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Following on from the delectable Messies wonderful work on organising the AR venue, and even possibly sorting out us having a fire, there is some prep that needs doing before hand.
AFAIK (and this will need confirming) the venue have insisted that in order to have a fire we need to remove the turf where we are having the fire, ensure the fire is contained, and replace the turf afterwards (IE the venue must look as pristine afterwards as it did before we got there!)
Now, I have no experience whatsoever at turfing. I've been told I'm a sod before, and I'm sure that's somehow connected, but I don't think it entirely qualifies me. Has anyone got the know how to guide me and a team of like minded (IE Half-witted) labourers*, and can I have some volunteers to do some of the work? I'm thinking if we go down there the weekend before the AR, remove the turf and fetch firewood then that's most of the hard work done and we can concentrate on getting drunk and letting me have sex at, on, or in all of you lovely people.
(edit)*Please only vote yes to lead if you have experience. The last thing I want is for us to hideously mess up their lawn because we thought "How hard could it be?"...
I can help if you travel down in the week as I'll be in London, else sod off I'm in Portsmouth and will be busy.
Spiderman
18-05-09, 03:49 PM
I know sod all too about turfs or are they turves? See, told you i know nothing.
But i do know a good bit of firewood when i see it so count me in for the finding/lifting/carrying bit ;)
LOL. You beat me to it Bear!
Maybe some of the Essex peeps have knowledge of wood?
SoulKiss
18-05-09, 03:56 PM
Well as I have done this before I vote for me :)
We will need, shovels to dig up the turf, if we can put the cut turf onto a tarp then that would be good.
Large stones/bricks
Needed to line the bottom of the fire-pit - must not be porous as any water in them will expand with the heat into steam and cause them to explode (not as cool as it sounds)
Firewood.
Pallets make good firewood but burn too quickly, if we can get real logs/sleepers/telegraph poles then so much the better although we will also need those cut up.
We may get away with using a bag of those logs you can buy on a garage forecourt.
I would suggest a 4ftx4ftx1ft pit, with the fire restricted to about a 2ftx2ft area in the middle using a second ring of stones/bricks for extra safety and to conserve fuel.
No petrol or other accellerants to be allowed near the fire.
Jester666
18-05-09, 03:59 PM
No petrol or other accellerants to be allowed near the fire.
Where's the fun in that? :(
SoulKiss
18-05-09, 04:04 PM
Where's the fun in that? :(
Because if we have gone to all the hassle of getting clearance from the Landlord, I would hate to have him worry about the ambulances turning up.
Oh another thing we want it some sand-buckets - preferably metal filled with, well sand, prefereably slightly damp
Oh another thing we want it some sand-buckets - preferably metal filled with, well sand, prefereably slightly damp
Knowing the AR, everything will be damp from the rain.
Pallets make good firewood but burn too quickly, if we can get real logs/sleepers/telegraph poles then so much the better although we will also need those cut up.
Local News that week... town phone lines down... all the telegraph poles vanish.
No petrol, ex-soho mods with 666 in their name or other accellerants to be allowed near the fire.
Fixed for you. (Hi Paul!)
Righto SK, you seem like our expert, I bow to your superior knowledge. Now we need a team of work monkeys to assist with the grunting.
Spiderman
18-05-09, 04:18 PM
We will need, shovels to dig up the turf, if we can put the cut turf onto a tarp then that would be good.
Good post SK, perhaps Messie can ask the site if they have these avilable for us to use and return before we start thinking about lugging big things about on bikes.
I would suggest a 4ftx4ftx1ft pit, with the fire restricted to about a 2ftx2ft area in the middle using a second ring of stones/bricks for extra safety and to conserve fuel.
No petrol or other accellerants to be allowed near the fire.
I'd suggest something a little bigger tbh, we want this to be a central/focal point for all and sundry to be able to gather round so needs a fair sized diameter i think for all to enjoy the warmth of the fire.
