff about in it, why not go down market.
We bought a Ford Maverick from Lozzo just after Christmas, Liz has been using it to get to work in the snow last week, got through the snow no trouble and it has quite road bias tyres on the rear axle.
Its got selectable 2WD, 4WD High and Low range on the gearbox, we've not tried it off road, but its was cheap and it makes a good workhorse which is what we wanted. Its quite good on road to, will cruise at 70mph on the motorway OK, but we've had 90mph out of it as well. Feels just like a car to drive.
Just a thought, I wouldnt want to spend alot of money on a car that I was going to use to haul feedbags and stuff around in...
The ford maverick is a similar size to the x-trail and freelander. Hear a few good things about them.
fizzwheel
10-02-09, 12:20 PM
they do a short and long wheel base version, ours in the LWB, its massive inside with the rear seats out and the middle row folded down flat.
Gazza77
10-02-09, 12:31 PM
If its going to be a 2nd car and you want to lug stuff about in it, why not go down market.
We bought a Ford Maverick from Lozzo just after Christmas, Liz has been using it to get to work in the snow last week, got through the snow no trouble and it has quite road bias tyres on the rear axle.
Its got selectable 2WD, 4WD High and Low range on the gearbox, we've not tried it off road, but its was cheap and it makes a good workhorse which is what we wanted. Its quite good on road to, will cruise at 70mph on the motorway OK, but we've had 90mph out of it as well. Feels just like a car to drive.
Just a thought, I wouldnt want to spend alot of money on a car that I was going to use to haul feedbags and stuff around in...
Will consider it that; I'm thinking about age/mileage/life expectancy too as I'd imagine it will be kept for a least 5 years and I don't want to find it's hitting the age where the bills start adding up as soon as we get it.
Whatever we potentially get will actually become the first car, with the MX5 relegated to occassional use, and it may even go if I don't think it is getting used enough. At nearly 10 years old and with no bills due to the end of the year, I don't see any point in trying to px it at present though.
fizzwheel
10-02-09, 12:44 PM
Ours has done 170K engine still runs sweet as a nut, Its a Nissan as Ford and Nissan developed it together, its a Terrano II in a different guise. Its not the prettiest car in the world, but the LWB one is a 7 seater so it gives a little extra practicality to. We got it cheap, cost us £700. TBH if it was our only car I think it'd cope fine, but its handy having two and the Focus is better on diesel than the Maverick is.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/fizzwheel/DSC_0010-1.jpg
And a bit of the inside with the rear seats out and the middle row folded down, the middle row does go flatter though.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/fizzwheel/DSC_0011-1.jpg
I drive a LWB Shogun at work most of the time. Around town at normal speeds its a nice ride and pleasent to drive. When pushed going to a call they dont like it with the body roll.
I have found that the Shogun auto box is painfully slow at kickdown, and they are not good for sitting in the back.
We also use it for towing cars that have their brakes on and stuck in gear and it pulls them with no drama.
Ch00
speedplay
10-02-09, 05:00 PM
My Freelander is big enough for most things.
I've been pulling cars out of the snow for most of the week with it:)
When I was working on the tools, I use to pop the back seats down and fill it with kit and have also got enough space for trackday kit with it too:)
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/fizzwheel/DSC_0010-1.jpg
Don't want to dis your ride Fizz, I am sure its great and was a good price etc etc - but daaaaamn is it ugly! *my eyes! my eyes!* :-D
fizzwheel
10-02-09, 07:10 PM
Don't want to dis your ride Fizz, I am sure its great and was a good price etc etc - but daaaaamn is it ugly! *my eyes! my eyes!* :-D
Dis away, you're right it is fricken ugly, but I kinda like it.
Dis away, you're right it is fricken ugly, but I kinda like it.
The great thing about 4x4s in that price range is you can take them off-road and not worry about scratching them :) My mate bought a 1990 Isuzu Trooper TD for £350 - it had 35" tyres and was awesome off-road - two years later he sold it for £250 - bargain! We had hours of (most illegal! :oops: ) fun in and around the battle area and forestry areas of Norfolk :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v607/skip665/DSC00332Medium.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v607/skip665/Image021Medium.jpg
My Freelander is big enough for most things.
I've been pulling cars out of the snow for most of the week with it:)
When I was working on the tools, I use to pop the back seats down and fill it with kit and have also got enough space for trackday kit with it too:)
Wow where did you get that bike rack?.. I want one for when i get an offroader!!
KeithCRM
10-02-09, 08:36 PM
What about the Skoda Octavia Scout 4x4 which was mentioned in an earlier post, they have an increased ride height.
Forget the pi** takers, I've driven a couple of Octavia's and they're great cars!
What about a Subaru Legacy ?
Go get yourself a 300 series Discovery; 3.9 V8, LPG, no longer than a regular family car, loads of space, cheap spares, lower tax, cost equivalent to 30 ish mpg, good road handling and great in the sticky stuff, and a very good condition one can be had for under 3k.
I may be a little bias as I own two Landrovers (Disco and a Series 2a with a v8 in it ;) ) but they are both great fun and we have been all over in the Disco in great comfort and ease.
madness
10-02-09, 08:51 PM
When I went skiing in Austria at Christmas cars were having very little trouble with the snow. I didn't see that many 4x4s either. If I were you I'd get a fwd turbo diesel estate and fit some decent winter tyres . You'll experience more road noise from the tyres but you'll get that with a 4x4 anyway. Cheaper to run than a 4x4 too.
KeithCRM
10-02-09, 09:14 PM
Yes I have. It doesn't have the extra ground clearance, is unlikely to be as happy stacking 50kg bags of animal feed in the boot and I happen to like the elevated driving position, having been using a Shogun and a Land Cruiser lately, though I'd prefer something a little shorter.
Plus, no offence to Mondeo drivers, but I'd rather walk than own one of those. :p
Non taken, I'll just give you a wave as I drive past:smt072
Luckypants
10-02-09, 11:20 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v607/skip665/DSC00332Medium.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v607/skip665/Image021Medium.jpg
Fricken ace machines them 2.8Di Isuzus. I had one as main car for 6 years, put 180K miles in it and only changed the shocks once, one new clutch at 120K and tyres. It was seriously greenlaned and taken to offroad playdays, used on 6 Alps trips 5 up with kayaks, camping trips etc etc etc. Best vehicle I ever owned.
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