What now?...electrics

[Dave20046]

grr having an electrics issue with my bike.
Came to use it last sunday and it was completely dead would not start, charged it for 2 hours and it's been fine up until today. Only thing I have noticed is the headlight/indicators dim when the brake light is activated. Had a half hour ride today pulled up for an hour or so, started it up ( a couple of times as I was testing something) then rode 20 minutes home got to a corner applied the front brake and the whole bike jerked the mileometer turned off and the rev counter soared, pretty sure the speedometer pin had gone to 0 too. Completely died. Pulled in tried to start it up but it just didn't have the power to turn over. Switch everything off, gave it 10 seconds and tried turning it on with the lights off and it started up and I was on my way. Got to my road thoguht I'd test something, put the lights on as soon as I touched the brake the bike started dieing again, digital display/mileometer turned off, rev counter jumped again etc. Pulled into my drive, switched off and tried to start again but had no power - just struggled.

Any ideas? reg/rec? bad earth?

[Leopard_lily]

sounds like the regulator to me

[yorkie_chris]

Check the charging system, but a bad earth can give lots of wierdness.

[Dave20046]

cheers for the replies.
right I've acquired a multimeter how can I check the charging. A certain voltage across the battery at a certain rpm?

[yorkie_chris]

Should have 13.5 - 14.5V at 5000rpm with the headlights on.

[Dave20046]

cheers will pop out and try it now

[Dave20046]

it ain't charging. keeps at a steady 12v whatever happens.
any clues?

[Leopard_lily]

Check your stator now

[Leopard_lily]

oops sorry sounded a little demanding oooer - i just meant that you should try your stator next lol

[Dave20046]

Check your stator now
Sorry, how do you mean check it?
I'm a little slow at the best of times but electrics are a no go for me.

[yorkie_chris]

OK disconnect plug going to reg rec (3 yellow wires)

Set DMM to "AC Voltage" 100v scale, measure between each pair of yellow wires coming out of the engine. 1-2 2-3 and 3-1 (polarity doesn't matter...). Should have 60 Volts AC at 5000 rpm.

[Dave20046]

cheers chris, haven't got time to do that now have to nip out but I'll do it later and report back :thumright:

[Leopard_lily]

Stator:
If your motorcycle is not charging, you need to check the stator. Switch the multimeter to OHMS range on the lowest setting, usually 10 ohms.

With the motorcycle off, read between the 3 pins or holes in the block. These should show continuity. If your meter is accurate you could read 1 to 3 ohms,
but cheaper meters will not be that accurate.

As long there is continuity it passes this test. Now change the setting on
the multimeter to the highest OHM range like 100K.

Touch one probe to a pin or hole in the engine, the other to the engine case or a metal bolt on the engine. The meter should not move. Try the other pin the same way and it also shouldn't move. If you get any reading the stator is shorted and must be replaced.

This requires special tools and you should consider taking it to a shop if you feel its a job you can't do yourself.

If you get no movement on the meter, it's not shorted out so you need to check for output.

To check for output, change multimeter to AC Volts setting over 100 Volts.

With the alternator plug disconnected, start the bike. Use the probes (not polarity sensitive) to read between the pins or holes in the engine block.

You should read about 20V per 1000 rpm's. At idle expect about 25V, as you rev the engine it will increase to 60 or 70 Volts.

If it does your stator is OK, if you get no output the stator is bad and you will need to replace it or take it to a shop if you feel you can't make the repair yourself.

[yorkie_chris]

That's not entirely correct. The plug for the stator isn't on the engine at all, also the SV has a 3phase alternator, so 3 wires.

Otherwise, aye.

[Leopard_lily]

sorry chris

[yorkie_chris]

sorry chris

No problem, it's just I know what Dave is like when wiring is involved :-P

[Dave20046]

god I'm bad with wiring :(

Gonna make an attempt now, reg recs definitely under the rear pod on the brake side of the bike isn't it?


Stator:smt017

[yorkie_chris]

Yep, it's the alloy block the size of a fag packet with fins on it.

[Dave20046]

Yep, it's the alloy block the size of a fag packet with fins on it.
aye, I've seen a reg rec before. Just thought a stator was attached to your flywheel.
Didn't have chance today :( Will sort it out tomorrow.

[yorkie_chris]

The stator isn't attatched, it is next to the flywheel though.