Sally has GUARANTEEED it wont rain but thats not saying it wont be chilly at night and i think a 2x2ft fire is only gonna accomodate a handfull of peeps comfortably. And we dont want people jostling for space and falling in the fire.
maybe a 6ft diameter circle for the fire to alow for it to be as big as it need to be and if we only need to use 4ft diam of it then great. But circular surely must be the way to go :)
Knowing the AR, everything will be damp from the rain.
Local News that week... town phone lines down... all the telegraph poles vanish.
IT'S GONNA BE SUNNY DAMN YOU! And more importantly, stay on topic or I will have you modded from orbit.
It's the only way to be sure...
Jinxy43
18-05-09, 04:23 PM
I will gladly offer my services as a Half-witted labourer,
But please note I am dangerous if allowed to think for myself
SoulKiss
18-05-09, 04:32 PM
Good post SK, perhaps Messie can ask the site if they have these avilable for us to use and return before we start thinking about lugging big things about on bikes.
I'd suggest something a little bigger tbh, we want this to be a central/focal point for all and sundry to be able to gather round so needs a fair sized diameter i think for all to enjoy the warmth of the fire.
Sally has GUARANTEEED it wont rain but thats not saying it wont be chilly at night and i think a 2x2ft fire is only gonna accomodate a handfull of peeps comfortably. And we dont want people jostling for space and falling in the fire.
maybe a 6ft diameter circle for the fire to alow for it to be as big as it need to be and if we only need to use 4ft diam of it then great. But circular surely must be the way to go :)
Happy to go with a bigger size, just that its more work, even a fire in a half a petrol drum is plenty to get about 40 people around (and as most of the heat from them goes straight up.....)
Biggest issue is going to be getting the tools there - but I am sure some kind person with a car/van can sort it :)
I didnt see if there was suitable fire-pit lining materials on site, Messie, I am assuming I wont be treading on toes if I give Jim a ring with a few questions?
Landlord said we'd need to bring our own shovels. I've got one! And I've got some plastic sheeting to put it on.
Why is Twisted Firestarter in my head now?
We don't want it to large as you want something that is easy to put out if things get out of hand.
SoulKiss
18-05-09, 04:42 PM
Compromise - 4' by 8' trench - will mean an oval crowd rather than a circle, but should be able to keep the amount of fire down to about a 2'x6' line rather than a "big pile o fire"
Compromise - 4' by 8' trench - will mean an oval crowd rather than a circle, but should be able to keep the amount of fire down to about a 2'x6' line rather than a "big pile o fire"
But a big pile o fire is good...
May I proscribe 6-8 pallets stacked on top of each other and set fire to from the nice wigwam shaped fire built around it.
The scouts never asked me to build the camp fire again after that. Mind you, no one could sit on the benches around the camp fire, and the big logs we built it on were still on glowing the next morning.
Rule number 1 of fire club is don't let me build the fire.
Dan
The pyro.
Sounds like a good plan, just a couple of thoughts... What are we going to burn? And can I suggest this is placed quite some distance away from the tents...
SoulKiss
18-05-09, 05:59 PM
Sounds like a good plan, just a couple of thoughts... What are we going to burn? And can I suggest this is placed quite some distance away from the tents...
Look up - I have already made suggestions :)
Spiderman
18-05-09, 06:16 PM
Happy to go with a bigger size, just that its more work, even a fire in a half a petrol drum is plenty to get about 40 people around (and as most of the heat from them goes straight up.....)
I have a half barrel BBQ and tbh you can get about 6 - 8 standing peeps round that comfortably. 40 SK? How big is your barrel? lol
I think we can judge this better when on site, its all pretty accedemic right now.
As for the heat, i was watching a survival programme and a certain Mr Ray Mears suggests that a "parralel logs" fire is the best to produce heat and keep the flames low.
