View Full Version : Riding at 'high' speeds?
I have only just started my full licence training, and i have yet to crack 60mph. I've reached 50mph on a single carriageway. I found this speed quite high, there was a lot of wind and it's not all that stable.
I was wondering what it is like to ride at 70mph compared to 50?
I'm training on a CG125 and i will be doing my test on it.
kwak zzr
14-02-09, 05:45 PM
on a modern sports bike its the same only faster, my bike feels more stable the faster you go.
I have only just started my full licence training, and i have yet to crack 60mph. I've reached 50mph on a single carriageway. I found this speed quite high, there was a lot of wind and it's not all that stable.
I was wondering what it is like to ride at 70mph compared to 50?
I'm training on a CG125 and i will be doing my test on it.
On a bigger bike you'll hardly notice the difference between 70 and 50, the SV cruises totally effortlessly at 70 and higher, even bigger bikes will do big numbers at a canter in total stability and calmness. Naked bikes are a bit different, but you get used to it.
I imagine a CG will struggle to crack 70 and it might not be so effortless :)
NickWilde123
14-02-09, 05:46 PM
try doing 80 on a yamaha YBR :D and its something that will come will time especially on smaller bikes
dizzyblonde
14-02-09, 05:47 PM
The only time I notice the difference riding at warp speed is when I've been sat at 90 ...cough 70...on the mway, and when you come down and rejoin normal traffic flow......and its reeeeeallly slow!
petevtwin650
14-02-09, 05:48 PM
on a modern sports bike its the same only faster, my bike feels more stable the faster you go.
Not that you've ever gone more than 70, Kwak, you law-abiding person, you!:p
Believe you me, Magnum, once you get on a 'proper' bike, 50 will seem like you're crawling:D
Is the CG particularly unstable then? Because it really didn't feel solid over 40 with it's skinny wheels and no wind resistance.
NickWilde123
14-02-09, 05:50 PM
in better weather the tyres grip brilliantly but its hit and miss at the moment
shonadoll
14-02-09, 05:50 PM
It feels a lot faster on a 125- I remember doing 50 on mine, and I was screaming. Now happily go a lot faster, but on the sv it feels fine and very stable.
kwak zzr
14-02-09, 05:51 PM
Is the CG particularly unstable then? Because it really didn't feel solid over 40 with it's skinny wheels and no wind resistance.
swing ur leg over a sv or like bike and you'll think u just got yourself a ferrari! you'll never stop smiling!
kwak zzr
14-02-09, 05:53 PM
Not that you've ever gone more than 70, Kwak, you law-abiding person, you!:p
yea ur right pete i do try to stick to the speed limits but its nigh on impossible tring to stay with u and lissa.:smt040
the_lone_wolf
14-02-09, 05:54 PM
swing ur leg over a sv or like bike and you'll think u just got yourself a ferrari! you'll never stop smiling!
until you swing your leg over something like a 675, then your perceptions change again:rolleyes:
i can't even begin to imagine what a litrebike feels like on full throttle:smt101
kwak zzr
14-02-09, 05:56 PM
depends on what litre bike, the sv1000 pulls ur arms out :) but my 600's still quicker :)
I've only dared to do it once so far, and the idea that I could lose my licence without using anything other than 1st is concerning :)
Orpheus
14-02-09, 06:15 PM
I did my test on a SR125, similar sort of thing, and at 60 i felt like i was hanging on for dear life, really felt unstable. On my SV now, that feels like nothing.
the_lone_wolf
14-02-09, 06:15 PM
I've only dared to do it once so far, and the idea that I could lose my licence without using anything other than 1st is concerning :)
sounds familiar, the guy who had the 1000 on long term loan for BIKE magazine said he could only remember using full throttle for a total of two seconds or so in a whole season's riding:mrgreen:
try doing 80 on a yamaha YBR :D and its something that will come will time especially on smaller bikes
you got 80 out of a YBR jesus i just managed 70 and that was downhill. How much do you weight, like 2 stone?:)
NickWilde123
14-02-09, 06:57 PM
it was last summer down addingham bypass, long straight down hill, it started to get reali unstable and there was a slow van infront, never managed to do it again though but i dont think it would be a good idea
it was last summer down addingham bypass, long straight down hill, it started to get reali unstable and there was a slow van infront, never managed to do it again though but i dont think it would be a good idea
lol fairplay, i sold mine because it was too slow
I have only just started my full licence training, and i have yet to crack 60mph. I've reached 50mph on a single carriageway. I found this speed quite high, there was a lot of wind and it's not all that stable.