[Dave20046]

OK disconnect plug going to reg rec (3 yellow wires)

Set DMM to "AC Voltage" 100v scale, measure between each pair of yellow wires coming out of the engine. 1-2 2-3 and 3-1 (polarity doesn't matter...). Should have 60 Volts AC at 5000 rpm.
Just got already for a nice ride and it happened again about 30 mins from my house looked down and noticed the digital display was flashing and the speedo pin was going mental pulled in it went away thought meh carried on got a minute up the road and it died for 5 minutes. Got it started and rode home quick.

Just got back and stripped off the back plastics just about to try the above out.

[Dave20046]

Right my multimeter doesn't have a 100v scale and I'm not entirely sure it was set to AC but I used it on this setting
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff246/dave20046/IMAG0127.jpg

and got 0 at each pair of pins

[yorkie_chris]

Wrong setting, turn it clockwise one click. It appears that's the DCV setting, so averages out to 0v with AC.

[Dave20046]

Wrong setting, turn it clockwise one click. It appears that's the DCV setting, so averages out to 0v with AC.
brilliant I'll run give that a pop - cheers yoda

[Dave20046]

ooook something a little wierder just happened.
Went to try the above again turned the key noticed the digital display was off (everything else looked normal) decided it must just be low on battery; thoguht I'd see if it'd start. But it just locked on the ignition, kept trying to turn itself over even though I'd released the button. Turned the ignition off but it still carried on trying to do it, disconnected the battery and it stopped. Reconnected the battery and it's carrying on!

[yorkie_chris]

Tap the starter solenoid with something. The contacts have stuck.

[Dave20046]

Tap the starter solenoid with something. The contacts have stuck.
Where's that? Not around the bottom of the front cylinder area is it?

I've heard they go often on sv's actually :scratch: or atleast I think it was the starter solenoid.

[yorkie_chris]

Starter solenoid, under the RHS seat infil panel where the main fuse lives.

[Dave20046]

cheers, will run out and have a gander

[Dave20046]

gah I hate this bike, gave the starter sole. a tap, solved the issue (ta). But turned the key in the ignition and everything was completely dead, gave it a min turned it off and on still dead. Decided it was a fuse, checked the main fuse - looked ok (thankfully as I've just found out I don't have a spare), checked everything else all looked ok went to try it again and it worked!

At 4500rpm the three pairs of terminals had 75v

[yorkie_chris]

So it's not alternator stator then.

What is battery voltage at 5krpm?

[Dave20046]

12v (unless I was using the wrong setting?.... I was using the setting in the picture on the other page)

[Dave20046]

looking like the reg/rec then? :scratch: ?

Although I don't see why it's causing the wierd speedo spazzing or when the display randomly went off. :confused:

[Dave20046]

Just had another thought as it's likely I'm being a tit, which side of the reg rec was I supposed to be testing? Bike side or reg/rec side?

[Dave20046]

Just double checked tried the reg/rec side too and it's at 0 so I'm assuming I was testing the right connector block before.

[ThEGr33k]

You are unlucky man. Id test the bike side. But if you are getting 12V at the battery then its obvious that it is more than likely the rectifier.

As to the Dash spazzing I dont know. Hmph. Not enough power due to the sparkers running off of the battery?

[Dave20046]

yup. The bike side is coming in at 75 or 76v, rectifier side is 0. Might try source a replacement reg/rec. Anyone know what'll fit a curvy other than the standard one?

[ThEGr33k]

Not too sure but I found these on Fleabay...

http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_npmv=3&_trksid=p3910.m38.l1313&_nkw=SV650+rectifier&_sacat=See-All-Categories

[Dave20046]

cheers greek. more expensive than I would have thought.****

[Dave20046]

Found one for about £40. Anyone know if there's a worthwhile upgrade before I buy it?

Wonder why mine's gone titsup. Looks like it has had a knock at somepoint though (smashed fin)

[BigFootIsBlurry]

I think I've heard of people using a CBR reg/rec, but I'm certainly not the person to say if its worth it, I'm no good at this stuff.

Incidently, Dave numbers, not only does your bike look like mine it appears that we're having very similar problems aswell.

[Dave20046]

lol the curse of the yellow curvy. Crashing, choke plungers, clutch cover leaks, brakes and electrics. Yay's :razz:

Been lucky with corrosion so far though *touch wood*


Cheers I'll see what other people say about the cbr one.

[ThEGr33k]

Aye, if thats the problem then there is really nothing else you can do! :(

[Dave20046]

Aye, if thats the problem then there is really nothing else you can do! :(
Might be worth waiting for an sv yoda to confirm it as the reg/rec before I throw more money at this bike., but it's looking like it isn't it.

