View Full Version : Blipping the throttle after changing down a gear.
Ruthja2801
23-02-09, 12:54 PM
This sounds like a really silly question, but on my 125 i got away with changing down a gear when the engine revs are too high, ya get slug forward a little but thats it!
But obviusly on a bigger bike it won't be as forgiving and besides i wanna do it properly!
So if the engine revs are too high when i change down i know to blip the throttle but when!
Clutch in change down do i blip before releasing clutch or whilst or what??!!??
Sorry if it sounds a daft ?
fizzwheel
23-02-09, 12:57 PM
Clutch in change down do i blip before releasing clutch
Thats how I do it.
Takes a little practice but its a useful skill to acquire IMHO.
Dont shift down you're gears when the revs are still high..
If you do this, and also release the clutch too fast, you risk locking the back..
Its hard to explain, but you will just get used to you're bike..
But someone will come along and explain it to you, i cant explain what i do, just seems to happen..
Just blip the throttle when the clutch is in.
I do the same thing in a car when I change down the box. Same principles, but not many do it in the car too.
More noticable on a twin than a 4.
Ruthja2801
23-02-09, 01:02 PM
Dont shift down you're gears when the revs are still high..
If you do this, and also release the clutch too fast, you risk locking the back..
Its hard to explain, but you will just get used to you're bike..
But someone will come along and explain it to you, i cant explain what i do, just seems to happen..
yh thanks, i'm aware of having the engine revs far to high and the implications of them being a lot higher than the gearbox!
Maybe i need to fit a slipper clutch, i am a bit lethal!
I'll get the hang of it!! :D
Dont shift down you're gears when the revs are still high..
If you do this, and also release the clutch too fast, you risk locking the back..
.
Completely wrong.
Dont shift down you're gears when the revs are too low..
That's the point of blipping the throttle.
Just do it all at once.
Anyway you can do it will probably work except for blipping after you have already let out the clutch :oops:
fizzwheel
23-02-09, 01:02 PM
Same principles, but not many do it in the car too.
I do, heel and toe.
yorkie_chris
23-02-09, 01:11 PM
Clutch in, slight pressure downwards on the lever as you blip the throttle. It will drop into gear nicely. You will get the hang of it.
Re. the sliding the back wheel, you're not forced to dump the clutch you know.
I do, heel and toe.
We are the elite :batman:
Someone explain blipping the throttle?
yorkie_chris
23-02-09, 01:18 PM
Rev the engine.
I can ride, but blipping the throttle after you change down...
Meaning just opening the throttle when you change down? :S
st220_mike
23-02-09, 01:22 PM
We are the elite :batman:
Amen to that. H&T is the way forward. spent years trying to perfect it in the car. Interestingly manufacturers are trying to replicate this in all the flappy paddle boxes, and on the new Nissan 370Z they're even going to make it happen automatically with a manual!
yorkie_chris
23-02-09, 01:25 PM
I can ride, but blipping the throttle after you change down...
Meaning just opening the throttle when you change down? :S
Yes.
Change down and at some point rev the motor.
To look at an extreme case, if you shift down and let the motor tick over with the clutch in. Natural speed for say 3rd gear at 70 would be 7000rpm or so (for example). So you dump the clutch, the wheel attempts to overcome all the inertia of the engine to spin it up to 7000rpm, fails dismally and the tyre slides all over the place.
So, you blip the throttle to 7k, let the clutch out, road speed and engine speed are now perfectly matched and you have engine braking without breaking the wheel loose.
Just go and do it, it's harder to explain than it is to do.
Just blip the throttle when the clutch is in.
Aye i understand..
Alot harder to think what is it people are talking about, when you dont think about it, it just happens..
Luckypants
23-02-09, 01:26 PM
Dont shift down you're gears when the revs are still high..
If you do this, and also release the clutch too fast, you risk locking the back..
Its hard to explain, but you will just get used to you're bike..
But someone will come along and explain it to you, i cant explain what i do, just seems to happen..
Someone explain blipping the throttle?
If you don't know what blipping the throttle is, why are you giving advice on it in this thread?
Similiar to slipping the clutch, revving the engine to the right revs for the gear you just chaned down into, while the clutch is still pulled in..
