Britain rides the wrong bikes...but we're learning

[Stu]

Britain rides the wrong bikes...but we're learning! :grin:


means?



:???:

[-Ralph-]

Hello!! :p

My good man Tiger 55 just pointed me towards this thread.

means?

:???:

It's not hard to guess what it means really, but do you want me to get completely flamed and become very unpopular? Oh, well, that may happen on visordown, but it doesn't really apply to the majority of folk on this forum, so here goes...

Well you may know I have a good friend in Mexico and I spent a holiday out there with him riding bikes with him and one of his mates. And my wife is French so I have family out there too.

So a few folk from both France and Mexico have asked me in the last year, "I want a new bike, what shall I get?" In each case sportsbikes have not even been near the shopping list, despite me suggesting a few, most foreigners are not remotely interested, unless it's a second bike. The stock answer to sports bikes is "don't be daft, they are designed for racing, I want a bike I can ride" (though in France they are talking about 600's 'cos with a 100BHP limit litre sportsbikes are a rare sight). In France the mid sized all rounder is king.

The minority of those in Mexico who do have sports bikes have 1 1/2 inch chicken strips, they don't know how to ride them because they don't have the opportunity. Normal everyday road surfaces are not in good enough condition to get those lean angles. Don't get me wrong they have some fantastic twisties, but from the centres of population you have to ride hours to get to them. In Mexico the adventure bike is king.

The 600 sports bikes are designed to make peak power at high revs on the track, you don't use those revs on the road. The litre sportsbikes are too powerful to get anywhere near their potential on the road. They all give you a sore ar$e, wrists and a bad back, yet Britain as a nation is still obsessed with sports bikes! Including me, I'm not into Jap IL4's myself I like something a bit different from the rest of the crowd, but I drool over RSVR's and exotica like Ducati 1098's in autotrader regularly. Completely nuts 'cos riding up the M6 to the Glencoe Massacre would be torture and it would never get near full throttle, but I just look at it and I want to own it. It's no co-incidence that manufacturers now launch new sports bikes at a race track first, then maybe you get to ride them on the road. It's not just fear of liability, it's because thats where the bikes perform the best.

And this is whats why Britain rides the wrong bikes. Why do we look at sports bikes and lust after them like no other country in the world? Even though they are a completely daft choice for the majority of riding that we do. They are "race replicas", designed specifically for the race track, there are much more suitable bikes for the majority of riding that we do, and when you ride those bikes you realise how damn good they are and how much sense they make.

And Britain is learning because we are seeing trends change, Adventure bikes topping sales charts, some all rounders selling like hot cakes, the new Triumph Tiger, Kawasaki designing things like the Versys (horrible, crap maybe, but the design concept is my point). Maybe it's just changing 'cos the biking population is getting older. Maybe I'm just getting old!

I changed the signature after riding a GSXR600 in Mexico (on the good roads!), then coming home and riding a DRX400SM, and realising I had more fun on the DRZ.

Sit back and await the onslaught :smt072 from those who think their R6 is perfect for commuting into London and they've never had a sore ****, back or wrists in thier life.....

[the_lone_wolf]

Hello!! :p

My good man Tiger 55 just pointed me towards this thread.



It's not hard to guess what it means really, but do you want me to get completely flamed and become very unpopular? Oh, well, that may happen on visordown, but it doesn't really apply to the majority of folk on this forum, so here goes...

Well you may know I have a good friend in Mexico and I spent a holiday out there with him riding bikes with him and one of his mates. And my wife is French so I have family out there too.

So a few folk from both France and Mexico have asked me in the last year, "I want a new bike, what shall I get?" In each case sportsbikes have not even been near the shopping list, despite me suggesting a few, most foreigners are not remotely interested, unless it's a second bike. The stock answer to sports bikes is "don't be daft, they are designed for racing, I want a bike I can ride" (though in France they are talking about 600's 'cos with a 100BHP limit litre sportsbikes are a rare sight). In France the mid sized all rounder is king.

The minority of those in Mexico who do have sports bikes have 1 1/2 inch chicken strips, they don't know how to ride them because they don't have the opportunity. Normal everyday road surfaces are not in good enough condition to get those lean angles. Don't get me wrong they have some fantastic twisties, but from the centres of population you have to ride hours to get to them. In Mexico the adventure bike is king.

The 600 sports bikes are designed to rmake peak power at high revs on the track, you don't use those revs on the road. The litre sportsbikes are too powerful to get anywhere near their potential on the road. They all give you a sore ar$e, wrists and a bad back, yet Britain as a nation is still obsessed with sports bikes! Including me, I'm not into Jap IL4's myself I like something a bit different from the rest of the crowd, but I drool over RSVR's and exotica like Ducati 1098's in autotrader regularly. Completely nuts 'cos riding up the M6 to the Glencoe Massacre would be torture and it would never get near full throttle, but I just look at it and I want to own it.

And this is whats why Britain rides the wrong bikes. Why do we look at sports bikes and lust after them like no other country in the world? Even though they are a completely daft choice for the majority of riding that we do. They are "race replicas", designed specifically for the race track, there are much more suitable bikes for the majority of riding that we do, and when you ride those bikes you realise how damn good they are and how much sense they make.

