company being unreasonable, us and them

[Wideboy]

bit of a rant

there is a big "us and them" thing going on at work, always has been but the past year it has got ridiculous

this is when it started:

i've been working there 3 years now, there is only 5 of us joiners at our firm, we are the first ones there and unlock everything but we are not allowed to park on company property and have to park on the road :confused:, now this wasn't a problem for me as i had a bike and no car so me and one of the other blokes who rode found a piece of waste land around the back of the work shop to stick our bikes, i got a car so stopped taking the bike, our picnic area that we made for lunch was ripped up last year so the two fat cats could park there flashy motors right out front, last summer the 2nd in command big cheese banned us from parking our bikes on company property so we had to park on the road :confused:.

1. just got a call from one of my mate i work with asking how i was doing and to tell me some news, the road where we park has has double yellows down it and we are still being refused parking in the car park :confused:

2. up until about a year ago i used to work all the hours that where going, working away and when i wasn't working i was knackered and asleep, this resulted partly in loosing my lady friend and basically having no life, so i put a stop to it and only did my flat 40 hours........ have just been told i have to started working 50 hour weeks and start working away again :confused:

3. i have a manager that knows absolutely sweet f all about joinery, he actually manages to feck up every job in some way and doesn't take the wrap for it, all the big wheels know this and yet nothing is done about it :confused:

4. we are not included in any office goings on (raffles, partys ect), at Christmas i was actually moaned at by one of the office staff who organised it for not entering the Christmas raffle.......... a raffle that i had no idea was happening :confused:, i lost my cool and explained to her why i hadn't:rolleyes:

5. numerouse times i have been stichted up, last time me and antoher bloke were fitting 3 kitchens we had made in bournemouth and was told to start them them ASAP, we were given the drawings and sent on our way, fitted them, manager came to inspect, suprise suprise the drawings he had were a different revision to the ones we had and there for completly different, when we went to get our drawings to back us up, suprise suprise they had vanished...... now this happens a hell of a lot its got to the point where we actually hide our copies of drawings :confused:

6. none of the new rules ect that have been dreamt up apply to office staff, just us 5 joiners :confused:

there are loads and loads of little petty things that go on that i cant even be bothered to get into e.g. they even steal our milk :rolleyes:

now is it just me, or are they being complete unreasonable ar$e holes?

[hovis]

milk stealing should be punishable by death

"hang the milk stealers"

[husky03]

time to find a new place of employment mate-or go out on your own-people will always pay for quality workmanship

[Dappa D]

time to find a new place of employment mate-or go out on your own-people will always pay for quality workmanship

+1 WB they sound like right bunch of ****s.......wanna price me up a kitchen on the side?

[Scoobs]

time to find a new place of employment mate-or go out on your own-people will always pay for quality workmanship

Agree. We all spend a considerable amount of time at work. Most people would rather not be at work, but if we have to do it let's at least make it bearable.

[RichT]

What's the reasoning behind parking onsite? Seems a little crazy to me. And perhaps the 5 of you should elect a spokesperson, put all this down and approach a reasonable person (HR if poss) and discuss these absurd "rules"....

Or collectively tell 'em where to stick it and set-up a business between the 5 of you.

[Kinvig]

dude, seriously if you don't like it and it's getting you down QUIT!!!!!!

If they realised how unhappy you are and they tried to rectify things then:

a) It would likely be too little, too late
b) You would still have a lot of ingrained politcal stuff going on that would still be perculating in the background.

Your health & private life is more important.

Work to live not vice versa.

Yeah, there's an ickle recession on, but people are still hiring - either take a chance or make a proper change and find another career!

Guaranteed* it'll be the best move you ever make!!!!












*Not a guarantee

[Swin]

Doesn't sound like the best work environment to me. Fair enough, no-one really wants to go to work, but you shouldn't expect to be treated this way at all.

