Complete Electrical Failure

[kbh]

I don't seem to be having a lot of luck recently.....

I posted a thread up recently as my instuments had a mind of there own and worked only randomly....this has now been resolved thanks to Maclovins advice and i put a new set of clocks on (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=126913).

Took the bike out the next day for a ride, did about 15miles then driving through a high street suddenly the bike went dead and stalled - no electrics, lights, nothing and wouldn't start again and i was having to paddle the bike into a side road. It had a datatool alarm on it and that was quite happily giving me random chrips and being yellow it was sounding like a canary and was making funny noises when the ignition was off and on even though i had no electrics and it would arm/disarm. 15mins later after me cooling off went back to the bike and the alarm disarmed and all electrics came back and the bike started on the button, so off i went.....1/2mile down the road it did the same thing again.totally stuck and realy cheesed off by this point i managed to get the bike recovered home from a random white van man (very helpful) for the price of his diesel. So i decided to remove the alarm that afternoon as i thought this was causing the problems. Bike started fine again after this.
The following day i thought i'd try the bike on a run out again. 20mins in it did the same thing, total failure. no electrics, lights and not any noise from the starter button - totally dead. Walked away and came back 15mins later again, turned the key - all lights working and bike fired up again on the button no problems and i managed to get home (although i was only 5mins away this time). Pulled up switched the bike off, then out of interest i turned the ignition on again - guess what - eveything was completely dead. Went back out again 1/2 later and eveything worked as it should and it started fine on the button.

This did happen one i think before i changed the clocks but i didn't really think much of it but now seems to becoming more of a problem.

Now obviosuly all the fuses are ok as everything still works as it should when it is running and i have checked/swapped thee fuses on the starter relay and they are fine and contacts are not corroded up there. I know the earth on the bike is good as i had a friend check with his multimeter when i was trying to find out the fault with the clocks.

Does any one have any suggestions as to what could be wrong? is the reg/rec on it's way out? I don't have a meter to hand and wouldn't know how to use one as electrics are not my strong point and friend who has got one lives about an 1hr away so he can't just pop over.

Cheers - KB

[dizzyblonde]

I seem to recall Vardypeeps had a problem similar. Waggle the wiring under the tail light. He only found that out when we'd been on a rideout, and we found the poor lad pushing his SV up a steep hill on the A65. I thought it may have been a fuse, and asked for his tool kit....only by chance he knocked the wiring under the tailpod and all his electrics came back on.

worth a shot? could be a loose terminal.

[dizzyblonde]

oh yeah what bike is it?

[kbh]

Sorry...might help if i told you the bike wouldn't it! - 2000 Curvy.

Funny enough i did double check all the connections at the back when i removed the alarm as it took the feed into the indicators there and with my big hands in small places it's normally bound to have knocked something but it still did it before i removed the alarm.

[dizzyblonde]

righto, is it faired?. I shall explain. I've had an intermittent fuse blower on one of mine, its bloody taken an age to find it.
We've checked the loom back to front a zillion times over!
But yesterday we disturbed something that stopped the rev counter working. As we waggled the loom round the headlights, it became clear the thing that was causing it, was a loose terminal on the red wire in the white connector on the left fairing side. We took both sides out and attched then directly to each other, and that solved that. After cleaning off the green fur, and nipping up the terminal, they were put back in the plastic connector.
Worth a shot?

edit, just looked in your profile...tiz the curse of the yellow curvy...lol

[kbh]

Yep - Bikini
I could try that tomorrow. Although none of my fuses have blown and i literally lose everything - lights front and back, indicators, horn, brake light, neutral & oil light, no backlights, no starter - Go back 20mins later and everything is ok again till 5mins down the road. It only seems to be happening after i have been out riding on the bike for a shortwhile?!
He was lucky for you to find him pushing it, i know if it was was me i would have ended up very frustrated and just left the bike there and wouldn't even have contemplated the hill!

