View Full Version : Honda’s C-ABS
Good or bad :confused:
It improves safety but does it take away the rider’s skill, riding involvement and the purity of bike control? :)
Luckypants
09-04-09, 09:07 AM
Good or bad :confused:
It improves safety but does it take away the rider’s skill, riding involvement and the purity of bike control? :)
Not in my experience. The linking seems to have a small effect, barely noticeable and indeed if you did not know the brakes were linked you may never notice. Hooning round a track on the limit you may notice a difference, but on the road you won't.
ABS has come on once in 18k miles, when I had done less than 100 miles on the bike and was forced into a panic / emergency brake situation. It stopped me going down in the middle of the M6, for which I'm grateful.
SoulKiss
09-04-09, 09:11 AM
the purity of bike control? :)
Best load of ******** statement this year - and I say that as someone who has been trying very hard to get that title............. :smt077
Best load of ******** statement this year - and I say that as someone who has been trying very hard to get that title............. :smt077
You still got 8 months to beat it, won't be hard then :rolleyes:
Ceri JC
09-04-09, 11:34 AM
My POV:
The reasons I'm against it are more mechanical than thinking I'm a Riding God; More to go wrong, harder to service, more weight, etc. I also can't think of any off I've had where it would have made the blindest bit of difference, still, I'm sure there are instances where it might be useful. I'd take it on a tourer/2-up bike any day, assuming the cost was only a couple of hundred pounds extra, but I'd not pay extra for it on a "fun" bike. At the same time, I'm not egotistical enough that I'd pay to get it removed if I bought a second hand bike that already had it on.
As to linked brakes: Front->Back linked = Generally a good thing.
When the reverse is also true, it can be bad during tight low speed turns. Fortunately BMW have realised this. Can't recall whether or not Hondas do, but the one I rode with linked brakes didn't appear to suffer from the problems associated with rear->front linking, so I'd assume they have.
yorkie_chris
09-04-09, 11:58 AM
I don't want it, won't have it. Too complicated. More electronic boswallox to go wrong.
Metal stuff, fixable, simple = good. Electronic stuff, complicated, expensive, not fixable, h*nda = bad.
Jamiebridges123
09-04-09, 12:28 PM
The C-abs system, such as that on the new Blade is reportedly very good, and only kicks in if wheel lock is detected. I wouldn't expect it to detract from the fun of riding a superbike.
I guess if it was on your Dullsville or something then you'd be using it differently and it'd be no doubt very helpful, especially if someone pulls out on you in the wet! No amount of skill can counteract your instincts unless you know what happen.
I don't think it takes away skill as such, because the amount of brake force it takes to lock will never be the same, the next time you use it. Generally you'd take the lowest, say in the wet and cold, and add 15% for the dry usage, but obviously different tarmac and weather conditions could affect this..
Would I pay extra for ABS? Well maybe, depends. I wouldn't buy it on something like a KTM Superduke, but I would on a VStrom or Gladius or something. I just like feeling there's something there to help me should I panic and grab too much brake. I'll happily be called unskillfull or that I'm relying on electronics, when my bike and me are in one piece! :)
I don't want it, won't have it. Too complicated. More electronic boswallox to go wrong.
Metal stuff, fixable, simple = good. Electronic stuff, complicated, expensive, not fixable, h*nda = bad.
+0.5
I don't think ABS on bikes is much less reliable than ABS in cars, the technology has been about for ages in the automotive world. But yes, it's quite pricey to fix if it goes wrong. :D
Luckypants
09-04-09, 12:50 PM
I don't want it, won't have it. Too complicated. More electronic boswallox to go wrong.
Metal stuff, fixable, simple = good. Electronic stuff, complicated, expensive, not fixable = bad
Have to agree, bleeding the brakes is a logistical nightmare!
h*nda = bad. :smt098 - It's paid for and in front of yours!
But yes, it's quite pricey to fix if it goes wrong. :D
And if it goes wrong when you're relying on it, that price could be terminal. But on reflection I think i'd still have it, given the choice.
Luckypants
09-04-09, 01:00 PM
And if it goes wrong when you're relying on it, that price could be terminal. But on reflection I think i'd still have it, given the choice.
If it goes wrong when a wheel locks, then the result is the same as any other bike..... If it goes wrong, then the brakes will still work in the normal fashion. If a pipe breaks etc, well the problem is the same as any other bike.
Basically the only thing you won't have is ABS, so then it is just like any other bike.
If it goes wrong when a wheel locks, then the result is the same as any other bike..... If it goes wrong, then the brakes will still work in the normal fashion. If a pipe breaks etc, well the problem is the same as any other bike.
Basically the only thing you won't have is ABS, so then it is just like any other bike.
But you have to know whether the ABS is working or not and then brake accordingly. Different technique.