As to the milk stealers, hawk up a nice greeny and flob it in the carton - just make sure you mark up the carton you gob into :D

[chompy]

exactly hat my boss was like mate, loads of petty things, and told me i could park the bike on site, so i told him that he cant park his audi tt on site and then put my bike where i normally did right next to a fence where no one parks. he thought i was a cocky **** but didnt ask me to move it again.

sounds like a fairy small firm i may be wrong, but they are the worst firms litte man sydrome :D

[chompy]

Doesn't sound like the best work environment to me. Fair enough, no-one really wants to go to work, but you shouldn't expect to be treated this way at all.

As to the milk stealers, hawk up a nice greeny and flob it in the carton - just make sure you mark up the carton you gob into :D

haha thats brilliant i should have done that when i was working :D

[gruntygiggles]

Does it say in your conract that joiners are not allowed to park on company property? If it doesn, nothing you can do. If it doesn't, then they are effectively showing prejudice against you, as a group and you cna probably have them for that, but I doubt it's worth the hassle.

Why are they now asking you to work 50 hours a week?
Under 18's can only be made to work 40 hours a week. Over 18's cannot be forced to work more than 48 hours a week. It can be done over a 17 week period to average 48 hours a week, but cannot exceed 48 hours a week every week for that period.
Also, you can agree with your employer to work longer than 48 hours a week, but you, the worker have to sign to agree to this and cannot be punished in any way if you do not agree to this. You can also opt out of an agreement to work additional hours by giving 7 days notice in writing.

Are you members of a trade workers union? If not, you should be....they'll be able to do a lot for you.

[gruntygiggles]

Also......it is true, people are still hiring, the recruitment industry is moving again and you should try and move. If you don't want to do that, start your own business up as a sole trader on the side (PM me if you need advice) and build up a good client base and word of mouth. Then put up with your employers for 6 months to a year, knowing that you can leave soon and work for yourself.

It is hard, but well worth it and far better than dealing with that kind of work life. Most say life is too short to deal with that cr4p.....I say life is too long.......you're already fed up so don't waste your time being unhappy. Some people stay in jobs they hate for their whole working life and it's such a waste!

Good luck!

[Rai86]

Well i made you an offer for work ;-)

I think you should jump ship matey, sounds like its a poorly run business, and poorly run businesses are not guna do will in the coming months/ years

[Wideboy]

problem is no one i work with has a back bone, me and the other apprentice (still serving my time but im out in 2'ish months) are the only ones that stand and and be herd, everyone else just bends over and takes it

[Baph]

Sounds to me like it's a sinking ship. Rats tend to jump long before the boat goes under...

I suggest you do the same.

I've been in a similar position, and it was THE best feeling in the world riding away from the office, on a lovely sunny day, after telling the company chairman where he can stick the job & why. :D

[Kinvig]

problem is no one i work with has a back bone, me and the other apprentice (still serving my time but im out in 2'ish months) are the only ones that stand and and be herd, everyone else just bends over and takes it

Take some positives from this - you've seen how this company is like and you know what to avoid for the future. If you're still an apprentice, then at the very least working at this company has, hopefully, given you some valuable knowledge!

Remember: No-one's indispensbile, work don't owe you a living. The company will survive (or fail) without your contribution. At the end of the day it's no biggie. So DON'T SWEAT IT.

Move along, move along.

[Swin]

Sounds to me like it's a sinking ship. Rats tend to jump long before the boat goes under...

I suggest you do the same.

I've been in a similar position, and it was THE best feeling in the world riding away from the office, on a lovely sunny day, after telling the company chairman where he can stick the job & why. :D


lol - I hope you left the chairman a process diagram showing him how and where to stick it :smt002

[Baph]

lol - I hope you left the chairman a process diagram showing him how and where to stick it :smt002

No, but I did detail the process by which he would remain paying me for a couple of months after my departure as severance pay.

I then took approx 5 months off over summer, and spent the entire summer holidays with my kids. :cool: Then had to look for work & ended up where I am now. :( :lol:

Take no prisoners in negotiations!