[yorkie_chris]

Dave you need to test the alternators output at the bike side not the reg-rec. You have done and found 70 odd volts, this shows with a reasonable degree of certainty that the alternator is providing power for the reg rec to reg-rec for you.

12v with the engine at 5krpm. (sorry) did you have the connectors to the reg-rec connected? If so, then the regs fried.

Don't use a normal SV reg-rec. They're mince. Use a CBR600 one, I think mine was from an 04 or something like. Much higher rated unit and better quality wiring. You will need to change the plugs on it though.

[Dave20046]

Cheers chris :thumright: Yeah the reg/rec was connected when I tested the across the battery at 5krpm.

Cheers for that - cbr600 reg rec it is. Will the year matter do you know?

[Dave20046]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CBR600-regulator-and-rectifire_W0QQitemZ180343874727QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ UK_Motorcycle_Parts?hash=item180343874727&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18 ?

[yorkie_chris]

Looks the same as mine aye, I think mine was from an RR but I know the CBRF ones have been used successfully.

Like I say you will need to change the plugs.

[Dave20046]

It actually looks like there's more than 3 wires going to that white plug :scratch:

That shouldn't be a problem I'll just cut them off my ballsed one.

EDIT: no there isn't there's 3 going to the white plug and 4 going to the black plug. I take it the white plug should be replaced with my current 3 pin plug and the balck plug replaced by the 2 pin one and like combine the wires or something???

[yorkie_chris]

More than 3? Looks more like a bit of sleeving to me. Same plug as what I chopped off mine...

[Dave20046]

More than 3? Looks more like a bit of sleeving to me. Same plug as what I chopped off mine...
looks like 3 yellows to one plug and 2 reds and 2 greens to the other

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HONDA-CBR600RR-REGULATOR-RECTIFIER-CBR-600-04-05_W0QQitemZ230335826197QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Moto rcycle_Parts?hash=item230335826197&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18

[yorkie_chris]

Yes that's fine.

The reds go to the +ve, the greens go to earth.

[Dave20046]

Yes that's fine.

The reds go to the +ve, the greens go to earth.
cool :smt003 Will get it asap and hopefully get back on it in a few days.

[Dave20046]

cheers

[Dave20046]

Can't see how I'm going to make the cbr one fit securely enough, just been on the phone to a breaker and he's said the reg recs need to be fitted really securely so they can heatsink through the frame. The holes don't line up on the cbr ones apparently :-?
Make just bang an sv one on

[ThEGr33k]

How much would you save with a CBR one? Id just shell out on the SV item so you know itll fit with no issues. :)

[yorkie_chris]

Lined up fine when I fitted mine...

[yorkie_chris]

How much would you save with a CBR one? Id just shell out so you know itll fit with no issues. :)

You don't save owt, you get a reg that isn't likely to vomit its guts up into your bikes rse at the slightest provocation!

For peace of mind and a hassle free fit, get an electrex one.

[ThEGr33k]

You don't save owt, you get a reg that isn't likely to vomit its guts up into your bikes rse at the slightest provocation!

For peace of mind and a hassle free fit, get an electrex one.

Are the SV units pretty poor then? I thought the SV as a unit was pretty reliable... Well most, sorry Dave. :rolleyes:

[yorkie_chris]

The stock SV RR's are mince. A known weak point.

[ThEGr33k]

Damn... fair enough :)

[Dave20046]

Breaker reckoned the holes were aligned wrong, probably just didn't have one lol. Meh suck it and see I guess just been and picked up a japanese aftermarket SV one. Probably pants but desperate to get back on the bike.

[Dave20046]

**** wasn't the reg rec.

Unless 13v across the battery at 5rpm is normal?

[yorkie_chris]

13v across the battery is a little low.

should be 13.5 - 14.5v.

[Dave20046]

13v across the battery is a little low.

should be 13.5 - 14.5v.
aye, I'm pretty sure with the old regrec it was at a steady 12v though :scratch:
will go double check.

[yorkie_chris]

Steady 12v means it ain't charging.

[Dave20046]

but would 13v indicate it's now charging with this new reg rec?? :)

I'll run out and double check. I've got a set off puff gloves wired to the batter with an inline fuse. They're not plugged in but the sockets there. Could this be sapping owt?

[yorkie_chris]

Nah.

If your battery is low then it may reduce the voltage a little.

5krpm, with the lights on, what's the voltage?