I'm like Dan above, if it was my fire it would be exactly as he bescribes... thats what i used to build on beaches when i lived abroad, whether it was for a full on full moon party or just me and my girl to chill by. Either way, there was LOTS of heat and LOTS of flame.
not a good idea near tents, as has been said.
mr.anderson
18-05-09, 11:01 PM
OK, so lets do the maths on this one:
Assmuning that the average person standing facing the fire is 1&1/2 ft wide plus an extra 6 inches to allow for the beer in one hand stance = 2ft space per person.
Allowing for a comfortable standing distance from the fire of 1 metre (3 or so ft):
6ft round fire: (6 + 3 +3) * 3.14 = 37.68ft. Based on the assumptions above, this allows for 15 people holding a beer in one hand and 3 holding a beer in each hand.
4ft by 8ft rectangle: 2 * ((4 + 3) + (8 +3)) = 36ft. Based on the assumptions above, this allows for 18 people holing 1 beer in one hand.
Now, in terms of effort:
The 6ft circle will require a moving of 28.64 square feet of earth 1ft deep.
The trench will require the moving of 32 square feet of earth 1ft deep.
In terms of beers in hand per square foot of earth to be moved:
Circle = 73.32% efficiency
Trench = 56.25% efficiency
1ft deep sounds like overkill just to protect the turf :???:
But you seem to have things in hand.
SoulKiss
19-05-09, 06:35 AM
1ft deep sounds like overkill just to protect the turf :???:
But you seem to have things in hand.
It IS overkill, it probably wont go quite that deep, will depend somewhat on the weather, and when I first put that figure in I hadn't thought of the leave a foot's gap from the edge of the cut turf to the fire.
I also don't get why you need a liner under the fire before the soil? although the rocks round the edge are a good idea to contain it.
If the idea is to go down a week before to dig the pit I would worry about the condition of the turf, and the turf under the turf when you dig out the turf and lay it on top of other turf ;)
SoulKiss
19-05-09, 10:40 AM
I also don't get why you need a liner under the fire before the soil? although the rocks round the edge are a good idea to contain it.
If the idea is to go down a week before to dig the pit I would worry about the condition of the turf, and the turf under the turf when you dig out the turf and lay it on top of other turf ;)
The liner is to put the removed turf on well away from the fire - can load it up next to the pit then drag it away...
Spiderman
19-05-09, 11:56 AM
OK, so lets do the maths on this one:
Assmuning that the average person standing facing the fire is 1&1/2 ft wide plus an extra 6 inches to allow for the beer in one hand stance = 2ft space per person.
Allowing for a comfortable standing distance from the fire of 1 metre (3 or so ft):
6ft round fire: (6 + 3 +3) * 3.14 = 37.68ft. Based on the assumptions above, this allows for 15 people holding a beer in one hand and 3 holding a beer in each hand.
4ft by 8ft rectangle: 2 * ((4 + 3) + (8 +3)) = 36ft. Based on the assumptions above, this allows for 18 people holing 1 beer in one hand.
Now, in terms of effort:
The 6ft circle will require a moving of 28.64 square feet of earth 1ft deep.
The trench will require the moving of 32 square feet of earth 1ft deep.
In terms of beers in hand per square foot of earth to be moved:
Circle = 73.32% efficiency
Trench = 56.25% efficiency
That is one quality post, Sir! And it proves my circle superior too, yay!
SoulKiss
19-05-09, 12:12 PM
That is one quality post, Sir! And it proves my circle superior too, yay!
Cant fault the maths at all - however, the concentration of fire is also a key element.
In the round configuration, the density of the fire is greater, creating a hotter fire, consuming more fuel.
The trench fire creates a gathering point that is more efficient, and not really needed as a heat source.
2xtelegraph poles lying sideby side with a starter fire made on top that is allowed to ignite said poles will burn for ages with little attention or drama.
TBH its all hypothetical anyway, I'll rock up on the day and sort it out :)
hmmm a circle has the shortest perimeter for its area. So a stretched out design of equal area to the circle proposed, should be the most efficient :geek:
The org debate team strikes again... take something simple and debate it for 3 pages and end up back where we started.