[Thingus]

Place i used to work at had a pretty bad record with discrimination against warehouse staff compared to office staff aswell but i guess that's how it works? Yours sounds quite bad though.

[gruntygiggles]

Place i used to work at had a pretty bad record with discrimination against warehouse staff compared to office staff aswell but i guess that's how it works? Yours sounds quite bad though.

It's how it works until something gets done. My dad went from a lengthy career as a senior director in a blue chip company to spending a few years one a few boards after being made redundant. A few years back he decided to get a part time job order picking at Wilkinsons warehouse so he could use the wages to pay his green fees and Wed & Sat nights up the golf club rather than use his savings or pension.

He saw a dsigraceful amount of discrimination in the workforce and the warehouse staff were treated like cattle, while office staff had ever privilage going!

Having the experience he did, being a great negotiator and mediator, he became the voice of teh warehouse staff and over a few months, got the problems ironed out.

A company can only get away with treating staff badly if the staff keep allowing them to. It's hard to do, but the law is on your side!

[Thingus]

Aye sounds pretty typical.
I worked in the office, then came back to help in the warehouse for a while, and knowing the quite obvious differences i tried to stand up for people and it kinda worked, although i think they just stopped slagging them off so much, but kept up the ********-ness ^.^
I saw that people who haven't been in that office environment any of their working lives don't really know any different and just put up with it... that's probably why you might find yourself being the only voice :<

[gruntygiggles]

Aye sounds pretty typical.
I worked in the office, then came back to help in the warehouse for a while, and knowing the quite obvious differences i tried to stand up for people and it kinda worked, although i think they just stopped slagging them off so much, but kept up the ********-ness ^.^
I saw that people who haven't been in that office environment any of their working lives don't really know any different and just put up with it... that's probably why you might find yourself being the only voice :<

Yep, and very few companies will make employees fully aware of their rights. I have always lived by the rule that if you're going to complain about something, you also need to be willing to do something to change things. If you're not willing to do that, then put up and shut up!

I used to work with a lot of Portugese hotel staff and they didn't have a clue of their rights, by the time I had finished with them I think the management thought they were in the middle of a mutiny!

[Thingus]

Wow, you go ^.^

[appollo1]

Why not just park in the car park and when you are confronted by your boss get him to show you where it is written that you are not allowed to park there.

Also I would say that if anyone is going to approach their boss to highlight a problem then provide a solution at the same time. For instance if you have to park on a public road and you only spend a short amount of time in the office then suggest that you be allowed to park in a visitors slot.

The milk getting used is theft so make sure you have your name on it (sounds petty but it can work) and put up a sign asking others to provide their own or replace what they take. If it keeps happening then you are a joiner so put a lock on the fridge and you keep the key!!!

[vardypeeps]

bit of a rant

there is a big "us and them" thing going on at work, always has been but the past year it has got ridiculous

this is when it started:

i've been working there 3 years now, there is only 5 of us joiners at our firm, we are the first ones there and unlock everything but we are not allowed to park on company property and have to park on the road :confused:, now this wasn't a problem for me as i had a bike and no car so me and one of the other blokes who rode found a piece of waste land around the back of the work shop to stick our bikes, i got a car so stopped taking the bike, our picnic area that we made for lunch was ripped up last year so the two fat cats could park there flashy motors right out front, last summer the 2nd in command big cheese banned us from parking our bikes on company property so we had to park on the road :confused:.