[Dave20046]

with the new reg rec it seems to hold 13v (with the light on) on tick over and up to 4krpm but hitting 5 (and on short revs) it flicks back to 12v then to 13v etc.
wondered if it was from the vibration though.

Does the same with the old RR but I swear it flicks back to 12 more often.

[Dave20046]

bump.
Anything else it could be?

[yorkie_chris]

Seems to be working but low. Charge the battery to eliminate that, then try again.

[Baph]

I've just skipped over the thread, but alternator is giving 75v when revved, reg/rec has been replaced for a jap after-market one, and now gives 13v intermittently.

So it's intermittently charging, but not as much as it should be.

IMO, take the R/R back to whichever idiot sold you it & get a CBR one like YC said. Chop the connectors off the CBR R/R & the old R/R, use the old R/R connector on the CBR R/R.

Without testing it, I reckon the jap R/R is giving an intermittent output because it can't cope with smoothing properly.

[Dave20046]

I've just skipped over the thread, but alternator is giving 75v when revved, reg/rec has been replaced for a jap after-market one, and now gives 13v intermittently.

So it's intermittently charging, but not as much as it should be.

IMO, take the R/R back to whichever idiot sold you it & get a CBR one like YC said. Chop the connectors off the CBR R/R & the old R/R, use the old R/R connector on the CBR R/R.

Without testing it, I reckon the jap R/R is giving an intermittent output because it can't cope with smoothing properly.
The jap reg recs doing the same as the old sv reg rec baph :(

Cheers

[yorkie_chris]

Are you getting a voltage across any of the wires? Like if you stick the voltmeter in the back of the red wire of the reg reg (while it's plugged in + running) and the other onto the live of the battery ... is there a voltage shown?

[Dave20046]

I'll go check :thumbsup:

[yorkie_chris]

That is to check if voltage is being lost across the wiring... i.e is a corroded wire losing charge..

[Dave20046]

No there is no voltage between the back of the connector block (red wire) to the positive terminal on the battery.


With the reg rec out on the block of the pins I'm getting in the 70s, with the reg rec in on the backs of those pins I'm getting like 1,2,3,4. That normal?

[Dave20046]

That is to check if voltage is being lost across the wiring... i.e is a corroded wire losing charge..
****, looking like a bad wire then?

ta

[skumlerud]

Found one for about £40. Anyone know if there's a worthwhile upgrade before I buy it?

Don't buy a SV reg/rect - they don't work. Buy one from a GSXR or preferably a Honda. I have a reg/rect from a '04 CBR600 on my curvy. It charges my battery at 14V all the way (even with a brand new SV reg/rect I rarely saw voltages above 13v), and it runs way cooler.

Wonder why mine's gone titsup. Looks like it has had a knock at somepoint though (smashed fin)

They all stop working. I replaced the first broken reg/rect with a new, expensive one from a dealer. It sort of worked for a couple of years, but charging voltage was still below 13V so I killed about one battery a year.

[yorkie_chris]

No there is no voltage between the back of the connector block (red wire) to the positive terminal on the battery.


With the reg rec out on the block of the pins I'm getting in the 70s, with the reg rec in on the backs of those pins I'm getting like 1,2,3,4. That normal?

Dave you've confused me with what you're actually testing there. Give us a ring when you get chance to work on it.

[Dave20046]

Dave you've confused me with what you're actually testing there. Give us a ring when you get chance to work on it.
Cheers chris - can I give you a ring in like 20 minutes half an hour?
mobile or landline?

God I hate electrics

[yorkie_chris]

NP.

Landline please

[21QUEST]

Click on the link below and read that thread. I believe you have a naked?
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=128877

Check for continuity between front of loom(ignition plug) to the rear of loom(CDI plug), of the wire that was the culprit on that thread.

One the ignition side it's orange/yellow but colours are different on the loom side....just see what colour it is on loom side.

Makes sure probes are making good contact and stay so, as you wiggle the loom, at head stock area.

If fuses(usually signal fuse) were blowing I would have suggested the left side of loom, underneath riders seat.

EDIT: I'd suggest checking for continuity on all wires that would make the bike cut out or prevent the battery from charging or coils from working as they should. Chris would know which ones ;)

Hope I'm repeating what has already been suggested. I haven't read every post.



Ben

[Dave20046]

Cheers ben, That's helpful, it's looking like it might be a wire under the headstock now as I've just undone all the block and wd40'd them and gone to turn on the bike and there's nothing no lights, no digital display so it must be a crappy wire I'm knocking or something.