Is that why, new drivers in cars, when they change gears, they like jerk forward a few times..?
dizzyblonde
23-02-09, 01:28 PM
How did my instructor describe it.....wring your dishcloth out. As your pulling one way on your clutch lever, your 'wringing' your throttle(gently) the other way.
Makes sense to me.
yorkie_chris
23-02-09, 01:30 PM
You will get the hang of it with time. When the back wheel stays pointing the same way as the front, and there are no expensive noises then you have the hang of it :-P
At low speeds it's not so important, but at higher rpms then it makes some nasty crunching if you don't do anything.
plowsie
23-02-09, 01:33 PM
Forget all the advice on here, wet road, wd40 on your rear tyre, click down two gears, loadsa back brake, and sliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide, use the front to slow you more. Bit too much gas, rear out of line on exit, control it, square it all up and have the biggest grin on ya face!
Okay, so that was a joke!
Blipping is an art at first then it becomes norm. Clutch in, blip (for me is a bloody fistful cos me carbs are fecked), as you return the throttle, clutch out smoothly.
How can any bike rider not know what "blipping the throttle is?"
Shame on you :(
fizzwheel
23-02-09, 02:40 PM
How can any bike rider not know what "blipping the throttle is?"
Alot of people dont. its not something they teach you doing DAS or CBT either.
Doesnt make them less of a motorcyclist just because they dont know about it IMHO.
yorkie_chris
23-02-09, 02:40 PM
No such thing as a stupid question. It doesn't surprise me that you're not familiar with the term.
Training for the test involves no "right, crunch it down 3 gears, chuck it into the bend going "f##k f##k f##k" then on realising you're still alive, whack the throttle wide open and repeat..." It's just not applicable to the real world this license b0llocks.
I had never heard the term before in my life..
Everything that i do on my bike, just happens, only been on one SV ecosse ride out, and met up with the Local guys a few times..
Apart from that, and my DAS, thats all the riding time i have had when not being on my own..
dizzyblonde
23-02-09, 02:44 PM
Training for the test involves no "right, crunch it down 3 gears, chuck it into the bend going "f##k f##k f##k" then on realising you're still alive, whack the throttle wide open and repeat..." It's just not applicable to the real world this license b0llocks.
my instructor didn't just train me for a test though. He trained me to ride a bike. He didn't like the sound of expensive noises...not that any of the bikes in the school were his bikes. Which is why he gave me the 'wringing the dishcloth' tip. much much quieter:-D
doesn't mean I always get it right though...sometimes I can hear myself shouting ''''stopppp that right now...kerching''':rolleyes:
fizzwheel
23-02-09, 02:45 PM
my instructor didn't just train me for a test though.
But alot of riding schools arent like that. Mine wasnt. I got taught to pass my test and that was it.
dizzyblonde
23-02-09, 02:48 PM
I was lucky Fizz...I've heard plenty of folk saying this. Its why I walked from my first school halfway through my CBT. The second school were a lot better. Bob even said we don't train people for a test, we like people to be able to ride a bike properly when they leave us.
Another reason for wanting to join them training others.
fizzwheel
23-02-09, 02:55 PM
I was lucky Fizz...
And in the minority. Which is why I was saying, that alot of people dont know about this and why we shouldnt think less of people just because they dont know how to do it or even what it is.
Apart from smoking like a chimney, which i didnt mind, my instructor was really good..
Thats compared to what i have heard on here about others..
Did my CBT also with him, doesnt do more than 2 learners at a time, which means we got quality training, and taught me to ride also, rather than to pass the test.
dizzyblonde
23-02-09, 02:57 PM
I don't think any less of folk either for not hearing of the term. Its all part of a learning curve.....no matter how long you've been at it, theres always something to learn.
I think a lot of riding schools won't teach two finger braking, never mind blip-throttle downchanges.
Start braking with two fingers first (I'd say). And then start learning the timing of the blip and clutch and gear lever without touching the brakes. Then combine the two.
ArtyLady
23-02-09, 03:11 PM
......
Doesnt make them less of a motorcyclist just because they dont know about it IMHO.
Thank goodness for that then because although I know all about it and how it works, I never use it - I was never taught it in advanced training either - I can change gear perfectly smoothly without doing it :cool:
yorkie_chris
23-02-09, 03:13 PM
I don't see how that is possible unless you are riding at about 2mph... or you just stick it in 4th and leave it there.
