Starter problem with Quinten the Chinese motorcycle.

[phil24_7]

I have a problem with Kate's Chinese 125, it wont start!

It's battery went flat a few weeks ago so I put it on the optimate overnight. Put it back in the bike and it fired up straight away. Next morning Kate went to ride it to work, it started up straight away but stalled (probably cuz it was cold) and wouldn't start after that.

I've had a poke round and from what I can make out, the starter solenoid clicks but the starter motor doesn't spin.

I thought the starter might be fubar'd but I've stripped it and everything looks fine and it spins smooth enough.

I have 12.6v from the battery but I also have 12.6v across the starter solenoid, which seems a little odd to me (I may be doing something wrong so don't read too much into this). From what I can gather, the + of the battery goes straight into the starter solenoid (there's a secondary, small positive coming off the battery that supplies all the anciliaries), then from the solenoid straight down to the motor.

Anyone got any ideas or suggestions?

Regards

[Mr Speirs]

Return it from whence it came...the scrapyard.

Honestly, scrap metal values sky rocketed because China was buying it all. Everything that has come out of China is made outta scrap metal. I hate stuff made in China. As you can probably tell.

Sorry I can't help with the starting issue :)

[yorkie_chris]

There isn't necessarily anything wrong with making stuff out of scrap, it's entirely possible to get the metallurgy right.

If the solenoid is clicking but the motor spins when not under load, then suspect the battery.

Try jump it. But does it not have a kickstart?

[phil24_7]

It has no kickstart, solenoid clicks, starter spins by hand. Even with the motor out of the bike it still wont spin using the ignition!

Will bung the battery on charge again and see if that works. If it does then it means the battery is completely fooked!

Cheers YC.

[yorkie_chris]

When you had the starter off the bike, did you earth it?

[phil24_7]

I believe I had it resting against the engine and exhaust but I must admit to not checking if it was earthed properly as I was trying to do a hundred things at once!!

[Kate Moss]

Poor Quinten

[Sosha]

Assume you've tried bypassing the solenoid?

[phil24_7]

Nope. The solenoid is still clicking so I assume it's still working ok.

Will try the battery tomorrow first before I investigate any further.

Cheers all for the suggestions.

Regards

[yorkie_chris]

Not necessarily, the clicking means the coil is energising ... doesn't mean the contacts ain't arced to death or covered in crap.

[phil24_7]

Oh, ok. I'll check it if charging the battery doesn't work.

Cheers

[joshmac]

I have a problem with Kate's Chinese 125, it wont start!

Kate went to ride it to work, it started up straight away but stalled (probably cuz it was cold)
Ahhhhhh, is that what she told you. Yeah must've been cold :p;) hehe

What YC said :lol:

[phil24_7]

Well, the fully charged battery has done bugger all, what's next to check?

Should I remove the starter, make sure it's earthed properly and try it with no load on it?

How would I check to see if the solenoid is fubar'd?

Regards

[phil24_7]

Oi Josh, keep your post whoring to IB!:rolleyes:

[yorkie_chris]

Does it turn over ok? (take plug out, turn the motor over via the back wheel.)

[454697819]

forgive my numptiness but Voltage accross the battery doesnt mean it all. Its the ampage behind the v's that turn the engine, if the current is to low, the solanoied wont kick out and turn the motor, Mines states 12v atm but wont start the bike either, but thats because doesnt have the oomph.

It might be that you have a dead cell in the battery. Did the battery get warm (quite warm) when you charged it? try jumpstarting it, or bump starting it, this should give you an idea?

[vardypeeps]

Well, the fully charged battery has done bugger all, what's next to check?

Should I remove the starter, make sure it's earthed properly and try it with no load on it?

How would I check to see if the solenoid is fubar'd?

Regards

I would maybe look at the connections on the starter relay see if they are messed up.
Just a suggestion like :p

[phil24_7]

Does it turn over ok? (take plug out, turn the motor over via the back wheel.)

Bump starts easily and runs sweet as a nut!

forgive my numptiness but Voltage accross the battery doesnt mean it all. Its the ampage behind the v's that turn the engine, if the current is to low, the solanoied wont kick out and turn the motor, Mines states 12v atm but wont start the bike either, but thats because doesnt have the oomph.

It might be that you have a dead cell in the battery. Did the battery get warm (quite warm) when you charged it? try jumpstarting it, or bump starting it, this should give you an idea?

Battery didn't get even remotely warm whist on the optimate for 2 days.

I would maybe look at the connections on the starter relay see if they are messed up.
Just a suggestion like :p

All connections from the battery right through to the starter motor are in perfect nick, it might be Chinese but it's only an 06 plate and it's been kept covered or in a garage it's whole life. The only rough looking connection is the battery negative which looks a little corroded.

I shall pop out and give this a rub with with a brush or something to see if this helps the situation!

How do I test the solenoid/relay?

Regards

[yorkie_chris]

Short out the battery +ve terminal and the +ve output to the starter motor with something beefy (a spanner or something). See if it will crank then.

