Tips and Cornering Advice.

[Owenski]

NOTE: I'm requesting the advice not giving it

A little bit more about myself...
In brief I can't corner for s**t!

If you cant be bothered to read then skip the next paragraph.

If you can be bothered then read this-->

You lot will be able to write my biography before long. Anyways here goes, I used to ride a DT to work a couple of days a week for about a year, good for close control crap in the corners because I had chunky tyres on as I did like to do a bit of Green Laning, but this meant I cornered either slowly or sideways. After that year I requested to take a 4 day restricted access course but after a series of random factors ended up on an ER-5 taking the Direct Access course. On passing the test I reviewed certain bikes and apparently the SV is the best reccomended bike for your first. I'd been sensible with my first choice of the DT this was recomended as the best learner bike and it paid off. Following suit I bought the SV now for the last year I've used that to get to work, unfortunatly (in a way) I live just off one of the motorway and work just off the other.

So basically, before passing I didnt have the tyres or the power to corner properly. Now I've got both but I very rarely actually use it in corners. with summer coming I'd like to learn how to do it properly not knee down eye watering riding just to be compitent at taking a series of bends.

I know about counter stearing and I in the wet the DT woulds drift but other than that any tips or even any places that the yorkshire lot can reccomend to be able to get some practice in would be fantastic.

Cheers all and appolgies for another long post, but I figure if I ask anybody then you lot have got to be the best to be asking.

[the_lone_wolf]

stay wide until you can see the exit (ie: hang to the left on a right hander) - unless it compromises your safety, such as hugging the verge on a bend with a junction on the LHS

between corners use the first third of the distance to accelerate and the rest to slow down and anticipate the next corner, finish braking before you start turning, and try to maintain slight positive throttle thourghout the turn until you see the exit, where you apply power to accelerate out of the corner

if you end up going in too hot don't touch the brakes, it's the most common cause of motorcyclist fatalities, entering a corner too fast, grabbing a handful and either washing out into a lamp post, or sitting the bike up and riding into a lampost, use countersteering to turn harder, there's almost certainly enough tyre left to get you round the corner, you just need to trust the bike

a couple of requently repeated phrases:

1. in like a pussy cat, out like a tiger
2. don't try to ride faster, try to ride smoother, and you'll ride faster naturally

[fizzwheel]

OK some things to try

1. Look where you want the bike to go, dont look at the tarmac 2ft in front of your front wheel.

2. Use things like hedges, telegraph wires, the white line, to tell you what the road is doing, the early you can work out how sharp the corner is or which way a sequence of bends is going, the earlier you can set your line and corner speed. Basically give yourself as much advance warning as you can get about what is coming towards you.

3. Ride a bit slower, sounds daft, but it works. If you ride a bit slower again you can work out whats coming towards you and prepare for it.

4. Brake in a straight line before the corner, get into to a gear that allows you to hold 4000 - 5000rpm as you drive the bike nicely out of the corner from that point.

5. Whats the vanishing point doing, is it coming towards you i.e is the corner getting sharper, or is it moving away to the horizon i.e. is ther corner opening out to expand your field of vision towards the horizon. This will let you work out whether you should be slowing or accelerating.

6. Forget about counter steering for now. Its something to bear in mind, but work on the basics for now.

Pick one thing off that list, and the practise it by riding up and down a section of road you know well.

I'm not and instructor so dont take what I write as gospel, but those are all things that helped me. If you're really struggling get some more training, bikesafe, or consider IAM.

HTH

[STRAMASHER]

I like going down twisty roads I know and practice not using any brakes. Good for getting your speed into corners right and improving your corner speed and getting you driving through and out on the throttle, I find. In other words it gets you thinking about the corner earlier ,missing out the rattling down the straights and banging on the anchors and trickling through the bend.

"Torquey" V-Twins are great for it cos they pull from nothing so you can use just one or two gears and still be satisfying.

Take it easy no rush. You never stop learning/ "getting better".

Do a 150-200 mile run out in the sticks by yourself.

:)

[Paul the 6th]

I know some roads matt :) what days are you free on? we can go for a spin to some of my favorite roads up towards scamonden damn/nont sarah's etc.... always nice and quiet, and when I passed my test, I used to ride the route then turn around and do it again... sometimes as many as 8 times lol. I just love that particular route :D

Give us a shout if you fancy it (only 20 mins away :))

[Paul the 6th]

oh and as for advice in the meantime, practice what everyone above has said and it'll come with time. I generally stick out wide on the approach to a corner so I can get a good view of the road ahead, I've never had my knee down and I'm not bothered to be honest, but I do transfer my body weight a little bit to keep in balance with the bike.

Looking as far ahead as possible... over hedges, where do streetlamps bend way off in the distance etc... if there's no clues as to where the road's going, then slow down until you can see through the bend.