I was wondering what it is like to ride at 70mph compared to 50?
I'm training on a CG125 and i will be doing my test on it.
Ahh I remember my first time doing 70 on my CBT on the Top Gear test track on a GS500. Good times :D You've just made an old man very happy.
Good Luck with it!
MattCollins
14-02-09, 08:38 PM
Perception of speed is interesting... Mostly it is a case of the brain catching up with the bike.
FWIW, the roads that I ride on are wide open (single lane each way) with no rails and cleared 70ft of each side. Up until 01/06 there were no speed limits (80mph now and largely unenforced) and little traffic. Riding these roads at speed is not a big deal (sometimes quite boring) for me, but throw me into heavy two lane traffic, or a road with an embankment on one side and a guard rail on the other with a moderate amount of traffic at the same speed and I feel as though I am going a lot faster until the brain catches up.
Having a bike buzzing its head off and wobbling around on the road as it is pushed certainly wouldn't help.
Cheers
Gene genie
14-02-09, 09:15 PM
Is the CG particularly unstable then? Because it really didn't feel solid over 40 with it's skinny wheels and no wind resistance.
i had a cg and never had any issues with the bikes stabillity. i did do 70 on it but that was in agreeing circumstances. it'll do 60 happily, so no real problems with wind resistance.
the tyres are skinier but they are better for riding in the snow.:-D
your probably comparing your ride on a bike with a car. its gonna be bumpier, noisier and colder, but hey thats the price for freedom, enjoy.
i had a cg and never had any issues with the bikes stabillity. i did do 70 on it but that was in agreeing circumstances. it'll do 60 happily, so no real problems with wind resistance.
the tyres are skinier but they are better for riding in the snow.:-D
your probably comparing your ride on a bike with a car. its gonna be bumpier, noisier and colder, but hey thats the price for freedom, enjoy.
ahh i see. No, i'm not comparing it to a car... or anything else for that matter because this is the first vehicle i've been on the road with :D
It's probably just my inexperience that makes me feel unstable.
Gene genie
14-02-09, 09:30 PM
ahh i see. No, i'm not comparing it to a car... or anything else for that matter because this is the first vehicle i've been on the road with :D
It's probably just my inexperience that makes me feel unstable.
it may be mechanical fault, check it over if only for your own piece of mind.
i had a break of 20yrs from bikes then decided to do my cbt to see if the bug was still there.
my word what a shock, we pulled out of the carpark then the instructor and other two riders took off and left me. i was utterly disgusted with the lack of professionalism shown by the instructor to do high speeds in a 30mph zone.
then i glanced down at my speedo to see i were doing 22mph:smt053, it felt so quick.:smt043
you get used to it and move on to bigger and better bikes.
shonadoll
14-02-09, 10:14 PM
it may be mechanical fault, check it over if only for your own piece of mind.
i had a break of 20yrs from bikes then decided to do my cbt to see if the bug was still there.
my word what a shock, we pulled out of the carpark then the instructor and other two riders took off and left me. i was utterly disgusted with the lack of professionalism shown by the instructor to do high speeds in a 30mph zone.
then i glanced down at my speedo to see i were doing 22mph:smt053, it felt so quick.:smt043
you get used to it and move on to bigger and better bikes.
Hahaha! I was the same- thinking this MUST be illegal, the speeds he is doing.:D
SVDragRacer
14-02-09, 10:43 PM
I once had a cg125 engined chinese replica of an early cbr 125, i managed to get an indicated 90 on the speedo (probably only about 75) but that was down a long hill on the a38, i had never been that quick on a bike by myself only as a pillion. It was worrying but fun if i'm honest, speed is something you can only get used to with experiance, altho i do believe there is really only one way to learn to go fast, and that is to just get out there and do it.
kwak zzr
14-02-09, 10:56 PM
TBH top speed doesn't interest me, as long as 100 is comfortable and corners exist I'm happy :)
John 675
14-02-09, 11:52 PM
the daytona feels so agile even passed 150.. i dont have the slightest problem with going fast really... every bike ive owned ive topped out just so i know its limit.. i can imagine the cg125 to feel ****y at speed.. because the wheels oselations would be greater with thiner lighter wheels.. i may be wrong on that.. as im not a physics whizz but my DT125 used to tank slap quite a bit at 75.. i put it down to the thin wheels becoming unstable.. ???