Luckypants
09-04-09, 01:06 PM
But you have to know whether the ABS is working or not and then brake accordingly. Different technique.
Ahhh I see, you are talking about using ABS as part of normal riding? I don't, I ride 'normally' and think of the ABS as a safety net for when I screw up / child runs out* / gravel I did not see* to help catch a locked wheel.
On my bike there is the ABS warning light that comes on when any part of the system fails.
*These are covered really by 'I screw up' as I should have good enough observation to see hazards, but was for example.
yorkie_chris
09-04-09, 01:28 PM
:smt098 in front of yours!
Never for long :-P
Suzuki > H*nda. End of.
SoulKiss
09-04-09, 01:36 PM
Never for long :-P
Suzuki > H*nda. End of.
Can anyone that hasn't owned or at least ridden an ABS equipped bike please STFU with their uninformed theoretical babblings please.
ABS is great, I have it on the Zed in un-linked/combined form and if you mess up it lets you know about it due to the feedback through the lever but doesnt punish you for it.
I am not sure about whether I would like to lose control over how I apply the brakes with regards to front/rear, but as I haven't ridden one I cannot really comment as per my opening paragraph in this post.
Luckypants
09-04-09, 01:38 PM
I am not sure about whether I would like to lose control over how I apply the brakes with regards to front/rear, but as I haven't ridden one I cannot really comment as per my opening paragraph in this post.
The VFR you had on hire / loan would have had CBS brakes. It may not have been ABS, but certainly they were linked brakes.
Ahhh I see, you are talking about using ABS as part of normal riding? I don't, I ride 'normally' and think of the ABS as a safety net for when I screw up / child runs out* / gravel I did not see* to help catch a locked wheel.
No not normal riding, but emergencies. In emergency braking you need to know whether you have ABS or not. That's what the indicator light is for - however if, for example, the light isn't working, or you don't notice it, or you forget that its on, or the ABS fails mid-emergency (unlikely, admittedly), then you are in trouble - doubly so because there's no way to practise handling a locked wheel when the ABS is working. Ok maybe there's a fuse you can pull out...
As I stated previously, I think its a good idea and I'd choose to have it and hope it never fails, cos by then my dubious braking skills would be even worse!
ThEGr33k
09-04-09, 02:01 PM
Anyone tried it?
SoulKiss
09-04-09, 02:03 PM
The VFR you had on hire / loan would have had CBS brakes. It may not have been ABS, but certainly they were linked brakes.
Thanks mate - I had just about managed to blank that memory...... :smt072 :rolleyes::p:D
In that case, I dont think I even noticed it......
Alpinestarhero
09-04-09, 02:06 PM
My POV:
The reasons I'm against it are more mechanical than thinking I'm a Riding God; More to go wrong, harder to service, more weight, etc. I also can't think of any off I've had where it would have made the blindest bit of difference, still, I'm sure there are instances where it might be useful. I'd take it on a tourer/2-up bike any day, assuming the cost was only a couple of hundred pounds extra, but I'd not pay extra for it on a "fun" bike. At the same time, I'm not egotistical enough that I'd pay to get it removed if I bought a second hand bike that already had it on.
As to linked brakes: Front->Back linked = Generally a good thing.
When the reverse is also true, it can be bad during tight low speed turns. Fortunately BMW have realised this. Can't recall whether or not Hondas do, but the one I rode with linked brakes didn't appear to suffer from the problems associated with rear->front linking, so I'd assume they have.
Yea, i kinda agree here - I'm adverse to more stuff on my bike as I fear more to go wrong. My dad regularly encounters problems with ABS on cars, because it rarely gets activated so thinks get "stuck" and it either dosnt work at all, or works less efficiently.
However, I wouldnt say no to an ABS version of whatever bike I get next. If the price differance isnt too great, then I'll pay a bit mroe for added peace of mind.
No not normal riding, but emergencies. In emergency braking you need to know whether you have ABS or not. That's what the indicator light is for - however if, for example, the light isn't working, or you don't notice it, or you forget that its on, or the ABS fails mid-emergency (unlikely, admittedly), then you are in trouble - doubly so because there's no way to practise handling a locked wheel when the ABS is working. Ok maybe there's a fuse you can pull out...
As I stated previously, I think its a good idea and I'd choose to have it and hope it never fails, cos by then my dubious braking skills would be even worse!
If you ever start a ABS bike and the light does not turn on then assume that the system is not working.
ABS failing, well if it fails during riding, it should light up the LED.
If it fails during or at the point of a emergency brake then thats just unlucky.
In most cases (dry weather) the skid is initiated by the rider slamming on the front brakes, no fork preload makes the front wheel lock up far faster then ABS kicks in and stopping distance is increased but bike stays upright (unless he hit the object he hoped that the ABS would stop the bike before). If the rider can just put a little preload before the slam on the brakes then its likley that the front wheel will be less likley to skid and so less ABS interaction and shorter braking distance.