Have you ever been to the peak district? I'm itching to get over there when the weather's good, so if you fancy it one time, we can go for a bimble along the snake pass all nice & steady to build your confidence a little?

[Dave20046]

oh and as for advice in the meantime, practice what everyone above has said and it'll come with time. I generally stick out wide on the approach to a corner so I can get a good view of the road ahead, I've never had my knee down and I'm not bothered to be honest, but I do transfer my body weight a little bit to keep in balance with the bike.

Looking as far ahead as possible... over hedges, where do streetlamps bend way off in the distance etc... if there's no clues as to where the road's going, then slow down until you can see through the bend.

Have you ever been to the peak district? I'm itching to get over there when the weather's good, so if you fancy it one time, we can go for a bimble along the snake pass all nice & steady to build your confidence a little?
let us know when you do the peak district paul, tis my turf :cool:

[Paul the 6th]

my turf dave, but you are welcome to visit :razz:

i usually go through huddersfield, upto holme moss, down to the woodhead pass(?) then over the other side of the valley and down to glossop, turn left... voila! snake pass.

If I'm feeling enthusiastic, I'll come back over the strines moor (unlisted roads) but it's a bit bumpy!

[plowsie]

Neutral throttle is a godsend. I find the bike more maneuverable in a corner if the throttle is at a neutral position.

[Dappa D]

matt i have a couple of e-books on this subject that someone sent me a while ago but they are on my work computer, i "work":-) from home wednesdays so ill end them tomorrow chap

[wizurd]

agree with whats been said already - i'm a total newbie so my cornering ability aint to hot too. After going round some nice twisties on sunday though i can see that the "slow in - fast out" approach is a life saver. the forward planning really helps and it does make the whole cornering feel smoother.

I rushed into a v tight right hand turn and paniced and that really messed the corner up ( took her down too many gears and ended up with the rear locking up and skidding - big grin after i made it around the corner though lol ) so the forward planning i would say is key

[Paul the 6th]

come to think of it, I've got the police riders handbook to roadcraft somewhere. The pages are all crinkled after my flatmate poured some kind of drink all over it but there's some useful info about observation and cornering... not so much about neutral throttle and balancing your bodyweight, but the actual process of "Observation, road position, select appropriate gear & speed, carry out the manouvre, observation again and then accelerate away" etc)

I'll dig it out

[Dave20046]

Neutral throttle is a godsend. I find the bike more maneuverable in a corner if the throttle is at a neutral position.
Wassat?

[plowsie]

Revs are not decreasing or increasing, therefore, engine braking is not slowing you down possibly squatting front end, nor is your rear end squatting under acceleration.

[Dave20046]

ah makes sense. I'd always been under the impression you were supposed to keep up atleast slight acceleration to hold traction. Don't know though I have little technique lol.

[the_lone_wolf]

ah makes sense. I'd always been under the impression you were supposed to keep up atleast slight acceleration to hold traction. Don't know though I have little technique lol.
slight acceleration is more stable IME

when slowing down or braking the front suspension compresses and the back extends, geometry that makes the bike turn faster, so it feels more flickable when you're not accelerating, but once you've set your lean for the corner you want stability and smooth traction increasing as you exit the corner

[Paul the 6th]

i've heard that california superbike school teach the method of having slight acceleration on or just after the apex of the corner... having said that I'm not so bothered about riding like a superbike pilot so I'm happy getting my roadcraft & observation right. All good advice though re: neutral throttle vs. part throttle etc.

I only realised how much the bike straightens up during heavy braking when heading round a long sweeping bend at about 60. I (YC) had just fitted ebc hh pads about a week before and I was testing the bite to see what it felt like. If you've got strong brakes, you can feel the bike almost twisting itself straight during braking whilst cornering.

[TonyS]

my turf dave, but you are welcome to visit :razz:

i usually go through huddersfield, upto holme moss, down to the woodhead pass(?) then over the other side of the valley and down to glossop, turn left... voila! snake pass.

If I'm feeling enthusiastic, I'll come back over the strines moor (unlisted roads) but it's a bit bumpy!

One of my favourite routes. :D

There are plenty of great roads practise on round here. Oxenhope to Hebden Bridge, Cawthorne to Denby Dale, Ulleskelf to Cawood (a little further afield but well worth the trip).

A good run over Holme Moss, via Whaley Bridge and Buxton to the Cat & Fiddle should increase your confidence.