Trying to downshift to put the revs up to 6 or 7000 rpm to get decent drive out of a corner needs revs, or it makes really unpleasant crunchy noises, which cause a sharp stabbing pain in my wallet.
ArtyLady
23-02-09, 03:19 PM
I don't see how that is possible unless you are riding at about 2mph... or you just stick it in 4th and leave it there.
Trying to downshift to put the revs up to 6 or 7000 rpm to get decent drive out of a corner needs revs, or it makes really unpleasant crunchy noises, which cause a sharp stabbing pain in my wallet.
Well I'm sure those who have ridden with me will vouch for me - I think I'm a fairly smooth and steady rider - and I don't stay in one gear I use my gears :confused:
petevtwin650
23-02-09, 03:31 PM
I put a vid up on Youtube a while back trying to demonstrate the blipping technique. It's poor quality as it's only a digi camera in vid mode.
However you can clearly hear the quick downshifts at 30 secs, coming up to a car, 40secs, approaching a narrow bridge on a right hand bend and at 1.40, 2.05 and 3.30.
My carbs were also banjaxed so that's why it sounds a bit stuttery.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smqHpBZ4-GY
plowsie
23-02-09, 03:43 PM
My carbs were also banjaxed so that's why it sound a bit stuttery.
A man with problems alike :lol: Man I sympathise with you now :(
diamond
23-02-09, 03:44 PM
I never blip the throttle ever, not on the SV or the Ducati and i wouldn't say i ride every where at 2mph, well only when i'm stuck behind Fizz. I've just never seen the need.
ArtyLady
23-02-09, 03:49 PM
I never blip the throttle ever, not on the SV or the Ducati and i wouldn't say i ride every where at 2mph, well only when i'm stuck behind Fizz. I've just never seen the need.
Thank goodness for that - I was beginning to think I was a total freak! (well maybe I am just a little ;))
diamond
23-02-09, 03:54 PM
Thank goodness for that - I was beginning to think I was a total freak! (well maybe I am just a little ;))
Fizz is so bad he even blips before he pulls away at lights:confused: He says it's a habit from his 2 stroke days. All i know is the time it takes him to do it means i'm 100 yards up the road before he gets going.
petevtwin650
23-02-09, 04:00 PM
I never blip the throttle ever, not on the SV or the Ducati and i wouldn't say i ride every where at 2mph, well only when i'm stuck behind Fizz. I've just never seen the need.
Thank goodness for that - I was beginning to think I was a total freak! (well maybe I am just a little ;))
Must be a guy thing. To make as much noise as is possible. [-o<
He says it's a habit from his 2 stroke days.
Poor Fizz, fancy only managing 2 strokes. :smt040:smt040
ArtyLady
23-02-09, 04:12 PM
Fizz is so bad he even blips before he pulls away at lights:confused: He says it's a habit from his 2 stroke days. All i know is the time it takes him to do it means i'm 100 yards up the road before he gets going.
That's the only time I do it! - stationary at the lights haha!! just cos it makes a nice noise :mrgreen:
fizzwheel
23-02-09, 04:17 PM
Poor Fizz, fancy only managing 2 strokes. :smt040:smt040
Do you want banning Diesel boy...
Actually the blipping from lights is a habit I got into with my two stroke 125, it never idled very well and I had it die on me a couple of times and left me stranded in the middle of a busy junction and it was a pig to kick start when it wasnt warmed up properly, so I used to find there was less chance of it dieing off if I gave it a little blip before I went to pull away.
Like Liz says she doesnt blip and shes not a slow rider by any means, Unless like she says shes behind me :lol:
yorkie_chris
23-02-09, 04:27 PM
revving up the strokers just so they will clear their throat is fairly standard stuff, not much point on a refined IL4 though...
fizzwheel
23-02-09, 04:28 PM
not much point on a refined IL4 though...
No I know, but it has become a habit and I quite like the sound of it to.