And Britain is learning because we are seeing trends change, Adventure bikes topping sales charts, some all rounders selling like hot cakes, the new Triumph Tiger, Kawasaki designing things like the Versys (horrible, crap maybe, but the design concept is my point). Maybe it's just changing 'cos the biking population is getting older. Maybe I'm just getting old!

Set back and await the onslaught :smt072 from those who think their R6 is perfect for commuting into London and they've never had a sore ****, back or wrists in thier life.....

if people took a logical approach to purchasing a bike they'd all end up on 125-250cc japanese scooters:rolleyes::mrgreen:

[Dicky Ticker]

Very eloquently put that man------just a minute ,in order to save my own skin I'll go and get the wood and nails:):):):)


BRIT-IRON -ROOLS[-o<

[-Ralph-]

if people took a logical approach to purchasing a bike they'd all end up on 125-250cc japanese scooters:rolleyes::mrgreen:

I was still editing whilst you replied

I changed the signature after riding a GSXR600 in Mexico, then coming home and riding a DRZ400SM, and realising I had more fun on the DRZ.

It's nothing to do with logic, or fuel economy, or cost. A DRZ SM is not logical. It's just that as more and more people in Britain try something different, they realise that on these "less popular" bikes, they are actually having more fun, or getting more out of their riding. Which is why most of us do it.

[the_lone_wolf]

It's nothing to do with logic, or fuel economy, or cost. A DRZ SM is not logical. It's just that as more and more people in Britain try something different, they realise that on these "less popular" bikes, they are actually having more fun, or getting more out of their riding. Which is why most of us do it.

But I can have equal amounts of fun on the SV, on the soon to be Daytona and on my KTM, on different roads, none of them work in all conditions, but that doesn't mean any of them are the "wrong" bike:confused:

[fizzwheel]

Meh.. I rode from the Massacre all the way back to Yeovil in one go. I wasnt tired or sore when I got home. Liz's 749S should be the most uncomfortable bike to ride, but its not, despite the thin seat and low clipons. Its really comfortable on long journeys. You do get a bit hot around town due to the underseat exhaust though.

To me I want a bike that makes me feel alive, I want something that scares me a little, I want a bike that I have to really think about riding, for me thats a sportsbike. I've ridden plenty of middleweight bikes, Bandits, Hornets that kind of thing they dont light my fire...

Nick Sanders went round the world on a R1 after all

It probably is an unsuitable bike, I'd probably be better off on a different bike, part of it is doing something fun on a bike that most people would say is unsuitable for what you're using it for IMHO,

When was biking something that any of us make logical decisions about !!

[-Ralph-]

But I can have equal amounts of fun on the SV, on the soon to be Daytona and on my KTM, on different roads, none of them work in all conditions, but that doesn't mean any of them are the "wrong" bike:confused:

But if my signature read

"Britain rides kinda not really'ish perfect bikes for the conditions but we're doing all right you know"

it wouldn't have grabbed anyones attention and this thread wouldn't exist. Bold sweeping statements :-D I love them almost as much a good argument :twisted:

But I'm supposed to be working!

[the_lone_wolf]

To me I want a bike that makes me feel alive, I want something that scares me a little, I want a bike that I have to really think about riding, for me thats a sportsbike.

+1

that about sums it up for me too

if i were commuting 365 i'd probably buy another bike, but i'm happy with what i have now

[Stu]

OK fair enough, but I think you've contradicted yourself by saying a sports bike is no use in Mexico because of the roads so Britain rides the wrong bikes.
I was comparing my ZX6R at the weekend to a CBR400. I could ride the 6 faster than the 4 because it is a faster bike. I would maybe conceed that occasionally I could ride a 1000 faster but most of the time the 6 would be fast enough :smt102
My commute of 35 miles each way has 15 miles at about a ton, so without having tried one, I imagine a DRZ would not be the most suitable/fun for me.
I don't have any aches from my ZX6R, but then again it is an old one.

[-Ralph-]

When was biking something that any of us make logical decisions about !!

Each to their own obviously, if you have fun on your sports bike thats great, we all want to have fun.

But lets make this perfectly clear before the whole thread turns into an argument about logic.

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT LOGIC, I NEVER MENTIONED LOGIC!!! ;)

It's about people who have ridden, loved and lusted after sports bikes all their lives, riding something different and saying to themselves, "hey I really enjoy this", and there is no denying that Britain is changing it's attitudes to the bikes it rides, just look at the sales trends.

[-Ralph-]

OK fair enough, but I think you've contradicted yourself by saying a sports bike is no use in Mexico because of the roads so Britain rides the wrong bikes

Don't think I drew that conclusion really:confused: I didn't even talk about the UK in the same paragraph, never mind the same sentence.

I used an extreme example of sports bikes in totally the wrong environment to illustrate a majority of folk in that country choosing a more suitable bike, ie: adventure bikes are king in Mexico.

My commute of 35 miles each way has 15 miles at about a ton, so without having tried one, I imagine a DRZ would not be the most suitable/fun for me

No I dare say it would be a nightmare, but I didn't say it would be suitable. I just said they were good fun bikes, and people who do ride a majority of tight B roads and back lanes, are only just getting over the lust factor, selling the sports bikes, coming round to the fact the DRZ suits them better, and grinning from ear to ear.

[fizzwheel]

It's about people who have ridden, loved and lusted after sports bikes all their lives, riding something different and saying to themselves, "hey I really enjoy this", and there is no denying that Britain is changing it's attitudes to the bikes it rides, just look at the sales trends.