I remember the 1st time that i hit 70mph it was scary and an adrenalin rush
I was wondering what it is like to ride at 70mph compared to 50?
I'm training on a CG125 and i will be doing my test on it.
I rode a CG125 commuting to work for a year, it stops accelerating at 50 and top speed (at least with 14 stone of me on it) is 60. Had no problems at all with bike being stable, and as I commute from Blackpool to Preston, its very windy and wet most of the time.
When I got the SV, the ride is completely different and much smoother and easier at all speeds, although the turning circle is pants especially the S. ( 2 years & IAM since I bought it and I still can't do a u-turn in a narrow road without putting feet down)
try doing 80 on a yamaha YBR :D and its something that will come will time especially on smaller bikes
Laid on the tank, downhill, tail wind and rev counter firmly in the red?
Been there done that.... Backed before the piston tries to escape.
I didn't like speeds around 50-60 on the er5 on my DAS, when I picked the sv up 70 was scary....
It's all about confidence and getting used to. After some time three figures aren't scary any more :)
kwak zzr
15-02-09, 10:20 AM
i still chuckle how fast the digital speedo flashes into 3 figures in seconds hehe!
xXBADGERXx
15-02-09, 10:49 AM
The stability of smaller capacity bikes did use to concern me greatly , I rode on and off for 17 years on L plates and at times I had some truly frightening experiences . Had my TZR blown across the path of the fast lane on a dual carriageway and was screaming in my lid "Noooooooooooo Fack ORF Noooooooooooooo" . The Cagiva Mito I had was quite stable , My KTM was a nightmare but a hoot in the twisties ...... and the Honda Varadero 125 was a snooze fest but stable . The Varadero and the Cagiva were the heaviest bikes I owned and their weight made them stable plus the tyre size was bigger thus heavier and was less prone to wandering . The SV is quite stable at speed and I was told by my instructor to power through any blasty conditions with a bit more throttle (still not convinced about that) . What I`m getting at is these small capacity bikes are just not heavy enough and with budget components they don`t stand a fighting chance .
The KTM used to slide it`s back end out of corners and my mates would say it looked impressive , all I remember was thinking "Sliding ? no it wasn`t" , the Cagiva used to patter the front end badly going over rough corners and nearly had me off the road on the other side , the TZR was a good all rounder but so prone to wandering about in the wind , the Varadero was just plain yawnsome but all of those experiences on all of those bikes over the years have added up to some biking memories and the funny thing is , even with a bike like the SV and it`s budget suspension , I NEVER get any of the issues I had with my smaller capacity bikes .
All those years of worry and anxiety could have been quashed by just getting on with my test and hopping on to a bigger bike as soon as I could , you live and learn eh ?
power through any blasty conditions with a bit more throttle
+1
xXBADGERXx
15-02-09, 02:09 PM
Glad that`s confirmed then :)
timwilky
15-02-09, 02:19 PM
My 125s (bantams in the 70s) were real bone shakers and took all day to get to 40, and could easily be outpaced by a 16 year old on a fizzy, they made my 250 hustler into a real speed machine.
I thought modern 125s were capable of doing decent speeds 90+. or is only with a bit of fettling to the hobbling applied for learners?
No, i just said +1, not +1,000,000 YMMV but it does work for me I'd hate for anything to go wrong cause anyone rushed intomore trouble going too fast
:)
I thought modern 125s were capable of doing decent speeds 90+. or is only with a bit of fettling to the hobbling applied for learners?