I don't want to be one to tell people how they should ride, but if you're making the kind of gearchanges where it's popularly accepted to be necessary to rev-match (by blipping the throttle), i.e you make a downchange as you start to brake, then you'll notice that you're not doing it. (Unless you let the clutch back out reaaaaallllly slowwwwlly, I suppose that would soften the impact).
there's only 2 methods - match revs on the clutch or match revs on the throttle. If you do it with the throttle it means you can dump the clutch and get the power back on faster. Mostly useful when changing down for power, on bike or in car, as you're not braking then. Also saves clutch wear.
Once you can blip you never go back. It's also different for every bike you ride cos the engines rev up at different speeds and respond at different throttle openings. On my gfs 125, you just don't shut the throttle at all - keep it wide open, clutch in, downshift, clutch out - by that point the revs have just increased enough to match the roadspeed in the new gear. Don't recommend that on an SV tho.
dizzyblonde
23-02-09, 05:02 PM
Must be a guy thing. To make as much noise as is possible. [-o<
ahem cough:neutral:
Nostrils
23-02-09, 05:18 PM
I blip the SV and heel-toe in the car. Not sure exactly when, it just seems right and appropriate when I do it. I remember when I was thinking about it too much on the SV and the back wheel locked up a couple of time, decided not to do it anymore that day just in case and found myself doing it again unconsciously!
i locked the back wheel on my 125 saved it then read in bike magazine a few months later about blipping the throttle been perfercting it since, now i don't even think about it.
ArtyLady
23-02-09, 05:25 PM
Well....it ain't broke so I ain't gonna fix it ;)
Fizz is so bad he even blips before he pulls away at lights:confused: .
Ooooh That's really bad ... if it means revving the engine before changing from neutral to 1st at rest :(
But I'm sure you mean something else given we're talking about the fizzmeister 8)
Oh you've changed your name, which I understand & like, but the avatar :???:
Alpinestarhero
23-02-09, 06:27 PM
I blip whenever I change down, even if its only a little bit when im at low revs. High revs I give a maaasssssiiiivvvveeee blip and I love it :D:D
diamond
23-02-09, 07:02 PM
Oh you've changed your name, which I understand & like, but the avatar :???:
She's Nessa from Gavin and Stacey, we are into watching that at the moment. Fizz had a Gavin and stacey avatar up until this weekend as well.
Ruthja2801
23-02-09, 08:33 PM
Crikey only expected a few answers!
One more question i think i had a habit on the 125 of approaching corners to fast and what i would do is approach the corner brake a little pull the clutch in change into second and hold the clutch in until i had got round the corner and then accelarate! I know i'll be different on the SV but so i need to release the clutch before the corner, i'm guessing yes because you lose all drive and control?
fizzwheel
23-02-09, 08:44 PM
One more question i think i had a habit on the 125 of approaching corners to fast and what i would do is approach the corner brake a little pull the clutch in change into second and hold the clutch in until i had got round the corner and then accelarate! I know i'll be different on the SV but so i need to release the clutch before the corner, i'm guessing yes because you lose all drive and control?
Yep dont coast round the corner with the clutch in, as you say you've no control of the bike that way.
Brake in a straight line approaching the corner, set your speed at turn into the corner. Hold a constant throttle and then once the road opens out then begin to wind the throttle on, gently and progressively.
If you've gone in to fast drag a little bit of back brake as that will help you slow down, it'll also help to turn the bike if you are running a bit wide.
Under no circumstances pull on the front brake, it makes the bike sit up straight and you may well find yourself having a bike - hedge interface.
4000 - 5000rpm in anygear is a good place to be as you have some engine braking at that point in the RPM range and the SV will pick up nicely from there to fire you out of the corner onto the straight or into the next corner.
Practice makes perfect, find a bit of road that you know well and practice practice practice.
Remeber look where you want the bike to go. Dont look at the hedge or the lampost that you might be running towards, dont look at the tarmac 2 inches in front of you. lift your head and look down the road to where you want to be.
dizzyblonde
23-02-09, 08:46 PM
approaching corners to fast and what i would do is approach the corner brake a little pull the clutch in change into second and hold the clutch in until i had got round the corner and then accelarate!
ooooooo naughty naughty. Unfortunately this weekend on our rideout I have been guilty of this a couple of times:-dd
But thats down to a combination of some seriously tight and twisty up hill down hill mountain roads in the lakes, and a bike with higher than standard SV gearing, that wasn't suited to the roads. :-dd
I have slapped myself on the wrist considerably
yh thanks, i'm aware of having the engine revs far to high and the implications of them being a lot higher than the gearbox!