I've done that to. I had a huge amount of fun on a Bandit 1250 that I got lent whilst my GSXR had some work done on it. I quite liked the naked Bandit 650 that I rode as well. Its just if I only had to have one bike it wouldnt be a Bandit or something of that ilk...

[carlos]

The minority of those in Mexico who do have sports bikes have 1 1/2 inch chicken strips, they don't know how to ride them because they don't have the opportunity. Normal everyday road surfaces are not in good enough condition to get those lean angles. Don't get me wrong they have some fantastic twisties, but from the centres of population you have to ride hours to get to them. In Mexico the adventure bike is king.

Go to the Pod and tell any drag-bike racer that they're riding an unsuitable bike because they don't corner enough, they are mostly sportsbike based aren't they?

:D

[-Ralph-]

Go to the Pod and tell any drag-bike racer that they're riding an unsuitable bike because they don't corner enough, they are mostly sportsbike based aren't they?

:D

"Britain rides the wrong bikes..." Do the majority of British bike riders race drags at the pod? :rolleyes:

[-Ralph-]

Anyway, I've got to get some work done guys! I'm going to log off until tomorrow.

[Biker Biggles]

I pretty much agree with Ralph.Living in the smoke I prefere to jump on the SV(naked,the bike not me)for most journeys than my ZX9R because its more suitable and more fun most of the time.Sportsbikes as weekend toys or trackday rides are fine but for everyday use the Europeans are ahead of us.

[tinpants]

The search for the perfect bike, that is the bike thats perfect for all conditions and situations has been going on since the first bike was built. I dare say it will go on longer than this thread too!! Different bikes do different things for different people. End of. There is not, at present, any bike that does everything perfectly. There are some that fit a lot of situations and do it quite well but nothing that really ticks all the boxes and gets 10/10 while doing it.

[ophic]

Sportsbikes as weekend toys or trackday rides are fine but for everyday use the Europeans are ahead of us.
Sportsbikes may not be ideal but if someone wants one and can cope with it as an everyday vehicle, there's no reason not to get one. Perhaps the Europeans are just soft? :mrgreen:

[Lou M]

A DRZ SM is not logical.


I agree, but I love it! Best bike I've ever had, never realised before how much fun twisty lanes were!!

[STRAMASHER]

Perhaps the Europeans are just soft? :mrgreen:

Nah, they are hard as nails. Everytime I have had a riding lesson off them on their Transalps and Dommies (+Italian cop on BM)they are always cutting about in shorts and plimsoles (Green slacks and shirt for the Fascist).:mrgreen:

Can we agree on them being, NUTS!?;)

[Sid Squid]

Sit back and await the onslaught :smt072 from those who think their R6 is perfect for commuting into London and they've never had a sore ****, back or wrists in thier life.....
There won't be an onslaught, not from me anyway - I'm too lazy.

However, whilst you may have, overall, a point to make and it's something that I and many others have discussed for many years, much of what you say I find hard to understand, the criticisms you have made are entirely subjective, comfort for instance is an utterly personal thing. Whilst I have many a time wondered over the choices of bike people have made, the fact that you decided your buying decision was founded incorrectly doesn't by necessity mean that the same decision made by another is incorrect.

The 600 sports bikes are designed to make peak power at high revs on the track, you don't use those revs on the road.Really? Mine doesn't.
They all give you a sore ar$e, wrists and a bad back,Again, an utterly personal statement, I find the 600 more comfortable overall than the naked 1000. Find that unusual? Maybe but it's a personal thing.

I think perhaps you've been riding the wrong bike. I'm not sure the entire nation has made the same error.

All said nice, no offence or upset is intended, I just think maybe you've projected your change of heart over what is the 'right' bike, (if there is such a thing), to the buying habits of the rest of us.

[shonadoll]

I agree Ralph. I've often wondered why sportsbikes are so popular, when so few use them on track.

[the_lone_wolf]

I've often wondered why sportsbikes are so popular, when so few use them on track.

really?:confused:

[ArtyLady]

I totally agree with Ralph - this is the reason I added bar risers to my nakid SV :cool: comfort is my priority :mrgreen:

[shonadoll]

really?:confused:

Yes, really:confused:

[the_lone_wolf]

Yes, really:confused:

http://typo.graphr.net/images/owl-nowai.jpg

but seriously, just because you don't use a bike on a track doesn't mean you're never going to enjoy it on the road does it?

[Stu]

[quote=the_lone_wolf;1790665]http://typo.graphr.net/images/owl-nowai.jpg

quote]
I can just imagine TLW at home not actually speaking but holding up a placard with a picture and something funny on it for everything that he wants to say
:lol:

Could someone please explain to me what is more fun about a supermoto on a twisty road than a sports bike.

Sid Squid, do you not agree that modern 600 sports bikes are more focussed and have the tendency to deliver power higher in their rev range and provide a more uncomfortable, wristy, perch than the fat old sofa you ride around on?

[Lozzo]

Go to the Pod and tell any drag-bike racer that they're riding an unsuitable bike because they don't corner enough, they are mostly sportsbike based aren't they?

:D

Any fool can ride fast in a straight line. I don't see where the fun is at drag strips. 1/4 mile of flat out riding for about 10 seconds,... wow whoopee-doo.