Is it just the 2 stroke 125s that can do 90s?
madness
15-02-09, 02:36 PM
Having recently passed my test, it's still fresh in my memory how my KH125 was at speed. Flat out at just over 70 was a bit unstable and scary. What you have to remember is that 125s are light and have skinny tyres. They're fine on a nice smooth road surface with no cross wind, but as soon as faults in the road appear or there's a cross wind the bike becomes less predictable. I did my DAS on an ER5 which was much better. But even at 70 on a dual carriageway the wind blast was a bit off putting. I found the SV totally different. Mine is faired with a double bubble screen and the windblast is a lot less. The first time I rode it was 50 miles of dual carriageway and had no issues taking it up to 90, it was so stable compared to the other bikes I had riden. I don't think you should get hung up about feeling nervous at speed, especially on a 125. Bigger bikes are much friendlier and safer to ride.
Gene genie
15-02-09, 02:44 PM
i do find big bikes safer to ride. okay brakes are better and so on but the biggest difference is your prescence on the road, espiecally after the hell plates come off.
motorists are impatient to wait behind a 125 on L plates travelling at 50mph in a 30 zone, but quite happy to wait behind a larger bike doing 30 in a 30.
xXBADGERXx
15-02-09, 03:02 PM
Never a truer word spoken , the "L" plates are idiot magnets and they are the one thing that should be given some room just in case
Thanks for the advice everyone. Now i'll just prepare myself for some high speed instability and take it on the chin. I can't wait to get out on the bike again, and definitely can't wait for the SV!
jamesterror
15-02-09, 05:20 PM
Fastest I've been is just over a tonne as a pillion on my friend's SV before he sold it, the rush was awesome.
Then whilst on my lessons I've had 68 down a dual carriage way, head down, throttle all the way.
Didn't seem to give me much of a rush until I started getting towards open roads and I was clinging on.
Learning on a Suzuki EN125
When I first rode a CG125 on my CBT I wondered how people ever went fast.......then on my first day of DAS I was on a CB500 and went down a windy dual carriageway, could hardly hear a thing on the ear piece and got to about 60 and though exactly the same thing with swear words.
However
On a bike designed to go fast, with a bit of fairing it is very very easy and you wonder what you were ever thinking.
hit 105 on the runway today and thats resitricted, bike is pretty solid though but tool a while to get there
hit 105 on the runway today and thats resitricted, bike is pretty solid though but tool a while to get there
'runway' ;)
-Ralph-
16-02-09, 11:32 PM
Sprint ST 1050 is calm and stable at 150 with no more wind buffeting than the SV at 85, on a german autobahn of course...
Luckypants
16-02-09, 11:42 PM
Me and Claire did a steady 180 Kph (110 mph) on an unrestricted Autobahn last summer and got up to 210 Kph (130 mph) at times - with luggage. Claire's SV650S had no trouble keeping up and seemed stable at those speeds.
My viffer has seen the far side 240 Kph on another foreign road, again with luggage and was pretty stable.
-Ralph-
16-02-09, 11:45 PM
Me and Claire did a steady 180 Kph (110 mph) on an unrestricted Autobahn last summer and got up to 210 Kph (130 mph) at times - with luggage. Claire's SV650S had no trouble keeping up and seemed stable at those speeds.
My viffer has seen the far side 240 Kph on another foreign road, again with luggage and was pretty stable.
Yeah, the SVS is stable enough at 130, but the engine is revving it's wee nuts off. :) And windblast doesn't allow me to do it for too long, but Claire should be short enough to be OK.
M - it's important to recognise that you're comparing a bike with a car or a bus - cars and buses have much greater mass and don't get blown around. Secondly, DON'T FIGHT IT. If you tense up, your arms will go locked, and your input to the controls will be cack and it'll make it even worse. You have to accept a bit of being blown around, you MUST stay relaxed with your elbows bent.
When I first rode a CG125 on my CBT I wondered how people ever went fast.......then on my first day of DAS I was on a CB500 and went down a windy dual carriageway, could hardly hear a thing on the ear piece and got to about 60 and though exactly the same thing with swear words.
However
On a bike designed to go fast, with a bit of fairing it is very very easy and you wonder what you were ever thinking.
Define 'fast'.
After my ZXR4 was nicked I replaced it with an unfaired Bandit 12. At first anything above 50mph or so felt like hard work but once I'd got used to it and my neck muscles had built up a bit I'd regularly cruise between 100 and 110.
