View Full Version : Massive road block - one way system
Massive Section 60 style road block on Queens Rd one way system , New Cross last night, they were pulling people about 5 cars at a time, people, mainly young , black guys, wre hauled out, and searched head to toe just about immediatley. Many cars impounded and a new R1, chap was unlucky, the main cop picking people stopped him, talked to him, looked at his reg plate ( legal size), but then pulled him ( bike went off on the back of a lorry). Many people were stopped in road by siad man and then let go....dk what the pull criteria was, maybe smelling for drugs / alcohol, also he had a radio so maybe people were being picked further up the raod, by the software theyve got....dk...anyway, they had picked me, but i did yhe best avoiding a pull move ever, i pulled into my garden, 2 yards before he could pull me in :cheers:
twas v hard to concentrate on CFC match with that going on outside...
any comments about how they target the people they pull...
Bluepete
29-04-09, 12:23 PM
ANPR.
Put it in Google and have a read
custard
29-04-09, 12:51 PM
ANPR - numerous hotlists ie no tax, insurance, MOT. the reg pings up on a computer having been read by a camera and they will nick you for relevant offence.
i realise that , but im fully legal on all those counts, course im illegal on a coupla other points, ie - letters too small on reg - but arent we all ..;)
Alpinestarhero
29-04-09, 01:21 PM
i realise that , but im fully legal on all those counts, course im illegal on a coupla other points, ie - letters too small on reg - but arent we all ..;)
noooo
ok, my exhaust is debaffled
but air-cooled harleys are louder than my bike
custard
29-04-09, 01:35 PM
tbh you may well get away with it. depends on the plod.
dont think they can impound for a noisy zorst or plate. but i could be wrong.
i got stopped in north yorks for cans and plate by a copper in a landy who turned out to be a biker. he gave the speil then gave me a stops form that should i get stopped by anyone else who aint bike friendly i could use as a get out of jail free card. ie yes officer i will change it once i get home, i am only here for the bankholiday... etc.
Thingus
29-04-09, 01:37 PM
noooo
ok, my exhaust is debaffled
but air-cooled harleys are louder than my bike
^ That's my most recent excuse ready and waiting.
Sid Squid
29-04-09, 03:06 PM
ANPR - numerous hotlists ie no tax, insurance, MOT. the reg pings up on a computer having been read by a camera and they will nick you for relevant offence.
You think?
Database is full of holes + system doesn't work properly - I have lengthy first hand experience of this.
Its my point really - it seemed some were being picked cos of how they looked, and some from the software , hence the radio....but what about me ? why was i picked ?
Ian - youve got pm
Grampian Police did a weekend operation targetting younger drivers, operation piston.
1400 drivers pulled in one weekend for speed offences, drug offence and anythign the ANPR could pull them for.
As I knew about this, I stayed off the road :)
custard
29-04-09, 05:45 PM
You think?
Database is full of holes + system doesn't work properly - I have lengthy first hand experience of this.
yup, i work in police intel (utter contradiction in terms but hey ho)
you are right though. unfortunately there are holes. makes my job an utter nightmare at times.
Jamiebridges123
29-04-09, 05:58 PM
If your exhaust does not have "not for road use with baffle removed" or, if it has the BSAU mark on the exhaust, it's legal, I'd guess..
Red Herring
29-04-09, 06:05 PM
yup, i work in police intel (utter contradiction in terms but hey ho)
you are right though. unfortunately there are holes. makes my job an utter nightmare at times.
Yeah to right there are holes.....usually caused by the persons in Police Intel:smt014
custard
29-04-09, 06:08 PM
really, how do you figure?
Thingus
29-04-09, 06:12 PM
If your exhaust does not have "not for road use with baffle removed" or, if it has the BSAU mark on the exhaust, it's legal, I'd guess..
Mine doesn't have that baffle nonsense on it :p but i'm pretty sure it ain't legal without the baffle.
Red Herring
29-04-09, 06:13 PM
really, how do you figure?
ANPR says no tax = check tax.