[the_lone_wolf]

http://typo.graphr.net/images/owl-nowai.jpg


I can just imagine TLW at home not actually speaking but holding up a placard with a picture and something funny on it for everything that he wants to say
:lol:
I'm mute, didn't you know:eek:;)

the "oh really" - "ya really" - "no way" meme has been around for ages, just made me chuckle that this time it developed by accident so i couldn;t resist the urge to post the next part of it;)

Could someone please explain to me what is more fun about a supermoto on a twisty road than a sports bike.

mostly the geometry of the bike gives you massive confidence in the front tyre, on the track i've ridden into corners on the KTM and part way into them felt the rear wheel touch back down again, not realising it had lifted. the single cylinder engines have masses of torque low down to fire you between twisty corners with not much straight road between them. finally, the seating position, light weight and wide bars give you great leverage over the bike to make it turn quickly, and once you're leaned over the long travel (and usually high quality) suspension makes the bike ride smoothly over poor surfaces, which the twisty UK roads are usually made up of:cool:

[Lozzo]

Again, an utterly personal statement, I find the 600 more comfortable overall than the naked 1000. Find that unusual? Maybe but it's a personal thing.
.

Agreed, I found my '02 GSXR1000 K1 infinitely more comfortable than the '98 Bandit 600S I owned at the same time. I could ride the Gixer all day at ton plus speeds and feel fine, but the Bandit gave me backache after about 200 miles at a steady 90ish

[fizzwheel]

Sid Squid, do you not agree that modern 600 sports bikes are more focussed and have the tendency to deliver power higher in their rev range and provide a more uncomfortable, wristy, perch than the fat old sofa you ride around on?

The only one I've ridden was the K6 600, TBH I found it pulled Ok from 6000rpm, it was just about usable from 4000rpm... it made plenty of torque and the midrange felt quite good to.

As for comfort as I said and others have said, I find my GSXR more comfortable than I did my SV. Especially over along distance, No way could I have ridden from the campsite at the Glencoe Massacre all the way back to Yeovil again in one day if I didnt...

However we're forever being told by magazines how the latest bikes are "track focused, sharp handling missles" because that sounds good doesnt it and I'm wandering if a lot peopls perception of what sports bikes are like to ride are based on these magazine articles rather than actual experience.

Somebody no doubt will be along in a minute to tell us that IL4 bikes dont have any torque or midrange no doubt ;)

[Lozzo]

[
Could someone please explain to me what is more fun about a supermoto on a twisty road than a sports bike.


Nothing. They're slower, twitchier, and uncomfortable.

Why people spunk so much hard earned money on Supermotos is beyond me, they are totally impractical motorcycles with few redeeming features.

[rictus01]

Nothing. They're slower, twitchier, and uncomfortable.

Why people spunk so much hard earned money on Supermotos is beyond me, they are totally impractical motorcycles with few redeeming features.

:smt044

[DanAbnormal]

No such thing as a wrong bike imho.

But you knew that already. ;)

[Stu]

Any fool can ride fast in a straight line. I don't see where the fun is at drag strips. 1/4 mile of flat out riding for about 10 seconds,... wow whoopee-doo.
Then why do they crash so much? :???: 1/4 mile in under 9 secs reaching well over 150mph can be impressive

On thing i went to see on Brighton seafront was :
64ft F/Speed Finish
380 ROGER SIMMONS Suzuki Hayabusa 1.74 157 8.89
371 RICHARD ALBANS Suzuki Hayabusa 1.62 148 9.22
377 CRAIG MALLABONE Suzuki Hayabusa 1.84 158 9.30
384 STEVE WOOD Suzuki Hayabusa 1.87 149 9.56
378 STEPHEN MEAD Suzuki Hayabusa 1.74 138 9.59
375 DAVID HALL Suzuki GSXR 1100L 1.79 141 9.62

[the_lone_wolf]

Nothing. They're slower, twitchier, and uncomfortable.

Why people spunk so much hard earned money on Supermotos is beyond me, they are totally impractical motorcycles with few redeeming features.

as opposed to a sportsbike which is fast, twitchy and uncomfortable, totally impractical with few redeeming features?

[Sosha]

Most comfortable bike I've sat on from the point of view of pegs bars windscreen where I want them - would be Messies R6.... go figure :confused:

If I wanted a bike purely for comutting into central london and sunday afternoon local entertainment, then a Supermoto would jump to the head of the queue.
But I don't.

There you go - one waste of bandwidth over and out.

[Luckypants]

I agree, but I love it! Best bike I've ever had, never realised before how much fun twisty lanes were!!

Could someone please explain to me what is more fun about a supermoto on a twisty road than a sports bike.

The term used was lanes...... i can see the attraction of an SM bike on lanes, which I have in abundance around here. I would not take the Viffer or SV down them, too narrow, bumpy and tight. The DRZ I have would be great on these without the gripless (on tarmac) knobbly tyres - I just described an SM bike.

As to Brits buying the wrong bikes, I see where the point comes from. But surely we just buy the bikes we like/want?

[ogden]

The right bike is the one I enjoy riding, that pushes my buttons and doesn't leave me longing for something different.

What an utterly pointless debate.

[fizzwheel]

The right bike is the one I enjoy riding, that pushes my buttons and doesn't leave me longing for something different.

So that would be any Honda then ?

[ogden]

So that would be any ***** then ?

For once I'm glad of the profanity filter.