The only time I really had trouble doing speed on an unfaired bike was when I took the bandit up to an indicated 150, and the only scary thing about it was the speed the needle was swinging round the fuel gauge.
That said, when I replaced an SV with a GSXR750 I found myself doing 150 without even realising, so the fairing (and a decent engine) certainly makes a difference.
Dave20046
17-02-09, 09:43 AM
To be honest my naked doesn't instill (is that even a word??- I'm hungover) confidence at 65+
my bike can get a little shakey over 90, but you get used to it after a while.
To be honest my naked doesn't instill (is that even a word??- I'm hungover) confidence at 65+
Pah. I've topped 130 in shorts and tshirt and didn't die.
Dave20046
17-02-09, 10:00 AM
Pah. I've topped 130 in shorts and tshirt and didn't die.
I meant naked bike :p
I meant naked bike :p
Nah, it's just a bit windy is all.
vardypeeps
17-02-09, 12:53 PM
I have only just started my full licence training, and i have yet to crack 60mph. I've reached 50mph on a single carriageway. I found this speed quite high, there was a lot of wind and it's not all that stable.
I was wondering what it is like to ride at 70mph compared to 50?
I'm training on a CG125 and i will be doing my test on it.
I would "feel" quite high as the CG125 is a very light and top heavy bike.
It would make it feel unstable even more so in windy conditions.
Bigger bikes are heavier and tend to be better designed. Iv done close to 140mph on a Bandit 600 naked and it felt stable but my neck didn't! :P
saintnick
17-02-09, 01:26 PM
Its all relative.
Just sold a pepped up ZRX 1200 (same reason as the SV is for sale). Dyno speed = 186 mph (had several dyno runs, all faster than 180 although top speed isn't really the point of dyno testing as you know, not least because gearing has a significant impact on top speed. ). Equates to real world = 170 ish.
The problem was that the bike felt so comfortable North of 150 (in Germany, of course) that I knew I would end up without a licence anywhere else ;), and at those speeds m'lud gets really rather upset.
On the other hand, I had an old stroker 250 and 80 on that felt faster than the ZRX at 140.
Its all relative.
Its all relative.
Just sold a pepped up ZRX 1200 (same reason as the SV is for sale). Dyno speed = 186 mph (had several dyno runs, all faster than 180 although top speed isn't really the point of dyno testing as you know, not least because gearing has a significant impact on top speed. )
Top speed testing on a dyno is completely meaningless not because of gearing but because it's standing still and not having to push its way through air at 180mph.
Top speed testing on a dyno is completely meaningless not because of gearing but because it's standing still and not having to push its way through air at 180mph.
But I thought they put a big fan in front of the bike to account for that :confused:
Ceri JC
17-02-09, 02:25 PM
But I thought they put a big fan in front of the bike to account for that :confused:
The fan is to give the ram air/similar the same volume of air it'd get at that speed; it doesn't actually create wind resistance which saps the bike's speed.
The fan is to give the ram air/similar the same volume of air it'd get at that speed; it doesn't actually create wind resistance which saps the bike's speed.
Quite. If it weren't for wind resistance you could gear a bike for a gazillion miles an hour and while it might need most of the M1 for a run up it'd get there in the end.
A ZRX1200, otoh, has the aerodynamics of a small brick outhouse. A 'busa it ain't.
-Ralph-
17-02-09, 05:43 PM
Its all relative.
Which is why the SV is such a great wee bike! You can have some serious fun thrashing the nuts off it without getting m'lud very very upset and putting you in jail. At 100mph the SV feels like it's going some, the Sprint ST 1050 gets to 150mph then laughs at you for not twisting the throttle harder.
saintnick
17-02-09, 09:25 PM
Quite. If it weren't for wind resistance
zackly why I made the point that dyno runs for speed were fairly meaningless, and why I mentioned what that equated to in the real world. And my ZRX was standard gearing.
No, a ZRX aint a busa, dont think anyone was suggesting that, but it is very good at what it does. Some might say its more comfortable and stylish, and with a ZZR 11 derived lump and cams knocks out 140 brake @ RW, more than enough for a naked. The real point is that its all relative. Off road gearing for example obviously compromises top speed, but jaysus 40mph feels fast on a rutted, excrement strewn green lane.......
