Will I get nicked for a non-legal can? Part Deux

[-Ralph-]

Question related to this....

Is it legal to have your baffle out if your bike is still within the legal noise limit (75-80db or so I think but at what revs?). I'm sure some bikes and cars are just as loud out of the crate as an SV with the baffle out.

If so should coppers really be walking around giving tickets at bike meets for a bike with a baffle out when they haven't even heard it running? Even if they have heard it running, unless they have a db meter handy, shouldn't they send you to an MOT station with a rectification notice?

Even if the SV easily busts the noise limit, should a copper be writing a ticket without any form of measurement? They can't write a speeding ticket on the basis that they think you were going faster than the limit, they have to have made some measurement.

I'm not asking what the police do, I'm asking what they SHOULD be doing...

Just because you got a ticket for something, that doesn't make it the law, I'm sure there have been plenty fixed penalty tickets written that wouldn't stand up in court.

[jimmy__riddle]

i didnt think it was a case of baffle in/out, i thought it was down to the police if they deemed it too loud or not regardless.

A capri i used to own was so loud it used to set off car alarms when i drove past, never had any MOT/plod issues with that!

[gettin2dizzy]

A policeman is an 'expert' and as such his judgment is deemed worthy evidence.

[Dicky Ticker]

A police man can "THINK" it is to loud but unless he has db meter I fail to see how he can prosecute you and not all cans have markings. Obviously if it is a race can and marked up "Not For Road Use" that is a different matter
Even using the db meter it has to be with the engine at certain revs and in a controlled environment at a specific distance,not the roadside.
Like all police equipment it has to be Type Approved by the Home Office and calibrated

As a side comment I asked the Traffic Inspector if they are carried and he said
"We have two but nobody seems to know where the are"

[Baph]

A policeman is an 'expert' and as such his judgment is deemed worthy evidence.

When verified by another officer.

A mate of mine was pulled on his de-baffled Firestorm a while back, the conversation went like this:

Officer: "That exhaust is rediculously loud isn't it?"
Biker: "Yes, yes it is. :D"

He got a ticket, for the exhaust, and the speeding. He admitted it, so he got a ticket.

What they should/shouldn't do, well, I'll leave a .Org officer to answer that...

[AndyW]

When verified by another officer.
What they should/shouldn't do,

They shouldn't say " didn't seem that loud to me, maybe if you put your ear next to it while I rev up?"

[madness]

They can't write a speeding ticket on the basis that they think you were going faster than the limit, they have to have made some measurement.

I always understood that to issue a speeding ticket, two independant methods of speed neasurement are required. Normally this is a policemans opinion and a speed gun/police car speedometer. But it can also be two policemen walking down the pavement as you speed past. If they both are of the opinion you were speeding, then a ticket can be issued.

[Luckypants]

But it can also be two policemen walking down the pavement as you speed past. If they both are of the opinion you were speeding, then a ticket can be issued.

Which is completely wrong! Grrr!!! This police man's word is golden and he is an 'expert' in everything is ********.

To issue a any fixed penalty there should be incontrovertible proof of wrongdoing such as the speed gun and the DB meter. The 'because I say so and am a policeman' rule is complete bull****.

[madness]

I stand corrected! But I will still endeavour not to speed past two bobbies on the beat!

[hob]

Question related to this....

Is it legal to have your baffle out if your bike is still within the legal noise limit (75-80db or so I think but at what revs?).

Wow that's low!

My car pulled something like 105db without ALS/launch control enabled :)

[jimmy__riddle]

I stand corrected! But I will still endeavour not to speed past two bobbies on the beat!

it's ok, they wont be going round in pairs anymore! ;)

[madness]

Does anyone actually know what the legal noise limit is on a bike or car? Bearing in mind that in the workplace it is mandatory to wear ear protection at 85dB

[Dicky Ticker]

Modern cars 79dB and I think about the same for bikes

[haggis]

All this lifted from the DoT website......




Annex E: The MCI Guide to Moped and Motorcycle Exhaust System Markings
Aim

The aim of this guide is to assist police officers identify illegal exhaust systems with a view to rectification or prosecution.

Subjective Identification

The noise limits imposed on new motorcycles have been very stringent for many years. Certainly any motorcycle fitted with an efficient original equipment (OE) or replacement exhaust system (RESS) is most unlikely to cause offence or be illegal. This means that if a motorcycle "sounds noisy", its exhaust system is probably illegal and is worth inspecting for the appropriate markings.

Illegal Exhaust Systems

These generally fall into two categories; the poorly maintained, and more commonly, the "race or custom system". The later are in widespread use and are particularly popular among the riders of "race replica" and "custom or "chopper" style machines. Race and illegal custom silencers should bear the marking "not for highway use" or similar wording, however this may have been erased or removed. It is therefore highly probable that the exhaust system of a "noisy bike" will either be unmarked or have "not for highway use" marked on it. Either way these are evidence of an offence.

Markings and their Locations

These are required to be "indelible and clearly legible, even when fitted to the vehicle" (C&U and 92/61 Annex V). A popular practice among illegal RESS manufacturers is either to use chrome foil stickers or to "hide" the markings on the inward face of the silencer or in another inconvenient location.


NOISE LIMITS
Pre 1 Apr 83:
- No limit.

1 Apr 83/31 Mar 91:
Up to 80cc - 79dB
81-125cc - 81dB
126-350cc - 84dB
351-500cc - 86dB
Over 500cc - 87dB

1 Apr 91 onwards:
Up to 80cc - 78dB
81-175cc - 80dB
Over 175 - 83dB


................... or to cut a long story short
83dB for SV's.
That's criminally quiet! :p

However, MoT stations don't have dB meters so that is when the 'testers discretion' statement crops up.

I couldn't find any similar info relating to car noise limits.
From what I've read elsewhere it seems that cars must not have an exhaust that is 'notably louder' than the OE fitted one. :(

[gettin2dizzy]

NOISE LIMITS
Pre 1 Apr 83:
- No limit.
Ha! I *so* hope that's true :smt081



I'm going shopping.... ;)

[skeetly]

really?!
So er my 1975 400 four doesnt need a silencer..
Oh..my ....god.
Anyone know where I can get a piece of plain chromed 2" pipe?

[muffles]

I stand corrected! But I will still endeavour not to speed past two bobbies on the beat!

I thought he was saying he disagreed with it, rather than it was wrong...

I thought that a policeman's opinion is one piece of evidence, and it is usually used to back up another form of measurement. I'm unsure if another policeman can be used as the primary piece of evidence, but I wouldn't bet against it.

Re: the stuff about noise limits & aftermarket exhausts not allowed to be louder than OE...that comes under construction and use regulations I believe. Remember MOT rules differ, and you can get a situation where a copper does you for a loud exhaust, you take your rectification notice and get the exhaust - with no changes - stamped by an MOT guy, go back out on your way, get pulled & given a rectification notice, etc - repeated ad infinitum.

[BigFootIsBlurry]

Ha! I *so* hope that's true :smt081



I'm going shopping.... ;)

I'm pretty sure its true, I work with a guy whos got an old bike (no idea what) with no silencer, just an open pipe. Its LOUD :smt038

[kwak zzr]

Officer: "That exhaust is rediculously loud isn't it?"
Biker: "Yes, yes it is. :D"



the reply should have been "WHAT?" "SORRY I CANT HEAR YOU"