Maybe i need to fit a slipper clutch, i am a bit lethal!
I'll get the hang of it!! :D
You'll need to, the effects of changing down sharpish at high revs can be quite dramatic on a V-twin.
kwak zzr
23-02-09, 09:19 PM
yo slide that rear!! there is fun to be had :)
yo slide that rear!! there is fun to be had :)
+1 It's not as if you can lock the back wheel with a careless down change like you can lock the back wheel with the brake. It just means the wheel is spinning at less than road speed & it soon sorts itself out with no other input. It's good to learn to know what to expect when you don't quite get it right. Best to practice when you are expecting it rather than wait til it takes you by surprise
+1
First time I took the V twin out I was engine braking too hard & using the back brake far too much, after the back wheel kicked my ass I soon got out of that habit :D
So long as you don't change down at too high rpm the engine braking is sexy.
matt_rehm_hext
24-02-09, 12:19 AM
Clutch in, slight pressure downwards on the lever as you blip the throttle. It will drop into gear nicely. You will get the hang of it.
Re. the sliding the back wheel, you're not forced to dump the clutch you know.
You said it. About how to do it, AND the fact that you don't have to dump the clutch when revs are still high.
yorkie_chris
24-02-09, 12:22 AM
It is the revs being low as you drop the clutch that will snake the back end, as the tyre is then having to cope with engine braking AND trying to spin the motor up to its natural rpm for that road speed.
Maybe i've missed something, but after reading through 7 pages i still don't know what blipping the throttle is. Can someone please explain it? (i have only done my cbt and i have a cg125)
Ruthja2801
24-02-09, 06:58 AM
Thank you guys! Theres a lot of tips theres! And thanks Fizz, That my plan for the weekend, a nice bit of road between two roundabouts! I'll just **** meself when i come to the roundabouts! LOL i'll let you all know how i get on
Magnum blipping is pulling just a quick twist of the throttle! A good old few revs then going back down to normal!
Like when you warm the bike up first thing in the morning after turning it on! Maybe someone can explain better.
Thanks again guys
ThEGr33k
24-02-09, 08:45 AM
Its either blip the throttle or let clutch out slow or Slipper clutch, or a mix. Slipper clutch FTW! :cool:
*Note* aggressive down shifting even with a slipper clutch in the wet will lock the wheel. :(
jimmy__riddle
24-02-09, 09:26 AM
i did notice the need for a blip when i had a go on an rsv, but on the zxr its not really needed, although it has a slipper clutch
Completely wrong.
Dont shift down you're gears when the revs are too low..
That's the point of blipping the throttle.
Just do it all at once.
Anyway you can do it will probably work except for blipping after you have already let out the clutch :oops:
Umm?
Driving along in 3rd 6000rpm, get into traffic, slow down, revs drop to 4000 I'm supposed to shift UP a gear? Sounds like a good way to break the engine to me.
Umm?
Driving along in 3rd 6000rpm, get into traffic, slow down, revs drop to 4000 I'm supposed to shift UP a gear? Sounds like a good way to break the engine to me.
he means: (extreme example)
imagine you're doing 50 mph with the clutch in, so engine is at idle. The gearbox is in 1st. When you let the clutch out, the engine has to get up to about 10,000 rpm to match the road speed. This will most likely lock the wheel unless you do it very slowly. The answer is to use the throttle to get the engine up to 10,000 rpm before you let out the clutch. In this example thats an extremely large "blip".
yorkie_chris
24-02-09, 10:36 AM
will lock the wheel. :(
most likely lock the wheel
No it won't. It will slide the wheel. There is a pretty big difference...
ArtyLady
24-02-09, 10:42 AM
The only time I've ever slid my back wheel on the SV is when Ive done emergency stops in the wet and gone into car mode and slammed my foot down on the back brake!
When I first got my Guzzi - managed to kick the back wheel out loads of times on that but then then they are shaft drive too and I was a beginner!! So I think that must have taught me how to ride pretty smoothly :geek:
I just don't get the big fuss with all this blipping lark and I'm sure it must be confusing for people who are new to biking! surely everyone should just learn to change gear and generally ride smoothly? or am I just a boring old fart? :rolleyes: (I'll probably regret saying that :lol:)
yorkie_chris
24-02-09, 10:46 AM
I tried this on my way home the other day, even at practically tickover rpm and road speed there is still a big nasty crunch without blipping it.