[Sosha]

Edit: On a different bike I just connected the big input to the relay, to the big output from the relay - effectively bypassing the switch - if that makes sense... (unbolted them and touched the 2 ends together - ignore the small wire(s) coming from the starter button - they're what makes the Relay close - or in my case not close as it was Fubar)

[phil24_7]

Will check all of this tomorrow after my 10 hour round trip to Wigan to pick up my track bike.

Cheers for all your input peeps, I'll keep you updated.

Regards

[phil24_7]

Well, I finally got around to checking the bike over. I charged it on the optimate (optimate says the battery's fine), push starter and get only a click. I jumped out the starter and get a strange wiring noise but the starter isn't trying to start the bike.

Does this mean I've fubar'd the starter by dismantling it anbd that the solenoid was the original culprit for the breakdown??

Any ideas?

Regards

[plowsie]

Sounds the same as the SR. Have to give that a gentle knock with a hammer and she fires. Let me know how you get on.

[rictus01]

Couple of things spring to mind, quality and durability are somewhat lower generally on these machines, so componant failure isn't uncommon.

How old is it ?

standard check list;

battery/ you say is fine
solenoid/ makes a clicking noise

startermotor given a direct feed from + on battery/ does it turn ?

remove starter from bike, from a battery - (earth the outer casing) & + the terminal on top/ does it turn ?

I'll make a presumtion here it's probably a clone of a denso one (http://www.aihuamotors.com/p_images/thumbs/Two_Brush_Motorcycle_Starter_Motor_-_Yamaha_OEM_MQ1357(1).jpg), so on the startermotor (removed from the bike) two bolts will run the length of it (internally) undo these, take off the end cap, then you'll be able to extract the central part (armature (http://www.sunautoelektrik.com/pcat-gifs/products-small/armatures1.jpg)), looking down the inside of the casing you'll see a round or half round small circuit board with the brushes attached, you should be able to seperate the main body from the other end cap with the circuit board in now, three things to check here 1. check the brushes are in good condition, 2. the contacts at the base of the armature are also good, 3. the electrical contact from the outside terminal(+ postive) is isolated from the body of the startermotor (undo the 10mm nut on the outside terminal, the bolt bit should go threw an isolator of some kind, either rubber or plastic, stopping it touching the main body (which is obviously the - (earth)), and to a wire or braid which in turn leads to the circuit board, if either the isolator or wire/braid is broken it won't work, it's possible to re solder the wire/braid, and should it be the isolator a piece of innertube rubber cut to shape will do the job.

HTH

Edit: found this (http://www.bike2hike.co.uk/ccmowners/starter_motor_repair.htm) which might help.

Cheers Mark.

[Professor]

Sounds the same as the SR. Have to give that a gentle knock with a hammer and she fires. Let me know how you get on.

I used to own a very old Ford Escort and the only way to get starter
turning was to give it a knock. My mechanic provided me with a
strange device :shock: for this purpose: a weight attached to a stick by
spring. Every time I left work I had to ask someone to poke the
starter with this weight while I was turning the ignition key.

[phil24_7]

Cheers all.

As mentioned, the starter has been stripped and check and looks mint inside (took me ten mins to strip and 2 hours to put back together again!), the solenoid clicks but doesn't make the starter whir, if you short the solenoid the starter whirs but doesn't turn the engine over.

This doesn't seem to narrow it down for me!

Either the battery deasn't have enough power, despite the optimate telling me otherwise, the solenoid has given up, the starter is fubar'd or a combination of the above.

Will have to investigate further tomorrow.

Regards

[kurtis.randle]

please post pics off your bike btbh some are worth just putting in the tip .

[phil24_7]

It's an 06 plate and it's in very good nick with only 2200km on the clock!

[phil24_7]

Here's a pic:

http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=102019&highlight=kate+125&page=6

Post #54.

Regards

[Sosha]

My brother once reassambled a starter motor backwards.... so it spun the wrong way & just whizzed round....

[phil24_7]

Oh please don't say that cuz mine just makes a whirring sound!!!

[joshmac]

That's why yours just makes a whirring sound ;)

[phil24_7]

Pr1ck!! :-D

[joshmac]

Why thankyou James :razz:
I'll take it as a compliment

[Sosha]

Didn't do any damage. Wasn't a big deal. Can't remember any details without it infront of me.

Could still be battery. 400 just goes "Whiz - CLANK" if the battery's low

I'd try another before owt else....you must have fair number kicking around.


Edit: Didn't get plus & minus confused when you bypassed relay? Depending on the circuit that could also theoretically make it run backwards.......


Edit: Disclaimer - I know nothing.

[yorkie_chris]

Depends if it's a sprag clutch type starter or not.

[phil24_7]

:confused:

[yorkie_chris]

Someone mentioned a "bang" when batterys low... if it's the sort of starter that fires a gear at a flywheel then they do make a lot of banging and clanging... never mind...

[Sosha]

Someone mentioned a "bang" when batterys low... if it's the sort of starter that fires a gear at a flywheel then they do make a lot of banging and clanging... never mind...

That was me - and I said Clank. not Bang - but it's nice to know why anyway ;)

Moving swiflty on.....

[yorkie_chris]

A clanks as good as a bang to a deaf horse... something something jedi. ... errr