Power Commander any good?

[sv650jay]

are the power commanders worth the money? i have read all the wonderful stuf it can do like make ya bike more economical and gives extra bhp but does it work?

[hovis]

not on an SV (aparantly)

[Paul the 6th]

sv1000 is rough as a bag of gravel below 3k revs - apparently a PC3 will sort this out but there's no such issue with the 650.

If you get a full exhaust system and mess with various other bits like cams & air filter etc.... I'd imagine a PC3 would help get the engine running in harmony with all these bits :)

[sv650jay]

thanks for the reply guys, i have a laser deep tone system on the bike, i just like playing and adding things to the bike so was just intrested when i seen this, my mate has one on his gixer, so the spoilt kid syndrome come out, "if he has one i want one" lol. so am i thinking the 200 od quid it will cost me for this thing wont really be worth it?

[fizzwheel]

so am i thinking the 200 od quid it will cost me for this thing wont really be worth it?

My thoughts also.

If you want it remapped so it runs better, go to a tuning place that can use a Yoshi box to remap your standard ECU, the end result is the same but its cheaper to do...

Do a search IIRC its been covered a few times.

[sv650jay]

i will search for that now, thanks for replys.

[SoulKiss]

thanks for the reply guys, i have a laser deep tone system on the bike, i just like playing and adding things to the bike so was just intrested when i seen this, my mate has one on his gixer, so the spoilt kid syndrome come out, "if he has one i want one" lol. so am i thinking the 200 od quid it will cost me for this thing wont really be worth it?

According to all the guys over at the Power-Rangers-Power-Commander Forum it makes your willy 6" longer.........

[sv650jay]

i best get one then :)

[sv650jay]

the more research i do the more it seems that.... the only + of the powecommander is to remap ya bike after puttin a exhaust system on with out actually modifying the ecu so therefore you can unplug it and put the bike back to standard so therefore wont affect any warranty. is this correct?

[yorkie_chris]

You can flash the ECU back to standard settings as well.

With a PC3 you'll still need to pay out for dyno time to set it up.

[metalmonkey]

the more research i do the more it seems that.... the only + of the powecommander is to remap ya bike after puttin a exhaust system on with out actually modifying the ecu so therefore you can unplug it and put the bike back to standard so therefore wont affect any warranty. is this correct?

Dude your bike is an 04, I would just remap as the wiser have suggest or spend it on petrol or beer, which I am doing as I type.

[G]

There an article in I THINK performance bikes (one of the ones that not wrapped so can be read in WHsmiths ;))this month.

They tested

Standard systems
End can
End can with PCIII
Full systems
Full systems with PCIII

It really is worth a read.

In summary in nearly all cases the standard can gave best performance (you would expect it to really seen as they spent millions developing it)

The only setup to give more power and better top end was the FULL system with PCIII but in every case it had a detrimental effect elsewhere in the power delivery.

[yorkie_chris]

Except a full system will also save about half the bikes weight when you get rid of the catalytic convertor on a new bike!

[pencil shavings]

There an article in I THINK performance bikes (one of the ones that not wrapped so can be read in WHsmiths ;))this month.

They tested

Standard systems
End can
End can with PCIII
Full systems
Full systems with PCIII

It really is worth a read.

In summary in nearly all cases the standard can gave best performance (you would expect it to really seen as they spent millions developing it)

The only setup to give more power and better top end was the FULL system with PCIII but in every case it had a detrimental effect elsewhere in the power delivery.

What about getting it mapped for mid range?

that little dip in power just before 9000rpm could do with being ironed out!

[G]

Except a full system will also save about half the bikes weight when you get rid of the catalytic convertor on a new bike!

Very true :) My end can alone saved over 5kg

[yorkie_chris]

You can't map for midrange.
You either get the carburetion right, or you don't.

It could be that with less backpressure from a proper exhaust that the cams are too hot, or not hot enough. Or the stock filter is too restrictive. Or any number of things...

