View Full Version : Employment law - giving notice
Need some advice on this. My fiance has got a new job and they want her to start on the 1st June otherwise she will have to wait a few months for another intake.
Thing is they only told her this last week so she put her notice in on Friday. She has a contract which says she must work 4 weeks. The boss said to her in the leaving meeting that he didnt want her to work the full lot and would let her go early (although she didnt mention the 1st June). The guy is a grade A ******** and if he knew, he would make her work the 4 weeks just to spite her.
She needs to start that job on the 1st but is there anyway she can just leave? She's waiting on him providing the reference which he has received notice of. She has about 6 days leave owed which I know she wouldnt get if she just upped and left.
They can't make her go to work, but if she needs a reference then she needs to come to an arrangement.
Kilted Ginger
20-05-09, 05:14 PM
Between her 4 week notice and 6 days leave she is less than a week short to leave at the end of may. Worst case scenario she could self certify. I'd be surprised if her old work would sue for breach of contract, which is about all they could do if she left a week early. Does she actually need the reference for her new job or does she actually have a new contract already? That might be the only sticky point.
Miss Alpinestarhero
20-05-09, 05:17 PM
How imperitive is it that she starts on the 1st June? How long is a "few months?" Maybe the new employers could be a bit more flexible if your misus really and truly cannot leave in time to start the new job?
If the boss said he would let her go early, would that be paid or unpaid? Would be good if she could get that in writing somehow?
Im not sure where you would stand legally..
sorry I cant be of more help
Well he initially said he would pay her 4 wks, and let her go after a week but thats all changed this week (as has his mood) so now that the ref has come in, he's stalling on it (and she needs it prior to starting) and now has said he wants her to work til at least the end of next week and come next week he'll decide whether he wants her after that.
The new employer has said that it needs to be the 1st of June as they have intakes and she needs to get on the training course or else she will be behind. Her current boss has said to her that she works for ******* and she cannot start a new job until her contract with him is up. I am hoping that he gives her the reference by the end of this week and then she could just not turn in for the week after next. I have doubts though as to when he will provide the ref. I think he'll just hang until the 4th week then give her one, which by that time she'll be out of a job and having to wait for the next intake which could be August
A fella at my work place got a new job and just left. The company couldn't really do much. Left us all dangling somewhat. He worked about half his notice period then just disappeared.
Miss Alpinestarhero
21-05-09, 08:07 AM
Well he initially said he would pay her 4 wks, and let her go after a week but thats all changed this week (as has his mood) so now that the ref has come in, he's stalling on it (and she needs it prior to starting) and now has said he wants her to work til at least the end of next week and come next week he'll decide whether he wants her after that.
The new employer has said that it needs to be the 1st of June as they have intakes and she needs to get on the training course or else she will be behind. Her current boss has said to her that she works for ******* and she cannot start a new job until her contract with him is up. I am hoping that he gives her the reference by the end of this week and then she could just not turn in for the week after next. I have doubts though as to when he will provide the ref. I think he'll just hang until the 4th week then give her one, which by that time she'll be out of a job and having to wait for the next intake which could be August
God what a *beep*! Perhaps your missus can contact the new employers and let them know her boss is being difficult so that they know the reference might come in late. Can she get a reference from anyone else which can be a temporary reference until the boss gets his act together and does it? Im guessing there is no-one higher than this boss?
TBH I think I would take the boss aside and have some very firm words with him. His behaviour is just childish.
blue curvy jester
21-05-09, 08:21 AM
Now shes resigned ( and as long as its in her contract) he can be as much of an **** as possible.
it may have been better for her to have held off resigining until 6 weeks before the next intake and hoping he told her to F**k off early in which case he would have had to pay up
If he'd told her to FO when th refference request came in she would have had a unfair dismissal case
Dappa D
21-05-09, 08:32 AM
if it were me or my mrs, id speak to new employer, explain about the ref issue and whats going on, if she has already been offered the job "subject to references" then she is pretty well in and done.....
its been a long time since i worked in recruitment but im pretty sure (can someone confirm/deny?) that employers are not allowed by law to give a bad reference that is like a personal attact....they can refuse to give a reference...but not give a bad one...the new employer would have to ask themselves why your partner had not been sacked (if he did give a bad reference) if she was that bad....