[fizzwheel]

For once I'm glad of the profanity filter.

:D

[embee]

I suppose there's no real right or wrong, most things are more or less of a compromise. I'd equally say that Britain drives the wrong cars, 90% of owners would probably be "better off" (whatever that might mean) with a different car, but it's heads and hearts.

As for bikes, well an awful lot of owners and riders (not always the same thing) go for what they want not what they need, but is that wrong? Don't think so.

I know I'm a boring old f9rt, but I'm lucky enough to be able to have a selection of cars and bikes so I can indulge myself a bit. My main car does exactly what I need of it, 100% reliable, cheap to run, 1.0L Yaris, but then I have a sports car too.
I've got an SV650S which is fantastic fun and I love it, but I also have a Deauville because it's simply the most competent practical middleweight tourer around, live with one and you'll begin to understand.

If I had to have only one car or one bike, which would it be?
Hmmmm, tricky :-k:smt102

[yorkie_chris]

Horses for courses. Simple as.

[Alpinestarhero]

I would love a honda SP2 as a weekend toy, a peice of HRC to call my own and to ride my favorite roads and (sometimes) brands hatch.

But my SV is fine on the road for me. I would really love a triumph tiger 1050. Apparently GSXR750's are pretty ok on the road, as far as sports bikes go. I'm yet to ride my dads, but from sitting on it i can tell i wouldnt be to uncomfy riding it every day. A yamaha fazer 1000 would be brilliant.

But, really, at the end of the day, as long as what I ride isnt a bus (so no harley or goldwing!) and enables me to filter through london traffic, its the right bike for me.

[ogden]

Apparently GSXR750's are pretty ok on the road, as far as sports bikes go. I'm yet to ride my dads, but from sitting on it i can tell i wouldnt be to uncomfy riding it every day.

I only did one long-ish run on mine (London to Chimay, in Belgium) and it was absolutely fine. The ZX7R I had a few years ago was similarly comfy, though a bit heavier.

As for commuting through London, anything short of a Goldwing will do the job (and I know someone who's commuted to the City on one of those).

The "right" bike is whatever you want it to be. Unless it's a H*nda, obviously.

[madness]

Scooter, 600cc/750cc/1000cc Sports Bike, Supermoto, Cruiser, Allrounder, whatever.
Does it really matter what you ride as long as you enjoy it? I'm sure most of us could have fun on pretty much anything in the right circumstances.

[shonadoll]

http://typo.graphr.net/images/owl-nowai.jpg

but seriously, just because you don't use a bike on a track doesn't mean you're never going to enjoy it on the road does it?

No, of course it doesn't, but then I didn't say that. There will always be people who do use a sportsbike on and off track, but by their very nature-ie superfast, if you ride one to its full potential on the road, you'd be banned.

But of course it's down to individual comfort, taste, etc.

[-Ralph-]

I'm wandering if a lot peopls perception of what sports bikes are like to ride are based on these magazine articles rather than actual experience......

I've only ridden one modern 600 sportsbike and that was a gixxer. Maybe I'm too fat, or maybe there was something wrong with it, or maybe it doesn't like thin air at altitiude in Mexico, or the petrol octane is too low, I don't know, but the damn thing just didn't go until you got it above 9000 revs, then it went ballistic up to the redline and you were doing 150 mph before you knew what was happening. Rediculously quick, but not quick enough when I wanted it to be. For everyday riding between 0 and 100 mph I prefer the SV.

I told Independant Photo what I thought about it before he test rode it at a Suzuki dealer open day in Edinburgh, his comment afterwards was "yes, I see exactly what you mean" and he changed his mind and decided to stick with the SV.

Sorry, just my actual experience.

[fizzwheel]

Ralph what year gixer was it do you know ?

[Alpinestarhero]

I found the riding position of the 600 gsxr was way more racey than the 750. cant remember the thou...i tend to not really go about sitting on thou's because i dont think i'll ever own a 1000cc sports bike. Although if i did, it'd be an R1. lovely bikes, comfy riding position, and very reasonable intervals between valve clearance checks. And nick sanders rode around the world on one quite succesfully

[-Ralph-]

What an utterly pointless debate.

Perhaps, which is why I kept my mouth shut until somebody asked. I was in two minds about whether to reply


It's not hard to guess what it means really, but do you want me to get completely flamed and become very unpopular?.

but I thought, what the hell, somebody has asked, it's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it. I only ask that people respect the opinion, I don't ask that they agree with it. It only seems to be the sportsbike riders that are getting edgy about it.

[fizzwheel]

but I thought, what the hell, somebody has asked, it's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it. I only ask that people respect the opinion, I don't ask that they agree with it.

To right :cool:


It only seems to be the sportsbike riders that are getting edgy about it.

Its riding a rev hungry, no torque, no midrange, uncomfortable over long distances only good for a track sports bike, its warped my tiny little mind :p

Actually joking aside, I think this is a damn good thread :cool:

[-Ralph-]

Ralph what year gixer was it do you know ?

I don't exactly, Mexico is usually a model or two behind (my friend wants the F800GS, but it's not released yet), but it was bought new last year. Sportsbikes only sell in Mexico to guys who can afford expensive toys, so it could have been old stock. Lets assume no more than 2-3 years old in UK terms.