[pencil shavings]

You can't map for midrange.
You either get the carburetion right, or you don't.

It could be that with less backpressure from a proper exhaust that the cams are too hot, or not hot enough. Or the stock filter is too restrictive. Or any number of things...

I have a pointy ;) So I hope there is nothing wrong with carbs on my bike :-s

[sv650jay]

I have a pointy ;) So I hope there is nothing wrong with carbs on my bike :-s

yer thats the one thing i never have problems with on my pointy, good reliable carbs lol

[yorkie_chris]

carburetion (plural carburetions (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/carburetions))


The process, such as occurs in a carburetor (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/carburetor), of mixing fuel with oxygen or air in appropriate proportion for combustion (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/combustion).

An injection system mixes fuel and air in appropriate proportions for combustion, does it not?

[Red Herring]

My 650 has a full system and K&N filter and having just fitted a PC3 I can confirm it does smooth out the power deliver, especially when on part throttle/high revs. They did manage to find a few extra BHP with all the dyno work but still a very expensive option over remapping the standard ECU. Of course one thing the PC3 does allow is for you to run a quickshifter.

[yorkie_chris]

You don't need a PC3 to use a quickshifter.

[stevebetts]

sv1000 is rough as a bag of gravel below 3k revs - apparently a PC3 will sort this out but there's no such issue with the 650.

If you get a full exhaust system and mess with various other bits like cams & air filter etc.... I'd imagine a PC3 would help get the engine running in harmony with all these bits :)
Cant understand your comment about the rough running below 3K Paul.
Mine is fine.
I have a full system and BMC air filter, but no power commander.
Have you checked your TPS?

[yorkie_chris]

TB balance won't help the low speed running either.

[pencil shavings]

carburetion (plural carburetions (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/carburetions))


The process, such as occurs in a carburetor (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/carburetor), of mixing fuel with oxygen or air in appropriate proportion for combustion (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/combustion).
An injection system mixes fuel and air in appropriate proportions for combustion, does it not?

I did not know that was the term, I stand corrected :smt003

However, I was under the impression that the power curve could be smoothed with a Dyno to get rid of the dips. Am I mistaken?

[Paul the 6th]

Cant understand your comment about the rough running below 3K Paul.
Mine is fine.
I have a full system and BMC air filter, but no power commander.
Have you checked your TPS?


Apparently it's a 'characteristic' of the 1000 motor due to emissions regs. It's not jerky or snatchy, just feels gravelly/extra vibey below 2.5-3k revs. A full system could well fix it :)

[yorkie_chris]

I did not know that was the term, I stand corrected :smt003

However, I was under the impression that the power curve could be smoothed with a Dyno to get rid of the dips. Am I mistaken?

Kinda.

A dyno does nothing to change a bike at all. It's simply a tool which measures the (in the case of a dynojet dyno) acceleration of a big f##koff steel drum. This gives you a "torque curve" and from that a "power curve" with respect to engine rpm (when done properly, some others give you it with respect to mph, which isn't much use)

Most dynos are linked to an exhaust gas analyzer, which can tell you something about the mixture, they're not 100% accurate.

So with a dyno readout you can change the fuelling, by pi$$ing about with the EFI by whatever means, remapping it, or by an "output modifier" like the power commander. Or you can do proper stuff like change the jets in the carbs.

Of course this can also be done by the rse dyno. Far cheaper, but does tend to be frustrating and a little long winded.

And as for standing corrected, do not try to out-pedant the pedant. :-P

[pencil shavings]

Kinda.

A dyno does nothing to change a bike at all. It's simply a tool which measures the (in the case of a dynojet dyno) acceleration of a big f##koff steel drum. This gives you a "torque curve" and from that a "power curve" with respect to engine rpm (when done properly, some others give you it with respect to mph, which isn't much use)

Most dynos are linked to an exhaust gas analyzer, which can tell you something about the mixture, they're not 100% accurate.