I strongly wouldnt recommend your partner puts down her old boss to her new boss but it might be worth mentioning that he can be awkward when he wants to be.....
although it could happen...the chances of taking your partner for breach of contract is highly unlikely IMO.
Mr Speirs
21-05-09, 08:35 AM
The notice period on a contract is there to ensure you get your benefits in full and the company doesn't get left in the lurch. You can break it however you will give up any holiday oweing or time oweing.
The company as far as I am aware cannot sue you for breaking the contract and the only 'punishment' for lack of a better word is the fact you will lose any holiday or time oweing. As long as you don't owe the company hours there shouldn't be an issue.
Mr Speirs
21-05-09, 08:36 AM
Dappa D is correct, companies aren't allowed to give bad references, also they wouldn't want as as it can become a potential lawsuit against the company.
Miss Alpinestarhero
21-05-09, 08:43 AM
but im pretty sure (can someone confirm/deny?) that employers are not allowed by law to give a bad reference
I heard that too. But again, I dont know if it is 100% true
Leopard_lily
21-05-09, 09:14 AM
How long has your partner been working for her current employer???
Dappa D is correct, companies aren't allowed to give bad references, also they wouldn't want as as it can become a potential lawsuit against the company.
Yes they can give bad references - as long as they can prove what they say. Anyone giving a reference shoud reflect carefully on what they are saying and how it might sound if they were sued on it. It's much better to give objectively verifiable details only - such as name, role, date started, date left, and reson for leaving. That's what I do if any of my team leave. I don't make subjective comments of any sort - inclusing my perception of suitability for the new role.
Employers don't have to give references and some don't as a matter of policy, the important thing is to be able to justify what you do say.
On the wider point there are some facts needed which aren't here, like for example are there any restrictive covenants in the contract.
If not I think the answer is that an employer can't compel an employee to work, they can't get an injunction to force you to work for them, but there would be an action in damages. The damages would be the cost of hiring someone else to do the work. I think Rob your GF needs to think about how likely this is. As ophic said on here, in reality there isn't a lot they can do about it.
Ed
She's been there over 2 years. Its only a little company but its a financial services firm. Childish isnt the word for it, he's been like this for as long as she's been there and ive told her I dont know how many times to get out of there. The sooner the better for me.
irnbrumad
21-05-09, 04:05 PM
Is there not a general HR dept who can provide a generic reference stating like number of sick days in past 12 months etc?
These are accepted by new employers, which would perhaps free up the issue of her boss being so horrid.
timwilky
21-05-09, 04:17 PM
My company instructions are that we are not to give references. These can only be done by the HR dept. Who will give a standard statement :-
Fred smith was employed between x and y and held the position of xxxx.
We will not give any other information.
irnbrumad
21-05-09, 04:18 PM
My company instructions are that we are not to give references. These can only be done by the HR dept. Who will give a standard statement :-
Fred smith was employed between x and y and held the position of xxxx.
We will not give any other information.
^^ Yeh that's the kind I mean. That would maybe get round the issue of the boss!! My work do this too... all references are referred to HR who deal with it.
^^ Yeh that's the kind I mean. That would maybe get round the issue of the boss!! My work do this too... all references are referred to HR who deal with it.
But small companies don't have HR departments so line managers usually deal, and the usual problem is that they haven't a clue what to say.
irnbrumad
21-05-09, 04:32 PM
There is usually someone in a company, regardless of size, who is HR trained etc, besides one manager - that's all my suggestion was. Sorry :(
I think your GF needs to speak to her new boss about the reference. i.e. can she start work on 1/6/09 without one?
I think she should be prepared to give up her 6 days holiday in order to start on 1/6/09. (how it will work in practice is get paid a full months salary at the end of May as usual then she doesn't turn up at her old place in June so will have to fight for any holiday pay)
Depending on what the new company says about how vital a reference is, I would be upfront with the old boss & say "look I'm leaving on the 29th, lets make sure everything is ready by then"
Quiff Wichard
21-05-09, 11:04 PM
My company instructions are that we are not to give references. These can only be done by the HR dept. Who will give a standard statement :-
Fred smith was employed between x and y and held the position of xxxx.
We will not give any other information.
cept when you leave eh Tim.. .. whoooo I would liek to read that one..
Good luck to her Rob and I can see you are really caring and concerned- hope it works out for you both.
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