View Full Version : Blade Vs Sp1
fizzwheel
04-05-09, 01:45 PM
Following on from a conversation developing in this thread
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?p=1893899#post1893899
So which bike would have it... and why...
sp1 a better chasis and vtwin grunt twisty track youd have it i reckon.
oh fizz i think you should say what year blade though the new one would probably destroy the sp1.
philbut
04-05-09, 02:02 PM
The blade was the bike I always wanted as a kid. I'd have the 1998 in red and white I think (infact i almost bought one instead of the 7R). I don't know about the SP1 enough to comment really, other than the obvious - V2, high spec bouncy bits etc. they are also lovely looking bikes.
I imagine for all out performance an SP1 would beat a blade of the same era, but for an all rounder I'd pick the blade for usability.
fizzwheel
04-05-09, 02:03 PM
oh fizz i think you should say what year blade though the new one would probably destroy the sp1.
Hovis' blade I cant remember the precise year his bike is though.
01 is it summat around that bout same age as the sp i think which is fair.
markmoto
04-05-09, 02:25 PM
on the road the blade would have it i recon due to its rider friendlyness, on the track i think it would be closer i wouldnt like to call it but i think it would be close..
oh fizz i think you should say what year blade though the new one would probably destroy the sp1.
01 is it summat around that bout same age as the sp i think which is fair.
the bikes are........ 2003 blade Vs a 2001 sp1
the blade would win
it is 30kg lighter, it has 20 more BHP and has faster top end of about 15MPH
davepreston
04-05-09, 02:36 PM
neither there hondas :(
gsxr :)
Dave20046
04-05-09, 02:39 PM
it is 30kg lighter,
Have you factored beerbellys into consideration?
Bluefish
04-05-09, 02:39 PM
don't the red ones go faster though :D
don't know about the sp 1 but i know a man with a sp 2 his mate is into blades and the only one that can pull away from the sp2 is his new 08 blade
and that is from the blade owner
thefallenangel
04-05-09, 04:11 PM
the bikes are........ 2003 blade Vs a 2001 sp1
the blade would win
it is 30kg lighter, it has 20 more BHP and has faster top end of about 15MPH
Is that including you having to shut your pillion seat every 10 seconds?
Jamiebridges123
04-05-09, 04:13 PM
The SP has to stop for fuel every 10 seconds so a Blade would surely be quicker. ;)
Alpinestarhero
04-05-09, 05:53 PM
SP1. Its HRC built (essentially). It is a big, stinkin' V-twin. It has gear driven cam shafts. Its loud. Its throbby. Its more exclusive than the 'blade. Joey dunlop won his last big-bike TT on one. Colin edwards won the world superbike championship on one (and on its similar successor, the SP-2, in what were areguably the two greatest WSBK races of all time at imola in 2002 against bayliss). Valentino Rossi was part of a team to win the suzuki 8 hours on one. It looks awesome - those exhuasts which taper inwards towards the tail section its a great bit of detail in the design.
SP1. Its HRC built (essentially). It is a big, stinkin' V-twin. It has gear driven cam shafts. Its loud. Its throbby. Its more exclusive than the 'blade. Joey dunlop won his last big-bike TT on one. Colin edwards one the world superbike championship on one (and on its similar successor, the SP-2, in what were areguably the two greatest WSBK races of all time at imola in 2002 against bayliss). Valentino Rossi was part of a team to win the suzuki 8 hours on one. It looks awesome - those exhuasts which taper inwards towards the tail section its a great bit of detail in the design.
I have no idea which is quicker, but I vote SP1 after all that ^^^^^ above lol
That is a damn sexy looking bike.
SP1 for sure...I've seen how quick the firestorms go and the SP1 is better so :thumbsup:! :)
fizzwheel
04-05-09, 06:34 PM
SP1. Its HRC built (essentially). It is a big, stinkin' V-twin. It has gear driven cam shafts. Its loud. Its throbby. Its more exclusive than the 'blade. Joey dunlop won his last big-bike TT on one. Colin edwards one the world superbike championship on one (and on its similar successor, the SP-2, in what were areguably the two greatest WSBK races of all time at imola in 2002 against bayliss). Valentino Rossi was part of a team to win the suzuki 8 hours on one. It looks awesome - those exhuasts which taper inwards towards the tail section its a great bit of detail in the design.
Matt - Did you read the original thread, we're not talking about which is the sexiest or most desirable bike...
We're we talking about which bike was the faster. i.e the same rider, the same weather conditions, over the same section of road, against the clock which bike would cover the section of road the quickest.
Matt - Did you read the original thread, we're not talking about which is the sexiest or most desirable bike...
We're we talking about which bike was the faster. i.e the same rider, the same weather conditions, over the same section of road, against the clock which bike would cover the section of road the quickest.
Nobody on this forum will know that unless they have actually done it........which 99% wont have
Extra bhp and a slightly higher top end equates to nothing in a scenario like you describe above.
Alpinestarhero
04-05-09, 06:40 PM
Woops, sorry fizz...i guess my initial reply is a reflection of what the SP-1 / SP-2 means to me. Its not just a bike, but memories and history.