The org debate team strikes again... take something simple and debate it for 3 pages and end up back where we started.
And why not?
Spiderman
19-05-09, 03:24 PM
A good debate sometimes saves a lot of wasted time. In this case digging time. I'd rather have an idea of what we're digging before we start othewise we'll waste a lot of time and also ruin the nice field and we dont wanna be doing that, do we.
EDIT: Grinch, change your settings so it shows 40 posts per page like mine does and we're still only on page 1 ;)
SoulKiss
19-05-09, 03:27 PM
A good debate sometimes saves a lot of wasted time. In this case digging time. I'd rather have an idea of what we're digging before we start othewise we'll waste a lot of time and also ruin the nice field and we dont wanna be doing that, do we.
EDIT: Grinch, change your settings so it shows 40 posts per page like mine does and we're still only on page 1 ;)
I've been voted in, so I will make the call :)
Cooks/Broth comes to mind :)
And why not?
Cus it gives me something to moan about.
Spiderman
19-05-09, 04:00 PM
I've been voted in, so I will make the call :)
Cooks/Broth comes to mind :)
So right there mate. Dont worry i'll be the first to hand over my shovel weilding and log carrying duties to someone more qualified, eager, closer, prettier, hell anyone who wants it really. Was just putting my hand up and if i dont get picked i aint gonna cry about it ;)
Why does the spot for the fire need to be a pit? Is it possible the fire will slide off somewhere if the grass is wet and it's on a slope?
Why does the spot for the fire need to be a pit? Is it possible the fire will slide off somewhere if the grass is wet and it's on a slope?
The fire will have a tendency to damage the grass, which would upset the owners :)
I am quite aware of the danger of fire mixed with grass Stu, but why do we need to dig up turf along with a foot of dirt?
keith_d
20-05-09, 06:08 AM
It sounds like Soulkiss has it all in hand so I'll just comment that removing turves 2" thick is back breaking work, so be sure you get plenty of volunteers and a couple of nice sharp spades.
Best plan, peg out the area, split the volunteers into two teams and put a bucket of beer in the middle. Team that gets to the middle first gets the beer. (Bear is not allowed to be a one man team!)
Keith.
Oh Lordy nothings straighforward here is it ;)
What's wrong with "Yes I'll help and I've got a shovel" or
"I can get some burning stuff to you"
I am quite aware of the danger of fire mixed with grass Stu, but why do we need to dig up turf along with a foot of dirt?
I don't think it's so much the danger aspect (dry grass in England during the summer? :smt036) as simply the owners wanting the place to be pristine afterwards as per the OP. +1 on agreeing that a foot deep of turf is probably an over simplified estimation in this thread that will soon get reduced in practise :)
Oh Lordy nothings straighforward here is it ;)
What's wrong with "Yes I'll help and I've got a shovel" or
"I can get some burning stuff to you"
because most of us are stuck at work/home it's over 2 months away so we can't actually do anything right now, but getting excited, so might as well debate it. You never know, a good suggestion just might be forthcoming one day ;)
Stu I'm not that simple. When I said the danger of fire and grass I wasn't talking about it setting ablaze to the field but the state of the ground after.
Will we be able to sweep the ashes under the turf? Do you think they'd notice? Isn't ash a good fertilizer?
metalmonkey
23-05-09, 12:03 PM
I'm happy to help out I have built some very big fire in the past. What SK is very a good idea, last thing you want is someone being hurt. I worked with a guy a few years back, he decided to put petrol on a lit fire. He lit up like a firework and got some serious burns, I wouldn't want that to happen to any of my friends.
Let me know nearer the time if you need a hand, but I can't bring anything with me on a bike.
Some interesting further information for you Firestarters!
was there again last week end and noticed a large, ash filled metal rimmed conatiner. This had obviously been used for fire before. Had a chat with Jim and he said if we cleared it we could use it for our fire!