So with a dyno readout you can change the fuelling, by pi$$ing about with the EFI by whatever means, remapping it, or by an "output modifier" like the power commander. Or you can do proper stuff like change the jets in the carbs.

Of course this can also be done by the rse dyno. Far cheaper, but does tend to be frustrating and a little long winded.

And as for standing corrected, do not try to out-pedant the pedant. :-P


Im not sure what you mean about pedant??

Im not confused, I read an artical I think in PB called project midrange where they.... (goes and looks up artical)

ok, you are right, they played with not only a PCIII, but also throttle values, cams and shims. they say 'the most economic way to boost the zx10rs midrange is to go down the route of modified cams.' would that be true for the SV too to get rid of the flat spot?

[yorkie_chris]

Im not confused, I read an artical I think in PB called project midrange where they.... (goes and looks up artical)

ok, you are right, they played with not only a PCIII, but also throttle values, cams and shims. they say 'the most economic way to boost the zx10rs midrange is to go down the route of modified cams.' would that be true for the SV too to get rid of the flat spot?

It depends what the flat spot is caused by, which on the pointy I'm not too sure about. It could be a dip in various resonances in the airbox and exhaust where you're getting the interference exactly wrong (180 degrees out of phase). Or it could be a spot on the timing curve where there's a few less degrees of advance or a few milliseconds less of injector duration for whatever reason.

The curvy suffers from similar flat spot at around 5500rpm. A set of hot cams cures it*. This says to me that it's a resonance thing, as you'd expect hotter cams to give less midrange. But of course the pointy could be totally different.

Remember old cam catalogues? You could get "towing" "stock" "fast road" and "rally"? All just different grinds with different durations to make the engine work better at different rpm regions. You can't have it all. (unless you've got VTEC, but I'd rather have <30mpg than a f**kin h*nda any day)

Im not sure what you mean about pedant??

It's OK, you'll get it later :-P



* That's not to say it hasn't just moved the slight flat spot to a point in the revs where I haven't noticed it

[Bibio]

the only flat spot i find on mine is when i hit the limiter and i'm doing that a bit to often.

mabee i cant tell/feel a flat spot but i was used to 2strokers..

[pencil shavings]

the only flat spot i find on mine is when i hit the limiter and i'm doing that a bit to often.

mabee i cant tell/feel a flat spot but i was used to 2strokers..

It definatly isnt a 2 stroke flat spot!! (not that I have vast experiance with them, but they always seemed to be just before the power band.. nothing then everything!!)

[Red Herring]

You don't need a PC3 to use a quickshifter.

True, but once you've got one it's a whole lot cheaper.

[ThEGr33k]

There an article in I THINK performance bikes (one of the ones that not wrapped so can be read in WHsmiths ;))this month.

They tested

Standard systems
End can
End can with PCIII
Full systems
Full systems with PCIII

It really is worth a read.

In summary in nearly all cases the standard can gave best performance (you would expect it to really seen as they spent millions developing it)

The only setup to give more power and better top end was the FULL system with PCIII but in every case it had a detrimental effect elsewhere in the power delivery.

Aye but you got to remember that the end can on an R6 doesn't contain the bottle neck of the exhaust, that's the collector underneath! You need a full system on a modern R6 to see any real improvements from the Zorst. ;)

An example of a decent bike, (see dyno in my sig to see if you like, top run is No baffles, chipped to suit Zorsts, middle baffled, chipped to suit Zorsts, bottom Baffles in stock chip) mine I dyno'd with and without baffles and that made a difference, and the baffles in mine just reduce one of the twin port (blue flame exhausts) by 5mm radius. Stock exhausts (wish I had a comparison) would have probably run at about 105-110 on that dyno at a guess.

You can't map for midrange.
You either get the carburetion right, or you don't.