Anyway, 2001 SP-1 vs. 2003 blade....depends on the situation. Blade faster in town (smoother engine low down in the rev range I presume, less snatchy throttle, slightly better riding position) but I think an SP1 would be potentialy much faster on a sweeping country road where its torquey engine, lack of outright power (yes, lack off...less power to be scared of so more confident to use it) and much more lazier delivery encourage the rider to keep the bike in one gear for longer, concentrating on being smooth and stringing a set of corners together efficiently
fizzwheel
04-05-09, 06:46 PM
Nobody on this forum will know that unless they have actually done it........which 99% wont have
I know that to, but IMHO it makes for an intersting discussion though does it not ?
Zombie Jesus
04-05-09, 06:47 PM
The blade would be faster in a straight line and on public roads. On the track would come down to rider preference, all things else being equal. Hard to tell what my preference would be, a trackday and a set of lap times for each bike would be the best way to tell.
Alpinestarhero
04-05-09, 06:47 PM
I know that to, but IMHO it makes for an intersting discussion though does it not ?
that it does, and I'd love to test both machines back to back down the A26 or A24 and hope that I discover the SP-1 IS better :smt055
what is it they say about hero's and meeting them......?
i think i may look at test riding a SP1
i could just see if my mate wants to swap for a bit, but i would be a worried as its not mine
fizzwheel
04-05-09, 06:56 PM
So the blade is lighter and makes more power
The SP1 has a power delivery that allows you to get on the throttle earlier and drive the bike out the corner.
When they let Litre IL4's race Twins in Superbikes the 4's whooped the a*rse of the twin until Ducati squealed so much they got a capacity upgrade.
Is there an argument that the SP1 is to track focused to make a good roadbike ?
I think the SP1 would have out of and into corners, but on something more sweeping I reckon the blade would be reiging the SP1 back in again...
whats the 0-60 on both bikes
whats the 0-60 on both bikes
Is that a joke lol........0 - 60 is completely insignificant in track or road riding. Riding at a good pace you will rarely be under 60.
Alpinestarhero
04-05-09, 07:15 PM
So the blade is lighter and makes more power
The SP1 has a power delivery that allows you to get on the throttle earlier and drive the bike out the corner.
When they let Litre IL4's race Twins in Superbikes the 4's whooped the a*rse of the twin until Ducati squealed so much they got a capacity upgrade.
Is there an argument that the SP1 is to track focused to make a good roadbike ?
I think the SP1 would have out of and into corners, but on something more sweeping I reckon the blade would be reiging the SP1 back in again...
Some good points there Fizz. I think the SP1 is quite track focused, but the media report that, compared to its rivals (duke 916 / 996 / 998, Aprillia mille) is wasnt as focused. Although tha tiny tiny screen might make you question that :lol:
The IL4's ruled on track because of the outright power advantage I think. Bayliss was still doing the business on the 999 wasn't he? The V-twin was still a usable package on the track, except on the straight bits.
whats the 0-60 on both bikes
i guess about the same?
-3 secs
Is that a joke lol........0 - 60 is completely insignificant in track or road riding. Riding at a good pace you will rarely be under 60.
actually it's highly relevant round the corner's unless you just go on motorway's :rolleyes:
ThEGr33k
04-05-09, 11:15 PM
it is 30kg lighter
I think the 30KG's is a little OTT. The claimed dry weight of 168kg on a 954 imo is most likely utter rubbish. Especially when the R6's curb weight is 198kg inc fuel. 17L being about 12KG's, making a dry weight of about 185kg's...
Not that there is much point arguing about weight as on a well set up bike it wont make that much odd's on the road.
The blade would be faster in a straight line and on public roads. On the track would come down to rider preference, all things else being equal. Hard to tell what my preference would be, a trackday and a set of lap times for each bike would be the best way to tell.
I'd agree with this. Its pretty hard to say either way. All down to what each like I suppose.
markmoto
04-05-09, 11:19 PM
at the end of the day its academic they are both great looking quick bikes who gives a stuff which is fastest? in the real world most would take the blade as its the better all rounder. and the motors a peach.
yorkie_chris
04-05-09, 11:54 PM
Even though they're both h*ndas I reckon both would be rapid enough. Basically the only thing able to leave you behind if totally committed to stupidity would be an equally committed rider on a GSXR of course...
Anyway, 2001 SP-1 vs. 2003 blade....depends on the situation. Blade faster in town (smoother engine low down in the rev range I presume, less snatchy throttle, slightly better riding position) but I think an SP1 would be potentialy much faster on a sweeping country road where its torquey engine, lack of outright power (yes, lack off...less power to be scared of so more confident to use it) and much more lazier delivery encourage the rider to keep the bike in one gear for longer, concentrating on being smooth and stringing a set of corners together efficiently
Or perhaps there would be no incentive to get the bike in the right gear because of this.
If you keep any motor on the boil, you don't get that scary rush of power because you're already in the power and hence only get the power you ask for with the throttle.
Have a look at the power curve of the highly tuned V twins of the time, RC51, TLR etc. They're pretty comparable to IL4 power delivery anyway, rather than the huge bottom end of the milder tuned ones like the TLS.