1. just got a call from one of my mate i work with asking how i was doing and to tell me some news, the road where we park has has double yellows down it and we are still being refused parking in the car park :confused:

2. up until about a year ago i used to work all the hours that where going, working away and when i wasn't working i was knackered and asleep, this resulted partly in loosing my lady friend and basically having no life, so i put a stop to it and only did my flat 40 hours........ have just been told i have to started working 50 hour weeks and start working away again :confused:

3. i have a manager that knows absolutely sweet f all about joinery, he actually manages to feck up every job in some way and doesn't take the wrap for it, all the big wheels know this and yet nothing is done about it :confused:

4. we are not included in any office goings on (raffles, partys ect), at Christmas i was actually moaned at by one of the office staff who organised it for not entering the Christmas raffle.......... a raffle that i had no idea was happening :confused:, i lost my cool and explained to her why i hadn't:rolleyes:

5. numerouse times i have been stichted up, last time me and antoher bloke were fitting 3 kitchens we had made in bournemouth and was told to start them them ASAP, we were given the drawings and sent on our way, fitted them, manager came to inspect, suprise suprise the drawings he had were a different revision to the ones we had and there for completly different, when we went to get our drawings to back us up, suprise suprise they had vanished...... now this happens a hell of a lot its got to the point where we actually hide our copies of drawings :confused:

6. none of the new rules ect that have been dreamt up apply to office staff, just us 5 joiners :confused:

there are loads and loads of little petty things that go on that i cant even be bothered to get into e.g. they even steal our milk :rolleyes:

now is it just me, or are they being complete unreasonable ar$e holes?

Quit mate. Sounds like they don't diserve your hard work!
If you can take some of your work mates with you too so that they struggle.

Obviously only quit if you know you can find another job at the moment.
Credit Crunch and all that.

[Odin]

+1 with everything gruntygiggles has said.
You only have 1 life so its not worth the hassle if your work is giving you that much stress. I can not beleive your comments on incorrect versions of the drawings given to you. Is the company ISO 9001? If it says it is and is not tracking drawings correctly then they could easily loose that status.

All the 'good' suggestions that I could give would give you huge Joy........but also 5 to 15 years.

[Sudoxe]

Your a joiner. Build a coffin in the workshop and write the directors names on it. Leave it in the corner of the workshop, and use it to store tools.

[timwilky]

Firstly is there a shortage of parking facilities at your work site?

I work for a large international company and am aware of one of our sites where all but senior management with onsite parking permission had to use the NCP pay&display across the road.

secondly, as for parking bikes. Many companies don't like them by the front door. Of course that's where you want them, so you can keep an eye on them, they are secure etc. But they look untidy, you want to impress potential visitors not force them to navigate past cars, bikes etc before they even get into the building.

The fact the road outside your site has been double yellowed is nothing to do with your company. They are being unfair if there is space and they say workshop staff cannot park on site, but if they are restricting parking to named individual that is their prerogative.

Times are hard, many a joiner is currently unemployed. I would suggest you step back, take a deep breath and think before you shoot your mouth off. 48/50 hour weeks are the norm for a lot of people,.

I see no reason why your boss must be a joiner. He must firstly be a manager and not just by title.

As for inclusion, talk to your manager and then to others in the company. Maybe information is passed down a cascade distribution system that is flawed. Are these new rules officially published and explicit. Or is it somebodies word of mouth?


I have worked for a smallish company ~80 staff, where there was a perceived us and them culture. Production staff definitely thought that some of us had unwarranted perks, until it was pointed out that some of us were currently working in excess of 100 hours/week trying to win a contract that would keep all in work. Of course the company knew who was doing this, we were the ones that would be "off again" when in fact we were away on client sites etc.

As you are not yet out of your time, they are not under any obligation to employ you once you finish. So I suggest you get known to the wider company for be constructive and not for being critical/uncooperative very quickly.