I'm not sure I'd even try that going into a corner and trying to dial up 6000rpm for fear of engine rebuilds...
ArtyLady
24-02-09, 11:48 AM
I tried this on my way home the other day, even at practically tickover rpm and road speed there is still a big nasty crunch without blipping it.
..........
Oh dear!! Ive never had that problem! :confused: are you sure you're not just letting the clutch out really quickly? I'm beginning to wonder if I just naturally feather the throttle to match the revs without thinking about it to get a smooth changedown
No it won't. It will slide the wheel. There is a pretty big difference...
nuts. you lose traction. in the example i gave it would make 1 tenth of naff all difference.
pedantically tho, yes you are correct.
Dont shift down you're gears when the revs are still high..
If you do this, and also release the clutch too fast, you risk locking the back..Originally Posted by Stu http://forums.sv650.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?p=1794548#post1794548)
Completely wrong.
Dont shift down you're gears when the revs are too low..
Umm?
Driving along in 3rd 6000rpm, get into traffic, slow down, revs drop to 4000 I'm supposed to shift UP a gear? Sounds like a good way to break the engine to me.
Ah good point but I meant when your revs are too low for the gear you are choosing and your road speed.
Saoralba was trying to say you can't change down when your revs are too high. But excluding the case when you are already near the rev limiter assuming you wouldn't want to change down then :shock: when you change down the revs will need to be higher for the same road speed therefore your revs will never be too high already before you even blip.
If you take 50mph as an example the revs on an SV would be (v. roughly)
6th - 3000
5th - 4000
4th - 5000
3rd - 7000
2nd - 10000
1st - 14000
So changing from 4th to 3rd you can either blip the throttle to raise the revs from 5000 to 7000 before releasing the clutch.
Or you can smoothly let out the clutch so that the clutch slips until the engine revs increase to 7000.
Or you can slow the bike down to 40 mph before letting the clutch out, but without letting the revs fall below 5000.
Or you can change from 4th to 2nd, dump the clutch & let the back tyre slip until the engine speed is raised up to match the road speed :D & get YC to rebuild your engine :lol:
ThEGr33k
24-02-09, 12:25 PM
The RSV has a slipper clutch too, shouldnt "need" to blip... but then it always helps. :)
No it won't. It will slide the wheel. There is a pretty big difference...
Aye... ok, didnt think there would be someone so gaynal on here... should have known better aye. :p
Try it, it becomes 2nd nature.
I practically blip at every downchange now.
I have one section of road where im JUST at the limiter in 3rd, hard on the brakes, clutch in, revs, cluctch out.
Engine screams its nuts off (still not at the limiter) but its so much more controllable as your in the right gear at the right point of braking.
Then you can concentrate on cranking it over, getting in and out the bend with maximum power on the exit as your smack bang in the right gear, right line, right revs, boooom off you go :D
I want a tank mount for my camera :lol:
petevtwin650
24-02-09, 03:05 PM
+1 It's not as if you can lock the back wheel with a careless down change like you can lock the back wheel with the brake.
You might be interested to read post 39 on the thread I started on the Ducati site. Can you shear 2 bolts when you apply the back brake Stu? :)
I would say that you certainly can lock up the back wheel if you're ham-fisted enough. :p
http://www.ducatisti.co.uk/forum/ducati-chat/28457-blipping-throttle-3.html
Dicky Ticker
24-02-09, 05:10 PM
If you are going to drive machinery on its limits and you have to ask these sort of questions you make me afraid. In practice if you have the revs right you don't even need a clutch. Clutchless gear change at the right revs and the gear slips in or out without crunching so using a clutch should in practice should be even smoother and no throttle blip required unless the synchro in your box is worn
The SV has a lovely little silky smooth box,easy slick changes so whatever your doing you are doing it wrong to have it crunch on gear changes.
Perhaps if you have somebody riding along with you they may be able to help point out where the underlying problem is,be it riding style or a mechanical problem.
Obviously track riding varies from road riding as to the limits pushed.
yorkie_chris
24-02-09, 05:39 PM
It has a lovely gearbox... but there are no synchros in it! :-P
yorkie_chris
24-02-09, 05:42 PM
Oh dear!! Ive never had that problem! :confused: are you sure you're not just letting the clutch out really quickly? I'm beginning to wonder if I just naturally feather the throttle to match the revs without thinking about it to get a smooth changedown
Quite possibly. I do it as a matter of habit.
The crunch I'm on about though is when you actually shift gears, so the clutch is fully disengaged at that point. I think that the blip is needed to unload the gears (clutch drag will put some torque through the box). Sid squid will know!
nuts. you lose traction. in the example i gave it would make 1 tenth of naff all difference.
pedantically tho, yes you are correct.
Pedantic or not, a sliding tyre still gives you gyroscopic forces and is kinda useful. A locked tyre might as well be a lump of wood.
MattCollins
24-02-09, 06:09 PM
Yes, I blip to match engine rpm to road speed for a given gear and to avoid unnecessary loading of the engine and drivetrain or wear on the clutch.
I am not out to make a lot of noise either. That just draws unnecessary attention.
Cheers
SVGrandad
24-02-09, 10:45 PM
It is quite satisfying to do a rapid (non emergency) stop and find that you have automatically blipped down through the gears with virtually no pause in between each change.
SVGrandad
I do it instinctively I think from my car driving days.
Theres many reason for doing it I guess.
Once you get the hang of your revs/engine feel you can easily change up or down the gears without using the clutch at all just as smoothly as with the clutch...either in the car or on a bike.
Dicky Ticker
24-02-09, 11:51 PM
YC I know there are no synchro "gears" as such but the gears are synchronised to run together in symmetry and if this symmetry is out due to a damaged shaft,bearing or damaged teeth on a cog they don't mesh properly which can produce a "crunch" on gearchanges while the box still appears to operate effectively
By increasing the torque and/or speed of the shaft by blipping the throttle during gear changes this may be eleviating the play or mismatch of the gears and making for a smoother change
We know that the gearbox should not crunch during gearchanges and I was trying to explain that there might be a mechanical fault within the gearbox itself providing the clutch is operating correctly
Not having seen or heard the g/box it is hard to tell what the problem actually is,if a g/box problem or some ancillary such as the gear selector pedal rod being bent
Just trying to be helpful in solving the mysterious crunch which accordingly doesn't happen when the revs are increased during gearchange
Sorry for the late reply,clarification,but I had to go out.
You might be interested to read post 39 on the thread I started on the Ducati site. Can you shear 2 bolts when you apply the back brake Stu? :)
I would say that you certainly can lock up the back wheel if you're ham-fisted enough. :p
http://www.ducatisti.co.uk/forum/ducati-chat/28457-blipping-throttle-3.html
So another Ducati breaks and that is relevant to proper bikes how? :)
Runs
;)
MattCollins
25-02-09, 05:11 AM
....
DT, motorcycle gearboxes are never syncronised in any way shape or form. The dogs engage as they go whizzing past their partner and it is by virtue of the design of the engagement dogs plus low mass that they don't normally grind or crunch.... In any case, I dont think that this is the source of the "crunch" to which Chris refers.
With the gears already engaged... There is quite a bit of backlash in a motorcycle drive train combined with a lot of inertia. Without the benefit of either a blip with fast clutch work, or gentler clutch work without, it can make sometimes nasty noises and cause damage (through shock loading) as all of that backlash takes up.
Cheers
Dicky Ticker
25-02-09, 09:30 AM
Better put than I did but that that is what I was trying to say,basic,gears not engaging properly,where as backlash is more of a clunky gearchange as to crunchy
depending on the revs.Maybe my translation of the words differ but does he mean crunch as in grinding of gears when changing or as you say the clunk from backlash.
I always understood it to be two different things---I'll shut up now
yorkie_chris
25-02-09, 02:30 PM
The crunch I'm on about is the clack of the dogs hitting each other hard as you shift. It's not going to do them much good especially as the dog rings can shear on the SV.
I dunno, maybe I can feel it a lot more when you don't get it right as I have rearsets with roller bearings in. You didn't really notice with the stock lever with 1/4" of play in it!
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