ANPR says no keeper = check PNC
ANPR says no insurance = speak to driver, ring insurance company, nick driver.
ANPR says involved in crime= ring relevant police intel unit, get put on hold for 1/2 hour, then get transferred twice (three times if it's the Met), then speak to someone who tells you it's not their case, then get cut off when they try and put you through to someone else. Need I say more?
fizzwheel
29-04-09, 06:16 PM
it seemed some were being picked cos of how they looked,
They probably were picked for that reason.
I got stopped 3 days after buying my GSXR in the p*ssing rain with an iridium visor on and no baffle in my can.
Copper checked my license, that I had tax and insurance apologised for delaying my ride, explained it was a random stop checking for tax & insurance and gave me a bit of paper to explain in more detail why he'd stopped me and then wished me an enjoyable rest of my ride and let me go on my way. Not one word said about, visor or can, I was surprised about the visor because it was p*ssing down and I was begining to think I oughta find somewhere to stop and put my clear on one.
Sometimes IMHO it just is random...
custard
29-04-09, 06:16 PM
lol. ring intel? if its suspected used in crime its probably come from PNC which is nothing to do with intel.
are you old bill or just some who had the misfortune to speak to the metpol intel?
Red Herring
29-04-09, 06:20 PM
lol. ring intel? if its suspected used in crime its probably come from PNC which is nothing to do with intel.
are you old bill or just some who had the misfortune to speak to the metpol intel?
Might be......;)
Sir Trev
30-04-09, 11:37 AM
We've got warning notices up saying there will be a random census on the exit to the business park all day. Deep joy. The one way out for about five thousand people is clogged solid on a normal night, never mind adding cones and stupid questions on top of it...
yorkie_chris
30-04-09, 04:01 PM
There was some census thing here a while ago, right pain in the rse they were stopping everyone, had to go up and round a load of little sidestreets to get round the buggers.
Thingus
30-04-09, 06:04 PM
Slightly off-topic... but i had to wait 5 minutes just pretending to clean my (soaking wet) gear and bike while a police bike filled up with fuel... baffle out is making me paranoid with threads like this :p
Red Herring
30-04-09, 11:00 PM
Slightly off-topic... but i had to wait 5 minutes just pretending to clean my (soaking wet) gear and bike while a police bike filled up with fuel... baffle out is making me paranoid with threads like this :p
Just wait until he is in the process of filling up and then ride off, giving it a big handful as you pass him. What's he going to do, ride off after you without paying?
I was in a petrol station in Corby the other day, and a local copper on a DRZ400 Police bike was telling me they insist he removes his lid before filling up. I told him they must think coppers are more untrustworthy than the general public because they never ask me to.
Thingus
01-05-09, 07:09 AM
Just wait until he is in the process of filling up and then ride off, giving it a big handful as you pass him. What's he going to do, ride off after you without paying?
Check my plate? I dunno, i doubt he cared but they must know more about bikes than the usual plod. After he went i was just pulling out of the car park and a police Astra passed me and i didn't care, i guess it's just the fact that it was a biker.
I was in a petrol station in Corby the other day, and a local copper on a DRZ400 Police bike was telling me they insist he removes his lid before filling up. I told him they must think coppers are more untrustworthy than the general public because they never ask me to.
:smt081 Probably put him in a bad mood!
Sir Trev
01-05-09, 12:06 PM
Stockley Park census update:
As expected the census caused a real holdup at home time last night. The only two bright spots were: the temporary layby of cones was full of cars being interrogated (sorry, questioned) about where they were heading and I got to drive past, and, the bike cop there to stop the victims (sorry, respondants) was hillarious. He was one of those slightly pompous types who was strutting around with his chest out whilst almost snarling at everyone, looking INCREDIBLY important in his day-glo jacket and white traffic hat. Trouble is he had obviously spent a great deal of time at Dunkin' Donuts and was almost spherical - just two spindly legs in tight leather poking out from underneath a very badly fitting but pulled-in-tight jacket. A great advert for the Boys in Blue - not.