[dizzyblonde]

2. up until about a year ago i used to work all the hours that where going, working away and when i wasn't working i was knackered and asleep, this resulted partly in loosing my lady friend and basically having no life, so i put a stop to it and only did my flat 40 hours........ have just been told i have to started working 50 hour weeks and start working away again :confused:



Isn't there the Working Time Directive or something that covers this sort of thing? I get given a copy to signe when I do my contracts every year. I either opt to work UPTO 48 hrs in a week, or opt out and will be willing to work over that if required.
I thought all big companies would have this sort of thing:confused:

[gruntygiggles]

Isn't there the Working Time Directive or something that covers this sort of thing? I get given a copy to signe when I do my contracts every year. I either opt to work UPTO 48 hrs in a week, or opt out and will be willing to work over that if required.
I thought all big companies would have this sort of thing:confused:

There is and the company can have you work up to 48 hours a week or you can opt in to work more and you have to sign to agree to that!

TW has some good points there. Reputation can be everything, so don't ruin it by being unprofessional.

Good communication is the key and if you decide to speak to your employers about it, make sure you have someone else with you and go in with suggestions on how to improve things, not just with complaints.

[thefallenangel]

+1 fo the coffin :D

No seriously if they want you to work 50 hours tell them you want it in writing and then go with it to a lawyer if they give it too you because EU working time directive states no more working than 16 hours out of 24 which allows for an 8 hour break afterwards. No more than 6 days in 7 or 12 days out of 14 and over a 17 week period your hours must not average higher than 48 hours.

Parking wise, funk them. What are they gonna do? Phone up a towing company to come tow the bike away?.

And this is living proof that office workers are ruining the trade circuit. Try reading through my companies electrical procedures which state "You must not work on any live circuitry" and later on state "No live working allowed unless testing". Or working in a department where apprentices equal or outnumber the craftsmen 80% of the time.

[G]

A joiner.............to be honest IMO you should be happy to be in work at the moment. I know many who are not.

[Ed]

A joiner.............to be honest IMO you should be happy to be in work at the moment. I know many who are not.

This is true - but the economic circumstances are no reason to treat people like $hit. Me removing the bins is very reasonable compared to this bunch. I think you're being exploited Gavin. No matter how irritated you are you need to be measured in your approach and not let your irritation and temper get the better of you. I suggest asking your union rep for help.

[jimmy4237]

The office staff think they're one above the office staff. It's a power thing and they love it. When the work gets done, and the invoices are paid, then the system works.

How to really screw them up:
1. Park in the car park (It's dog eat dog at my work - the bike gets parked inside!!) Then ask where in your contract it says no parking in the car park....

2. All The warehouse staff go on strike for a couple of days, getting no work done. The customers get angry about late deliveries, upsetting the office staff. Then the union rep tells the office staff to do the carpentry work and see how they get on... guaranteed you'll get results...

They **** on your carpet, you do the same to them. Eventually you get equal rights and dual respect.. everyone is happy.

[Wideboy]

so where/how do i start with waving the legal flag so to speak??

out of the 5 there is me and the other apprentice (who is 17) we are the only to that speak our minds, the 2 others are pushing retirement and have admitted to me that they just want to keep there heads down and serve out the rest of their time, the other guy has his head screwed on but has a young family and doesn't want to rock the boat

[Owenski]

Make a move mate, Im sure your good at your job an by the sound of it you can definetly find a better employer.

[dizzyblonde]

as Ed says...Union. Although our Union is always sitting in the managements back pocket:rolleyes:

[Rai86]

ed is right, you need to be careful. You cant afford to be seen as a trouble maker and lose your job over it. Raise the issues professionally

[fizzwheel]

we are the only to that speak our minds,

Then you two are at risk from being shat on from a great height. Is it a small company, because it sounds like it is.

My advice, keep your mouth shut, finish your two months to run on your apprenticeship and leave.

I've been in a similar position to you, I spoke up about one particular manager who had been bullying me and the 10 people I worked with to the point that working at the company was no longer tolerable. The MD swept the whole issue under the carpet, b*ll*cked me for being a "trouble maker" and then told the manager who we'd complained about what we'd said and she made our lives hell...

Fight the battles you can win, if you can't win dont start the fight.

[Wideboy]

suppose i'll have to then

[pawl]

head down matey, bite ya lip.

serve your trade then keep an eye out for better things.