No, a ZRX aint a busa, dont think anyone was suggesting that, but it is very good at what it does. Some might say its more comfortable and stylish, and with a ZZR 11 derived lump and cams knocks out 140 brake @ RW
Pull the other one, it's got bells on.
Kawasaki claimed 123bhp for the ZRX1200 and 147bhp for a late ZZR1100. Those are claimed figures, so they'll be at the crank and rather optimistic.
Define 'fast'.
That said, when I replaced an SV with a GSXR750 I found myself doing 150 without even realising, so the fairing (and a decent engine) certainly makes a difference.
150+ and not feeling like your going very fast is what I would 'define as fast' :)
When I first passed I never thought I would dare go over 100 much, now 150+ is a blip of the throttle away and I wouldnt think twice.
rossinio
18-02-09, 04:49 PM
I beat you all, 70mph on a lifan 125 (chinese cg copy) rev needle buried in the red with me, 14 stone + gear + rucksack :)
It felt a lot like it was going to blow up and if there was a rev limiter I'm sure it would have hit it!
I was going down a hill on my mate's DT 50 and the speedo was off the clock.
Although I was only doing about 50 it felt much faster than 90 on the SV
On a note of high speed riding (long term).
Does the brake lever suffer at say 70+ mph for prolonged periods?
Magazine article was mentioning that the lever at high speeds would apply due to the air speeds applying a force to it, causing the brakes to heat up.
Not seen any OEM drilled/slotted brake levers though?
On a note of high speed riding (long term).
Does the brake lever suffer at say 70+ mph for prolonged periods?
Magazine article was mentioning that the lever at high speeds would apply due to the air speeds applying a force to it, causing the brakes to heat up.
Unless you've got muffs that's bollox
Not seen any OEM drilled/slotted brake levers though?
Outside of MotoGP me neither
On a note of high speed riding (long term).
Does the brake lever suffer at say 70+ mph for prolonged periods?
Magazine article was mentioning that the lever at high speeds would apply due to the air speeds applying a force to it, causing the brakes to heat up.
Not seen any OEM drilled/slotted brake levers though?
There is such a small surface area for wind to blow on that I'm sure that must be balls, most are curved anyway to deflect any wind that would blow on them.....and alot of bikes levers are behind fairings anyway.
tinpants
18-02-09, 06:21 PM
On the subject of ZZRs and power, I was led to believe that they were (and I'm on about the D9 model) around the 160bhp region. I could well be wrong about that so don't flame me for it, I'm just relaying what I was told.
As regards top speed, I've had an indicated 178mph out of my ZZR1100 D9. That was, of course, in Europe and not at any time in this country, officer.
Said bike is now for sale, in near perfect condition, as seen at AR08. PM me for details if interested.
yorkie_chris
19-02-09, 02:11 PM
Top speed testing on a dyno is completely meaningless not because of gearing but because it's standing still and not having to push its way through air at 180mph.
Indeed. It's simply spinning a mass around.
The fan is to give the ram air/similar the same volume of air it'd get at that speed; it doesn't actually create wind resistance which saps the bike's speed.
But really, it doesn't. 180mph takes a lot more than a cooling fan.
Quite. If it weren't for wind resistance you could gear a bike for a gazillion miles an hour and while it might need most of the M1 for a run up it'd get there in the end.
A ZRX1200, otoh, has the aerodynamics of a small brick outhouse. A 'busa it ain't.
Damn those laws of physics...
saintnick
21-02-09, 01:24 AM
Pull the other one, it's got bells on.
Think there's a slight misunderstanding here. No one mentioned an OE ZRX.
Its partly down to the ZZR cams which drop straight into the ZRX, very similar top end. And once that heavy zorst has been binned.........
Many of the guys here (http://www.zrxocboard.com/board/showthread.php?t=5206) jet, full akra, and bung in ZZR 1100 cams on the ZRX 11. Same on the 12. With the 11, you're looking at 130 brake @RW, 12 (c/w ZZR 12 cams) 140. All you need on a naked.
My 12 which had all the above without the cams was consistently 130 / 131 brake on the dyno. Some go further: 160 brake normally aspirated (see jpeg).
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