I'll probably get stopped tonight now....
would custard or any other boys in blue like to comment on whether i was right in saying it was section 60 - means they have temp powers to stop n search anyone , but partuicularly young black n asian folk :rolleyes: - or section 44 - report in peper how these anti- terror powers are being abused to pick on young black n asian folk :rolleyes:...
im not having a go at you btw ....
custard
01-05-09, 08:06 PM
not a copper me self, just a civilian minion...
i think section 60 is power to stop... but it is anyone...
its always the way. statitical lies (research) showed that most crime at one time was commited by black males. what do you think happened...
Red Herring
02-05-09, 07:48 AM
Check my plate? I dunno, i doubt he cared but they must know more about bikes than the usual plod. After he went i was just pulling out of the car park and a police Astra passed me and i didn't care, i guess it's just the fact that it was a biker.
:smt081 Probably put him in a bad mood!
That's about a 50/50 split between as a biker he may know more about bike law, but as a biker he may be more flexible towards another biker.....
There was a day when police motorcyclists were bikers first, coppers second. Nowadays they seem to give bikes to just about anyone who can wobble round a few cones.
Sid Squid
02-05-09, 09:27 AM
ANPR says no insurance = speak to driver, ring insurance company, nick driver.
Is this truly your attitude? You've already acknowledged the flaws in the system but it appears you don't care.
Care to explain?
instigator
02-05-09, 10:37 AM
Is this truly your attitude? You've already acknowledged the flaws in the system but it appears you don't care.
Care to explain?
Do they actually ring the driver?
With the amount of times I swap bikes and change my insurance policy, there is always 24-48 hours until their database is updated and I won't have proof until I get it through the post! So they would ring up the insurer would they? I'd hope so...
P.S Off out on firestorm that I know is insured as of 2 hours ago but won't be on their database yet. Ho hum
Red Herring
02-05-09, 04:12 PM
Is this truly your attitude? You've already acknowledged the flaws in the system but it appears you don't care.
Care to explain?
ANPR systems rely on a download from the MID (Motor Insurance Database) that is generally provided on a monthly basis. The list on the database is made up of vehicles that were insured by the industry (hence they know the registration numbers) but are no longer shoen with a current policy.
When the system gets a match a good one will then automatically do a cross check against the PNC (Police National Computer) which has a live link to the MID and thus gets the up to date position. If the vehicle is still shown as uninsured it should get a tug. Some systems don't do the PNC check automatically in which case the officer needs to stop the vehicle and do the check themself.
If there is no insurance shown on the MID then the officer should speak to the driver/rider to find out why. Sometimes the vehicle is covered by a company or trader policy in which case the details may not be on the MID, sometimes they may be driving/riding on the 3rd party extension to another policy. If they claim to have insurance issued to the vehicle then generally a phone call goes into the insurance company (depending on the time of the stop) to check out the story. Sometimes it's as simple as the insurance company have the wrong registration number (typo or misheard over phone) but 9 times out of 10 it's because the driver didn't keep up the payments on their policy and it's been cancelled, hence my comment.
Is that a good enough explanation?
I was in a petrol station in Corby the other day, and a local copper on a DRZ400 Police bike was telling me they insist he removes his lid before filling up. I told him they must think coppers are more untrustworthy than the general public because they never ask me to.
Dont they normally have flipfront helmets aswell? so they can talk to people straight away without faffing with helmets.
Some garages have some funny ideas lol
Red Herring
02-05-09, 04:52 PM
Do they actually ring the driver?
With the amount of times I swap bikes and change my insurance policy, there is always 24-48 hours until their database is updated and I won't have proof until I get it through the post! So they would ring up the insurer would they? I'd hope so...
P.S Off out on firestorm that I know is insured as of 2 hours ago but won't be on their database yet. Ho hum
You'd be surprised just how quickly it is updated. Go on Askmid.com and type in your reg number if you're not sure.
fizzwheel
02-05-09, 07:43 PM
I'll probably get stopped tonight now....