It could be that with less backpressure from a proper exhaust that the cams are too hot, or not hot enough. Or the stock filter is too restrictive. Or any number of things...

There are many things... Though here is an interesting thing for you chris, the stock Ape 60* twin filter provides more power than any "high flow" filters... To do with letting less air out of the air box and the traveling wave reflected back pushes more air in the engine.

I did not know that was the term, I stand corrected :smt003

However, I was under the impression that the power curve could be smoothed with a Dyno to get rid of the dips. Am I mistaken?

Depends on how well the bike is fueled stock. Id say with a slip on and the snorkel out you'll be fine with A/F mix and you'll gain little from a PC3, and a smoother engine worth £350 (in setup)? Naaa.

You'll only really want a PC3 on a SV650 if you are going for Full exhaust system or Cam work... Or obviously any other big motor work.



Who needs a quick shifter, clutchless shifts are easy enough tbh. :smt077

[yorkie_chris]

There are many things... Though here is an interesting thing for you chris, the stock Ape 60* twin filter provides more power than any "high flow" filters... To do with letting less air out of the air box and the traveling wave reflected back pushes more air in the engine.


Who needs a quick shifter, clutchless shifts are easy enough tbh. :smt077

Yes that's harmonic tuning, same reason why a lot of modern sportsbikes are going for variable length bellmouths inside the airbox. It's a massive "it depends" with all tuning! You could make a set of camshafts so hot that they'd make less power than standard because they wouldn't be getting enough gas velocity until the engine was above its rev limiter. All a balancing act.
The most important thing to do is remove any manufacturers restrictions put in place because of those chocolate stirring w4nkers in Brussels. Catalytic convertors and noise limits do nothing any good.

As for quickshifters, nobody needs one. Out of curiosity have you ever tried one? There is something seriously intoxicating about letting some serious bhp ripple the tarmac and all you need to do is push up a bit when that big red light comes on... and just watch the world go in reverse...

[ThEGr33k]

As for quickshifters, nobody needs one. Out of curiosity have you ever tried one? There is something seriously intoxicating about letting some serious bhp ripple the tarmac and all you need to do is push up a bit when that big red light comes on... and just watch the world go in reverse...


No... I wasnt saying you dont need one... I was more wondering if they are worth much, I mean clutchless shifting isnt that bad is it? ha ha

Big red light I take it is the shift light? Mine blinks at me lol.

[pencil shavings]

No... I wasnt saying you dont need one... I was more wondering if they are worth much, I mean clutchless shifting isnt that bad is it? ha ha

Big red light I take it is the shift light? Mine blinks at me lol.

Mine still just says FI :(

cheers for the info guys :cool:

[Geoffrey]

True, but once you've got one it's a whole lot cheaper.
no not really, a quick shifter can be fitted to any bike whether carbed or fuel injected. if it fits to a carbed bike with no problems then the necessity of having a power commander on a fuel injected bike is not required, only dyno jets quick shifter is designed to solely work with a power commander.

as for the need for one, i can not see the point on the road, how mature of a rider would you be if you are trying to save a tenth of a second on your commute to work.

[dizzyblonde]

Apparently it's a 'characteristic' of the 1000 motor due to emissions regs. It's not jerky or snatchy, just feels gravelly/extra vibey below 2.5-3k revs. A full system could well fix it :)


Paul.....amongst all the posts that goes over my head. . .
If its any help, the Raptor is a bit like this under 3k or at least it used to be, even after the M4s.( I seem to remember him saying when he bought it, it was a bit 'different' in and around town) When he gets up I'll ask him about it, and see what he suggests. I'll either post here or text you, if he has anything useful to say:)

BTW . . I'm pretty sure hes got a PC thingy somewhere(in fact I've seen it), amongst all the parts, thats how useful it is! It ain't on the bike :-)

[ThEGr33k]

Mine still just says FI :(



When? :confused:

[pencil shavings]

When? :confused:

FYI http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=125789