It's not like big IL4s are short of torque.
I reckon the bl*de would have it.
lukemillar
05-05-09, 12:11 AM
So the blade is lighter and makes more power
The SP1 has a power delivery that allows you to get on the throttle earlier and drive the bike out the corner.
But this comes back to the rider i.e a twin has to be ridden differently to a 4. There is no rule which say you must exit the corner at 7k rpm.
The blade has a bigger top end, but depending on where you ride it, it may not matter. If we say ran the test at somewhere like Brands Indy, I doubt outright power would make a huge difference. Here in NZ club racing, they have 750s and 1L competing in the same class! I know that it isn't quite the same because the 750 is lighter, but just to illustarate that the 20 extra hp isn't the end of the discussion.
That said, I still think the blade would win, but I think it would be pretty close.
When they let Litre IL4's race Twins in Superbikes the 4's whooped the a*rse of the twin until Ducati squealed so much they got a capacity upgrade.
A well designed litre 4 will always produce more power than a well designed litre twin as it will have more available valve area, so can get more air/fuel in.
Is there an argument that the SP1 is to track focused to make a good roadbike ?
Yes, it is awful. The suspension is far too hard, the radiators cook you and the fueling is poor. Add to that the massive fuel consumption, tiny tank and distressing comfort levels that you expect with a race bike you have a huge compromise for a road bike. The Blade on pretty much any road would be faster and much much easier to ride. The SP1 might be quicker on a smooth track but I'd still be on the Blade.
MT
Nobody on this forum will know that unless they have actually done it........which 99% wont have.
I have.
See here: http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=77596&highlight=blade
Not that there is much point arguing about weight as on a well set up bike it wont make that much odd's on the road.
Yeah it will. Weight is inversely proportional to acceleration. It also has the same effect on the deceleration, ie you can brake quicker on a lighter bike.
A well designed litre 4 will always produce more power than a well designed litre twin as it will have more available valve area, so can get more air/fuel in.
Much as I love twins, this is true. Quite simply a superior engine design if peak power is your goal.
Geoffrey
05-05-09, 11:38 AM
sp1 for the chassis, but the fireblade engine is the better (as standard)
ThEGr33k
05-05-09, 11:50 AM
A well designed litre 4 will always produce more power than a well designed litre twin as it will have more available valve area, so can get more air/fuel in.
Indeed... Though the 999R wasen't that far off tbh. Massive bore tiny stroke and a true 140bhp at the wheel on the road. Not that far behind the 150-160 of the IL4's.
Yeah it will. Weight is inversely proportional to acceleration. It also has the same effect on the deceleration, ie you can brake quicker on a lighter bike.
I didnt say it wouldn't be noticed, I said it wouldn't make much odd's. Look at Motogp for instance, Pedro vs any othere rider... many KG's in it, but not much of a help quite often.
actually it's highly relevant round the corner's unless you just go on motorway's :rolleyes:
Do you stop at every corner :confused: very odd
Do you stop at every corner :confused: very odd
no but at some point you have to start a bike moving you dont instantly start at 80 mph ****in hell that would be a good trick :rolleyes:
no but at some point you have to start a bike moving you dont instantly start at 80 mph ****in hell that would be a good trick :rolleyes:
So for that ONE initial standing start.....the first 3 seconds...... where the bikes 0-60 times are 0.1 different makes all the difference
0 - 60 means bugger all in real terms, road or track riding. Now 30 - 70 or 50 - 120 roll on maybe;)
So for that ONE initial standing start.....the first 3 seconds...... where the bikes 0-60 times are 0.1 different makes all the difference
0 - 60 means bugger all in real terms, road or track riding. Now 30 - 70 or 50 - 120 roll on maybe;)
it might make the difference between who gets into the first corner though so for that it would make a difference :thumbsup:
actually it's highly relevant round the corner's unless you just go on motorway's :rolleyes:
no but at some point you have to start a bike moving you dont instantly start at 80 mph ****in hell that would be a good trick :rolleyes:
it might make the difference between who gets into the first corner though so for that it would make a difference :thumbsup:
But you said 0-60 was relevant round the corners? :smt042
But you said 0-60 was relevant through the corners? :smt042
](*,)[-(
PAPPACLART
05-05-09, 07:38 PM
The Blade in most situations would win. The 954 is Ballistic (I have ridden one) and is faster in any gear at any speed - and that includes the bottom end too.
The SP1 is a great basis for a race bike but in road trim it is 30kgs too heav, revs too low and suspension is way too harsh for the road so it only really excels on a smooth track where the Blade is exceptional at both, road and track!! Also not gorgetting how easy the Blade is to ride, where the RC with it's awkward riding positioin, and jerky fuleing make corner exits somewhat difficult.
As for 0-60, that is down to the rider for any bike above a 600 though just to note, the SP1 does about 65mph in first gear, and when the SP1 changes into 2nd, the Blade will still be in 1st at which point it will overtake the SP1 providing both were matched to 60mph.
The Blade is a better bike in probably every aspect.
vBulletin® , Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.