I still think that no learner should ever be allowed to learn on a ABS equipped bike.
Personaly I have got good feal for a skidding front wheel and keep it on the limit, this is not to say that i would not mind my bike having ABS that kicks in when all else fails.
Its actually "Advanced Braking System" on things such as the Blade and 600rr (im not sure about the others)
http://www.hondauk-media.co.uk/release/?release=976
Theres some info (With Diagrams:)) i havent read trough.
IIRC when the bloke where i work was explaining it to a customer last year who was about to take a hornet out, about the computer just looks at your normal braking e.g. pulling up to some red traffic lights you apply front brake it then thinks about it and applies pressure to the RR caliper but to only one piston, dont know if its the same amoungst all models though
Unfortuantly you wont be able to try it out on the 600rr or blade unless you buy one as honda have told all dealers they are not alowed to use the 600 and blade c-abs versions as demo's
yorkie_chris
09-04-09, 11:33 PM
Its actually "Advanced Braking System" on things such as the Blade and 600rr (im not sure about the others)
I doubt that h*nda using a different acronym makes much difference to the essence of the system.
Oh yeah, ABS won't stop you crashing if you grab the brakes banked over either.
I need to learn more about it what with only being "saturday boy" i dont get to go to meetings n stuff to learn about it :(
I doubt that h*nda using a different acronym makes much difference to the essence of the system.
The system honda have introduced is quite diffrent from the standard ABS systems we are used to.
From what ive read...
Forget anything under 5mph, as the system does not work in fully ECU actuated mode.
Over 5mph there is no direct action between the brake lever and calipers, instead your input pressure is sensed by a sensor and the bike applies the pressure to the brakes, it will monitor wheel lockup, but instead of letting off the brakes and reapplying it will modulate the braking power to prevent the lockup of the wheel, this leads to no ABS feedback to the user and a smoother stop.
The system is only combined electronicly, no longer as it was done previous.
Essentialy it now mimics what people have done for ages when they feal the front wheel skid they just let off some braking power.
If the system fails then actuators should fail open so its now a convential system.
fizzwheel
10-04-09, 09:22 AM
Unfortuantly you wont be able to try it out on the 600rr or blade unless you buy one as honda have told all dealers they are not alowed to use the 600 and blade c-abs versions as demo's
Thats completed retarded, how on earth can you evaluate a system such as this without being able to take the bike for a test ride.
the_lone_wolf
10-04-09, 09:34 AM
Thats completed retarded, how on earth can you evaluate a system such as this without being able to take the bike for a test ride.
because they don't want people effectively trying to crash by outsmarting their demo bikes and ending up in hedges...:smt044
Seggons
10-04-09, 09:50 AM
Some videos of the system being tested.
How it works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTc19PFAiXs
Track Review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlI_zTU7Gq8
Bruntingthorpe Test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6kO6ltk3a0
yorkie_chris
10-04-09, 11:45 AM
Where's the 4th one "Yes you can still crash"? :-P
Jamiebridges123
10-04-09, 05:24 PM
I'd only jump on one, drive it to the end of the road and then grab loads of front, and then after I haven't crashed, loads of rear brake to test the system!
because they don't want people effectively trying to crash by outsmarting their demo bikes and ending up in hedges...:smt044
Indeed, its just one of them things you'd try isnt it
I asked. You can test ride one.
My local Honda dealer had an option of either having the blade or the 600 with C-ABS and they opted for a blade C-ABS demonstrator and a standard 600 demonstrator. They said there's limited numbers in the country and out of the blade and 600, they thought the blade would be more likely to sell with ABS. They also said it'll be stupid to ask a customer to pay a grand for a system they never tried.
Really! is it solus honda dealer? The dealer i work at was told no along with many others, if i remember (which i prob wont :scratch:) i will ask why tommorrow but im sure he said no dealers were aloud one.
Also am i right in thinking your Kent area based?
=\
I remember my boss saying that he had some one on the phone saying they wanted to ride one but he said no because honda have said no demos, the the guy asked was it him sayin that and not honda, so unless the dealer you visited are being naughty or honda have changed their minds
Looks like Honda have aloud some dealers but didnt at 1s as there is only a small amount of the bikes in the country and they didnt want them all out as demo's
1k for abs **** that are they taking the ****.
I still think that no learner should ever be allowed to learn on a ABS equipped bike.
I learnt on a CB500 with ABS, dont see the issue, its never kicked in anyway even when doing emergency stops.
Infact I dont think I have ever locked up my front wheel in all the miles I have been riding and I dont really hang about.
They only benefit I can see is in the wet/commuting really
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