[dizzyblonde]

well when we found this red wire jobby on mine yesterday, everything was bouncing on and off. At first everything seemed like there were nowt wrong, but just gently pulling the red wire at the back of the connector block, everything went on and off.
Im Indoors couldn;t believe he'd missed it, he must have looked at that side a gazillion times.
Is worth checking all your connectors for loose terminals

Think about it, your riding down the road and everything is vibrating about, it'll make it intermittent with the right pothole to run over!

[kbh]

OK Cheers.I'll have to get out there tomorrow and check it. Seems like there is always problems with the wires in those connections up there.

[Baph]

Similar issues with mine yesterday (only mine is a pointy).

Immediately identified mine as the main battery positive terminal being loose.

[vardypeeps]

Yo Man.
I bet it's the very same problem that I have been having.
On the right hand side take off the triangular plastic cover and there is your starter relay with a main fuse and a main connection going into the green box.
It you wiggle these wires I'm guessing that everything will come back on when you find the sweet spot.

To fix this I have taped the wires to the frame so that the loose connection is seating correctly and I'v not had a problem since.

Best thing to do to see if it's that, is turn your ignition on and wiggle the wire/hold it in certain positions to see if the lights etc come on.

Hope this helps.
I think when I broke down and moved the tail piece wires it nudged the starter relay connection which made it fire up again.

[vardypeeps]

I had an intersting moment riding around a fast corner for the bike to cut out and someone riding behind me nearly ran into me!

[kbh]

right..tried the connections down the sides of the headstock and eveything is tight there. I did actually try the wires on the starter relay when it went as the 12v fused feed for the alarm was tapped into this and i still had the side cover off from when i stripped the bike to remove the alarm. so these contacts are ok there i think.
It only seems to happen once the bike has warmed up, never after it's been sitting for a while?
Any 1 any other suggestions?

[dizzyblonde]

Have you had a look at the sidestand switch. That stops the motor when its in gear. Could it possibly be loose or damaged and playing games with you while your riding. Its a common fault.

[vardypeeps]

Faulty Alarm?

[Grinch]

When you say cut out... did you loose everything?

[kbh]

Thanks Dizz...no i havn't tried the side stand switch yet, found a post on the by-pass for it but will probably have to wait to try it given that requires some re-wiring it will have to be my mate who will need to do it for me and he ain't around for a week or so.
Alarm was removed on Saturday after after i got a lift from friendly white van man - The alarm was removed because i thought it was this that was stopping it.

When i say everything....i mean everything...it was almost like someone had come along and knicked the battery while i was riding...bike stalls and all electrics go and if i leave the bike exactly the way it was when it stalls, walk back to it 20mins laters, don't touch anything, just turn the igntion key...eveything works perfect again and she starts on the button - Just seems to die like this after she's warmed up, never from starting cold in the mornings or as i just put, go back 20mins later and eveything is fine but it will then do the same maybe 30seconds later or it could be 3miles further down the road.

[Grinch]

Sound like a starter relay breaking down to me, replace it.

[kbh]

Looks like Grinch was on the button with it being the starter relay.....
She broke down again last night . I thought maybe i would try a jump start with some leads (which didn't work) and after for some reason i thought i would just check the fuses to make sure nothing blew, they were all ok. Then i thought i'd make sure the main 30a fuse hadn't gone either and i removed it and it was fine and i was pushed it back in the lights came back on. It seems the fuse doesn't quite stay in place in one corner - only by a couple of mm so while it looks as though it is in there ok, which it is, but over time it slowly pushes itself out ever so slightly out on one edge, just enough to break contact/give intermiitent power. So i have now taped it in with electricl tape and seems to have cured it and drrove all the way home like a dream.

Thanks guys for all your help & suggestions on this one - Much appreciated.

[Paul_uk]

i have the exact same problem, only started two days ago and its been driving me absolutely insane. i could not have described my problem any better than you did. i am hoping it is the same simple remedy for me also! i just couldn't fathom why it would start fine, then 2 miles down the road, sometimes 200 yards down the road i would have a complete and total electrical failure. sometimes 2 mins after i'd get electrics back, sometimes 2 hours, it really was just random. i'm crossing everything its this simple fix for me too :)

just as an add, i have a meta alarm/immobiliser and thought it might be this and was contemplating trying to remove today, perhaps i'll just hold off on that removal as it looks stupidly complicated (which i guess is what its meant to do to deter thieves)

[hardhat_harry]

You can also have a starter soleniod that has a dodgy connection between the battery cable and main fuse where it has rusted away aswell as the fuse blades being crudded up

[Paul_uk]

thanks for the pointer Harry. just got all plastics seat, tank up etc and going through all wiring/connections etc. i suspect the fault is something to do with the main fuse intermittently losing connection, or definitely as you say around the starter solenoid/ relay etc.. i hope it is anyway. going to clean up all connections etc... at the moment, everything is fine but i KNOW as soon as i go out, go for a ride and turn it off the bleeder will say ' ha, thought you'd fixed me but you haven't, push me home fool'

[Paul_uk]

sadly... it didn't solve the fault. rode to my sisters with no problem. then, as i'm about to leave, same thing. no electrics... really at a loss now!

[Geodude]

Have you checked for chaffing on the loom around where the seat bolts on? What model bike?

[muzikill]

i had the same sort of issue ages ago i found part of the alarm wiring loom back to the alarm had shorted out on the rear subframe. The vibration on a badly finished and rough edge of the frame had worked through one of the alarm cables. It was hard to spot as it was the underside of the loom that was the location of the fault.

[Paul_uk]

i've checked the wiring thoroughly and as far as i can see, there are no breaks, all the wiring and connectors seem ok. guess i am going to have to bite the bullet and get an auto electrician to diagnose and correct the problem. really is soul destroying to have such an intermittent fault on a bike i've owned less than a week. ;/

[Shawthing]

You aint said the model and year of bike!

The old chestnut that keeps popping up on pointies is the green connector between ignitionbarrel and loom. behind headstock and below the airbox. internal terminals becoming resistive and become intermittent / open circuit . have you checked internals of this connector?

[Paul_uk]

my apologies, its a '99 Sv650s, no longer the flying banana but now dubbed the yellow peril!!

[Geodude]

Probably a daft question but how good is the connection from leads to battery? Had a loose neg once and it caused intermittent running probs.

[Paul_uk]

trust me, no question is daft when it comes to this. first thing i did was take off the leads, give them and the battery terminals a good scrub, socketed them back down etc. after reading this thread, i was totally convinced it was the main fuse possibly not seating corrrectly and perhaps on warming up dislodging, on cooling down perhaps re connecting but it seems not so....

[Geodude]

You might get a bit more help once yorkie_chris gets back from the ar. or you could try a pm to spannerman or sidsquid for ideas etc. Yc talked me through my electrical gremlin.

[Paul_uk]

i've appreciated all the help i've had so far. been a lurker, just used the forums as a guest etc... really really helpful community :) can anyone recommend an electrical specialist in London or the South East?

[Geodude]

Spanner man on here has his own motorcycle repair business in Surrey area and a good few orgers from down there use him. Heres his garage http://www.stewarts-motorcycles.co.uk/default.html You might get more replies from clever bods on here yet though.

[Paul_uk]

I wonder... i had none of these problems up until i did the r6 throttle tube mod on Wednesday night. since then it has had this fault. is it possible the kill switch could be shorting out all electrics? then randomly coming back to life on whenever it feels like it? its late now so tomorrow i'll dismantle the housing and investigate. just wondering if it could knock out all electrics :/

[Paul_uk]

joy of joys!!!

after days of tinkering, cleaning wires, checking connectors it did in fact turn out to be a failed meta alarm/immobiliser.

haven't got round to actually removing the damn thing but at least have found the source of the problem.

its amazing how much i've learned about bike electrics the last few days with help from the forums and stuff!!

[Geodude]

Glad you got it figured out bud :D