[the_lone_wolf]

if you ride one to its full potential on the road, you'd be banned.
you could ride a DRZ400 to it's full potential and get banned...
Rediculously quick, but not quick enough when I wanted it to be. For everyday riding between 0 and 100 mph I prefer the SV.

I told Independant Photo what I thought about it before he test rode it at a Suzuki dealer open day in Edinburgh, his comment afterwards was "yes, I see exactly what you mean" and he changed his mind and decided to stick with the SV.

Sorry, just my actual experience.

if only someone designed and built a sportsbike with not only the mental peak power of the latest 600s but also the low down torque and flexible engine of the SV...

oh wait, they did, it's the Daytona 675:mrgreen:

[fizzwheel]

I found the riding position of the 600 gsxr was way more racey than the 750.

See thats interesting because the later 600 / 750 use the same chassis... so it shoudlnt feel any different riding position wise...

[fizzwheel]

Lets assume no more than 2-3 years old in UK terms.

So something like a K4 / K5... I rode a K6 and it made plenty of power at 6000rpm. I would have thought that would have to...

I will admit it did take me a little while to adjust to the IL4 after riding the SV, Maybe it was a little of that coupled with the altitude perhaps ?

[ogden]

See thats interesting because the later 600 / 750 use the same chassis... so it shoudlnt feel any different riding position wise...

I don't know about the 600, but I can say that for the K4-era gixers the thou has a far more aggressive riding position than the 750.

[-Ralph-]

Actually joking aside, I think this is a damn good thread

Just a pity it's decended into the usual sportsbikes are good, sportsbikes are bad, DRZ400s are awful and Ralph's talking bollox, when the intention was much more simple....

It's about people who have ridden, loved and lusted after sports bikes all their lives, riding something different and saying to themselves, "hey I really enjoy this", and there is no denying that Britain is changing it's attitudes to the bikes it rides, just look at the sales trends.

and I don't thing anyone can deny that is happening

I will admit it did take me a little while to adjust to the IL4 after riding the SV, Maybe it was a little of that coupled with the altitude perhaps ?

I think riding side by side defintely makes a difference to how you percieve the bike.

I have changed car from a 130bhp 2.0 diesel to a 140bhp 1.8 petrol. The petrol is a lot slower in most situations absolutely no doubt about it. I've had to learn to start driving everywhere between 3 and 4 thousand revs in situations where I want power on tap, but IMHO I find the increase in engine noise and the gear changing more fatiging.

I felt the same about a 600 Bandit. I'd rather just have power on tap right from low revs and concentrate on getting the best out of the road rather than worrying about getting the best out of the bike.

[fizzwheel]

I don't know about the 600, but I can say that for the K4-era gixers the thou has a far more aggressive riding position than the 750.

I've not ridden a thou so I cant compare it, according the ride magzaine review of the 750, the K4 / K5 750 is what the 600 is based on, so the 600 / 750 from that era should be the same riding position wise.

[-Ralph-]

I've not ridden a thou so I cant compare it, according the ride magzaine review of the 750, the K4 / K5 750 is what the 600 is based on, so the 600 / 750 from that era should be the same riding position wise.

Maybe clip-ons and pegs are different.

[evertheoptimist]

ha ha britain rides the right bikes , its the roads and the weather thats wrong once we have those sorted we will all be on "big bang"

[fizzwheel]

I think riding side by side defintely makes a difference to how you percieve the bike.

Yep definately and if I want reminding theres Liz's SV in the garage so I can compare them back to back if needs be. Also theres the Ducati in the garage as well so I can compare that directly with the SV and the GSXR to. I guess I'm lucky in that respect but it really does help me realise what I want from a bike.


I felt the same about a 600 Bandit. I'd rather just have power on tap right from low revs

I do know what you mean, but then thats why I bought the 750 over the 600. You oughta try a Bandit 1250 you'll love that if thats what you're after ( if you havent already that is )


and concentrate on getting the best out of the road rather than worrying about getting the best out of the bike.

Thats what I like, I like having to think about everything, getting the best from the road and the best from the bike. It needs thinking about and for me that makes riding a sportsbike so involving, well for me anyway. If thats means I'm in the minority and the majority move away from buying a sports bike and I'm the odd one out. Well I'm not bothered by that at all :D

I also think that the SV made me very lazy with regard to throttle control. I just used to wind on the throttle and then let the bike pull itself round the corner. I did that a couple of times on the GSXR and lets just say I didnt do that again. I think its made me a better rider, my throttle control has to be much more precise now. I've gelled with it, much miuch more than I ever did with the SV, but I guess I've just found the right bike for me.

[fizzwheel]

Maybe clip-ons and pegs are different.

Maybe, or maybe just positioned differently.

[-Ralph-]

ha ha britain rides the right bikes , its the roads and the weather thats wrong once we have those sorted we will all be on "big bang"

Now thats logic I like :p

Magic the whole country into Scottish roads with, Isle of Man speed limits, Shetland levels of traffic, brillant sunshine, and suddenly Britain rides the right bikes. :thumright:

[Ed]

if only someone designed and built a sportsbike with not only the mental peak power of the latest 600s but also the low down torque and flexible engine of the SV...

oh wait, they did, it's the Daytona 675:mrgreen:

+1. And it's not uncomfortable, although maybe it's cos I'm so used to it and to its D650 predecessor. I don't get back/neck/wristache. While it was having its exup valve unjammed at the dealers Saturday, I sat on a Tiger, it felt so - well - upright. I'm 5'11" and I could barely get my left foot down, and definitely not both feet. First thought was 'how the hell are you supposed to ride this?' Although I daresay I'd get used to it.