What would happen if you refused to stop or refused to take part in the census ?
Red Herring
02-05-09, 10:30 PM
You are required to stop as the person doing the stopping is a police officer, however you are not obliged to take part in the census and if you don't want to you should say so and they should then let you continue your journey.
instigator
03-05-09, 09:44 AM
You'd be surprised just how quickly it is updated. Go on Askmid.com and type in your reg number if you're not sure.
I have done. It's still not there.
For my hornet, it took 4 days to shown up on the MID. The Ins. company said it can take up to 10!
Ginger 1
05-05-09, 08:52 AM
Stockley Park census update:
As expected the census caused a real holdup at home time last night.
I'll probably get stopped tonight now....
Yeah I did see that as I went flying passed on the silver curvy! Joys of biking eh?
yorkie_chris
05-05-09, 12:18 PM
A
If there is no insurance shown on the MID then the officer should speak to the driver/rider to find out why. Sometimes the vehicle is covered by a company or trader policy in which case the details may not be on the MID, sometimes they may be driving/riding on the 3rd party extension to another policy. If they claim to have insurance issued to the vehicle then generally a phone call goes into the insurance company (depending on the time of the stop) to check out the story. Sometimes it's as simple as the insurance company have the wrong registration number (typo or misheard over phone) but 9 times out of 10 it's because the driver didn't keep up the payments on their policy and it's been cancelled, hence my comment.
Is that a good enough explanation?
Do they not give producers any more?
Bluepete
05-05-09, 01:11 PM
Do they not give producers any more?
Sometimes. Nights when the insurance co's aren't open to check, the MIB line gets very busy sometimes too. Sometimes, we believe you have insurance and give you a HORT/1. Of course, sometimes we get twirled, and there isn't insurance, but you still get the summons to court.
I got stopped on sun morning, pulled over by the local merseyside police driving the wife,s company car, first question,
''is this your car sir ?''
'' no its my wifes company car''
there then followed a lengthy question and answer session which included the following gems
''and when was the last time you where arrested by merseyside police''
and
''by the way, where are we ?''
''er, its on the tom tom on your dashboard officer''
''oh right, Im from bromborough you see'' :rolleyes:
anyway, give him due he was ok, although he did drop into the convo that he could have the car impounded on the spot if necessary and that he didnt seem to beleive it was a company car, got a producer and just waiting for the wife to bring home the cert of insurance.
ThEGr33k
05-05-09, 01:46 PM
I think its all good if they dont take the **** with using your time and People dont get impounded/crushed without propper justification! :rolleyes:
yorkie_chris
05-05-09, 10:13 PM
It's the impounding thing that really seems like a $hit do. Does it mean they could impound it without proof of any offence?
Presumably if they did you would still be liable for the release fee despite there being no case to answer...
ThEGr33k
05-05-09, 10:17 PM
It's the impounding thing that really seems like a $hit do. Does it mean they could impound it without proof of any offence?
Presumably if they did you would still be liable for the release fee despite there being no case to answer...
Would be interesting to see if you could "do them" for it? Thing is the only thing they could really do the average motorist on that could be wrong is insurance as you should have tax and most people have licence on them... id guess. :rolleyes:
yorkie_chris
05-05-09, 10:21 PM
Yeah and insurance is the one that is open to c0ckups with computers not having changes listed etc.
Red Herring
06-05-09, 07:50 AM
As I said before it's never a good idea to rely solely on the computer, however when 9 times out of 10 it is later shown to be right most coppers do tend to get a little cynical. Clearly some effective questioning can be useful as well, for example:
Have you got any ID on you?
Eh, no officer, I don't carry a wallet.
How about a credit card or something like that with your name on?
I don't have a credit card.
OK, how long have you owned this vehicle?
Oh I've only just bought it.
That's great, who did you insure it with?
I can't remember.
Oh right, can you remember how much you paid for the insurance?
Eh no, I did it on line last night.
Really, and how did you pay for it then if you don't have a credit card?
Eh, my mate did it for me on his.