[yorkie_chris]

Have you connected them back up after? :-P

[Dave20046]

it's unlikely :razz:

[Dave20046]

:oops:

[yorkie_chris]

Lmao!

[Dave20046]

Ok ok I forgot we cleaned the contacts on the plug going to the starter solenoid :roll:


laugh at will...

[Dave20046]

right now it's all actually plugged in it's starting up and the lights are coming on etc when ignition's on. Had a hunt round can't find any snaps or corrosion, with the ignition on no amount of wiggling anywhere seems to cause the power to drop.

Anyone know how to check the continuity? :scratch:



Spoke to yorkie earlier and the reg rec seems to be doing it's thing (but a bit poorly) but what with the lights dimming when the brakes applied and the speedo pin going mental and the periods of no power at all to the clocks and idiot lights thinking it might be a bad wire somewhere.

[RatchetJob]

Anyone know how to check the continuity?

Set you multimeter to 200 Ω, the one with the little speaker near it, you have two shouldn't matter which one.

Touch the two probes together and you should get an audible beep or buzz and a low reading of 000 or 001 on the screen.

This noise means you have continuity, no noise means a break somewhere.

To test the wiring connect one probe to one end of the wire and the other probe to the other end. If you get the same noise as above you have continuity, if there is silence you have a break.

If you get silence but a reading other than a 000, 001 etc then you have a high resistance connection, most likely caused by corrosion in the connectors.

[Dave20046]

Set you multimeter to 200 Ω, the one with the little speaker near it, you have two shouldn't matter which one.

Touch the two probes together and you should get an audible beep or buzz and a low reading of 000 or 001 on the screen.

This noise means you have continuity, no noise means a break somewhere.

To test the wiring connect one probe to one end of the wire and the other probe to the other end. If you get the same noise as above you have continuity, if there is silence you have a break.

If you get silence but a reading other than a 000, 001 etc then you have a high resistance connection, most likely caused by corrosion in the connectors.
Cheers ratchetjob :thumright:

Any ideas of points to test? My issue seems to be cutting, out the clocks going mental (digital odometer display going off and speedo pin darting around) and then not enough power to turnover or sometimes no power to the clocks or lights at all.

[Dave20046]

Click on the link below and read that thread. I believe you have a naked?
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=128877

Check for continuity between front of loom(ignition plug) to the rear of loom(CDI plug), of the wire that was the culprit on that thread.

One the ignition side it's orange/yellow but colours are different on the loom side....just see what colour it is on loom side.

Makes sure probes are making good contact and stay so, as you wiggle the loom, at head stock area.

If fuses(usually signal fuse) were blowing I would have suggested the left side of loom, underneath riders seat.

EDIT: I'd suggest checking for continuity on all wires that would make the bike cut out or prevent the battery from charging or coils from working as they should. Chris would know which ones ;)

Hope I'm repeating what has already been suggested. I haven't read every post.



Ben
Erm any pointers where the ignition plug and the cdi plug are located? :oops:

[yorkie_chris]

Ignition plug is a 6 pin green fella, behind the headstock IIRC. CDI plug is under the tail, on the CDI. But the CDI plug rarely fails, it's rubber sealed.

[RatchetJob]

Any ideas of points to test?

I had an almost identical problem in another bike a few months ago.

It turned out to be a corroded connector where the ignition switch plugs into the main wiring loom.

The switch handles most of the current running through the bike (apart from the starter motor which goes through the solenoid) so most things will be affected, clocks, cutting out etc.

This caused a high resistance in a high current circuit which eventually melted the connector a little.

My guess is you have a similar problem. I would test there first, check for signs of corrosion and heat damage on wiring and connectors.

[yorkie_chris]

Also on the back of the loom about level with the fuel tank hinge the main red wire out of the solenoid splits, one goes back to the fusebox, the other goes forward to the ignition. This connection can sometimes corrode. (but you have to dig around in the loom to get to the thing.)

[Dave20046]

Cheers guys right I'll go try those. By ignition switch you mean the phsical switch on the switch gear right? Just a case of testing continuity between the ignion wire on that block and the same wire on another block somewhere along the loom?

[yorkie_chris]

Yeah exactly, hopefully a resistance test will show you where a wire is broken.

[Dave20046]

Cool I'll go have some fun then.

[RatchetJob]

The switch I had the trouble with was the main switch, the one you put your key into rather than the starter switch on the right hand bar. But its definitely worth checking both.