[-Ralph-]

I've gelled with it, much miuch more than I ever did with the SV, but I guess I've just found the right bike for me.

The SV is not the best bike to gel with, lets be honest (unless the suspension beats you into a gel!), so I'm not particularly surprised to hear that, but it's cheap and cheerful and has loads of plus points, so we shouldn't complain about it or compare it to a 7 grand bike.

I had wanted to replace the SV with something more comfortable but of the same value and test ride an RSVR Factory as a weekend toy. (older Bandit 1200 was on that shopping list, haven't ridden one though, as was a DL1000 and a Varadero, but the post crash state of the SV means I'll probably now keep it, put helibars on it, and run it into the ground).

You would need to be very precise with the throttle on the RSVR I would imagine and can see myself gelling with it, but I would never be worrying about being in the right gear, so I could still ride lazy with the clutch and gears and I love bikes that pull at any revs. If I test ride one and don't like it I'll be gutted 'cos I've spent so long looking at them.

However, every sports bike I've sat on recently, including the RSVR feels canted forward, heavy on the wrists, hard seat, etc, must just be my body shape (and perhaps some of the chunky monkey effect), so it would have to be a weekend toy. If I could only afford one bike, and had to trade in the SV to buy it, I'd probably be buying a Sprint ST 1050.

[-Ralph-]

+1. And it's not uncomfortable, although maybe it's cos I'm so used to it and to its D650 predecessor. I don't get back/neck/wristache. While it was having its exup valve unjammed at the dealers Saturday, I sat on a Tiger, it felt so - well - upright. I'm 5'11" and I could barely get my left foot down, and definitely not both feet. First thought was 'how the hell are you supposed to ride this?' Although I daresay I'd get used to it.

I think this comfort thing must be down to individual body shape and perhaps age, as so many folk are saying their sports bikes are comfortable, but a full days riding in some of the stuff I've sat on, would make me hurt in places I didn't know I had.

You do need to be tall for the Tiger, I rode it a couple of weeks ago, and it was fine for me but I'm 6ft. Kilted Ginger struggled a bit, he's six foot also but he's longer in the body and shorter in the leg. The DRZ SM feels like climbing on a bl00dy horse!

[suicidesam]

... older Bandit 1200 was on that shopping list, haven't ridden one though...

One here if ya wanna see what it's like ;)
I'm of the same thinking.. SV > 748 > 748 as weekend toy & 600 Bandit through the week > 1200 Bandit full time. Loved the way the Duke pulled from nothing but it killed me on long runs, 1200's got big grunt from nowt to the red line.. one gear does all :mrgreen:

[fizzwheel]

I think this comfort thing must be down to individual body shape and perhaps age, as so many folk are saying their sports bikes are comfortable, but a full days riding in some of the stuff I've sat on, would make me hurt in places I didn't know I had.

I think some of it is down to basic stuff, i.e. adjusting your bike to fit you. I had awful trouble with sore wrists on my SV when I first got it, all I did to fix it was to rotate the brake and clutch levers around the bars so it put my wrist into a more comfortable position. Never had an ounce of sore / achey wrist after that.

My GSXR felt like I was about to fall off the front of it when I first got it and heavy on the wrists, I did the same with that and rotated the levers around the bars, again not had an ounce of sore wrist trouble.

Liz's Ducati you sit so far over the front of it, that so see the idiot lights and the top bit of the rev counter, you need to look down through the screen to see whats going on.

I think the canted over feeling is something you get used to after a while, but it does feel weird to start with. But now I'm used to it, riding an SVS or something like a bandit feels weird as I feel like I'm sat really really upright.

I really think its something you get used to TBH.

[ogden]

Of "Older bandit 1200s"

One here if ya wanna see what it's like ;)

If your sig is correct, and you have a K4 b12, you don't have an 'older bandit 1200', you have one of the later, softened ones.

[Ceri JC]

ha ha britain rides the right bikes , its the roads and the weather thats wrong once we have those sorted we will all be on "big bang"

You certainly live up to your username. ;)

[ogden]

On this being an utterly pointless debate:

Perhaps, which is why I kept my mouth shut until somebody asked. I was in two minds about whether to reply

but I thought, what the hell, somebody has asked, it's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it. I only ask that people respect the opinion, I don't ask that they agree with it. It only seems to be the sportsbike riders that are getting edgy about it.

The reason I say it's pointless is because for there to be such a thing as the wrong bike there would have to be such a thing as the right bike and it should be fairly obvious that there isn't.

[Ceri JC]

On this being an utterly pointless debate:

The reason I say it's pointless is because for there to be such a thing as the wrong bike there would have to be such a thing as the right bike and it should be fairly obvious that there isn't.

I remember some old article by Hunter S Thompson where he explained very eloquently how no one had really made a motorbike that was truly an "all rounder" and how they were generally much more specialised than cars. I think this is still true today; bikes that are marketed as "all rounders" (including our beloved SV) are generally just more suited to a number of tasks than most motorbikes are. To make them approach something that at another bike excels at, out of the box, usually requires some degree of modification and even then it's a compromised solution. I'd say an F800GS is one of the best "all round" bikes in terms of numbers of things it can do well, but even with significant tuning it'd still get trounced by a 600cc supersport on a racetrack. Likewise, even with the addition of gel seats and a topbox with a backrest, it'd be poor at two up motorway riding compared to a Goldwing.