Looks good guys - must be at least 1.5 metres by 1.5 metres square and about 14 inches deep (weird combination of imperial and metric there)
So no digging of pit needed nor feverish calculations of appropriate size.
Just need wood now!
chris8886
09-06-09, 06:36 PM
Some interesting further information for you Firestarters!
was there again last week end and noticed a large, ash filled metal rimmed conatiner. This had obviously been used for fire before. Had a chat with Jim and he said if we cleared it we could use it for our fire!
Looks good guys - must be at least 1.5 metres by 1.5 metres square and about 14 inches deep (weird combination of imperial and metric there)
So no digging of pit needed nor feverish calculations of appropriate size.
Just need wood now!
now this sounds good to meeeeeeeeeee :smt077:smt096:smt074 *much evil laughter*
don't want to dampen enthusiasm but it might still scorch the grass underneath it.
No grass underneath it. Has been a fire container for some time. So no need to protect what's underneath
then by all means enthuse away!
Should the org seriously be trusted with fire coupled with alcohol? :drunken: :stupid:
:)
SoulKiss
09-06-09, 09:53 PM
Should the org seriously be trusted with fire coupled with alcohol? :drunken: :stupid:
:)
Its the point where we build a ring of fire and Hovis attempts to jump Boris over the fire pit and through it thats when it gets silly..............
It has been all good with alcohol and fire....... those around to see it enjoyed the show.....
although I think I singed Northys jacket but shhhhhhhhhh donīt tell him ;)
Spiderman
11-06-09, 10:30 PM
I didnt see Annas show live but the you tube vid was pretty friggin cool 8)
ArtyLady
11-06-09, 10:45 PM
....
Just need wood now!
He hasn't forgotten - just needs to speak to the guy to ask him :cool:
No grass underneath it. Has been a fire container for some time. So no need to protect what's underneath
Have I mentioned that I FRICKING LOVE YOU!
Have I mentioned that I FRICKING LOVE YOU!
And I love you too hunny....
but we still need to empty it out and build up again....
still a bit of work involved, sorry.
Do you still love me?
chris8886
15-06-09, 06:08 PM
And I love you too hunny....
but we still need to empty it out and build up again....
still a bit of work involved, sorry.
Do you still love me?
i have no problem with this as long as i get to play with fire :smt084 :D
If it's full of ash it'll take no time. We'd just need to take a few bin bags and some old ice cream tubs or similar! Or we could smear **** with marmite and roll him in the ash.
454697819
24-06-09, 08:27 AM
only just found this thread,
I will bting the shovel and spade I have and lend a hand, I will (if there is space from carrying other stuff) endevour to bring some seasoned wood, it may be scrap wood but it will save us shelling out for a few bags of the finest crap they sell on forcourts.
In addition we will needs somewhere to dispose of the ash... do they have a field or flower bed we can lob it onto?
Cheers
Alex
Thanks for that offer Mr Numbers - I'm sure we'll take you up on it. Yes there are plenty of places there to scatter the ashes (so to speak!)
Bear was organising something for the week end before AR09 to sort this out but he seems to have gone missing. Do Bear's hibernate in the summer (I know what they do in the woods)
Sorry for my absence! I'll be travelling down earlyish on Friday (got the day off) and will be looking for volunteers on the day (I understand David will be there...) to help empty out the tray. If it comes down to it, will one person with Bear-like strength be able to do it in a day?
Oh 'ello! Where you been? Friday early OK, the pit isn't that big.
Bear - you got any wood though ;)
SoulKiss
25-06-09, 03:52 PM
Oh 'ello! Where you been? Friday early OK, the pit isn't that big.
Bear - you got any wood though ;)
Cool - I should be there - if I am not already there, I'll come down with Bear.
Spiderman
25-06-09, 05:14 PM
Oh 'ello! Where you been? Friday early OK, the pit isn't that big.
Bear - you got any wood though ;)
From what i hear he's ALWAYS got wood :)
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