[TonyS]

If you want to improve your confidence and learn counter-steering try the i2i Motorcyle Academy courses (http://www.i2imca.com/). Machine control 1 & 3, where you use your own bike on the airfield at Tockwith are really good. They improved my confidence and safety massively. :D

[Matthie]

6. Forget about counter steering for now. Its something to bear in mind, but work on the basics for now.

I would disagree with that, I found the way I am improving my cornering is using some of the techniques from the superbike school. You should be mentally deciding when to turn in by pushing on the inside handle bar and then equally on the exit you should mentally deciding to start sitting the bike up and this should be by pulling on the inside handle bar, not pushing on the outside one. Also the decision to start sitting the bike up should be coupled with rolling on the throttle, you will be suprised actually how much throttle you can roll on if you do it smoothly.

Give it a go on the road, I found it helps alot and gets you turning in quicker which means it's easier to go fast. :)

[vardypeeps]

I know some roads matt :) what days are you free on? we can go for a spin to some of my favorite roads up towards scamonden damn/nont sarah's etc.... always nice and quiet, and when I passed my test, I used to ride the route then turn around and do it again... sometimes as many as 8 times lol. I just love that particular route :D

Give us a shout if you fancy it (only 20 mins away :))

I will join in too when my suspension is sorted :) I love that road.

[Owenski]

You lot are fantastic, I ask a question and within an hour ive got 2 pages of replys.

The mention of watching street lights is a forehead slapping moment. I watch the hedges and look for traffic coming at an angle but I never activly thought about the street lights, brilliant!. That will be a good one for giving me more confidence on unfamiliar roads. I'm pleased to know my natural technique is pretty much as described it may just be a case of trusting the bike more. I used to work at a Go-Kart track so I understand apex and racing lines. I just have a habbit of heading into them too hot then stamping through the gears. You can get away with this in a Kart it actually makes you looks like a showboat lots of sideways action loll. Not so much fun on the open road with half as many wheels.
Im more than interested in heading out for plenty of rides over summer, I need to spend at least 1 day of a weekend building Heaven, but as long as I have enough notice Im sure I'll make it out with anyone whos interested fairly often.

[bluninja]

Lots of good stuff. I would add that you shouldn't turn in with the throttle closed.

If you do then a few things happen.

Your weight is still being transferred to the front wheel and reduces your grip to turn.
The back wheel extends out increasing the wheelbase, causing you to run wider and reducing ground clearance.
When you roll on the throttle you can get some transmission lash from the chain..in slippy conditions this could cause the back to lose traction.

With some drive the balance between front and rear is maintained to give more grip for turning, more ground clearance so your toes and pegs don't scrape, and a smoother exit as you roll on more power.

[vardypeeps]

You lot are fantastic, I ask a question and within an hour ive got 2 pages of replys.

The mention of watching street lights is a forehead slapping moment. I watch the hedges and look for traffic coming at an angle but I never activly thought about the street lights, brilliant!. That will be a good one for giving me more confidence on unfamiliar roads. I'm pleased to know my natural technique is pretty much as described it may just be a case of trusting the bike more. I used to work at a Go-Kart track so I understand apex and racing lines. I just have a habbit of heading into them too hot then stamping through the gears. You can get away with this in a Kart it actually makes you looks like a showboat lots of sideways action loll. Not so much fun on the open road with half as many wheels.
Im more than interested in heading out for plenty of rides over summer, I need to spend at least 1 day of a weekend building Heaven, but as long as I have enough notice Im sure I'll make it out with anyone whos interested fairly often.

Your only local matey so be glad to have some ride outs with you.
It can get scarey when you go in too fast you just have to learn.

[appollo1]

If you are riding in the countryside try not to look at how telegraph poles go round a bend as they tend to go off into fields which can cause problems as the road may not go into the field!!

[Dave20046]

If you are riding in the countryside try not to look at how telegraph poles go round a bend as they tend to go off into fields which can cause problems as the road may not go into the field!!
It does when you're nick the gr33k :smt040



*runs*

[Mej]

if you havent already have a look at these vids, these guys are known for their skills.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...03313525&hl=en (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7869881383703313525&hl=en)

[Owenski]

No mate havn't seen those, the first one is 25min long best watch it at home later. Cheers :)

[Mej]

No mate havn't seen those, the first one is 25min long best watch it at home later. Cheers :)

I watched two of them last noght as im gonna try and get to the school this year to do level 1, worth a watch.

[newts924]

Paul give me a shout next time you are going out for a ride, sounds like a good run out.

[orose]

+1 - sounds like the plan for a rideout to me.

I'd be tempted to run it in reverse (start in derbyshire and head north, maybe ending up at squires or somewhere good).

I've got a long weekend off (starting now) so if anyone fancies something lets get it organised.

[Dave20046]

I'd be tempted to run it in reverse


ahh I know why that gsxr was so expensive now, I have to paddle mine backwards like a juggid commoner

[flymo]

...you will be suprised actually how much throttle you can roll on if you do it smoothly...

Oh yeah :cool:, like all of it if you do it properly. Go watch some club racing and listen for the throttle coming on out of a bend.