I suppose the answer is to buy a bike that best suits the thing you do most and can just about cope with the other things you need it to do. If you can afford two or even three bikes, you can widen this spectrum and choose bikes that are better at their specialised task without worrying too much about the things they do poorly.

[-Ralph-]

The reason I say it's pointless is because for there to be such a thing as the wrong bike there would have to be such a thing as the right bike and it should be fairly obvious that there isn't.

The word "wrong" in my signature isn't meant to be taken literally, it's just a sweeping statement.

I suppose the answer is to buy a bike that best suits the thing you do most

Which is entirely the point of the signature. Britain is traditionally a sportsbike buying nation when compared to other nations round the world. The majority of brits have always wanted the lastest, greatest and fastest race replicas, regardless of what it is they are intending to do with them. (Only a Brit could go round the world on an R1!)

That trend is changing, more and more riders are starting to try different bikes and realise that they actually enjoy their riding more, because the bike does something for them which they wanted (maybe faster leaving the B&B in the morning 'cos luggage clips on in two seconds, maybe a comfy seat lets them ride a full tank without stopping, maybe sub speed limit hooliganism on a supermoto, maybe they found that they really enjoy green laning), but they never realised they wanted it , because they walked into a showroom every three years and immediately put down a deposit on a new sportsbike. It could also be because the biking population is getting older and wants and needs are different.

[Dal]

I've read most of the posts to this thread not all as a lot of them simply argued for the sake of it.

I agree whole heartedly with RALPH sportsbikes and I mean specifically IL4's are a waste of time for most riding and are purchased by people who worry about what other people think of their bike.

And before you all start I'm one of you, just look at my bike list over the last few years

2003 SV650S
1999 Triumph ST Sprint
2005 Aprilia RSVR
2003 Kawasaki ZX6R (B1H)
Kawasaki ZXR400 x 2
Suzuki TL1000S x 2
2004 Aprilia RSV Factory
2005 Suzuki GSXR 750K5
Yamaha R6 x 2 Current Bikes

Now I don't commute I have cars for that, My bikes are used for Sunny day runs and track days (which is why I have 2)

But realistically they are all the wrong bike. The later road R6 will be sold shortly and I'll be buying something practical, what I don't know yet but one of the most enjoyable bikes I've owned was the SV650s which is why I'm here and let's not kid ourselves there sports bikes there tourers at best :smt110

What's Europes best selling bike it was (although not sure what it is now) the Kawasaki Z750

[ogden]

I agree whole heartedly with RALPH sportsbikes and I mean specifically IL4's are a waste of time for most riding and are purchased by people who worry about what other people think of their bike.

one of the most enjoyable bikes I've owned was the SV650s which is why I'm here and let's not kid ourselves there sports bikes there tourers at best

Wah wah wah.

Look, I had an SV650. It bored me rigid. On that basis, it must have been "the wrong bike". For me. On the flip side, the thou is absolute overkill but the 750 I had before it was pretty much perfect.

Posters to this thread seem to fall into two camps - those who think people ride the wrong bike, and people who are happy with the bike(s) they've got. I suspect the problem isn't necessarily the bike, iyswim.

[Tiger 55]

IL4's are a waste of time for most riding and are purchased by people who worry about what other people think of their bike.
I salute you Dal. :salut:

It takes a big man to admit he's wrong.

I would be a little bit careful about projecting your own failings on to other people though.

[Dal]

I would be a little bit careful about projecting your own failings on to other people though.

Hey I'm not projecting anything on to others (unless I've had to much to drink) I'm simply offering my opinion O:)

[wow]

Which is entirely the point of the signature. Britain is traditionally a sportsbike buying nation when compared to other nations round the world. The majority of brits have always wanted the lastest, greatest and fastest race replicas, regardless of what it is they are intending to do with them. (Only a Brit could go round the world on an R1!)

That trend is changing, more and more riders are starting to try different bikes and realise that they actually enjoy their riding more, because the bike does something for them which they wanted (maybe faster leaving the B&B in the morning 'cos luggage clips on in two seconds, maybe a comfy seat lets them ride a full tank without stopping, maybe sub speed limit hooliganism on a supermoto, maybe they found that they really enjoy green laning), but they never realised they wanted it , because they walked into a showroom every three years and immediately put down a deposit on a new sportsbike. It could also be because the biking population is getting older and wants and needs are different.

I have found this thead interesting reading but it hasn't answered what I was hoping it would answer. It seems Britain is obsessed with sportsbikes compared with countries around them with similar roads. Why?

There must be a reason for it. I don't know maybe this country is obsessed with speed. Many of the formula 1 teams are based here etc etc (i know this is cars but still speed). Goodwood, Brooklands race track etc. Is it history, culture?

Or maybe we have more riders who are into getting the best out of their bike, wanting to 'work their bike'.

Maybe we have less riders who are interested in touring and looking at the scenery compared to other countries.

It's probably something silly & strange we haven't thought of.

Or maybe it's just what we're used to here and marketing.

Maybe one day we will find out.

Congrats to everyone on the forum for having such a civilised debate on here. :thumright:

Safe riding everyone :riding: