Torque really necessary?

[MCN_LiamM]

Just been looking through a couple of techy posts and noticed a lot of people seem to be saying 'make sure you tighten it to the correct torque' and things to that effect.

I don't have a torque wrench and neither has my Dad. He always taught me to tighten it by hand and with axles don't tighten them too tight and it's always worked fine for me.

So is a torque wrench really necessary?

[Dicky Ticker]

With the cheesey fixings on the SV it is advisable but not 100% necessary

[MCN_LiamM]

My Dad taught me it all on my 1980 DT125 and that didn't fall apart...












Well not entirely anyway

[Sosha]

Depends how much of a guerilla you are - or depth of knowledge of lever law.



EDIT: Or different threads/materials.... For me I use one more to avoid overtightening

[MCN_LiamM]

Well I could manage to tighten up everything fine at 16

I find biking is full of lots of conflciting information.

For example the torque thing, but also things like running an engine in.

I've always lubed the chain with the bike on paddock stand in first gear as has my Dad and nearly everyone else I speak to says that's a big no no.

I think if you find something that works for you then stick to it.

[timwilky]

Some things I would never bother about, sump plugs, spark plugs, clip on and lever mountings etc.

However, engine components such as cylinder heads,
frame&suspension, wheels/brakes all get properly torqued.

The torque value is a nominal figure that should ensure a fastener remains within the elastic range at optimum "tightness", in truth most experienced mechanics can "feel" a fastener. However, most have also experienced threads failing well below recommended torques and would combine experienced feel with manufacturers recommended torques and compromise.

As for lubing the chain with a turning wheel, that is asking for a serious accident, dont come crying if your sleeve etc gets dragged in and your hand/arm get mangled. I have seen enough real life serious accidents in workshops to advise anyone to take stupid risks. Put it on the stand and turn it my hand.

[plowsie]

Your supposed to torque spark plugs :shock: Well I never :lol:

[Sosha]

Well I could manage to tighten up everything fine at 16

I find biking is full of lots of conflciting information.

For example the torque thing, but also things like running an engine in.

I've always lubed the chain with the bike on paddock stand in first gear as has my Dad and nearly everyone else I speak to says that's a big no no.

I think if you find something that works for you then stick to it.

Well if you've had someone showing you that's one thing. If you've never seen a spanner before and are putting your brake calipers back on with the thought "Better do these up tight - don't want em coming undone" a Torque wrench could be useful.

RE Chains no one's going to say "pop it in first" because of the inevitable percentage of fingers in chains people.

[flymo]

I think torque settings are extremely important. Experience however allows you to tighten some nuts etc to roughly the right amount without the proper wrench.

Without a torque wrench you have no idea whether you are tightening too much or too little, especially on delicate parts or parts that require very high torque settings.

Watch any MotoGP tyre mechanic when changing a rear wheel, 'near enough' isnt accurate enough, thats why they use a torque wrench.

[Alpinestarhero]

Personally, for some tings I wait till im with my dad because I dont have a torque wrench (like chain adjustment). My dad tightens almost everything by hand (since he has been a car mechanic for the best part of forever, he's very well calibrated) but I would prefer a torque wrench. Somethings I am ok with (caliper bolts and stuff) but other things i'm not so confident with (i have had rear wheels on mountain bikes slip forward because the axle wasnt done up tight enough...it was painfull then, i dont wanna try it on my SV!)

Some things I wouldnt use a torque wrench for, like doing up a sump bolt, because that dosnt need to be done very tight (just a nip)

[johnnyrod]

I'm with Wilky

[Baph]

The way I see it, is a torque wrench is better safe than sorry.

As TW, I don't use mine for everything, but things I consider important get a sanity check.

I've been riding the SV long enough to tighten up the rear axel perfectly well with just an old tyre iron, but it still gets checked before the bike gets started up.

I wouldn't like to have an off day & not tighten it up properly.

As per chains & lubrication, 1st gear for me too. I've even been to view a bike that someone else was looking at buying, and asked to check it over. So up it went on the stand, and I ran it up through the gearbox. If it's going to jump off the sprocket on the road, I'd rather it happen on the stand!

[suzsv650]

Ive rebuilt my 350lc many times without a tourque wrench no probs

[AndyW]

£20 for a torque wrench from Argos. Its cheaper to buy one and get it right first time than over/under tighten and have bits wear out or fall off.

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/7013887/Trail/searchtext%3ETORQUE.htm

[petevtwin650]

Torquing the rear axle on an Sv is tricky.

The Curvy is only about 60MNs, but the pointy is about double that. Don't quote me on the figures folks, and a mates lad tightened his Pointy rear axle so tight it was bowing in the box section of the swingarm! :(

[alexs]

Torquing the rear axle on an Sv is tricky.

The Curvy is only about 60MNs, but the pointy is about double that. Don't quote me on the figures folks, and a mates lad tightened his Pointy rear axle so tight it was bowing in the box section of the swingarm! :(

Rear axle on a pointy is 100 Nm I think. Presumably it's in the service manuals :P (http://www.sv650.org/sv_manuals.htm)

[Dan]

Torquing the rear axle on an Sv is tricky.

The Curvy is only about 60MNs, but the pointy is about double that. Don't quote me on the figures folks, and a mates lad tightened his Pointy rear axle so tight it was bowing in the box section of the swingarm! :(

It's amazing the Cheesium can stand that :rolleyes:

[sinbad]

With my long torque wrench, which I use for the rear axle primarily, 100NM feels like nothing with your hand at the very end. Trying to guesstimate 60 with a lever like that would be impossible, I guarantee you'd over tighten it, because you'd just think "no way, that's too loose".

Often it's easy to make sure it's "tight enough" without a torque wrench, but finding the sometimes narrow margin between "tight enough" and "over tight" is well worth a couple of £30 tools to add to your kit.

[Luckypants]

I guess the question is, would you use one if you had one? It can be a bit of a pain looking up the torque value and then getting another tool out to set it. I have bought two torque wrenches and use them for everything on the bike. The cost of fixing the first time you strip a thread due to over tightening would easily cover the cost of a decent torque wrench.

What surprises me more than anything is how low some of the torque values are, I would definitely over tighten some stuff without one.

[jimmy__riddle]

I guess the question is, would you use one if you had one? It can be a bit of a pain looking up the torque value and then getting another tool out to set it. I have bought two torque wrenches and use them for everything on the bike. The cost of fixing the first time you strip a thread due to over tightening would easily cover the cost of a decent torque wrench.

What surprises me more than anything is how low some of the torque values are, I would definitely over tighten some stuff without one.

+1

sump bungs and spark plugs are probably the most abused.

[yorkie_chris]

I figure NGK know more about spark plugs than me, so don't use a torque wrench on them.

[SoulKiss]

The cost of fixing the first time you strip a thread due to over tightening would easily cover the cost of a decent torque wrench.

In those cases it is indeed a case of Torque is cheap :)

[Daimo]

I only ever lube my chain in 1st gear.

Your spraying it, you don't need your fingers anywhere near the sprockets.

[Viney]

Tighten until it shears then back 1/4 turn :lol:

Somthing it tighten to the correct setting, some i do up to what i feel is tight.

[jimmy__riddle]

I figure NGK know more about spark plugs than me, so don't use a torque wrench on them.

?

I use the torque setting for the spark plugs as set by kawasaki, as they make the head.

[yorkie_chris]

NGK reckon finger tight plus half a turn to crush the washer*. Plenty IMO since you're just making a gas seal.

*For their flat washer type plugs

[jimmy__riddle]

NGK reckon finger tight plus half a turn to crush the washer*. Plenty IMO since you're just making a gas seal.

*For their flat washer type plugs

ah, makes sense.

i think the the abuse of spark plugs comes from over tightening.

[jambo]

Some things I wouldnt use a torque wrench for, like doing up a sump bolt, because that dosnt need to be done very tight (just a nip)

Common misconception this, The torque wrench is adjustable, often to figures of lower than "b@asrd stiff" In fact, if you use the low figure just to the side of the "sump nut" in you manual it'll be fine.

This pre-supposes that the torque wrench works. Some people have damaged things by leaning seriously hard on a torque wrench that's set wrong, sheared the bolt and then blamed the tool. The common sense factor has to come in somewhere.

Jambo

[Ed]

Careless torque costs lives:D

[MattCollins]

A torque wrench might save some grief, but be aware that they are available in different sizes for different jobs. An 18" 100ftlb wrench is worse than useless when bolts need say 15ftlb.

Cheers

[Zen Beetle]

Will play it safe and use a torque wrench. The problem I have is that I have a 1/2" drive wrench and many 1/4" drive sockets. Will an adaptor for a 1/4" socket effect the calibration on a 1/2" drive wrench? Perhaps its a stupid question, but I would rather be safe knowing that its OK to use an adaptor.

[MattCollins]

No problems with using a step down adapter.

I would however caution against using a 100ftlb wrench (most 1/2" drive go this high) on a bolt that requires say 4ftlb. They lack the required sensitivity. There are wrenches made specifically for the lower torque ranges.

Cheers

[yorkie_chris]

+1 they are not accurate at the extremes of their range.

[timwilky]

use of adaptors make no difference to the applied torque.


However, I think you will find a 1/2" drive wrench will be out of the range for most small fasteners that a 1/4" drive socket would get used on.

Thats why I have 1/4" 3/8" 1/2" and yes a 1" drive torque wrench


edit beaten by others to the same reply

[Zen Beetle]

Thanks Matt. Good point about the lack of required sensitivity on the 100ftib wrenches. Will probably treat myself to the Halfords Pro torque Wrench 8-60NM. My old £15 wrench was OK for servicing my old BMW but I wouldn't trust its accuracy on the more critical SV650S cheese like fastenings.

[yorkie_chris]

No substitute for feel even while using a torque wrench

[Zen Beetle]

I agree that there's no substitute for feel and will take on board your advice regarding the tightening of spark plugs. However, feel comes with experience and I just don't have enough confidence in my own feeling/sensitivity. I'm embarrassed to say that I once stripped the threads of a sump through over zealous tightening.

[yorkie_chris]

I give no advice about spark plugs, I follow NGKs advice because they know more about plugs than me :-P

[Zen Beetle]

I stand corrected. Anyway, thanks for pointing out NGK advice.