That was nice of him, and did you tell the insurance company that you've been done six months ago for driving without any insurance and you only have a provisional licence?
Eh, no, should I have.......
I'm sure you get the drift. I'm also sure mistakes do get made and it must be really irritating for the person involved, however i also know that they are extremely rare if the job is done properly and with all the dodgy documents flying around I've yet to hear anyone suggest an effective alternative. Those who still think a copper should believe anything they are shown on the street are living in cloud cuckoo land and it's no good giving a producer out either, they'll just produce the dodgy documents at the police station where some poor front counter clerk will go "OK fine" and send them on their way.
yorkie_chris
06-05-09, 05:37 PM
But impounding someones car/bike and them having to pay out £100+ to get their own property back is far far worse. Basically state sponsored robbery.
As far as I'm aware if that happens then you've got no recourse to get your 100 nicker back, even though no offence has been committed.
Happened to a friend of mine, car was towed after being broken into, fair enough towing it might have saved some scroat from having a pi$$ through the window... but it cost him in the region of £120. He didn't ask them to move it, and they would have seriously struggled to do £120 of damage to that motor!
Red Herring
06-05-09, 09:55 PM
But impounding someones car/bike and them having to pay out £100+ to get their own property back is far far worse. Basically state sponsored robbery.
As far as I'm aware if that happens then you've got no recourse to get your 100 nicker back, even though no offence has been committed.
Happened to a friend of mine, car was towed after being broken into, fair enough towing it might have saved some scroat from having a pi$$ through the window... but it cost him in the region of £120. He didn't ask them to move it, and they would have seriously struggled to do £120 of damage to that motor!
Hang on, that's a slight derail there. It's one thing for the police to incur you a big bill when trying to safeguard your property, and we could start another whole debate on that, but this is about the police trying to do something effective to try and stop the thousands of uninsured and unlicenced drivers who are running around on our roads. As I said earlier, nobody has yet suggested a viable alternative to their current policy of seizing vehicles they believe are uninsured. There are steps you can take to make sure mistakes aren't made, so take them and help solve the problem rather than becoming part of it.
yorkie_chris
06-05-09, 09:58 PM
Simple.
If a vehicle is seized for "having no insurance" and it later comes to light that no crime has been committed and the vehicle is perfectly road legal then the impound yard should waive their fee.
Yeah carrying your cover note about with you all the time might help, but you really shouldn't have to worry about such things if you're within the law.
Red Herring
06-05-09, 10:08 PM
My experience is that when a vehicle is seized in error then the owner/driver does not eventually end up out of pocket. There have been a number of occasions where the insurance company has accepted responsibility (there are industry requirements around them updating the MID and they can be liable if they fail to meet them) and others where the police force involved has reimbursed the fee.
To be clear - what your saying is...if youve just insured your vehicle, say in the last 2 or 3 days, you need to carryaround some proof with you (if youve got any, prob wont have arrived yet), because the computers may not have been updated and the bill will seize the car / bike first , and ask questions later ( i mean, they assume the worst )....
Paul the 6th
07-05-09, 10:44 AM
i realise that , but im fully legal on all those counts, course im illegal on a coupla other points, ie - letters too small on reg - but arent we all ..;)
they also check for things which aren't on computer such as tread depth on your tyres, baffuffles in exhaust, is the exhaust even e-marked, e-marked indicators/lights etc...
Red Herring
07-05-09, 10:33 PM
To be clear - what your saying is...if youve just insured your vehicle, say in the last 2 or 3 days, you need to carryaround some proof with you (if youve got any, prob wont have arrived yet), because the computers may not have been updated and the bill will seize the car / bike first , and ask questions later ( i mean, they assume the worst )....
They should ask questions at the time, just make sure you have some believable answers. If you've just bought it have the receipt with you, if you transfered a policy from your previous car/bike have the old certificate with the policy details on you, or at least know the reg number so they can look it up. Know the name of the insurance company you took the policy out with, if you did it on line print out the receipt, they're all simple obvious steps that genuine persons know the answers to, liars don't.
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